Let's discuss new guys (from June 2016)

[ParniValjak]

I don't mean to sound like a douche, but haven't you had enough with lottery picks the last 11 years? What in the world makes you think we are all of a sudden going to know how to draft properly? Haven't the last 11 years been proof enough that we (as an organization) generally draft poorly?

We have had Tyreke Evans, Demarcus Cousins, and IT as our only worthwhile draft picks (2 of which are MVP caliber type players, 1 of which we traded away for pennies on the dollar) in the last decade, which is absolutely horrendous. WCS looks to be on the right track, but he still has some growing pains to go through. We have barely picked rotation players most of the time. Jimmer, JT (even though he started, he wasn't even what you call a solid player), Thomas Robinson, McLemore, Casspi (who is alright in limited spurts, but was on the verge of being out of the league before we picked him up), and Ray McCallum, are all riding the bench hard or out of the league altogether.

We have missed out on so many good to great players the last 10 years with the draft, I have absolutely no faith in our ability to draft properly, at least until proven otherwise. I am perfectly fine with losing the draft pick this year if we make the playoffs. That's something I can live with because the draft pick would most likely end up in disappointment. A playoff berth, however, could potentially attract some bigger free agents and we can finally infuse some real talent into this roster.

Look I think for most of those decisions there have been other factors affecting it. I do take some comfort in our last draft in that we took the long term view and not necessarily biggest bang for our buck straight away. I am not going to comment on picks prior to Vlade's arrival. Petrie was always considered as a pretty good drafter but in later years some of the picks were heavily influences by ownership's direction.

Vlade drafted WCS because he wanted a player who was ready to play straight away plus he is a good fit next to Cousins in terms of defense. WCS has been developing nicely for us. Hell some of the moves offensively he has pulled off recently, you would not have seen last year. The little post move, the little jumper he sprinkles in occasionally, the little Dirk fadeaway and the nice pass from the elbow to a cutting McLemore for an easy dunk. You would not have seen a lot of that last year. It was mostly Rondo setting him up and him working on dump offs and putbacks. If WCS can keep developing that jumper enough to keep the defenses honest, he becomes a great player to have next to DMC going forward. While WCS has been slow out of the blocks this season, his last dozen games have shown that he is on the right path and can be a valuable player for us going forward. Let's also not forget that Vlade was working off a pretty limited base here given that he took over later in the season and PDA bolted with a lot of the IP on the draftees. Vlade's exposure to the draft class would have been pretty limited.

Last draft we looked at the long term. Drafted Papagiannis as a Kosta replacement down the track but with better offensive touch. Skal is a long term high upside stretch 4 and Malachi is someone who we have drafted with the long term SG position in mind. Bogdanovic is also someone who solidifies that position. All of those picks were based on the long term view in mind.

If we do happen to have pick on this draft (i.e. not make the play offs and keep the top 10 pick), I am confident that we will get a very good young prospect for the long run. At the very worst a pick is a trade asset that may allow us to pick up a star player from a team that might be looking to cut ties (e.g. Phoenix drafting Ball or a young star PG which might mean that Bledsoe is all of a sudden available for a package that has a top 10 draft pick attached to it).

Don't get me wrong, I still want to see us make the play offs and turn the corner but if the pick it there, I am not looking at it as something that we will screw up.

 

[twslam07]

I don't mean to sound like a douche, but haven't you had enough with lottery picks the last 11 years? What in the world makes you think we are all of a sudden going to know how to draft properly? Haven't the last 11 years been proof enough that we (as an organization) generally draft poorly?

We have had Tyreke Evans, Demarcus Cousins, and IT as our only worthwhile draft picks (2 of which are MVP caliber type players, 1 of which we traded away for pennies on the dollar) in the last decade, which is absolutely horrendous. WCS looks to be on the right track, but he still has some growing pains to go through. We have barely picked rotation players most of the time. Jimmer, JT (even though he started, he wasn't even what you call a solid player), Thomas Robinson, McLemore, Casspi (who is alright in limited spurts, but was on the verge of being out of the league before we picked him up), and Ray McCallum, are all riding the bench hard or out of the league altogether.

We have missed out on so many good to great players the last 10 years with the draft, I have absolutely no faith in our ability to draft properly, at least until proven otherwise. I am perfectly fine with losing the draft pick this year if we make the playoffs. That's something I can live with because the draft pick would most likely end up in disappointment. A playoff berth, however, could potentially attract some bigger free agents and we can finally infuse some real talent into this roster.

Frankly, this whole argument of "we suck at drafting so it doesn't matter if we lose the pick" is ridiculous. If you don't have confidence in your ability to draft, then trade it for an established player.

It's an asset, and a really good one at that. With the limited talent/potential this team has and knowing that we are not a good free agent location, we need all the help we can get.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Frankly, this whole argument of "we suck at drafting so it doesn't matter if we lose the pick" is ridiculous. If you don't have confidence in your ability to draft, then trade it for an established player.

It's an asset, and a really good one at that. With the limited talent/potential this team has and knowing that we are not a good free agent location, we need all the help we can get.

We can't even trade picks properly, thus the entire issue with losing vs going for a playoff spot.

 

[twslam07]

We can't even trade picks properly, thus the entire issue with losing vs going for a playoff spot.

First off, what makes you think our CURRENT FO (and I am emphasizing CURRENT for a reason) are poor drafters? They drafted Cauley-Stein, Papagiannis, Richardson, & Labissiere. The oldest of which is a sophomore this year. How can you say with a straight face that our CURRENT FO is not good at drafting? None of those players have been given enough time to see if they were actually good picks. Either you have some sort of magic ball to which you can see the future or you (personally) didn't like the picks. As much as you may be against some of the players that were drafted, nobody is 100%. And when I say nobody, I mean nobody. I've been upset at picks on draft day only to be completely wrong when the player had a chance to prove me wrong (Peja). It's pretty ridiculous to say this CURRENT FO is not good at drafting. If you are trying to use draft selections that were taken before our CURRENT FO arrived, then I can't help you. The old regime's drafting reputation does not carry over into the current one as much as you may think it does.

Secondly, what makes you think our CURRENT FO cannot trade picks properly? It's looking like the Philly trade is going to end up being 2015 cap space for an unprotected pick that would convey 4 years later. I will concede that Vlade overestimated his ability to sign FAs, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't be able to get value for a lottery pick in one of the most talented drafts in the last decade. He's not a 5 year old.

If you truly believe what you're saying, why do we even bother with our 1st round picks? Why don't we just tell the NBA "we're good, we'll skip the draft this year"? We're obviously wasting $4-$2 mil a year on a worthless rookie contract player. We might as well use that money on known players in free agency.

 

[Sac.Kings]

First off, what makes you think our CURRENT FO (and I am emphasizing CURRENT for a reason) are poor drafters? They drafted Cauley-Stein, Papagiannis, Richardson, & Labissiere. The oldest of which is a sophomore this year. How can you say with a straight face that our CURRENT FO is not good at drafting? None of those players have been given enough time to see if they were actually good picks. Either you have some sort of magic ball to which you can see the future or you (personally) didn't like the picks. As much as you may be against some of the players that were drafted, nobody is 100%. And when I say nobody, I mean nobody. I've been upset at picks on draft day only to be completely wrong when the player had a chance to prove me wrong (Peja). It's pretty ridiculous to say this CURRENT FO is not good at drafting. If you are trying to use draft selections that were taken before our CURRENT FO arrived, then I can't help you. The old regime's drafting reputation does not carry over into the current one as much as you may think it does.

Secondly, what makes you think our CURRENT FO cannot trade picks properly? It's looking like the Philly trade is going to end up being 2015 cap space for an unprotected pick that would convey 4 years later. I will concede that Vlade overestimated his ability to sign FAs, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't be able to get value for a lottery pick in one of the most talented drafts in the last decade. He's not a 5 year old.

If you truly believe what you're saying, why do we even bother with our 1st round picks? Why don't we just tell the NBA "we're good, we'll skip the draft this year"? We're obviously wasting $4-$2 mil a year on a worthless rookie contract player. We might as well use that money on known players in free agency.

Thank you bolding the word current multiple times, I don't think I could have read it otherwise.

Nowhere did I say the CURRENT office cannot draft or drafts poorly. What I said was we have been in the damn lottery for 10 straight years (10!!) and I am absolutely sick of it. I have nothing against any of the players drafted in the last couple of years and most of them were not my choices. I figure that the Kings work them out and scout them better than I ever could. I also never mentioned giving up our picks completely for all eternity. I am talking about this draft, this summer, because it's a critical one. But you go ahead and roll your eyes if it makes you sleep better at night.

My entire point was that this draft pick would not significantly help us next season, as most rookies take time to develop, even if talented. Only the Lebron/Durant/Carmelo type rookies have significant impacts that really help the team, and I don't think we would get that type of player. You could argue that you can trade the pick, and sure that makes sense if the draft pick won't help you, but that means you missed the playoffs. The bottom line of my argument is that I value making the playoffs this year over the draft pick (even if we were to trade it) because we could finally bring some honor back to this organization, and maybe, just maybe, get some worthwhile free agents.

The debate boils down to this:

1. Lose and keep our pick and then either a) draft a player or b) trade the pick
2. Make the playoffs and use this success as a selling point for key free agents while also making the playoffs for the first time in a decade.

Cousins will be 27 at the start of next season and does not have time to wait for a rookie to grow up, and that can take years. As long as Cousins is here, we should be in a win-now mode because it doesn't make sense to do anything else. I am all in for making the playoffs, and for those that argue "make the playoffs for what? To lose in the 1st round?" I say damn right! It's about time we stop being an embarrassment and show some pride. Make it to the playoffs and use that as a pitch to free agents and see who bites.

 

[twslam07]

Nowhere did I say the CURRENT office cannot draft or drafts poorly.

Never said you did, but it's completely illogical to use prior actions from a different FO as an indicator of what to do now. Makes no sense.

What I said was we have been in the damn lottery for 10 straight years (10!!) and I am absolutely sick of it.

Trying to force a successful team by using the fact that we've been in the lottery for 10 straight years in not a recipe of success. It would be an emotional knee jerk reaction. A quality a lot of people here on this forum tend to have.

My entire point was that this draft pick would not significantly help us next season, as most rookies take time to develop, even if talented.

Why do they need to significantly help us next year? What's the rush? Is it that same emotional reason of us being in the lottery 10 straight seasons or is there actually a solid reason behind it? If Cousins wasn't so gosh darn loyal to this team, I could see an argument, but they've already talked about an extension.

And what makes you think we'd keep the player? If the FO is so gosh darn set on competing IMMEDIATELY, trade the pick away for a very good player who can help us now.

You could argue that you can trade the pick, and sure that makes sense if the draft pick won't help you, but that means you missed the playoffs.

Yeah...and your point...?

The goal should not be about making the playoffs at all costs. The plan should be to choose a path that can help this team improve in a way that gives us a shot at a top team in the West. Being impatient is one of the worst things a franchise can do, and it's probably why I get so much push back from other posters here (sick of losing) because being a fan is being emotional. I'm sick of the losing too. I root for the team to win every game I watch, but that doesn't prevent me from seeing the bigger picture and what would be best for this team long term.

The bottom line of my argument is that I value making the playoffs this year over the draft pick (even if we were to trade it) because we could finally bring some honor back to this organization, and maybe, just maybe, get some worthwhile free agents.

Honor? The "honor" will come soon enough. Why do we need the "honor" this year? Why can't we set ourselves up better for the future and get that "honor" & then some next season, the season after that, etc.

The likelihood is that we don't have enough talent/potential to one day be a top team in the West. Looking at our FA history, it's foolish to rely on this strategy to improve the team enough to become a top tier team let alone a mid-level playoff team. Draft picks & trades is what we'll have to focus on if we want a shot at really building something around Cousins.

The debate boils down to this:

1. Lose and keep our pick and then either a) draft a player or b) trade the pick
2. Make the playoffs and use this success as a selling point for key free agents while also making the playoffs for the first time in a decade.

Yes, and for the reasons stated above. It's far more wise to build through drafting/trades.

I think people are also putting way too much in this "we're a playoff team so signing FAs is going to be much easier." First of all, you can easily argue that it takes more than a season for a teams reputation to change whether it is the uncertainty in the FO, the job security of a new head coach, the concern of players enjoying being on a team with Cousins, etc. Second of all, we won't even have an attractive record as a playoff team. We'd be a sub .500 team lucking into a playoff spot during a down year. Do we honestly think free agents aren't aware of the W-L column. Personally, I wouldn't be impressed with a 36-37 win team getting the 8th seed.

Cousins will be 27 at the start of next season and does not have time to wait for a rookie to grow up, and that can take years. As long as Cousins is here, we should be in a win-now mode because it doesn't make sense to do anything else.

False. As long as Cousins is here, we should be doing everything we can to put a winner around him. If we lose this pick, we're giving up a very good opportunity at either drafting a player with star potential or having enough assets to trade for another star. We're essentially saying that we're okay with consistently getting the 6th-8th seed. It's not realistic to expect any big time FAs to come through that door, so the focus should be on collecting as many assets as possible and either developing them or trading them for game changers.

I am all in for making the playoffs, and for those that argue "make the playoffs for what? To lose in the 1st round?" I say damn right! It's about time we stop being an embarrassment and show some pride. Make it to the playoffs and use that as a pitch to free agents and see who bites.

This is the kind of emotional thinking that could handicap a team. You can't let what other people say about you disrupt the best course of action.

And what happens when/if no free agents sign here next season? What then? We keep the same team & hope our youth bumps us up to a 40 win team? It's certainly possible, but it's about being a contender one day. And if we want to be a contender one day, this current team that lacks talent is going to need as much as they can get.

 

[206Fan]

I know this is about Kings' rookies, but I'd like to point how bad the other rookies have been..

1. injured
2. Ingram: 8.1pts, 36.7% FG, 30.6% 3PT
3. Brown: 5.7pts 42.7% FG, 30.4% 3PT
4. Bender: 3.2pts 37.1% FG, 32.1% 3PT
5. Dunn: 3.6pts 36.5% FG, 26.5% 3PT
6. Hield: 8.6pts, 39.1% FG, 36.8% 3PT
7. Murray: 8.8pts 39.4% FG, 32.4% 3PT
8. Chriss: 7.5pts 42.1% FG, 30.1% 3PT
9. Poeltl: 2.3pts 50.9% FG
10. Maker: 3.5pts 50% FG, 48.4% 3PT
11. Sabonis: 6.1pts 40.4% fg, 31.7% 3PT
12. Prince: 3.4pts 37.2% FG, 27.8% 3PT
13. Papagiannis: 0pts 0FG
14. Valentine: 3.5pts 31.9%, 30.1% 3PT

This has been a horrific lottery class. It's terrible...probably THE worst we've seen so far... makes me not feel bad about our rookies this year. These players have a lot of years to get better, but they've been horrible this year.