Let's discuss new guys (from June 2016)
- Thread starter Double-K
- Start date
Maybe I missunderstood something, but I think Joerger already realized, that we aren't going anywhere soon with this team. Hearing him talk about the Memphis situation 9 years ago, how to lay down a foundation is more important as what happens on the court and winning 20+ games doesn't sound like the coaching staff is aiming for the PO. In that case the moves make sense. Sign veterans to short contracts to teach the young guys. Aquire as many young upside players as possible. Set yourself up for a full scale rebuild, after 1 season in the new arena.
young compared to his Memphis old coots, but otherwise that's probably just the impression of an NBA coach coaching a bunch of dumb SL kids.
The actual NBA roster itself is not that young, pending trades I suppose:
Barnes 36
Tolliver 31
Afflalo 30
Temple 30
Gay 29
Casspi 28
Collison 28
Koufos 27
Cousins 25
McLemore 23
Cauley-Stein 22
as our top 11 guys (avg. age for Top 11 = 28.1)
maybe throw Malachi and Big Papa on as #12 and #13 for youth, but the rotation guys are a middle aged vet team. So I think he had to be talking about the SL team.
The actual NBA roster itself is not that young, pending trades I suppose:
Barnes 36
Tolliver 31
Afflalo 30
Temple 30
Gay 29
Casspi 28
Collison 28
Koufos 27
Cousins 25
McLemore 23
Cauley-Stein 22
as our top 11 guys (avg. age for Top 11 = 28.1)
maybe throw Malachi and Big Papa on as #12 and #13 for youth, but the rotation guys are a middle aged vet team. So I think he had to be talking about the SL team.
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I think it will take some time to unteach some of the bad habits learnt over the last 18 months. It will take time for players to learn and execute what Joerger and his staff are about to teach.
As a few others have already mentioned, line up of Collison-McLemore-Gay-JT-Cousins was statistically the best line up in the league defensively. That team had no bench. Practically it was Casspi and no one else. The team as currently constructed is deeper than that team. It still has some weaknesses but it is a better, deeper team that the squad Mike Malone took into his last season in Sacramento.
I expect there to be more changes to the roster before the traning camp (a PG is a must) but a line up of Collison-Afflalo-Gay-WCS-Cousins should be at least close to the one mentioned earlier. On top of that we still have Temple, Barnes, Casspi, Koufos, McLemore and Tolliver to come off the bench as well as a number of young kids with upside developing from the end of the bench.
From the meaningful contributors this team really only lost Rondo and to lesser extent Acy and Curry but replaced them with dependable vets capable of playing good defense and spreading the floor.
The scoring will go down, the defense will pick up and how well we go next season will depend on the how quickly we adapt to the new style, how quickly yhe team gels and what happens with the rest of the western conference. Will OKC fall out of finals without KD and Ibaka? Will Houston improve or continue the dowards spiral? Are Blazers one year wonders? Will NO bounce back fully healthy and how does that look under Gentry's style? Are Utah about to be the biggest improvers in the West? Will SA be as dominant as they have been? Are Dallas going to be better or worse than this year?
So many questions but as the roster currently stands we can say its more defensive than at any time in the last 3 years. Our main scorers are still here for the time being. We have solid depth at every position bar PG and possibly SG but given that Afflalo, McLemore, Temple and Barnes can play some SG. Quite a few players can defend multiple positions.
Personally, I would be comfortable heading into next season with this roster provided we can get a good back up PG (maybe Cole) for the exception money on a one year deal.
As a few others have already mentioned, line up of Collison-McLemore-Gay-JT-Cousins was statistically the best line up in the league defensively. That team had no bench. Practically it was Casspi and no one else. The team as currently constructed is deeper than that team. It still has some weaknesses but it is a better, deeper team that the squad Mike Malone took into his last season in Sacramento.
I expect there to be more changes to the roster before the traning camp (a PG is a must) but a line up of Collison-Afflalo-Gay-WCS-Cousins should be at least close to the one mentioned earlier. On top of that we still have Temple, Barnes, Casspi, Koufos, McLemore and Tolliver to come off the bench as well as a number of young kids with upside developing from the end of the bench.
From the meaningful contributors this team really only lost Rondo and to lesser extent Acy and Curry but replaced them with dependable vets capable of playing good defense and spreading the floor.
The scoring will go down, the defense will pick up and how well we go next season will depend on the how quickly we adapt to the new style, how quickly yhe team gels and what happens with the rest of the western conference. Will OKC fall out of finals without KD and Ibaka? Will Houston improve or continue the dowards spiral? Are Blazers one year wonders? Will NO bounce back fully healthy and how does that look under Gentry's style? Are Utah about to be the biggest improvers in the West? Will SA be as dominant as they have been? Are Dallas going to be better or worse than this year?
So many questions but as the roster currently stands we can say its more defensive than at any time in the last 3 years. Our main scorers are still here for the time being. We have solid depth at every position bar PG and possibly SG but given that Afflalo, McLemore, Temple and Barnes can play some SG. Quite a few players can defend multiple positions.
Personally, I would be comfortable heading into next season with this roster provided we can get a good back up PG (maybe Cole) for the exception money on a one year deal.
I don't mean to sound like a douche, but haven't you had enough with lottery picks the last 11 years? What in the world makes you think we are all of a sudden going to know how to draft properly? Haven't the last 11 years been proof enough that we (as an organization) generally draft poorly?
We have had Tyreke Evans, Demarcus Cousins, and IT as our only worthwhile draft picks (2 of which are MVP caliber type players, 1 of which we traded away for pennies on the dollar) in the last decade, which is absolutely horrendous. WCS looks to be on the right track, but he still has some growing pains to go through. We have barely picked rotation players most of the time. Jimmer, JT (even though he started, he wasn't even what you call a solid player), Thomas Robinson, McLemore, Casspi (who is alright in limited spurts, but was on the verge of being out of the league before we picked him up), and Ray McCallum, are all riding the bench hard or out of the league altogether.
We have missed out on so many good to great players the last 10 years with the draft, I have absolutely no faith in our ability to draft properly, at least until proven otherwise. I am perfectly fine with losing the draft pick this year if we make the playoffs. That's something I can live with because the draft pick would most likely end up in disappointment. A playoff berth, however, could potentially attract some bigger free agents and we can finally infuse some real talent into this roster.
We have had Tyreke Evans, Demarcus Cousins, and IT as our only worthwhile draft picks (2 of which are MVP caliber type players, 1 of which we traded away for pennies on the dollar) in the last decade, which is absolutely horrendous. WCS looks to be on the right track, but he still has some growing pains to go through. We have barely picked rotation players most of the time. Jimmer, JT (even though he started, he wasn't even what you call a solid player), Thomas Robinson, McLemore, Casspi (who is alright in limited spurts, but was on the verge of being out of the league before we picked him up), and Ray McCallum, are all riding the bench hard or out of the league altogether.
We have missed out on so many good to great players the last 10 years with the draft, I have absolutely no faith in our ability to draft properly, at least until proven otherwise. I am perfectly fine with losing the draft pick this year if we make the playoffs. That's something I can live with because the draft pick would most likely end up in disappointment. A playoff berth, however, could potentially attract some bigger free agents and we can finally infuse some real talent into this roster.
K
Good point --Now that you mention that and I think about it, I am not sure I can go through another draft. The past two years I about broke my television during the draft. At least if we make the playoffs it will be exciting. The Ben McLemore draft was a tough one, too many guys at the same level, but the other picks there were obvious better players on the Board and we made boneheaded moves.
This draft is being considered elite. As long as you have a pick in the top 10, then you're drafting a guaranteed starter right off the bat. It's insanely good. I don't see any way how the Kings could screw it up (thank god). This is what the players could be in their rookie year...:
1. Fultz: Think D'Angelo Russell with athletcism, but not as vocal
2. Ball: Think of a 6'6 Ty Lawson from Denver
3. Smith Jr: Young Isaiah Thomas but 6'2, and athletic
4. Jackson: Richman's Jutise Winslow.. or Jimmy Butler in his 2nd year
5. Tatum: Jeff Green
6. Monk: 6'3 version of Rodney Hood
7. Fox: a better version of Elf Payton with higher bball IQ
8. Isaac: More polished defensive version of Ingram, but not as good of a shooter
9. Marrkanen: a better version of Channing Frye
10. Ntilikina: Dante Exum from rookie year
There's no way that the Kings would be able to screw up their draft pick if they got a top 10 selection.. I refuse to believe it.. it's like choosing between Lillard, Conley, Bledsoe, Teague and Schoreder. Of course, there's a few guys who are better than others, and even if you pick the least talented player... there's no way you could lose. absolutely 0.
1. Fultz: Think D'Angelo Russell with athletcism, but not as vocal
2. Ball: Think of a 6'6 Ty Lawson from Denver
3. Smith Jr: Young Isaiah Thomas but 6'2, and athletic
4. Jackson: Richman's Jutise Winslow.. or Jimmy Butler in his 2nd year
5. Tatum: Jeff Green
6. Monk: 6'3 version of Rodney Hood
7. Fox: a better version of Elf Payton with higher bball IQ
8. Isaac: More polished defensive version of Ingram, but not as good of a shooter
9. Marrkanen: a better version of Channing Frye
10. Ntilikina: Dante Exum from rookie year
There's no way that the Kings would be able to screw up their draft pick if they got a top 10 selection.. I refuse to believe it.. it's like choosing between Lillard, Conley, Bledsoe, Teague and Schoreder. Of course, there's a few guys who are better than others, and even if you pick the least talented player... there's no way you could lose. absolutely 0.
Here's something I'm really worried about when it comes to Bogdanovic, and it isn't his fault at all. The Kings have an established offensive system under Joerger, and the only player who gets to play freely is DeMarcus. He also has an extremely high usage. Joerger barely even lets Collison go loose. He forces him to play within our offense. My concern is that Joerger will force Bogdanovic into an off-ball player and just run him off of screens. I just don't think this will best benefit Bogdanovic's game. While he is a player who can definitely play off-ball, I think he's most effective when he does have the ball in his hands.
Question, will Joerger adjust his offense and make exception to a new player?
Question, will Joerger adjust his offense and make exception to a new player?
Agreed, with the Ben draft, there really wasn't much to pick from. Plus, he made sense. We needed a 2 guard that could shoot, and that was his calling card (supposedly anyway, we all know his story now 4 years later).
The draft has been such a disappointment for us as a franchise, I really don't want to rely on it in order to get better. It usually ends badly for us. The playoffs would change the game for us in terms of free agency. We would finally have something to point at and say "Look, we made the playoffs last year with a bad roster because we fought like hell, imagine what we could do if you come here and join us"? All of a sudden, things ain't looking so bad. New shiny arena, superstar is already here, playoffs..... the Kings could paint a nice picture for free agents. I am not saying that we would all of a sudden be a hot destination spot, but those lower tier stars that spurned us years ago would maybe look at us for once. If Rudy sticks around, he can be our 3rd star, but what we really need is that 2nd star that can create for himself and maybe even others when Cousins sits or is in foul trouble. With WCS developing nicely, we would have a solid roster next season:
PG: I pick this position as our need for a 2nd star
SG: Bogdanovic/Malachi/Afflalo
SF: Rudy
PF: WCS
C: Cousins
I realize it's not so cut and dry, but if you get a really solid/good PG in that starting lineup, it definitely would not be a bad starting five. WCS would be solid and entering his 3rd year, Cousins would be his usual beastly self, Rudy would still be a large part of the offense, but maybe even trade bait as it would be his last year on his contract, and a young stud in Bogdanovic. I would rather go this route than pray for a miracle in the draft process.
The draft has been such a disappointment for us as a franchise, I really don't want to rely on it in order to get better. It usually ends badly for us. The playoffs would change the game for us in terms of free agency. We would finally have something to point at and say "Look, we made the playoffs last year with a bad roster because we fought like hell, imagine what we could do if you come here and join us"? All of a sudden, things ain't looking so bad. New shiny arena, superstar is already here, playoffs..... the Kings could paint a nice picture for free agents. I am not saying that we would all of a sudden be a hot destination spot, but those lower tier stars that spurned us years ago would maybe look at us for once. If Rudy sticks around, he can be our 3rd star, but what we really need is that 2nd star that can create for himself and maybe even others when Cousins sits or is in foul trouble. With WCS developing nicely, we would have a solid roster next season:
PG: I pick this position as our need for a 2nd star
SG: Bogdanovic/Malachi/Afflalo
SF: Rudy
PF: WCS
C: Cousins
I realize it's not so cut and dry, but if you get a really solid/good PG in that starting lineup, it definitely would not be a bad starting five. WCS would be solid and entering his 3rd year, Cousins would be his usual beastly self, Rudy would still be a large part of the offense, but maybe even trade bait as it would be his last year on his contract, and a young stud in Bogdanovic. I would rather go this route than pray for a miracle in the draft process.
Didn't Petrie suggest to the new regime to go take a look at Giannis during the Mcdonalds Big Mclemore draft? They even wanted to move up the draft to pick a player that was coming off the bench. Scotty Pollard former Jayhawk even said he wasn't a good pick before he was picked. Can't fix the fixation on "I think on our team we need shooting" for 2 seasons back to back. So far Vlade looks like he drafted solid players considering the position they were selected.
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I get it, I do, but is there a guarantee we would end up with a quality young PG? I haven't really looked at any of the draft prospects (I reserve that for spring time/summer time as our season ends so early I have to have other basketball related things to do!) so I am not really knowledgeable about who is entering the draft.
It's not a bad scenario and it's one I would welcome, but going into the playoffs would be huge for this franchise. It's either one or the other I guess.
It's not a bad scenario and it's one I would welcome, but going into the playoffs would be huge for this franchise. It's either one or the other I guess.
The Jimmer draft and ultimately letting IT walk hurts the most. The magoofs & GP missed on K. Leonard and K. Thompson ultimately handing both those 2 teams championships. Then that same group turns around drafts T. Robinson right in front of D. Lillard who we worked out and in order miss hard
.5 Kings - T. Robinson
.6 Blazers - D. Lillard
.7 Warriors - H. Barnes (Greene was 2nd rounder)
.9 Pistons - A. Drummond
Have I mentioned handing teams championships yet?
2013 Gerbil and Vivek come in and draft Mclemore in a bad draft class. (Still a bunch of misses though)
2014 Nik Rocks
2015 Draft WCS then Vlade ponies up Nik, Landry, JT and AT LEAST our 2019 pick and a few 2nd rounder swaps for cap space
.
Signs Rondo, KK, Curry and Marco.
2016 Vlade Trades his pick for a handful of prospects
Trades Marco for a 1st rounder.
Signs Tolliver, Barnes, and Temple .
Imo Vlade needs to hit on those youngsters to come out of this looking okay.
.5 Kings - T. Robinson
.6 Blazers - D. Lillard
.7 Warriors - H. Barnes (Greene was 2nd rounder)
.9 Pistons - A. Drummond
Have I mentioned handing teams championships yet?
2013 Gerbil and Vivek come in and draft Mclemore in a bad draft class. (Still a bunch of misses though)
2014 Nik Rocks
2015 Draft WCS then Vlade ponies up Nik, Landry, JT and AT LEAST our 2019 pick and a few 2nd rounder swaps for cap space
.Signs Rondo, KK, Curry and Marco.
2016 Vlade Trades his pick for a handful of prospects
Trades Marco for a 1st rounder.
Signs Tolliver, Barnes, and Temple .
Imo Vlade needs to hit on those youngsters to come out of this looking okay.
SGs are not and have not been creative players' in Joerger's system, going back to Memphis.
Then again when your SGs have been Tony Allen, Courtney Lee, Ben McLemore and Arron Afflalo, the creative potential is rather pathetic anyway.
A creative SG is just what the doctor ordered, presuming nothing too ball dominant, and Temple, while low talented, has certainly been able to create a bit when he is at SG. The lack of such form the other players may have as much to do with their own limitations as anything else. Rem, Joerger has sometimes gone to the 2-PG sets with Lawson/Collison too. If you can do that, you can do a creative SG. Just has to be a guy willing and able to pass out of it.
Then again when your SGs have been Tony Allen, Courtney Lee, Ben McLemore and Arron Afflalo, the creative potential is rather pathetic anyway.
A creative SG is just what the doctor ordered, presuming nothing too ball dominant, and Temple, while low talented, has certainly been able to create a bit when he is at SG. The lack of such form the other players may have as much to do with their own limitations as anything else. Rem, Joerger has sometimes gone to the 2-PG sets with Lawson/Collison too. If you can do that, you can do a creative SG. Just has to be a guy willing and able to pass out of it.
I really hope Joerger is willing to change it for Bogdanovic. He clearly has a lot of potential, but limiting him to be an off-ball SG like Lee, McLemore, or Afflalo would hurt each the team more than help. Even looking at Afflalo this year, he's clearly a guy who excels at creating his own shot. He's an ISO player, but coach has completely turned him into an off-ball player. Joerger has called for a few Afflalo ISOs, but they weren't very often at all.
With Temple, Joerger usually just puts him in positions to feed Cousins or other guys the ball. We never really see Temple call for a screen action. Even with Collison... we hardly ever seen screen actions.... I think we see it a lot more with Lawson, but even then, it's not a whole lot. I really like his offense because he emphasis ball movement and no ball-sticking. However, I really hope he would start making exceptions soon. I said this in another thread. I think if the Kings want to win, they definitely have to let DC have more scoring opportunities.
It's going to be interesting to see how Joerger uses Bogdanovic next year. Maybe he comes off the bench and gets to play more freely?
With Temple, Joerger usually just puts him in positions to feed Cousins or other guys the ball. We never really see Temple call for a screen action. Even with Collison... we hardly ever seen screen actions.... I think we see it a lot more with Lawson, but even then, it's not a whole lot. I really like his offense because he emphasis ball movement and no ball-sticking. However, I really hope he would start making exceptions soon. I said this in another thread. I think if the Kings want to win, they definitely have to let DC have more scoring opportunities.
It's going to be interesting to see how Joerger uses Bogdanovic next year. Maybe he comes off the bench and gets to play more freely?
There's a difference though between an iso player like Rudy or Afflalo, where the game and ball stops so you can let them work 1 on 1, and everybody else might as well read a book, and the sort of dynamic play we were seeing from Bogdan in that vid.
A huge key will be if Bogdan can create for others as well as himself when he has the ball. If he can do that, then it flows seamlessly. Then you can trust him with the ball/possessions.
A huge key will be if Bogdan can create for others as well as himself when he has the ball. If he can do that, then it flows seamlessly. Then you can trust him with the ball/possessions.
So what you are saying is we should tank? If you don't know how deep the draft is or if end up with the 10th pick and there are only 9 good picks, then it's all for naught. Doesn't sound too appealing and the only guarantee would be to tank hard which we know the organization won't do. I would rather swing for a trade (Carmelo if we can and if he agrees) and make the playoffs than to pray to end up in a good draft position.
I don't agree with people saying that Joerger doesn't give Collison free reign. He gives Lawson plenty of leeway to maneuver around the court and find open guys. Collison just simply doesn't have the skill to drive past guys on a regular basis. He only gets around guys when they're sleeping on defense or overplay for a steal. Lawson can get to where he wants about half the time because he's quicker, has better handles and has better moves.
Joerger isn't telling Collison to pass the ball around the perimeter for 15 seconds before just handing it off to Cousins to get out of the way. He's passing it around the perimeter because he doesn't have the skills to break the defense down.
Joerger isn't telling Collison to pass the ball around the perimeter for 15 seconds before just handing it off to Cousins to get out of the way. He's passing it around the perimeter because he doesn't have the skills to break the defense down.