Let's discuss new guys (from June 2016)
- Thread starter Double-K
- Start date
What are the stakes? Just a change of avatar? Who will remember three years from now? 
I wonder if there is anyone on this forum who thought Marco would have the kind of year he had. Speak up if you aren't surprised.
I wonder if there is anyone on this forum who thought Marco would have the kind of year he had. Speak up if you aren't surprised.
I think with Marco, most people thought it was a good signing with the assumption that he will be used correctly. He has always been a spot up, catch and shoot guy. Karl had him catching off picks and shooting before his feet are set all the time. Marco also tried to create his own shot at times and looked very incompetent doing it most of the time.
In context, it sounded to me like you were saying Rondo is partially "at fault" for the "mistake" of signing Belinelli last summer because he stipulated to Vlade that he would only sign if he got another shooter on the roster. I wasn't intentionally trying to misconstrue what you (or are anyone else) is saying. Read your comments again, the implication is there whether you intended it to be or not. Whether you were intending to pass partial fault on to Rondo or merely state that the Marco signing involved additional circumstances, I resented the implication. But the bigger point I was trying to make is that calling it a mistake in retrospect doesn't mean it was a mistake at the time it happened. If I decided to take the bus today to save on gas and the bus I'm on gets in an accident and I break my leg, it may have been a mistake in retrospect to take that bus, but there's no way I could have known that was going to happen when I made the decision in the first place (nor was it a likely outcome of that decision), so the initial decision wasn't a mistake.
There was absolutely nothing wrong with the Marco signing. Any GM in the league with a need for shooting would have been looking at Marco last year, and we got him on a very reasonable deal that after this summer appears almost cheap. Filled a need, cheaply, with an established veteran coming from the best program in the NBA...that was a rock solid move/recovery from Matthews running away. You don't get to come around in hindsight and say see! Told ya so! Unless somebody was actually saying Marco Belinelli was going to start shooting 30% from 3ptland in the first place.
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I was backing up on this out of politeness, but since you're so outraged... this is exactly what you wrote:
You didn't say "Marco Belinelli", you said "Good 'ol broken jaw". Translation -- you're glad to be rid of this guy. Did I interpret that incorrectly?
"I'm pretty sure Rondo had a say" -- Rondo is not the GM of the team. He may have told Vlade to sign a veteran shooter, but he didn't say "sign Marco Belinelli or I ain't coming".
Picking Belinelli instead of a different player and signing him for that number of years and dollar value is entirely a Vlade decision. And it wasn't a bad decision! We did need a veteran shooter. Our options were Ben McLemore and .... yeah, that's pretty much it at that time. So even if Rondo did request a shooter... is that a bad request? If Marco had performed as his career averages indicate, he would have been a valuable part of the rotation.
The context of the discussion is whether Vlade is a terrible GM or just a bad one. Okay, I kid. But it's something along those lines. And your comment is about Rondo's role in bringing Belinelli to the team. If I'm grossly misinterpreting your comments as you say, perhaps you could explain to me what you were trying to say in this context? I'm probably just dense, but having read it now 3 times, I see no other reading of your comments than the one I responded to in the first place.
Rondo being the scapegoat for everything that's wrong with this team is just my eye-rolling exaggeration of the types of comments I've been reading from other people on this board all year. So I was taking your comment (Rondo is partially responsible for Belinelli being on the team in the first place) and mixing it with comments not attributed to you and came up with Rondo is responsible for Marco being terrible too. That was obviously meant to be an absurd assertion -- I was not attributing that to you. A reductio ad absurdem if you will, aimed at the Rondo detractors.
Here's my take on Marco -- George Karl didn't do Rudy Gay any favors this season. He pushed Ben McLemore further into irrelevancy. He refused to play Seth Curry and Willie Cauley-Stein when we actually still had a chance of having a successful season. He tried to make Darren Collison into a poor man's Jamal Crawford. And he played Marco big minutes at SF in smallball lineups and force-fed him the ball like a go-to scorer when he'd previously been used primarily as a spot-up threat to space the floor and keep the defense honest. It's not unreasonable to expect better seasons from all of these players next year in a system that better matches their talents. But we're not in a position to take chances right now and we need defensive role-players on the wing in a bad way. These are the realities that made Marco expendable. Having played one (mostly terrible) season in Sacramento before getting shipped out for a draft pick is not going to endear him to Kings fans in career retrospectives, but I blame the circumstances more than the player. And I still think it was a prudent signing that most of us approved of, so it's unfair to Vlade to now hold it against him.
And lastly, just to clarify. I often make comments partially in jest. I'm sorry I offended you. The jab was meant at the crowd, not to you personally.
You didn't say "Marco Belinelli", you said "Good 'ol broken jaw". Translation -- you're glad to be rid of this guy. Did I interpret that incorrectly?
"I'm pretty sure Rondo had a say" -- Rondo is not the GM of the team. He may have told Vlade to sign a veteran shooter, but he didn't say "sign Marco Belinelli or I ain't coming".
Picking Belinelli instead of a different player and signing him for that number of years and dollar value is entirely a Vlade decision. And it wasn't a bad decision! We did need a veteran shooter. Our options were Ben McLemore and .... yeah, that's pretty much it at that time. So even if Rondo did request a shooter... is that a bad request? If Marco had performed as his career averages indicate, he would have been a valuable part of the rotation.
The context of the discussion is whether Vlade is a terrible GM or just a bad one. Okay, I kid. But it's something along those lines. And your comment is about Rondo's role in bringing Belinelli to the team. If I'm grossly misinterpreting your comments as you say, perhaps you could explain to me what you were trying to say in this context? I'm probably just dense, but having read it now 3 times, I see no other reading of your comments than the one I responded to in the first place.
Rondo being the scapegoat for everything that's wrong with this team is just my eye-rolling exaggeration of the types of comments I've been reading from other people on this board all year. So I was taking your comment (Rondo is partially responsible for Belinelli being on the team in the first place) and mixing it with comments not attributed to you and came up with Rondo is responsible for Marco being terrible too. That was obviously meant to be an absurd assertion -- I was not attributing that to you. A reductio ad absurdem if you will, aimed at the Rondo detractors.
Here's my take on Marco -- George Karl didn't do Rudy Gay any favors this season. He pushed Ben McLemore further into irrelevancy. He refused to play Seth Curry and Willie Cauley-Stein when we actually still had a chance of having a successful season. He tried to make Darren Collison into a poor man's Jamal Crawford. And he played Marco big minutes at SF in smallball lineups and force-fed him the ball like a go-to scorer when he'd previously been used primarily as a spot-up threat to space the floor and keep the defense honest. It's not unreasonable to expect better seasons from all of these players next year in a system that better matches their talents. But we're not in a position to take chances right now and we need defensive role-players on the wing in a bad way. These are the realities that made Marco expendable. Having played one (mostly terrible) season in Sacramento before getting shipped out for a draft pick is not going to endear him to Kings fans in career retrospectives, but I blame the circumstances more than the player. And I still think it was a prudent signing that most of us approved of, so it's unfair to Vlade to now hold it against him.
And lastly, just to clarify. I often make comments partially in jest. I'm sorry I offended you. The jab was meant at the crowd, not to you personally.
Marco was a great signing on paper. He was never a complete player but he was a much needed role player for the Kings. It did not work out due to Karlerism or he was just never comfortable with the rest of the guys. Plus, it turns out, excuse my BBC English, there is some as**hole in him too. Divac realized that and got rid of the contract and got a nice late 1st round pick. I think you cannot hope for more.
For me it was not that Marco had the worst shooting percentage for the season of his career--> http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/belinma01.html
But Karl kept rolling him out in the lineup and Marco kept on bricking those shots!!! CLANG!!! CLANG!!! CLANG!!!
But Karl kept rolling him out in the lineup and Marco kept on bricking those shots!!! CLANG!!! CLANG!!! CLANG!!!
I'll take that bet, as already established:
Mudiay will not be an All-Star in three years - the loser has to change their avatar to the winner's choice for the entire 2019 off-season.
You're on, KingsFan80!
See you in 3 years - but no guarantees I won't be lightheartedly mocking you when Mudiay does exceptionally bad in the meantime.
Mudiay will not be an All-Star in three years - the loser has to change their avatar to the winner's choice for the entire 2019 off-season.
You're on, KingsFan80!
See you in 3 years - but no guarantees I won't be lightheartedly mocking you when Mudiay does exceptionally bad in the meantime.
Wingspan, vertical, & obviously instincts are also very important factors. It's not just about standing reach. Many times players aren't blocking a shot with their hands straight up. A lot of the times they are blocking shots with their arms at different angles which puts more emphasis on wingspan than height.
Video with Papagiannis on the practice floor. Up to now he cant practice with the rest of the team. Has not yet been cleared by FIBA.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BHdBNrJBo_g/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BHdBNrJBo_g/
No, he's flat looked pretty good. Good enough its easy to imagine his game translating to the NBA. He's not revolutionary, but he's big, long, and surprisingly strong, and his moves consistently look like he borrowed them from the pros. Whatever his college career, this is a solid looking prospect right now.
100% Brick.
He was criticized for his poor shot selection.....But I saw his bombs and self creating possibilities, and how bold he is.
That translated to having the swagger to force his way onto the court, believing in himself, and probably a NBA ready reserve on day 1.
Thinking some of Ben now too.
His size is good, he is athletic. Basically the skeptics were worried about hero ball and tunnel vision.
I don't think we have anything to worry about with him with our roster construction, when he gets the ball it will probably be in a good shooting position, and boy he is always ready to shoot, in your face, on a dime, no hesitation, pretty, and all the confidence in the world.
Considering our coaching staff, they'll get him playing decent enough D.
He was criticized for his poor shot selection.....But I saw his bombs and self creating possibilities, and how bold he is.
That translated to having the swagger to force his way onto the court, believing in himself, and probably a NBA ready reserve on day 1.
Thinking some of Ben now too.
His size is good, he is athletic. Basically the skeptics were worried about hero ball and tunnel vision.
I don't think we have anything to worry about with him with our roster construction, when he gets the ball it will probably be in a good shooting position, and boy he is always ready to shoot, in your face, on a dime, no hesitation, pretty, and all the confidence in the world.
Considering our coaching staff, they'll get him playing decent enough D.