[Game] Kings @ Clippers - 10/31 - 7:30 PT, 10:30 ET

[jcwkings]

Observations form being at the game:

-Demarcus was limping in the first half, particularly after made baskets and running back in transition. Also was late coming out of locker during warmups, clearly was a game time decision, wanted to give it a go and they probably aired on the side of caution at halftime. No need to risk injury in a game we were always likely to fall short in.

-Rondo looked great. Not only was he able to attack CP3 and Jordan inside but his shooting was solid. Also he is a great communicator on the court, multiple times I saw him call out the Clippers play, the guy is a student of the game. I was worried after game one, but it seems he has made a conscious effort to be more agressive.

-WCS is/will be such a stud. The dude just gets deflections left and right, has great rotations and when he was switched on guards like CP3 and Crawford they wanted nothing to do with WCS. What other big man in the league can make that claim? Those are two of the best ball handling guards in the league who lick their chops when a big man is switched on to them.
I like that we are starting to see a rotation take form. It seems the protocol is for Rudy to be the first man benched for Omri, then Koufos and Collison for one of Rondo or Ben. Bellinelli then comes in, Rudy comes back in, WCS comes back in for Cuz and it eventually flows to a mix of Cuz, Gay, Koufos, Bellinelli, WCS, Collison, Rondo, Omri. Kind of crazy that we have 8 players who Karl trusts to be in key moments of the game. Ben seems to be the guy on a short leash, for good reason.

-God I hate the Clippers. Flopping, complaining about everything to the refs and getting the whistles because of it.

 

[Livinthedream]

He didn't sit because he was hurt.
There wasn't some family emergency.

He earned his spot on the bench because he sucked. Didn't show up. Didn't perform. Whatever you want to call it.

Pretty damn sure our game plan tonight did not involve pulling our STARTING 3rd year shooting guard after 10 miserable minutes.

DMC got hurt. We had to make adjustments. That's what the bench is for.

We shouldn't need to make adjustments for the rest of the game for a healthy 22 year old. We need guys who are ready to play.

I think your response is directed at me. Ben did not play great. But really no worse than Belli stastically speaking. And no, it is not a good sign that he was not put back into the game at some point, regardless of the Cousins injury. I don't share your anger at the situation because in 3 years we haven't found another SG to outplay him, but the basics of your post is correct.

 

[Kingston Jamaica]

Observations form being at the game:

-Demarcus was limping in the first half, particularly after made baskets and running back in transition. Also was late coming out of locker during warmups, clearly was a game time decision, wanted to give it a go and they probably aired on the side of caution at halftime. No need to risk injury in a game we were always likely to fall short in.

-Rondo looked great. Not only was he able to attack CP3 and Jordan inside but his shooting was solid. Also he is a great communicator on the court, multiple times I saw him call out the Clippers play, the guy is a student of the game. I was worried after game one, but it seems he has made a conscious effort to be more agressive.

-WCS is/will be such a stud. The dude just gets deflections left and right, has great rotations and when he was switched on guards like CP3 and Crawford they wanted nothing to do with WCS. What other big man in the league can make that claim? Those are two of the best ball handling guards in the league who lick their chops when a big man is switched on to them.
I like that we are starting to see a rotation take form. It seems the protocol is for Rudy to be the first man benched for Omri, then Koufos and Collison for one of Rondo or Ben. Bellinelli then comes in, Rudy comes back in, WCS comes back in for Cuz and it eventually flows to a mix of Cuz, Gay, Koufos, Bellinelli, WCS, Collison, Rondo, Omri. Kind of crazy that we have 8 players who Karl trusts to be in key moments of the game. Ben seems to be the guy on a short leash, for good reason.

-God I hate the Clippers. Flopping, complaining about everything to the refs and getting the whistles because of it.

I agree with you with all those points. Somehow the posters fail to see that the Clippers succeeded to add only one point in the second half to their first half lead. That was more because the Kings had to foul in the end in order to stop the clock. I think it is very encouraging that the Kings can play also without DMC, especially against a team like the Clippers riding on the refs mercy. Note: I did not mean that the Clippers are a bad team. However, they can't compete with the Kings without playing their starters for 35+ minutes. That's going to kill them in the playoffs. I hope we meet them there.

 

[Kingston Jamaica]

I think your response is directed at me. Ben did not play great. But really no worse than Belli stastically speaking. And no, it is not a good sign that he was not put back into the game at some point, regardless of the Cousins injury. I don't share your anger at the situation because in 3 years we haven't found another SG to outplay him, but the basics of your post is correct.

Correct. I'm seeing Rudy (and sometimes Omri) talk to Ben on the floor during games. He needs that kind of support. I'm confident that Ben has great potential. He has been playing with a problematic team so far. Now he is playing with with a good team and I think we should wait and see how that affects his game.

 

[celtics33]

I see nothing abnormal, it's LA, we always get shafted by the refs. We got this,

that's how basketball is officiated w hen playing the LA Microsoft's...

 

[celtics33]

I can confidently say this Clippers team will never win a championship.

oh... the new post-sterling rich uncle has received full assurance that they will, instead.. wait and see to tell.. the silversurfer thinks money before sports... and the Flippers will have their 15 minutes of fame.

 

[celtics33]

Kings late game execution sucks (except for Rondo), refs suck, Clips suck, McLemore sucks, Cuz injured sucks, trick or treat candy sucks, Napear sucks, add to list if you wish.

it's only the 3rd game in RS, PurpleHaze... and they implemented half roster.. they are getting there.

 

[celtics33]

We almost beat The Clippers at home without Cuz for half the game and people are complaining?

We're already as spoiled as circa 2008 Lakers fans.

Word!

 

[celtics33]

From George Karl - "You should never make the game close enough to put it in the refs hands."

way to go, George... you, Albert Einstein and not much more...

 

[KingMilz]

Collison and Rondo in the backcourt is dynamite and WCS is a freak stud defender.

I've said this before but we need to try get Evan Fournier over here for Ben if the Magic are willing to do it, Karl loved him and he's got a skillset which we need and does not go MIA like Ben.

I was very happy with the teams effort despite the loss, shame Cuz had to go out hopefully he's back healthy soon.

 

[mac]

Observations form being at the game:

-Demarcus was limping in the first half, particularly after made baskets and running back in transition. Also was late coming out of locker during warmups, clearly was a game time decision, wanted to give it a go and they probably aired on the side of caution at halftime. No need to risk injury in a game we were always likely to fall short in.

-Rondo looked great. Not only was he able to attack CP3 and Jordan inside but his shooting was solid. Also he is a great communicator on the court, multiple times I saw him call out the Clippers play, the guy is a student of the game. I was worried after game one, but it seems he has made a conscious effort to be more agressive.

-WCS is/will be such a stud. The dude just gets deflections left and right, has great rotations and when he was switched on guards like CP3 and Crawford they wanted nothing to do with WCS. What other big man in the league can make that claim? Those are two of the best ball handling guards in the league who lick their chops when a big man is switched on to them.
I like that we are starting to see a rotation take form. It seems the protocol is for Rudy to be the first man benched for Omri, then Koufos and Collison for one of Rondo or Ben. Bellinelli then comes in, Rudy comes back in, WCS comes back in for Cuz and it eventually flows to a mix of Cuz, Gay, Koufos, Bellinelli, WCS, Collison, Rondo, Omri. Kind of crazy that we have 8 players who Karl trusts to be in key moments of the game. Ben seems to be the guy on a short leash, for good reason.

-God I hate the Clippers. Flopping, complaining about everything to the refs and getting the whistles because of it.

Agreed. He read their plays several times but unfortunately there's not that much he could do rotating over to stop a charging Blake Griffin other than swipe at the ball. But he also directed guys to switch or get out on certain players which prevented the Clippers from getting wide open shots.

 

[twslam07]

It's a bummer starting off 1-2, but I can't be too upset with the losses. We've been right there with a shot to win in both games, and the Clippers are a very, very tough team. I was actually very surprised that we were able to hang in there even with Cousins out the entire 2nd half.

As long as we continue to give this type of effort every night, we will not only win the games we are supposed to win but pick-up some upsets along the way. Keep your heads held high and keep trucking!

 

[Dime Dropper]

Clippers always pull it out in close games against us, frustrating. Refs sucking in the last quarter and making some awful calls didn't help, but this was always going to be a likely loss.

 

[Livinthedream]

Correct. I'm seeing Rudy (and sometimes Omri) talk to Ben on the floor during games. He needs that kind of support. I'm confident that Ben has great potential. He has been playing with a problematic team so far. Now he is playing with with a good team and I think we should wait and see how that affects his game.

Agreed. It's the first year he's playing with solid vets. In the 10 min in the game he drove to the basket hard, like we all wanted. Hustled on D like we all wanted. We had a lead when he walked if the court. That's what we wanted. He is not the reason we lost or have been losing for years. Bringing in another mediocre guard to replace him will have no better result than playing Belli 30 minutes a game is having right now.

I by no means am saying he's playing great. I'm also not making excuses for what he isn't doing. But I think a lot of his impact on the game is being exaggerated in my opinion.

And with that, I'll leave the Ben Mac topic alone. Hopefully for good.

 

[Merdiesel]

I think your response is directed at me. Ben did not play great. But really no worse than Belli stastically speaking. And no, it is not a good sign that he was not put back into the game at some point, regardless of the Cousins injury. I don't share your anger at the situation because in 3 years we haven't found another SG to outplay him, but the basics of your post is correct.

This was directed more at slim and SD.

I know Belli didn't play a good 30 minutes. Truth of it is, he wasn't brought here to play 30 minutes a game.

Anger is probably the wrong word btw. More disappointed in the fact that I know there is a star inside of Ben some where. He is the only one holding him back. We have missed far too many times in the draft over the past 10 years. Now is a terrible time to have a guy like Ben with so much potential (hate that word) to be nervously passing up shots.

 

[Chubbs]

Good effort overall...as much as I love Boogie, it was nice to watch a game without all the complaining to the refs every single time down the floor

I think I speak for a large contingent here.

Get the **** over it. He's not changing. You can ***** and moan about his bitching and moaning if you'd like.

But it makes you just as much of an ass as Boogie can be.

 

[Chubbs]

Next game he should play less than that

Reddick having an unreal game is directly related to Ben only playing ten minutes.

Ben's speed and length was sorely missed as the Kings went small ball.

 

[Chubbs]

So he doesn't carry any of the blame?

Starting SG gets run off the court after 10 minutes leaving us scrambling to the bench the rest of the game. It's 4 on 5 on offense when he's out there.

That's on the coach. They went small due to cuz being out.

What's the problem? Right now, Ben is the STARTER and Beli is the backup. Why is it some huge catastrophe to swap them? My thought it that first unit can use more outside shooting and also Ben might be able to flourish a little better against the opponent's 2nd string.

The problem is belli isn't any better.

 

[Chubbs]

I am dead serious.....do you really think he is effective?

You think bellinelli is?

Seriously what game are you watching?

 

[Bricklayer]

Agreed. It's the first year he's playing with solid vets. In the 10 min in the game he drove to the basket hard, like we all wanted. Hustled on D like we all wanted. We had a lead when he walked if the court. That's what we wanted. He is not the reason we lost or have been losing for years. Bringing in another mediocre guard to replace him will have no better result than playing Belli 30 minutes a game is having right now.

I by no means am saying he's playing great. I'm also not making excuses for what he isn't doing. But I think a lot of his impact on the game is being exaggerated in my opinion.

And with that, I'll leave the Ben Mac topic alone. Hopefully for good.

He is absolutely one of the reasons we have been losing for years.

And he's the one guy in our rotation not carrying his weight, which begs the question how much longer he's going to be in the rotation. He could quickly turn into obsolete losing team personnel like Acy.

However he obviously wasn't why we lost the game last night, except in the negative sense -- he's giving us so little production that when we lose our top producer we have to bench Ben too because we can't afford to have non-productive guys on the court.

 

[Bricklayer]

The problem is belli isn't any better.

yes he is, by a rather large margin actually. And Belli is not even getting his shots to fall. But the confidence and feel for the game he has is just light years from where =Ben is at. When Belli is out there, even when he's not hitting his shots you can absolutely run a professional veteran organization where everybody is chipping in toward a win. Far too often when Ben is out there he plays like a little lost child amongst the veterans, trying to do the right thing, but not knowing, or having or inspiring confidence. Not making saavy plays, or being able to take care of himself. you would take Belli 100 times out of 100 as a teammate to try to win a game right now. And Belli's no star. he's just a smart saavy vet with passing acumen who knows where to go and how to play.

 

[Chubbs]

Brick your bias is so strong I can't take you seriously on this subject.

After pushing for James Anderson to start you completely lost any credibility whatsoever.

 

[sdballer]

yes he is, by a rather large margin actually. And Belli is not even getting his shots to fall. But the confidence and feel for the game he has is just light years from where =Ben is at. When Belli is out there, even when he's not hitting his shots you can absolutely run a professional veteran organization where everybody is chipping in toward a win. Far too often when Ben is out there he plays like a little lost child amongst the veterans, trying to do the right thing, but not knowing, or having or inspiring confidence. Not making saavy plays, or being able to take care of himself. you would take Belli 100 times out of 100 as a teammate to try to win a game right now. And Belli's no star. he's just a smart saavy vet with passing acumen who knows where to go and how to play.

You're equating better feel to better impact and on some levels you're right that he'd be far more comfortable which could help. But Marcos a worse defender and right now is shooting worse. Not sure I'm ready to shake the rotation up based on "feel for the game".

 

[Bricklayer]

Brick your bias is so strong I can't take you seriously on this subject.

After pushing for James Anderson to start you completely lost any credibility whatsoever.

No actually your bias is so strong you shouldn't take yourself seriously. Most of Ben's supporters are that way.

People are throwing themselves on the pyre in support of a player averaging 5ppg on .313 shooting coming off of a .273 shooting preseason.

Most of the bad bball analysis people do falls into the categories of either:
a) I had such hopes, dreams, fantasies of how good so and so would be that I am not wiling to let them go despite all evidence
b) I like so and so, and so I will defend them irrationally to the death

I happen to like Ben quite a bit. He seems like a real nice kid.

The difference is I don't actually give a damn about that basketball-wise. Its a slight positive in that I can envisage carrying him even as a worthless player just for lockerroom tranquility -- if you are going to have a developmental player, make him one everybody likes, not some Royce White or Larry Sanders freaky personality.

 

[sdballer]

No actually your bias is so strong you shouldn't take yourself seriously. Most of Ben's supporters are that way.

People are throwing themselves on the pyre in support of a player averaging 5ppg on .313 shooting coming off of a .273 shooting preseason.

Most of the bad bball analysis people do falls into the categories of either:
a) I had such hopes, dreams, fantasies of how good so and so would be that I am not wiling to let them go despite all evidence
b) I like so and so, and so I will defend them irrationally to the death

I happen to like Ben quite a bit. He seems like a real nice kid.

The difference is I don't actually give a damn about that basketball-wise. Its a slight positive in that I can envisage carrying him even as a worthless player just for lockerroom tranquility -- if you are going to have a developmental player, make him one everybody likes, not some Royce White or Larry Sanders freaky personality.

Then you aren't really paying attention to the other side. If you were, you would see that no one is suggesting Ben is the answer. More so that Ben isn't the problem some are making him out to be and that the solution of kicking him to the bench potentially brings with it as many problems as it does a solution to an overblown one.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I'm only going to work 10 hours total next week.
We will definitely be below our sales target as a team but that's not my fault right, slim.
Why should I held accountable? I'm only working 25% of my expected work load. That shouldn't put unnecessary pressure on anyone.. ::rolls eyes::

Yeah, those two things are equivalent. Except, wait... no they're not. First of All™, you "taking the week off," so to speak, wouldn't 'definitely" lead to your team being below its sales target, unless there's literally no one else at your company that can do your job (in which case, you may want to ask for a raise, but that's another discussion). And secondly, McLemore got off to a bad start; he wasn't dogging it out there, he wasn't half-assing it. He was playing hard, he just wasn't playing well. He didn't give up on this team, he didn't quit on his team, the decision to play was taken out of his hands (EDIT - And it should have been. He was stinking the joint out). In both of the first two games, McLemore got off to a bad start, and then played better in the third quarter. Last night, he wasn't given a chance to play at all in the third quarter.

A more accurate analogy would be if you blew your first two sales calls of the week, and your team lead decided that he was going to pull you off the phones for the rest of the week, and then your team fell short of your sales target, and then all of the shareholders started blaming you.

 

[Bricklayer]

You're equating better feel to better impact and on some levels you're right that he'd be far more comfortable which could help. But Marcos a worse defender and right now is shooting worse. Not sure I'm ready to shake the rotation up based on "feel for the game".

You have to be. Its an absolutely critical x-factor in basketball. Why some teams with less talent can beat other teams with more talent. Why the Spurs win all the time. Notably of course where Marco is from. Why young teams lose all the time, notably where we have been coming from. Its worth points on the board. Ben's a complete zero in that regard right now.

As far as making Marco a starter, he'd be >> Ben. but the concern remains he's also a key part of a very effective bench crew. That's where it gets dangerous for Ben as a King. You really don't want to resort to Anderson or Butler there as starters, you would like to keep Belli as a bencher, so how do you escape having a terrible starting SG? Well the last option becomes a trade. This team is ready to win, its blatantly obvious watching us these first few games. You don't hamstring such a team. If Rondo can sustain, we become one decent SG from being a serious threat.

Alternately Ben could just start carrying his own weight of course, but he remains so weak and fragile that's almost a minority result. you don't think guys doing the work carrying the team, will get tired of having to "come on Ben, you can do it!", "good job Ben!", "no over there Ben, no over THERE!" all season long as they are trying to win? Of course they will. When you are fighting for something you want an experienced steady hand in the foxhole with you, not a nice kid apprentice.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I've stated, more than once, that I would endorse a trade of McLemore, over benching him. Bellinelli may be a better player, but the team is better when he's the first guy off the bench. And starting Anderson is a bridge to nowhere.

 

[Chubbs]

Please God of basketball, let this be a full season of The Ben Battles.

It's kinda nice he's now the one glaring weakness.

Ben supporters aren't arguing he's good. I just argue starting him and dealing with the pains that causes is better for the team and franchise in the long run.

As long as we are paying him, they have to at least try to develop him.

This isn't a title contending team. I still maintain the best shot at that in the near future is developing Ben, not a short term fix with a Kmart type.

 

[sdballer]

I've stated, more than once, that I would endorse a trade of McLemore, over benching him. Bellinelli may be a better player, but the team is better when he's the first guy off the bench. And starting Anderson is a bridge to nowhere.

My opinion as well but I think there are few upgrades (especially long term) at the 2 that Ben would bring. Which is why I'm am advocate for patience.