[Game] Kings @ Clippers - 10/31 - 7:30 PT, 10:30 ET
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The hate towards McLemore is ridiculous.
He basically just suggested that he'd rather trade away McLemore for anything as long as he's not on this team anymore.
He wasn't even talking about improving our SG position. The person was talking about trading Ben just so he's not in a Kings jersey anymore.
I don't know what to call this.
He basically just suggested that he'd rather trade away McLemore for anything as long as he's not on this team anymore.
He wasn't even talking about improving our SG position. The person was talking about trading Ben just so he's not in a Kings jersey anymore.
I don't know what to call this.
Karl wants to play small ball and vlade got him koufos and WCS. Two 7 footers.
I don't think Karl is on the same page as vlade or Vivek and rumors of almost firing him back that up.
Rondo excel in a system? Dallas had a system. How'd that go?
I thought the difference in philosophies was plainly evident at this point. And I think Karl is struggling making this talent work together.
I don't think Karl is on the same page as vlade or Vivek and rumors of almost firing him back that up.
Rondo excel in a system? Dallas had a system. How'd that go?
I thought the difference in philosophies was plainly evident at this point. And I think Karl is struggling making this talent work together.
Ok, Ben should be on the trading table right now. I did not see anything from him since summer that shows he is ready to make needed jump this year.
It is only 3 games, but it is not that he is even remotely close to what is needed.
That being said, it is even better to have him than to trade him for some future flexibility or just slightly better player that does not fit the need (3 and D). There is nobody that can slide from the current roster to his spot without opening another hole.
I hope that VFD is looking around for another Doug Christie type of player to pull the trade.
Since Doug cannot take the spot, who is available?
It is only 3 games, but it is not that he is even remotely close to what is needed.
That being said, it is even better to have him than to trade him for some future flexibility or just slightly better player that does not fit the need (3 and D). There is nobody that can slide from the current roster to his spot without opening another hole.
I hope that VFD is looking around for another Doug Christie type of player to pull the trade.
Since Doug cannot take the spot, who is available?
Like I said, we gotta agree to disagree. 
I think almost everything can be taught. Of course you won't turn a weakness in a elite strength. But to have sucess you have to turn to your strengths and work on your weaknesses. It's about wether your strengths fit the need of the NBA team, your are playing for.
I think almost everything can be taught. Of course you won't turn a weakness in a elite strength. But to have sucess you have to turn to your strengths and work on your weaknesses. It's about wether your strengths fit the need of the NBA team, your are playing for.
In regards to Ben, I advocate trading him. I haven't looked at the stats and I don't plan to. I see the things he does and doesn't do on the court. Defensively, he gives you effort and that's about it. If it's not man to man defense, he's consistently either lost or slow to rotate. Putting him on the bench and starting Anderson solves nothing and would only delay the obvious. We need a new starting SG. I'm tired of coddling Ben. Two years worth of chances is enough. Any one of us would have long been fired from our respective jobs had our boss waited two years for signs of progress.
If no other option becomes available...and things remain the same with Ben, I'd just start Collison with Rondo and go with the ultimate speed and ball handling backcourt. They've ended up playing much of the games together anyways. If a bigger guard proves too much for Darren to handle, then bring in Anderson for more size and defense.
I do also agree that we should have kept Stauskas instead.....and waited for him to come along and develop with experience. He's the kind of player that will improve every season. I'm fairly certain, that on pure feel and I.Q alone, he will have more impact than Ben, in the near future
I do also agree that we should have kept Stauskas instead.....and waited for him to come along and develop with experience. He's the kind of player that will improve every season. I'm fairly certain, that on pure feel and I.Q alone, he will have more impact than Ben, in the near future
So IMO who the Kings SG can defend is the most important issue here. Ben actually does a fair job of defending his guy. Here are the starting SG's of the current top 8 teams in the Western Conference:
Reddick
Martin
Waiters
Thompson
Green
Bledsoe
Burks
Lee
Outside of Ben who on the Kings would you rather have checking those guys?
I just don't see a lot of room for improvement at the SG position by trading Ben. IMO the best bet is to sign a SG in the Free Agent market after the the Kings resign Rondo after the Playoffs.
Reddick
Martin
Waiters
Thompson
Green
Bledsoe
Burks
Lee
Outside of Ben who on the Kings would you rather have checking those guys?
I just don't see a lot of room for improvement at the SG position by trading Ben. IMO the best bet is to sign a SG in the Free Agent market after the the Kings resign Rondo after the Playoffs.
Ben wasn't the reason why we lost, it was because GK didn't but in WCS when it mattered. I wouldn't mind decreasing Ben's minutes or even benching him if he becomes a liability, but I'd still like him to remain as a project on the Kings, even if it means tightening rotations. Even with tighter rotations, I estimate that we could still make the playoffs. The thought of getting another older guy doesn't appeal to me when we already have a good amount of vets.
Keep in mind that BMac was drafted before Karl was here and the reason he was extended was because he made strides last year. The opinion that Karl doesn't want Ben is ridiculous, once BMac gets confidence in his jumper he will fit the system just right, dude is still only 22 years old. Should be in his senior year of college, give him a break.
Look I'm not focused on Ben. We can trade him. But the trade needs to improve our roster.
Trading Ben for Martin won't help.
And regarding the “scientific“ theory of learning. Thats why I wrote, that most likely you won't turn a weakness into a elite strength.
We are talking about basketball. And there are countless players, who improved in all kind of ways during their careers.
Acting like a 22 year old can't improve anymore is weird from my point of view.
Ben never will be a star. He will always be limited, when it comes to handling the ball.
But that doesn't mean, that he won't improve.
To me it's funny when guys like Danny Green or Courtney Lee are mentioned as desireable veterans.
I'm sure when you go back in time, there were countless fans, who claimed that these guys deserve to be traded or even to be out of the league, because they didn't improve and were not worth waiting for.
Of course Green or Lee would help us now. But it's impossible to get those guys, now that they have some value.
So basically it comes down to the options of trading Ben now for flawed veterans or young talent with the same issues like Ben and hope to squeeze out a few more wins to attract a good FA SG next summer.
Or to stick to Ben and hope he develops into something close to Green or Lee.
Both options have risks. But adding a flawed veteran means we most likely commit more long term salary. And young talent most likely means Ross, who needs to be extended.
So for me the less risky way is to stick with Ben, when there is no offer, that clearly upgrades our team now and in the future (like Fournier mentioned in the personell moves forum)
Trading Ben for Martin won't help.
And regarding the “scientific“ theory of learning. Thats why I wrote, that most likely you won't turn a weakness into a elite strength.
We are talking about basketball. And there are countless players, who improved in all kind of ways during their careers.
Acting like a 22 year old can't improve anymore is weird from my point of view.
Ben never will be a star. He will always be limited, when it comes to handling the ball.
But that doesn't mean, that he won't improve.
To me it's funny when guys like Danny Green or Courtney Lee are mentioned as desireable veterans.
I'm sure when you go back in time, there were countless fans, who claimed that these guys deserve to be traded or even to be out of the league, because they didn't improve and were not worth waiting for.
Of course Green or Lee would help us now. But it's impossible to get those guys, now that they have some value.
So basically it comes down to the options of trading Ben now for flawed veterans or young talent with the same issues like Ben and hope to squeeze out a few more wins to attract a good FA SG next summer.
Or to stick to Ben and hope he develops into something close to Green or Lee.
Both options have risks. But adding a flawed veteran means we most likely commit more long term salary. And young talent most likely means Ross, who needs to be extended.
So for me the less risky way is to stick with Ben, when there is no offer, that clearly upgrades our team now and in the future (like Fournier mentioned in the personell moves forum)
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Well, in fairness to your response I'll admit that I haven't weeded through every post on this subject. So perhaps I should have said that, I've never said that Ben doesn't play hard. In my opinion, Ben doesn't play smart. As for you personally not seeing any evidence that Anderson is a better defender and has better BBIQ than Ben, I understand. And unless Karl decides to put him in the game for meaningful minutes, you won't. I had the opportunity to see him play in college, and more recently in summer league when I was there, and what impressed me the most about him in the minutes he had was his man defense, and switching on defense. He always seemed to know what to do and where to be on the floor. Of course my observations are not without flaws. I was so focused on the Kings players that when the Capt asked me what I thought about one of the opposing players, I didn't even know he had been in the game. Actually, I think he was their leading scorer. My bad!
Of course I realize that it's just summer league, but I do think you can glean something from it. I also think it might have aided Ben's cause to have participated in summer league. Ben's overall skills still leave something to be desired, but they have improved. His biggest problem is between his ear's. He overthinks things, and still tries too hard. When he only needs to go sixty miles an hour to accomplish something, he goes a hundred miles and hour. Looks impressive, but is counter productive. It's harder to make a layup when your flying through the air like a guided missile. As far as trading Ben goes, I bring it up only as a possibility. That doesn't mean I endorse the idea. It would depend on who we trade him for. I wouldn't just give him away. And by the way, I don't think you have answer the "Who are you trading him for" question, to say that you endorse trading him. Making a trade is a process and can take some time. That last bit wasn't directed at you by the way.
The potential (over used word) is still there and he always has him moments in a game where you say wow, if he could just do that all the time he would be great. But that's the essence of the problem isn't it? Ben could solve all this very quickly by showing up and staying. I'm just not sure he knows how to do that. Bottom line is, he needs to do it soon, because it appears that the rope that Karl is letting out is becoming shorter and shorter.
Chubb's your a smart guy, so I won't bother responding to everything you just said other than to say your dead wrong. If you take the time to really analyze what you said, I think you would change it. For instance, yes, Dallas had a system, but an entirely different system than Karl's. To generalize like you did is an insult to your own intelligence, and ours as well. That's all I have to say on the matter.
I don't disagree with much of what you posted. I have no problem sticking with Ben, but that doesn't mean he should be starting. This is probably a cold way of looking at it, but I see every player on the team as a tool first. You open your tool box and see which tool best serves your purpose. If you were to go through the exercise of going through every team in the league and guess which teams Ben would start for, it would probably be a short list, and for the most part, would include most of the bottom feeders. And he wouldn't start for some of them. Who do you think would start on the Lakers, Ben, or Jordan Clarkson? If we want to stick with him, fine, but stick with him with the resolve to develop him, not to throw him into the fire when he's not ready.
I re-watched the Clippers game. Besides Gay jacking up 3's and bricking them on a crucial stretch, why was WCS out there? Granted Cousins was already out, WCS would mostlikey have made an impact than Koufos. I agree Mclemore has been a no show, wish we were able to snag Lou Williams (NBA 6th man then to the Lakers? seriously) or the other Holiday kid from the Warriors would have been a better option.
This is one of the funniest posts I've read in a while. Lets go into it piece-by-piece
You're using the Kosta Koufos signing, a guy who not only played for but started on Karl's team before, as evidence that Vlade and Karl aren't on the same page?
Because all of the rumors this offseason were true right? It really sucks that we traded Boogie to the Lakers. Lets hope DeAngelo Russell makes it worthwhile.
Because there's only one NBA system that all coaches run right? I might, its not like coaches have different philosophies and plays they like to run. Everybody is the same from Memphis to the Warriors.
Because we destroyed the Lakers and nearly took out the Clippers twice, one of which on their home court without our best player for a half? I'm not exactly sure what your expectations for the season were but they don't sound too realistic.
I've seen grasping for straws before, but this is pretty ridiculous
You're using the Kosta Koufos signing, a guy who not only played for but started on Karl's team before, as evidence that Vlade and Karl aren't on the same page?
Because all of the rumors this offseason were true right? It really sucks that we traded Boogie to the Lakers. Lets hope DeAngelo Russell makes it worthwhile.
Because there's only one NBA system that all coaches run right? I might, its not like coaches have different philosophies and plays they like to run. Everybody is the same from Memphis to the Warriors.
Because we destroyed the Lakers and nearly took out the Clippers twice, one of which on their home court without our best player for a half? I'm not exactly sure what your expectations for the season were but they don't sound too realistic.
I've seen grasping for straws before, but this is pretty ridiculous
You won't hear any complaints from me, when Anderson outplays Ben.
But so far he hasn't got any chance and this might be telling us something (or it might not - this is pure speculation).
It's up to Anderson to grab Ben's spot. And I certainly hope Ben fights him off, because our team would benefit from a Ben McLemore, who lives up to his potential.
But so far he hasn't got any chance and this might be telling us something (or it might not - this is pure speculation).
It's up to Anderson to grab Ben's spot. And I certainly hope Ben fights him off, because our team would benefit from a Ben McLemore, who lives up to his potential.
As you may know - I'm Omri's compatriot and one of his devoted fans.
Still, after viewing the game again - the explanation is simple, and for the most part it doesn't have much to do with Omri's presence (though he DID play very well):
I noticed that DeAndre Jordan was subbed-in almost exactly every time that Casspi was subbed-out, and vice versa...
So it turns out that the absence of the Clips' bigman contributed to our +/- while Casspi was on court.
(DJ had a +23 balance for the night)
Still, after viewing the game again - the explanation is simple, and for the most part it doesn't have much to do with Omri's presence
(though he DID play very well):I noticed that DeAndre Jordan was subbed-in almost exactly every time that Casspi was subbed-out, and vice versa...
So it turns out that the absence of the Clips' bigman contributed to our +/- while Casspi was on court.
(DJ had a +23 balance for the night)