WOJ: Rudy Gay informs Kings he'll opt out and likely not return

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#91
I appreciate your point-by-point consideration but none of your responses are particularly compelling or persuasive.
Just because you personally don't find them compelling or persuasive doesn't mean they don't highlight other possibilities. Not everything is an absolute. Not everything is known & a fact. Being objective and open to what could be the reason has its perks. I'd suggest trying it.

For starters what is your basis for distrusting Voison? She said awhile back Rudy wanted out and fans on this board poo-poo'd all over this, as if she was inventing scenarios without merit. Well guess what her assertion was proven true. 100% true. Ailene also contended Boogie was "out of shape" last year and opponents looked to run him because they knew they could get early offense against a guy slow to change ends. This was also proven TRUE in an off-season in which Boogie revealed he had tendonitis in BOTH feet and also lost about 20-30 pounds this summer to improve his mobility with Team USA and pending season.
I don't trust Voison due to the spin she puts in her writing. She has an agenda and she tries to push it as much as she can. Pretty simple really....

If all you can muster is that Rudy wants out because he wants to go to a winner, this is an unconvincing argument. Why? Because if Rudy is requesting a trade or trying to force a trade, then Vlade is under NO obligation to trade him to a contender. For all the control Rudy has, Vlade could trade Rudy to the 76ers. Its not like Rudy orchestrate a trade to the Cavs or Dubs. He just wants out.
If all I can muster? So now you're choosing to ignore other explanations I brought up? Talk about trying to make your argument look stronger than it actually is...

Rudy has not said that he has requested a trade, so to bring it up as fact is false. There are reports on both sides that say he did and did not request a trade. So considering the possibility exists that he did not request a trade, your point looks pretty weak.

But let's pretend that he did request a trade, why does that shoot down the idea that he wants to go to a contender? He doesn't NEED to stay with the team he is traded to. If he is traded to the Sixers, he can easily just walk and sign with a contender next year. At least requesting a trade gives him the opportunity to play with a contender this year.

As you can see, your logic is pretty flaky here...

I think it is more accurate to say I am making educated guesses more than assumptions
I think it's more accurate to say that you are focusing in on one possibility and looking at everything else in the context of that possibility. The fact that you're failing to acknowledge that there are other possibilities is concerning. Is it just stubbornness? I've already claimed that it could be a Cousins thing. Likely? I would say not, but I take exception to you trying to portray something as fact when it couldn't be further from the truth. Going to a contender, feeling betrayed by Vlade for being included in trade rumors, & feeling betrayed for firing Malone after he resigned are all LEGITIMATE reasons to why he may not want to come back next year. Your failure to acknowledge that these are even possibilities is astounding.

and that if Rudy and Boogie were to come together as teammates on and off the court after two seasons, it would have happened already, and we would have already seen more compelling evidence of their coming together. The absence of this evidence is equivalent to writing on the wall.
Are you just looking at the W/L column and making this deduction? It usually helps to have the context of what occurred in those two seasons before you start making claims like this.

Three head coaches in 2014-2015 seems like a pretty big factor. However, in the first 15 games of the 2014-15 season (Malone's tenure), Cousins & Gay played very well on the floor together. When they were on the floor together, Cousins had a 59% TS & Gay had a 61% TS. Also, when those 2 were on the floor, the team averaged 115.3 pts per 100 possessions on offense and 97.9 pts per 100 poss. on defense. That's a +17.4 point differential! For reference, the Spurs were #1 this year with a +11.8 differential. I think it's reasonable to insinuate that Cousins & Gay "came together" under a stable & competent coach that played to the teams strengths.

Then after Malone is fired, we go through two more coaches before the season ends. Coaching changes are important factors to consider especially when both Cousins & Gay were very, Very, VERY happy with Malone. They felt betrayed and who can blame them? It's pretty demoralizing to be so optimistic about the future only to have that future be stripped away from you from your very own FO.

Then this last year we had to put up with the hell that was George Karl who decided it would be wise to alienate our best player right out of the gate by suggesting that he is tradeable. I don't care if he's "technically" correct. You don't say that publicly as a head coach. EVER. There's also the fact that Cousins & Gay were battling injuries last year.

From that perspective, it's hard for me to say Cousins & Gay haven't come together when in fact, they did just that when healthy and under a competent & stable coach who used them well.

Rudy does not want to play with Boogie any more. Period.
And would you look at that! There you go spewing statements like they are fact when you have no idea of knowing if they or true or not. Congratulations! You are "that guy (gal)."
 
#93
Personally, I'd rather hang onto him. I don't see us getting much value from him in a trade, and we'll need his talent to help us compete this year.

Cousins & Gay were a good pairing under Malone. I'm hoping under Joerger we can see similar results. Who knows, perhaps things go well enough to where Gay reconsiders staying here and we're no longer bleeding talent.
 
#94
I keep repeating Rudy is in a contract year. He wants the Big Money so he is likely to have his best year ever and put maximum effort in. Rudy will be more valuable once the season begins in my opinion.
 
#95
DMC: I love Sacramento. I consider this home, so that’s not the problem. The losing is.

SLAM: So you working on your legacy?

DMC: All that comes into play. I want my legacy to be here, I want my number in the rafters here. I want that storyline to be he changed things around in Sacramento.



This is a quote from Cousins in a SLAM magazine March edition ( Language Warning for those that care)
http://www.slamonline.com/antidote/

I am just offering up another possibility. Up to now, all things have pointed to a deep seeded desire within Cousins to make Sacramento great. I imagine if you feel someone on your team doesn't seem to feel the same way, that they might not care as much about that part of being on the Kings as you do, that their may be a rift. If Cousins feels like Rudy doesn't share this desire, and called him on it, then I can see Rudy wanting to change teams.

Like I said just another viewpoint. Many good points have already been brought up, a lot I agree with. I think like many things in life it is a combination of things.

I like Rudy. I love my Kings. In that regard, I think we should hold onto Rudy until we get a good offer around the trade deadline, which I am confident will happen.
 
#97
I want to see the dynamic between Cuz, WCS, Casspi and Barnes unfold.
I actually think they will all feed off each other in a way we have not seen from Kings in a long time.
Also I'm pretty excited about some of our youth. Mali especially seems like a savvy kid who with a bit of time should be fun to watch. Skall another wildcat should be fun when he develops some nasty.
Rudy seems like the only guy, perhaps Koufus?, who does not want to be here, so since we are pretty so so loaded with talent now in all positions cut Rudy lose now and have a fun drama free year.
 
#98
I want to see the dynamic between Cuz, WCS, Casspi and Barnes unfold.
I actually think they will all feed off each other in a way we have not seen from Kings in a long time.
Also I'm pretty excited about some of our youth. Mali especially seems like a savvy kid who with a bit of time should be fun to watch. Skall another wildcat should be fun when he develops some nasty.
Rudy seems like the only guy, perhaps Koufus?, who does not want to be here, so since we are pretty so so loaded with talent now in all positions cut Rudy lose now and have a fun drama free year.
Assuming Rudy is here there is no way all five of those guys get major minutes. That would mean Koufos is completely out of the rotation(hard to see given Joerger already knows and trusts Koufos in his system). I guess it's a good problem to have but you have Cousins, Stein, Koufos, Gay, Casspi and Barnes who all are legit NBA rotation guys, and Tolliver is solid behind them. That's the problem though our frontcourt is stacked while the backcourt has question marks all over. Collison suspension? Lawson, was last season a blip or who really is? Is Afflalo over the hill? Will Ben ever be consistent? Can Temple be. major contributor?
 
#99
Assuming Rudy is here there is no way all five of those guys get major minutes. That would mean Koufos is completely out of the rotation(hard to see given Joerger already knows and trusts Koufos in his system). I guess it's a good problem to have but you have Cousins, Stein, Koufos, Gay, Casspi and Barnes who all are legit NBA rotation guys, and Tolliver is solid behind them. That's the problem though our frontcourt is stacked while the backcourt has question marks all over. Collison suspension? Lawson, was last season a blip or who really is? Is Afflalo over the hill? Will Ben ever be consistent? Can Temple be. major contributor?
That's very true. Koufos averaged 16 MPG behind Gasol in Memphis. For arguments sake, let's just say Cousins averages 34 MPG and we plan on giving Koufos 14 MPG. That's it for minutes at C. Then let's say Gay gets 30 MPG at SF & Cauley-Stein gets 24 MPG at PF. That leaves 40 minutes for Casspi, Barnes, & Tolliver. Casspi should be getting around 26 MPG which leaves Barnes or Tolliver with 14 MPG.

Ideally, you'd probably like to see Cousins getting 36 MPG, Gay getting 34 MPG, Cauley-Stein getting 26 MPG, & Casspi getting 26 MPG. If we're able to move Koufos, that leaves 22 MPG either for Barnes or Tolliver. That balances out the frontcourt quite a bit. A trade involving McLemore & Koufos for picks & a non-rotational, expiring player would set us up in the future better and allow us to set consistent, defined roles within our rotation.

PG - Collison (30 min) / Lawson (18 min)
SG - Temple (22 min) / Afflalo (26 min)
SF - Gay (34 min) / Casspi (14 min)
PF - Cauley-Stein (14 min) / Tolliver (22 min) / Casspi (12 min)
C - Cousins (36 min) / Cauley-Stein (12 min)
 
I just read that Houston traded Beasley to the Bucks for Tyler Ennis. Wonder if this makes Beverley more available as part of a Rudy trade. Or does our recent PG additions out weight Beverly?
Anyways Houston is one of the teams that has shown the most interest.
 
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That's very true. Koufos averaged 16 MPG behind Gasol in Memphis. For arguments sake, let's just say Cousins averages 34 MPG and we plan on giving Koufos 14 MPG. That's it for minutes at C. Then let's say Gay gets 30 MPG at SF & Cauley-Stein gets 24 MPG at PF. That leaves 40 minutes for Casspi, Barnes, & Tolliver. Casspi should be getting around 26 MPG which leaves Barnes or Tolliver with 14 MPG.

Ideally, you'd probably like to see Cousins getting 36 MPG, Gay getting 34 MPG, Cauley-Stein getting 26 MPG, & Casspi getting 26 MPG. If we're able to move Koufos, that leaves 22 MPG either for Barnes or Tolliver. That balances out the frontcourt quite a bit. A trade involving McLemore & Koufos for picks & a non-rotational, expiring player would set us up in the future better and allow us to set consistent, defined roles within our rotation.

PG - Collison (30 min) / Lawson (18 min)
SG - Temple (22 min) / Afflalo (26 min)
SF - Gay (34 min) / Casspi (14 min)
PF - Cauley-Stein (14 min) / Tolliver (22 min) / Casspi (12 min)
C - Cousins (36 min) / Cauley-Stein (12 min)
To me, WCS is in the air. On one hand he is very talented and can potentially form a defensively lethal combo with Cousins and he has underrated range as well. On the other hand if he brings what he did this summer IMO he shouldn't be having too many minutes, taking into account being an older rookie. Unlike Ben's first few years where he was gifted time solely on youth we have other options and pressure to win.

WCS has the natural talent but needs to start to put it together before I see a dominant third big under Joerger (Koufos) moved or I consider him the starting PF. Good news camp is around the corner, some questions will be answered
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
I keep repeating Rudy is in a contract year. He wants the Big Money so he is likely to have his best year ever and put maximum effort in. Rudy will be more valuable once the season begins in my opinion.
Oh, I didn't even think of this!

A Rudy who gives a crap (albeit about money) might actually not play like a (uber talented) pansy!

And then we can ship him off! :p
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
Nick Young and Lou Williams for Rudy is the latest rumor. Thoughts?
Thought one: HELL NO.

Thought two: We already have to cut people. That would mean we have to cut even more people. If we are going to have to cut even more people, we'd better be replacing them with players who are better than they are. Which brings me right back to Thought one.
 
Nick Young and Lou Williams for Rudy is the latest rumor. Thoughts?
My thoughts are beware dubious rumors. This is one of those rare trade scenarios that actual hurt both teams. The Lakers get a guy that IF he made the many better it would only mean a handful of extra wins in a season they are destined for the lotto, and then he will leave. Kings loose a guy that might mean a few needed wins in a season where every win could mean make or break for keeping our franchise player, for young talent that will take up cap space when we need it. Just leaves me scratching my head wonder who would propose the trade and why the other team would accept it.
 
Again any thoughts on Beverley now that Houston just signed Ennis, Harden handles the ball lots, Bev may fit the Kings system better and Houston and Sac have both shown interest in the other teams player.
 
Again any thoughts on Beverley now that Houston just signed Ennis, Harden handles the ball lots, Bev may fit the Kings system better and Houston and Sac have both shown interest in the other teams player.
Ennis has been a bust at this point of his career. I don't think they give up Bev for Gay because they're short on PGs. However, I do think they'd give up Bev for Collison even with his suspension.

I could see the Rockets doing Ariza+McDaniels for Gay. They could involve Brewer too, but the Kings would have no interests. Brewer is pretty washed up now.
 
Lou Williams is a player worth considering but we have loaded up on guards that might be just as good if not better. So no to the Laker trade rumor they have to do better that that.
we may sell low on Gay but there has to be better offers out there.
 
Ennis has been a bust at this point of his career. I don't think they give up Bev for Gay because they're short on PGs. However, I do think they'd give up Bev for Collison even with his suspension.

I could see the Rockets doing Ariza+McDaniels for Gay. They could involve Brewer too, but the Kings would have no interests. Brewer is pretty washed up now.
Thanks for that. I know Ennis is young and looked good coming out of college but was not up on his nba career yet.
Still seems like Houston is a top potential destination for Gay, perhaps your scenario, perhaps include Bev for Collison.
 
I saw somewhere someone propose Rudy and Kosta to the Wolves for Rubio and Muhammad.
With Peclovic done Kosta could help. Rudy and Muhammad both SFs . Rubio is sort of meant to be a King.
Oh well, Im desparate to get this resolved.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
I saw somewhere someone propose Rudy and Kosta to the Wolves for Rubio and Muhammad.
With Peclovic done Kosta could help. Rudy and Muhammad both SFs . Rubio is sort of meant to be a King.
Oh well, Im desparate to get this resolved.
They signed Jordan Hill and Cole Alrdich so I doubt they need another C.
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
Just read on Rotoworld that sources tell Woj that Vivek is "determined to hold on to" Rudy Gay. He is a "vital talent" and he believes that he can persuade him to stay.

Smh...
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
As far as I'm concerned Gay wants out because he feels unappreciated by the management for shopping him this summer as I said

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2016/7/26/12283364/sacramento-kings-rudy-gay-frustration

There is no history of Gay voicing frustration about being in Sacramento prior to this coming out. In it contains:

"If you had your ideal communication situation, what would you like to hear from the franchise?

You don't want to hear things on the internet, on Twitter. You would like to hear it from out of the horse's mouth. Just be upfront with people, that's all you have to do."


Sounds to me like someone who was offended and blindsided about the media coverage of his availability.


Screaming at feeble coaches and tirades are not proven to have one ounce of tangible inpact on this team. This is a personality issue that I see present in some anti-Cousins fans. The team is much worse in the win/loss and on/off without him on the court. I don't care about his demeanor if there is no statistical impact to back it up.
Since it seems to be common knowledge that Gay asked to be traded at seasons end, I think your off base on this one. I think Gay was talking about the fact that he was getting no info about what was going on from the front office and whatever info he was getting, was from the internet and sports pundits. I think it's all just frustration on Gay's part. He wants to be traded, told Vlade and company just that, and it hasn't happened. It's obvious to me that he doesn't want to spend the coming season with the Kings. Unfortunately, there's nothing he can do about it if they don't want to trade him. And apparently, Vivek doesn't want to. At least according to Woj.

I'm starting to get a bad feeling about the outcome of this. First, all this probably lowers Gay's value on the market. Which of course could be reversed if he comes out of the gate firing on all cylinders. But if that happens, you could make a case for not trading him. My greatest fear is that he walks at seasons end and we get nothing for him, except cap space. Sounds a bit familiar doesn't it.
 
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