[Rumor]Kings/Ranadive interested in Sam Hinkie

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by kingjatt, Mar 27, 2017.

  1. Tetsujin

    Tetsujin The Game Thread Dude

    Well, I mean he traded Boogie for Buddy Hield and scraps during the all-star game because that was the only way he could get the move through before Vivek changed his mind but, hey, come to your own conclusions.
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  2. gunks

    gunks Well-Known Member

    So, is it a given that Vlade actually wanted to ship Cuz out?

    Because from what I recall about the rumors the day of the trade, was that Vivek not wanting to resign Cuz to 200 million + is what got the whole ball rolling.

    I'm admittedly super biased against the little goblin, so the Cuz trade being forced by Vivek is a more palatable narrative for me.
    Sac.1989 likes this.
  3. whozit

    whozit Well-Known Member

    Fortunately or unfortunately depending on your point of view, it appears Vlade is following Petrie's footsteps in taking responsibility for Basketball related transactions. Merited or not. Look at the spin that came out after the Malone firing and compare that to the spin that came out after Cousins trade. Seemingly awfully similar and only one person was there both times. I don't think we will ever really know.

    I hope my bias isn't showing. :cool:
  4. Big Cuz 15

    Big Cuz 15 Well-Known Member


    six hunnit fiddy steps ahead

    Last edited: Apr 1, 2017
  5. ockingsfan

    ockingsfan Well-Known Member

    One possible backlash if vlade were to be demoted for hinke, is that vlade has a relationship with Bogdan.

    If Hinke is hired above Vlade, it may cause Bogdan to decide to stay in Europe, instead of coming over this summer.
  6. Big Cuz 15

    Big Cuz 15 Well-Known Member

    ever rotating chairs of titles in the KANGZ org
  7. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    Kings basketball, where instability happens.
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  8. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    If you look up the definition of instability in the dictionary, there is a picture of the Kings logo
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  9. jcassio

    jcassio Well-Known Member

    Ya know, I hate to sound like some of the reactionaries on this board, but Bogdan needs to man-up and find his place in the NBA this year. If he needs guarantees or needs to feel welcome and loved, f-him. I'd be fine trading his rights for a 12-pack if he can't find the courage to fight to be in the NBA.
  10. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    Why the anger at Bogdan? Some of you (not just you in particular, jcassio) make it sound like we're doing Bogdan a favor by bringing him here. Coming to the Kings could easily be a curse and possibly the worst thing to happen to his career. If he's happy where he is, then who are we to say "f-him" if he doesn't want to come over without some guarantees? Courage to fight in the NBA? I'd venture to say it's not courage to consider coming to the Sacramento Kings, but borderline insanity at this point - and I love the team. ;)
  11. jcassio

    jcassio Well-Known Member

    My post about Bogdan was out of character for me. I don't have any anger at Bogdan. So partly I was reacting to the posters who seem to want us to trade assets to make room for the great Bogdan so he will "feel" welcome. And partly I was reacting to my anticipation that, no matter what we do to make him feel welcome, he may still decide to stay in Europe. And I can't fault him if that's his decision. But that would devalue him as one of our assets. Thus the reference to trading him for a 12 pack, or some such symbol of little market value.
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  12. LPKingsFan

    LPKingsFan Well-Known Member

    Not only that, but making important front office structure decisions (i.e., whether or not to retain Vlade at his current stature) certainly should not be made with Bogdan as a key consideration.
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2017
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  13. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    It came out that the Kings did in fact try to trade Cousins for a Vucevic package (Fournier or picks) reported by Amick/Spears etc

    The problem is Vucevic isn't that good, and his lack of D is a problem in the modern NBA. Fournier is a negative in advanced stats. and it kinda smacks of a little bit of ethnocentrism for Vuc to be a target to me even as Nikola is from a separate Former Yugoslav nation

    Another questionable thing on Vlade's behalf
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
  14. Kingz19

    Kingz19 Well-Known Member

    Probably would have been a deeper haul. Mario Henzonja would likely been in there as well. Orlando has two first rounders. Must have been a good reason they backed out. Picks are typically the reason and then meddlesome agents.

    In the end, Buddy Hield is the best individual talent involved in any of the trades I heard. If it had to be done, we probably got what looks like could be among the future scoring leaders who isn't ball dominant but can create his own shot. If we hit in New Orleans slot it might turn out quite well.

    We expect more quantity for Cousins but maybe they got the best quality in a player they coveted for what appears to be good reason. That pick shouldn't have been protected though
  15. Big Cuz 15

    Big Cuz 15 Well-Known Member

    yeah that pick protection bugs the heck out of me. if NO slips into the top 3, they have the ability to turn it around next season cuz, ad, jrue & top 3 talent (fultz, ball, jackson) and get in the playoffs leaving us w/ a mid first round pick. i'm sick of hearing we're gonna have 2 lotto picks when there is a possibility of that being untrue.
  16. jcassio

    jcassio Well-Known Member

    I don't like the top 3 pick protection either. But maybe the deal didn't happen without it. From the Pel's perspective, they probably felt that if they completely fell apart as a result of the trade, or if DMC rec'd a long-term suspension, then they needed to not lose a top 3 pick in the event that it happened. From the Kings perspective, there was little chance of the Pels (with DMC) ending up with a top 3 pick. In fact, as it turned out, I believe the Pels have only a 4% chance of getting a top 3 pick. That's pretty good odds for the Kings.
  17. Larry David

    Larry David Well-Known Member

    The Pelicans could extract the pick protecting because the Kings are dysfunctional. That's why people should be concerned.

    Let's conform the current narrative that Vlade decided DMC should go at some point: (a) before a few days before the NO trade; but (b) less than a year ago. The national reporting and common sense is that the front office was willing to explore DMC trades, but Vivek was reluctant to move his best player. The Pelicans put on a hard press against the Kings with arbitrary deadline(s). They made an offer. By Saturday, they pulled one of the picks off the table. If the Kings weren't willing to accept the pick protection, they claimed to be walking away from the deal on Sunday.

    The trade deadline was still days away and the Kings controlled DMC's right for another year. The top 10 pick protection is a false flag. They could have traded Collision and started the rest regime earlier to keep the pick. I'm not looking to reengage whether they should have traded him or could have got more or less by waiting, but that the Kings had more time to look for a deal in June is not up for debate.

    Conversely, NO's was under the gun. Their coach and GM were at least on hot seats if not headed to the chopping block this summer. If the new of the unconsummated trade leaked on Sunday and the Pelicans didn't make a deal, it would only increase the likelihood the Pelicans GM would be fired this summer.

    So why could the Pelicans aggressively push the Kings around with tight deadlines, because they thought that: Vlade had finally turned Vivek around into trading Cousins after saying no for months; but Vlade was concerned that his quirky owner might change his mind either later that week or in June. If that's true and I think it is, the Kings gave up the pick protection because the Pelicans exploited the Kings dysfunction.
  18. hrdboild

    hrdboild Well-Known Member

    What makes Vlade's deals so bad aren't the main pieces involved it's the details. There was no reason for him to include those swap rights in the Philly deal or give them a pick with no protection on it. No other GM in the league is agreeing to that. They want a top 3 protected pick in 2019 and a former lottery pick with 3 years on his deal for helping us clear out cap space? Fine. Anything more than that is pushing it and you walk away. Hinkie is calling you back. And the same thing with the Pelicans trade. If they're going to drop the second pick it's already a no-go for me. We have a whole year to get a better deal. But under no condition am I giving them top 3 protection after they already dropped the second pick. Knowing that we owe swap rights to Philly this year you push for no protection on the pick and New Orleans buckles because they're going nowhere without a second star.
  19. The_Jamal

    The_Jamal Well-Known Member

    And to add on to this, it's other (not so little) things like admitting to the media that he left a BETTER deal on the table and basically agreed to the trade out of panic rather than out of a position of strength. That's not what you want the person in charge sounding like after a franchise-altering move.
  20. jcassio

    jcassio Well-Known Member

    You may be right, but I think I recall Vlade saying that the (better) offer was pulled. But whatever happened, it doesn't inspire confidence in our GM. Even if he got the best deal that could be had, he handled it poorly. If he's going to remain the guy in charge, I only hope he learned some valuable lessons from that experience.
  21. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    I can't wait until the draft is over:) Way to much gnashing of teeth over a 4% chance of the Pels pick being delayed one season.

    Obviously Vlade is a gambling man and not worried about short odds.
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
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  22. hrdboild

    hrdboild Well-Known Member

    It's more the 0% chance of a first overall pick (and very low chance of even a top 5 pick) in the season where we give away our franchise player that bothers me. I suppose we should be grateful that our front office didn't mess up as badly as Brooklyn's. But when your GM gave up more future assets in a salary dump deal than he got back by trading one of the best players in franchise history it raises a few red flags.
  23. John Galt

    John Galt Well-Known Member


    Neither the lack of protection on the 2019 pick to Philly, nor the swaps, nor the lottery protection offered to NO... has caused any damage... yet. And it's not really odds on that they will cause any damage. Pretty long odds against actually.

    It is like crying over milk that has a 5% future chance of getting spilt.

    And how anybody can confidently comment about what leverage Vlade did or didn't have where the DMC trade is concerned is very curious to me. There is this presumption that Vlade - a sophisticated and intelligent man - bypassed good offers and accepted bad offers, just because I guess he's stupid?? Most people do not presume that he did not in fact have the leverage people on the internet WISH he had. And that lack of respect, that lack of positive regard toward Vlade... really bugs me.
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  24. ockingsfan

    ockingsfan Well-Known Member

    Given the rushed and sudden chain of events of the DMC trade, it looks more like Vlade finally got the go ahead from Vivek to trade DMC, so he jumped on it before Vivek changed his mind.

    If it was just that Vivek didn't want to pay DMC, the Kings still could had waited until the very end of the trade deadline or even the summer before trading DMC. There wouldn't had been a rush to complete the deal if it was just a matter of trading him before having to extend him.
    Larry David likes this.
  25. pshn80

    pshn80 Well-Known Member

    The insanity saying is true and it defines the NBA..
    VF21 likes this.
  26. hrdboild

    hrdboild Well-Known Member

    Stupid? No. Desperate? Seems like it. Though I'm not really sure why. There are reports from other teams that they didn't even know DeMarcus was available. That's not usually how you go about getting the best offer. Even if the pick swaps don't end up hurting us they were still unnecessary and potentially harmful. I could bet my car in a game of poker and come out ahead -- that still doesn't make it a smart move. What if Embiid doesn't hurt his knee again? What if Simmons actually plays this year? We could easily be looking at a pick in the late teens. And there's a precedent already for what franchise players typically bring back in trade. People weren't calling this the worst trade of all time when it happened because they love taking digs at Vlade (well, maybe a few people were...). Unbiased observers hated the trade too because when you compare the return to what other teams got for comparable players (DeMarcus should be first or second team All NBA this year) it didn't make a lot of sense. Telling everyone who would listen that DeMarcus was not available then forcing a trade through out of nowhere didn't make a lot of sense. I'll defend our front office when they deserve it but this was not one of those cases. It was a bad trade. I still respect Vlade for his leadership ability but his deal-making acumen so far has been very poor by any objective standard.

    I will say this though -- I understand why the decision was made to trade DeMarcus when they did. If Vivek was second-guessing the monetary commitment and/or no longer comfortable betting on DeMarcus improving his attitude in the future then you probably want to trade him before this summer rather than risk an ugly public negotiation period. And if you're going to trade him before the draft, the top 10 protection on the Chicago pick (exhibit A of how traded draft rights can hurt your power to negotiate for years without technically "hurting" you in any literal sense) means that trading him before the deadline and tanking to keep our pick this year was an important factor as well. The rationale makes sense. I'm mostly just unhappy that Vlade settled for what he did once the decision was made to find a deal. And the same goes for the Sixers deal. There's no precedent for a team giving up that much to clear out a couple of bad contracts. You have to try really hard to play apologist on that one. I had nothing but positive regard for Vlade when he took over as President/GM. He's had to earn any criticism he gets from me the hard way.
    Big Cuz 15 likes this.
  27. John Galt

    John Galt Well-Known Member

    All reasonable enough. I just think the agenda and ambitions evolved and it kinda makes sense to me.

    Philly trade was a win-now gambit that didn't pan out. I don't think it was insane. It was "win around DMC now" and so we whiffed on Matthews, got Rondo who for my money played his nuts out for us. It just didn't happen to work out. But a 2019 that by your plan would be in the mid-20's, some swaps that were very low odds... to get rid of loser players and bad contracts. Reasonable people can hate it but at the time there was a rationale. Win now with DMC.

    fast forward to 2017... there are some positive flashes - wins over Boston & GSW & the Lebrons.... but isn't it possible that reality was sinking in for Vivek that a battle for #8 was the ceiling? Win now with DMC is not working out and there isn't a clear path to making it work out. Rudy is leaving.. you have no picks.. you have no FA appeal. How are you going to perform the next 5 years with a maxed out DMC (who is all the time flirting with PR trouble, technicals, etc - by his own admission a knucklehead)?

    Is it sooo crazy to pull the rip cord here on the DMC era? I don't think so.

    Now about the value for DMC - the interesting thing to me - a very interesting thing - is that the dreaded "national media" did not kill Vlade at all for this. No credible national media that I know of has killed Vlade for taking Buddy, a first, and an early second for DeMarcus. Yes the local fan base who had visions of sugarplums (the moon from Boston) in our heads - we were disappointed... but the national narrative is not to slam Vlade for the value in return. Perhaps the market is a more efficient one than we think. The price is the price.

    Now the hype over "there was a better offer"... ok so DeMarcus' agent gave the Pels cold feet and they downgraded a 2018 first to a 2017 second. Sucks. But it is.

    Now was the DMC price headed up or down?? a 1 year rental and a max contract to re-sign (and he has no $$ incentive to sign with you in particular at the end of the contract). What do people hope/imagine would be happening if we were shopping DeMarcus now? That somebody would offer Lonzo Ball and a big expiring contract or something?

    Now what jacks up my own story is the possibility that Boston would be -right this minute - considering to up their offer and put the Nets pick on the table, but that is a fluke and probably still not likely.

    What is an empirical fact??? the Pels sputtered with DeMarcus and may very very very well live to regret the trade. I would bet that they regret it right at the moment.

    Can't wrap this up tidy - I rambled. I just happen to like Vlade and I can follow along in real time and defend all his moves including Philly trade. In my opinion - the Philly trade almost could have worked if there hadn't been the horrible Karl/DMC strive to ruin that season.
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  28. Sac.1989

    Sac.1989 Well-Known Member





    Skip Bayless through Fox (worst trade in history quotes)


    Numerous others but no use compiling
  29. gunks

    gunks Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I recall plenty of heads being scratched at the time of the trade.

    And it wasn't just what we got for Cuz, but how it went down.

    There were all the lies about we would never trade him leading up to the trade.

    There was the fact that Vlade didn't even try to open up a bidding war for who is arguably a top ten player.

    It was all rushed. If we wanted to trade Cuz, we should have last summer. We would have gotten much more for him.

    Then we have reports of the lil goblin ONLY wanting buddy or Ingram.

    It was a cluster ****. The fact that we might still come out of this ok is a miracle. Of course, Pels could also jump into the top 3, and then we'll get like, pick 14 next season. So yeah. ..
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  30. LPKingsFan

    LPKingsFan Well-Known Member

    I generally agree with you when it comes to the strategy. The devil, as they say, is in the details.

    I remember one of the major NBA podcasts following the trade -- I forget if it was Lowe or Woj -- was generally favorable for the Kings. But they mentioned the top-3 protection on the pick as a crucial detail that the Kings either overlooked or undervalued. I forget the exact wording, but the critique was along the lines of, "smart teams know that there is sneaky value in these small details." Sure, there's a low percentage chance that the Pelicans land a top 3 pick, but the loss of value to the Kings (from top 3 in 2017 to likely outside the lottery in 2018) would be significant. It's fair to criticize taking such a chance even if it never happens.
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