[Rumor]Kings/Ranadive interested in Sam Hinkie

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by kingjatt, Mar 27, 2017.

  1. Iced Espresso

    Iced Espresso Well-Known Member

    Signing Thompson & Landry to those contracts in the first place have always annoyed me more than the trade.

    Just the cost of cap space right at the start of FA.
  2. pshn80

    pshn80 Well-Known Member

    I am sure this post is insightful and well thought out but for me it is not cnvncing that the Kings are outlandishly stupid. We do the best we can and we don't do bad. This jind of hindsight is a waste of time and emotion. What can you do for me today? We have game tomorrow and a season to finish out and a draft to work on aund FAs to deal with and maybe trades. We have a FO to deal with this and they will. I'm looking forward to it all.
  3. Čarolija

    Čarolija Well-Known Member

    There is a difference between hindsight and pattern. Some people just chose to ignore it because it makes them feel better about things.

    In 5 years time when Kings are in the same spot again, there will still be people claiming benefit of hindsight and ignoring a decade of repeatable behavior.

    Isn't the saying something along the lines of "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result"?! ;)
    kingjatt likes this.
  4. jcassio

    jcassio Well-Known Member

    As someone else mentioned, why use a high pick on someone who was reported to be dropping in the draft? Isn't that part of a good GM's strategy so he gets max value from his picks? Of course, I don't know that this ever entered into Vlade's thinking. But then you don't know that it didn't. And even if Vlade thought on draft night that Skal was the least likely of his three first round picks to succeed, he still picked Skal over 100 other guys he could have taken a chance on. Where in this do you feel it fair to not give Vlade ANY CREDIT for drafting Skal?
  5. ockingsfan

    ockingsfan Well-Known Member

    And explain to me how trading DMC and trying to rebuild around the youngsters is doing the same thing over and over again?

    The Kings tried for 6 -7 years to build around DMC and no one could do it, not Petrie, not PDA (bad example :mad:) and not Vlade. The Kings never won more than 33 games and FA players weren't clamoring to come to Sacramento to play next to DMC.

    So, Vlade decided it is finally time to move on and now the youth movement. Why don't you give it a couple of years to play out before you declare the rebuild a total disaster.

    As long as Vivek stays out of the way, I think Vlade with Coach Joeger gives us the best chance to be relevant again soon. :)
  6. Mass

    Mass Well-Known Member Contributor

    Again, tradaing DMC is not the problem. Trading DMC for a first top 3 protected pick, Hield and garbage is the problem. This is what the Kings are doing over and over again. Bleeding talent. Selling low and buying high.
  7. ockingsfan

    ockingsfan Well-Known Member

    Essentially, the Kings got 3 first round Lottery picks for DMC. They got the 2016 6th pick (Buddy Hield), the 2017 Lottery Pick from New Orleans (hopefully (#8-10) and they will be able to keep their own 2017 Lottery pick (#6-8), which the Kings would have lost had they not traded DMC before the trade deadline. The Kings also got a high 2017 2nd round pick.

    That is 3 first round picks for DMC (who by all accounts ruined any trade value he had by his agent telling all teams he would not sign an extension with them).

    And don't think that because the Kings 2017 Lottery pick didn't come directly from New Orleans, that it is not part of the DMC trade package, because I am sure Vlade factored keeping our own 2017 Lottery pick into his decision, when making the trade mid-season.

    IMHO, getting 3 Lottery Picks and a high 2017 2nd round pick for potentially a 1 1/2 years DMC rental to any team trading for him, is not bad.
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
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  8. mac

    mac Well-Known Member

    Hey that's how I feel about keeping Cousins!
    John Galt, jcassio and ockingsfan like this.
  9. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    Or maybe they feel just as strong about the Kings as you or other more positive guys do, but simply don't have any confidence in our FO and ownership anymore?
    This is not directed at you, but over the last weeks, it has been en vogue on this board to dispute the level of fandom, when people are disagreeing with each other.
    And while I have no problem accepting the opinion of posters, who look at the Kings, at Vivek or Vlade entirely different than I do, this is something that really annoys me.
    Being a fan doesn't mean you necessarily have to agree with everything the organisation does, or have to find excuses for every action of the people in charge.
    A fan can obviously have a bad feeling about the direction of his team. This doesn't necessarily mean, he should abandon his team or should just keep his opinion for himself.
    If someone is truly affected by negative comments coming from other fans, his level of optimism must be pretty shaky to begin with.

    I think we can have much more fruitful and peaceful discussions, when we leave the doubts about each others fandom out of it.
    Tetsujin and Čarolija like this.
  10. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    You are right. We have to give Vlade some credit for the guys he drafted, no matter, if he let Skal slide or not.
    I understand, when people are thinking of Vlade as a decent talent evaluator.
    I personally tend to be a little more cautious, because frankly potential doesn't matter that much to me anymore. In the end the Kings had great potential with IT, Tyreke and DMC. They even had the chance to add more potential to that core, but blew it in epic fashion. Building a team is so much more, than having some potential. In the end nearly every guy in the NBA will show some potential, when given minutes and when you look at him through your team colored glasses.
    The only thing that counts in the end is wins and losses. People were repeating that over and over again, throughout DMC's tenure in SAC. Now suddenly it's once again about potential. This is a very comfortable position for the FO to be in, because the fans have tempered their expectations to a point, where a few semi competent plays by the young guys are enough to keep the optimism alive.

    Of course this mindset won't last. At some point, it will be once again more about winning basketball games. And I personally have no faith at all, that GM Vlade Divac and owner Vivek Ranadive have the know how and patience necessary to further match the expectations of the fans at that point.
    I don't think they have what it takes to build a winning team. Not because they are entirely clueless when it comes to talent evaluation (even though I don't think as highly of Vlade as some people obviously do in that area), but more because of everything else required to get a team over the hump like trades, roster composition, FA, negotiating skills, public presence and the ability to sell the vision and idea of the franchise to the NBA community.
    Tetsujin and Čarolija like this.
  11. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    I understand where you are coming from and "love" was a poor choice of words.
    But while you decided to put your faith in Vlade Divac, the picture you are painting of a possible future under Hinkie is a very dark one.
    And has Vlade shown the ability to keep Vivek reeled in?
    Tetsujin likes this.
  12. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    The one area I have been impressed with the Kings post DMC trade has been the chemistry. They have played hard in most games. The players support each other. The Vets have been solid in their roles as mentors. The young guys are showing improvement. The Joerger led coaching staff has done a nice job developing the young guys and blending the talent. For these reasons I continue to have hope for the future.

    Vlade and the front office has set the Kings up with some extra picks for the upcoming draft. I also suspect we will once again be surprised at the Free Agent class brought in. I don't have any complaints about Temple. Koufos or Tolliver. Marco netted a first round pick. Those picks and a solid FA or two give me hope.

    Vivek is the wild card that can screw all this hope up. I blame him for the Malone debacle, stalling the DMC trade (even though I love Boogie) and chatting with Hinkie and causing the latest poopoo storm in the media. Vivek needs to stay completely out of the Basketball Operations side of the business that is the Kings.
  13. jcassio

    jcassio Well-Known Member

    Good points. Sometimes I wonder if I'm being too negative around here because I feel like everyone deserves my wrath from time to time, including some fans. Gotta say what I think. But then I see a poster with nothing good to say, ever; everything and everybody is chit, and the world is ending. Then I feel like Pollyanna. It's confusing to be a King's fan.
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  14. jcassio

    jcassio Well-Known Member

    Actually, I think Vlade needs help. His bumbling of the DMC trade (the business and PR side of it, not the talent side) made it clear to me that he's a rookie at that game and that's not to our advantage. I'm not sure the solution (or who might be the solution), but I hope we don't turn to Hinkie the Horrible. In fact, I hope we don't turn to any hands-on, high level exec who will want to choose all the key staff below him. The one area where I do have faith in Vlade is talent evaluation. At least for now, I give him good marks on that front. And if Vlade is the one who pushed for Joerger, I give him good marks for that choice as well.
  15. whozit

    whozit Well-Known Member

    I like this post especially the part about Vivek. They used to say Cousins was the constant. He was (I am not giving him the blame although he shares in it) but there was a bigger elephant in the room and he is still there.

    I have optimism about the team and the coach. I haven't given up on Vlade despite his despicable handling of the Cousins trade. My problem is Vivek scares the hell out of me! He is now the one constant everything else has been turned over sometimes multiple times.
  16. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    It wouldn't surprise me if for some reason,between now and 2 years from now, Vivek fires Joerger and his staff, because we are not winning enough or Vlade is replaced and he hires a guy like Hinkie or other GM who wants their coach in position.

    Joerger and his staff have been outstanding. Thornton is a good big man coach, Elston Turner probably should be a head coach somewhere......this staff is why, despite the trade, I have hope. Sure would have liked to see Joerger get more than 40 games with Boogie but going forward, Sac needs to keep this guy for a long time.
  17. ockingsfan

    ockingsfan Well-Known Member

    The thing about Hinke is that his sole plan in Philly was to tank and tank some more. He even intentionally picked 2 big men with known serious knee problems (Noel and Embiid) with the intent to let them sit out a year or more, so he could tank some more.

    Even the NBA got involved and basically forced the 76ers to hire a respectable F.O. guy in Jerry Colangelo, who eventually ousted Hinke and his tank plan.

    Here is the fact of the matter, the Kings can not do a long term tank job, like Philly, because we don't own our 2019 1st round draft pick.

    Once you start the tank spiral, it is a long way out of it, just look at Philly.

    With Coach Joeger, I think he could coach up the young guys and the vets (there are always trades, our 2017 and 2018 draft picks and FA that can be brought in with our huge cap space) and the Kings can be competitive sooner than a lot of people think.

    Never underestimate the value of a good coach, like Joeger. I see the Kings players fighting everyday and they never give up. Players are running through walls for our coach and I can see the Kings putting it together and making a run at the 8th spot in the playoffs by 2019.
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  18. Big Cuz 15

    Big Cuz 15 Well-Known Member

    but he saved the team from leaving and built a shiny new building tho
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  19. whozit

    whozit Well-Known Member

    Please tell me this was sarcasm ......................
    King Baller likes this.
  20. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    That's why coaches get fired, and Joerger has been unimpressive in his first year on the winning front (and I don't see the objective reasoning why he's been great)

    I think he will be given another two years regardless who is at the helm.
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  21. Suicide King

    Suicide King Well-Known Member

    @Kingsfan23
    Joerger has been unimpressive? Not sure what expectations you had.

    Which coach specfically would you prefer? Realisticaly speaking. While we are at it which F.O. executive as well.
    Čarolija likes this.
  22. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    On the winning front. He's been on a worse or even pace with Karl for a lot of the year.

    If we had Pop or the like I would've thought they 'couldve' made a run with Cousins et all instead of being a few games out of the 8th, therefore forcing us to rebuild

    But it's more the opposite, what has he done/accomplished that makes him worthy of praise here?

    It can just be he's a decent, mid range coach that needs more time to make an impression either way.
  23. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    And that's the whole thing in 9 short words.
  24. Suicide King

    Suicide King Well-Known Member

    @Kingsfan23

    Well I knew you would mention Pop despite my "realistically" caveat, but I didn't expect his to be the only name. Who wouldn't want Pop?
  25. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    Hahaha.....you be you.
    Tetsujin likes this.
  26. whozit

    whozit Well-Known Member

    And the one thing I have no confidence in. I was hopeful that Vlade could keep him in check but there was too much smoke in the Cousins trade to keep that hope. I would love to be wrong.
  27. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    I can't worry about it any more. I love my Kings and that's not gonna change so I guess I just have to accept the fact that the only thing I can count on is that we'll continue to see variations of Murphy's Law every time things go smoothly for a little while. Life is just too short to allow someone like Ranadive to ruin it. I'll follow the team in spite of him with the constant and abiding hope that sometime, much like with the Chicago Cubs, things may finally go right. :)

    #GoKings

    #ILoveThisTeam

    #SacramentoProud
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  28. ockingsfan

    ockingsfan Well-Known Member

    I think Coach Joeger is doing the best with the players he has, especially with a rebuild mid-season.

    If you watch the games now, compared to when Coach Karl was coach, you will see that the players play hard for Coach Joeger EVERY night. With Coach Karl, you could just see the team quit every time they got down. It is night and day, really.

    Despite the similar records, I would go with the Coach that the players believe in and when the players get more experience and chemistry together, I think you will see big improvement in the next year or two.

    This is a rebuild in mid-season, so give it some time and be patient (especially you Vivek!) and let this thing blossom over the next couple of years! :)
  29. whozit

    whozit Well-Known Member

    I'm still here ..................... And more importantly it's something I have no control or even influence over. So, so be it. :)
    King Baller and VF21 like this.
  30. Čarolija

    Čarolija Well-Known Member

    Could not agree more with this. The coaching staff on this team has done an outstanding job this season. They are doing the right things, developing players the right way and setting the foundations that should turn this franchise around if the other side of it can just be patient and not sabotage everything.
    Merdiesel, jcassio, dude12 and 2 others like this.

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