Kings Pre-draft Workouts

[The_Jamal]

A big part of me wants to leave this draft with Kaminsky. I see a more athletic Brad Miller. Guy is just so skilled offensively and fits perfectly with Cuz on that end. He's also someone I think you could slide down to C when Cuz needs a breather and run the offense through him at times. He's no WCS defensively, but he'd immediately become one of the best defensive/rebounding stretch 4's in the game. I don't think he'll end up anything but average defensively at the NBA level, but he's a good rebounder, he competes hard, he's 7'0 tall and he's already got good defensive principles.

I know it's only 2 games, but him basically equaling or even out playing WCS, Towns and Okafor in the Final Four and the championship game is something to be considered.

I would not at all be opposed to trading down to 10-13 range, picking up a solid vet+Kaminsky with our pick.

 

[SacTownKid]

Thank goodness, there's Waldo. Now put his outfit on Kaminsky and stick him a large crowd on draft night so the Kings don't mistakenly draft him.

 

[jcwkings]

I really like Kaminsky too, his stroke and ability to put it on the floor/ footwork off the dribble is pretty unique. His passing is also very good. I think he can be what people always hoped Spencer Hawes would be, meaning yeah the next Brad Miller. Kaminsky makes sense as well if you plan on keeping Collison and Ben, Cuz and Kaminsky would be a hell of a passing big men combo.

 

[ElRey]

Given the players that have worked out for us, I sense a trade coming with us moving down the draft a little.

 

[bajaden]

I love Frank Kaminsky, but not at six. He's one of the most improved players in the country from his freshman year. The question is, how will his game, and athleticism translate to the NBA? He went up against Okafor twice last season and out played him twice, getting him in foul trouble both times. Although Kaminsky is known for his sweet stroke from beyond the stripe, he scored 70% of his baskets in the post. So he's not one of those softies that just hangs on the perimeter. He has excellent handles, and is a very good passer. Truth is, if he was a little more athletic, and had a little bigger wingspan, he'd likely be a top 7 or 8 pick.. He's one of those guys that a couple of years from now could be better than half the players taken ahead of him.

 

[Sac.Kings]

I love Frank Kaminsky, but not at six. He's one of the most improved players in the country from his freshman year. The question is, how will his game, and athleticism translate to the NBA? He went up against Okafor twice last season and out played him twice, getting him in foul trouble both times. Although Kaminsky is known for his sweet stroke from beyond the stripe, he scored 70% of his baskets in the post. So he's not one of those softies that just hangs on the perimeter. He has excellent handles, and is a very good passer. Truth is, if he was a little more athletic, and had a little bigger wingspan, he'd likely be a top 7 or 8 pick.. He's one of those guys that a couple of years from now could be better than half the players taken ahead of him.

I have to agree with you. On offense, I am not that worried about him, he is a smart player and will adapt. However, on defense, I just don't know if he has what it takes. I don't doubt that his team defense can become suitable at the least, but man to man defense, he will be at a disadvantage most of the time. He would certainly make our offense smoother to watch and if we somehow obtained a pick in the 10-15 range, he would a great choice. Oh to dream, WCS at #6, obtain another pick and get Kaminsky. We would be young in the frontcourt, but that's a lot of talent.

 

[VF21]

I don't participate in these threads as a general rule, but I'm glad the Kings are looking at Frank Kaminsky. I really feel he could be the surprise pick of this draft. I'd like to see him playing next to Cousins as I think he's got everything people have talked about PLUS he's no dummy.

 

[The_Jamal]

I really like Kaminsky too, his stroke and ability to put it on the floor/ footwork off the dribble is pretty unique. His passing is also very good. I think he can be what people always hoped Spencer Hawes would be, meaning yeah the next Brad Miller. Kaminsky makes sense as well if you plan on keeping Collison and Ben, Cuz and Kaminsky would be a hell of a passing big men combo.

Collison-Ben-Gay-Kaminsky-Cuz sounds really damn fine to me. Lots of passing/playmaking/shooting surrounding Cousins. And as we saw last year, our starting 5 had the potential to be really, really good defensively. It might take a bit of time, but I could very easily see Kaminsky being a JT-level of a defender. Supplement those 5 with some solid role guys off the bench, and we're cooking with fire.

Same goes for WCS. Team plays a lot different with him on the floor as opposed to Kaminksy, but still provides us a ton of benefit. Can't we just walk away with both?

 

[kingsfan1984]

Id be happy with a vet and Kaminsky...Id like Porz to come to us, but if he is gone I would prefer a trade down to get a good vet and Kaminsky. I think our problems on offense bigger than on defense. With smart players, assuming Kaminsky will be one of those, team defense will improve and be more than enough to get the job done.

 

[kingsfan1984]

I just don't want a trade that will exchange our pick for Lawson. Maybe im overvaluing the pick, or undervaluing Lawson, but he just seems too much money and will be on the downswing of his career where he will be losing his quickness...I look into my crystal ball and see a Future Raymond Felton in Lawson.

 

[SwishKing]

I just don't want a trade that will exchange our pick for Lawson. Maybe im overvaluing the pick, or undervaluing Lawson, but he just seems too much money and will be on the downswing of his career where he will be losing his quickness...I look into my crystal ball and see a Future Raymond Felton in Lawson.

No, you got him about pegged.

https://twitter.com/ryenarussillo/status/611551442642554880

The talk of Lawson to SAC for #6. I thought it was reasonable. Two GM's laughed at me, hurt my feelings type of laughter. Ty stock is low...

 

[dude12]

For gods sake, no on Kaminsky.

 

[VF21]

For gods sake, no on Kaminsky.

Care to elaborate?

 

[dude12]

Care to elaborate?

I've elaborated in other threads. He's another player who is supposed to be NBA ready and I don't believe it to be so. I don't think that what he did in college will translate to the NBA.. Not saying he won't have a career but why draft a player to be a backup. We should draft someone who has more upside and can become a starter.

I think there are better options to be had.....even if we traded down. At some point, we need to stop drafting players who will not be or won't be elite athletes or average at best defenders. Goes back to the Stauskas pick over Elfrid Payton. We passed on a player with elite size and potential at a premium position. I think we could better than Kaminsky.

 

[VF21]

I've elaborated in other threads. He's another player who is supposed to be NBA ready and I don't believe it to be so. I don't think that what he did in college will translate to the NBA.. Not saying he won't have a career but why draft a player to be a backup. We should draft someone who has more upside and can become a starter.

I think there are better options to be had.....even if we traded down. At some point, we need to stop drafting players who will not be or won't be elite athletes or average at best defenders. Goes back to the Stauskas pick over Elfrid Payton. We passed on a player with elite size and potential at a premium position. I think we could better than Kaminsky.

Fair enough. As I said, I generally don't participate in these kinds of threads so I missed the stuff you elaborated elsewhere.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Kaminsky...at least for now. I think IF they decide to trade down for a veteran, he might be a viable option. I liked what I saw from him against Duke and I think he's gonna surprise some people.

 

[rainmaker]

Kaminsky's ceiling is too low to take him where we are. He'll probably be a good role player, maybe eventually a borderline bench/starter type guy, could start in some situations but we need someone with potential to have a higher impact. Some star qualities. Not his level of defensive limitations.

I'm willing to wait on a Porzingis/Hezonja type and get vet help in free agency/trades. This team is starved of star talent. True difference makers. Need to get one if you can even if he takes some time to develop.

Kaminsky is not going to be starting next to Cuz next year and helping us to the playoffs. Few draft picks will. So go with the higher ceilings. All these guys, WCS included are projects to an extent.

 

[Gilles]

Collison-Ben-Gay-Kaminsky-Cuz sounds really damn fine to me. Lots of passing/playmaking/shooting surrounding Cousins. And as we saw last year, our starting 5 had the potential to be really, really good defensively. It might take a bit of time, but I could very easily see Kaminsky being a JT-level of a defender. Supplement those 5 with some solid role guys off the bench, and we're cooking with fire.

Same goes for WCS. Team plays a lot different with him on the floor as opposed to Kaminksy, but still provides us a ton of benefit. Can't we just walk away with both?

That will never happen, not even close. Frank will be torched likely for his whole career, unless you can really cover for him. That would be very fun offense to watch, but Kings starting lineup didn't have any problems scoring with JT in there, and Boogie will have way more defensive responsibilities than he should, if you put Frank next to him.
And here's another problem: Kaminski plays with the ball a lot, make him an off the ball player, and he loses a lot of value on offense. You can put him at PF, stick Bismack Biyombo and MKG next to him and be fine on both ends. Detroit, Miami (if Whiteside keeps his head str8 after signing big contract, though Miami already have McBob) or Utah look like similar destinations. Actually putting Frank between Hibbert and George sounds like it could work very well. Kings just need Boogie on the floor way too much and can't afford increase his foul trouble.

 

[Fear the Putin]

 

[CruzDude]

Warriors won it all with best defense and best offense and most important with a total team approach. Everyone bought in to Kerr's approach and everyone helped each other.

 

[jdbraver]

id say we need more shooters, more defenders, more everything....oh but less young kids and more vets.

 

[kingsfan101]

The last two finals MVP awards were won by small forwards who play stellar defense, can hit the spot up 3 at a decent clip, are strong and athletic, don't need the ball to be effective, and are strong finishers around the rim.

There is a player who meets all these criteria in this draft, and is named Winslow. He's also expected to be around when we pick.

We don't need shooters, and we don't need offensive players. We need players who can focus on defense, and help spread the floor on offense. I hope the FO looks at these criteria on 25th.

 

[Gilles]

So is Justin Anderson.

 

[VF21]

MOD NOTE:

This is Kingsfans.com - we are NOT Facebook. We aren't going to turn this OR ANY OTHER THREAD into a discussion of racial profiling and we certainly aren't going to reproduce some of the drivel from FB to prove a point. I've removed about a dozen posts that were not in keeping with that guideline. If peeps really want to read that kind of stuff, they're more than welcome to go to FB to do so.

 

[bajaden]

I have to agree with you. On offense, I am not that worried about him, he is a smart player and will adapt. However, on defense, I just don't know if he has what it takes. I don't doubt that his team defense can become suitable at the least, but man to man defense, he will be at a disadvantage most of the time. He would certainly make our offense smoother to watch and if we somehow obtained a pick in the 10-15 range, he would a great choice. Oh to dream, WCS at #6, obtain another pick and get Kaminsky. We would be young in the frontcourt, but that's a lot of talent.

No doubt that his defense is the question. He actually has good lateral quickness, but his overall foot speed is just average. Tough competitor that will figure out how to make it in the NBA.

 

[bajaden]

Kaminsky's ceiling is too low to take him where we are. He'll probably be a good role player, maybe eventually a borderline bench/starter type guy, could start in some situations but we need someone with potential to have a higher impact. Some star qualities. Not his level of defensive limitations.

I'm willing to wait on a Porzingis/Hezonja type and get vet help in free agency/trades. This team is starved of star talent. True difference makers. Need to get one if you can even if he takes some time to develop.

Kaminsky is not going to be starting next to Cuz next year and helping us to the playoffs. Few draft picks will. So go with the higher ceilings. All these guys, WCS included are projects to an extent.

You know I've come to dislike the word project, but understand the concept in which it's used. Unfortunately, it means one thing to some people and another to others. In the sense your using it, I agree. I think all draftee's should be looked at in that way with expectations adjusted accordingly. We should always try and draft the best talent possible, and if you get lucky and draft someone that can help sooner than later, so much the better. I think WCS falls into that category. He has played three years of college ball, and is ready to go defensively. His offense may or may not become an attribute, but I admire his confidence.

By the same token, I don't have a problem taking a flyer on Porzingis or Hezonja. But everyone needs to understand, they're both players of the future more than they are the now. I have watched a ton of film on Mudiay, and after watching Russell all year long at Ohio St. I'd take Russell ten times out of ten over Mudiay. Just not sold on Mudiay. He kind of looks like Tyreke Evans light. His shot looks better form wise, but Tyreke has better handles, and is a much better finisher. But hey, I could be wrong. As for Kaminsky, I certainly never suggested we take him at six. My comments were in general. I do like him and think he's going to surprise some people. Ironically, Kaminsky is one of those players that isn't a project. He comes packaged and ready to go. Whatever that means.

 

[bajaden]

That will never happen, not even close. Frank will be torched likely for his whole career, unless you can really cover for him. That would be very fun offense to watch, but Kings starting lineup didn't have any problems scoring with JT in there, and Boogie will have way more defensive responsibilities than he should, if you put Frank next to him.
And here's another problem: Kaminski plays with the ball a lot, make him an off the ball player, and he loses a lot of value on offense. You can put him at PF, stick Bismack Biyombo and MKG next to him and be fine on both ends. Detroit, Miami (if Whiteside keeps his head str8 after signing big contract, though Miami already have McBob) or Utah look like similar destinations. Actually putting Frank between Hibbert and George sounds like it could work very well. Kings just need Boogie on the floor way too much and can't afford increase his foul trouble.

You know, I don't know if Frank will be torched in the NBA or not. And that's as honest as I can be. I don't know. Here's what I do know. Wisconsin was known for its defense, and Kaminsky was part of that. He played excellent defense against every good big man he came up against including Okafor twice and Karl Towns once. It's easy to say that, yeah, but if he has to play PF, most of them will be quicker than him. Maybe, but truth is, except for the occasional times he did play against a Towns or an Okafor, he was guarding players that were smaller and quicker than him, and he did fine. He does have very good lateral quickness, and good anticipation. Does that mean he'll be a good defender in the NBA? Don't know, but I'm not as ready as you are to pass judgement just yet. I doubt we'll ever see him in a Kings uniform, but it should be fun to watch his progress.

 

[bajaden]

The last two finals MVP awards were won by small forwards who play stellar defense, can hit the spot up 3 at a decent clip, are strong and athletic, don't need the ball to be effective, and are strong finishers around the rim.

There is a player who meets all these criteria in this draft, and is named Winslow. He's also expected to be around when we pick.

We don't need shooters, and we don't need offensive players. We need players who can focus on defense, and help spread the floor on offense. I hope the FO looks at these criteria on 25th.

If defense is truly what your looking for, then WCS is your guy. He is the best defensive player in the entire draft. As or Winslow, if he was an inch and a half taller, I'd be all over him. But he was 6'4.5" in his bare feet. And through some miracle, somehow he found shoes that added two inches to his height, making him 6'6.5". Which is borderline tall enough to play the SF position. I had Winslow and Stanley Johnson dead even on my list all year long, and I still do. I realize that Winslow shot the ball well in the tournament, but so did some kid named Derrick Williams and he was actually legit size. Don't get me wrong, I think Winslow will be a good NBA player, but nothing is guaranteed just because we wish it so.

To say that we don't need offensive players is just as ridiculous as saying we don't need defensive players. What we need are complete basketball players that can play both ends of the court. This isn't a war between defense and offense. It's not an either or. It's not as though you can't have both.

 

[206Fan]

You know I've come to dislike the word project, but understand the concept in which it's used. Unfortunately, it means one thing to some people and another to others. In the sense your using it, I agree. I think all draftee's should be looked at in that way with expectations adjusted accordingly. We should always try and draft the best talent possible, and if you get lucky and draft someone that can help sooner than later, so much the better. I think WCS falls into that category. He has played three years of college ball, and is ready to go defensively. His offense may or may not become an attribute, but I admire his confidence.

By the same token, I don't have a problem taking a flyer on Porzingis or Hezonja. But everyone needs to understand, they're both players of the future more than they are the now. I have watched a ton of film on Mudiay, and after watching Russell all year long at Ohio St. I'd take Russell ten times out of ten over Mudiay. Just not sold on Mudiay. He kind of looks like Tyreke Evans light. His shot looks better form wise, but Tyreke has better handles, and is a much better finisher. But hey, I could be wrong. As for Kaminsky, I certainly never suggested we take him at six. My comments were in general. I do like him and think he's going to surprise some people. Ironically, Kaminsky is one of those players that isn't a project. He comes packaged and ready to go. Whatever that means.

To your response on Mudiay, how do you like him? Comparing his play to Chnia and in HS/US camps, it's different. For ex, in the US he looked much more comfortable passing and creating, while in China he hesitant and forced it a bit. Will his playmaking be a lot better in the NBA? He'll have a better language communication with his teammates then he did in the CBA. Where do you think he falls in between in terms of his playmaking ability?

 

[kingsfan101]

If defense is truly what your looking for, then WCS is your guy. He is the best defensive player in the entire draft. As or Winslow, if he was an inch and a half taller, I'd be all over him. But he was 6'4.5" in his bare feet. And through some miracle, somehow he found shoes that added two inches to his height, making him 6'6.5". Which is borderline tall enough to play the SF position. I had Winslow and Stanley Johnson dead even on my list all year long, and I still do. I realize that Winslow shot the ball well in the tournament, but so did some kid named Derrick Williams and he was actually legit size. Don't get me wrong, I think Winslow will be a good NBA player, but nothing is guaranteed just because we wish it so.

To say that we don't need offensive players is just as ridiculous as saying we don't need defensive players. What we need are complete basketball players that can play both ends of the court. This isn't a war between defense and offense. It's not an either or. It's not as though you can't have both.

When I say we don't need offensive players, I mean those whose calling card is offense. I actually listed several attributes on that side of the court for both Kawhi and Iggy, and said that I see some of the same in Winslow. Specifically, I mentioned ability to spread the floor, finishing well around the rim, and not needing the ball to be effective. If you read my post in full, I'm not suggesting that we need players who don't play offense. Quite the opposite in fact. Just that, that should not be the primary focus.

While everyone loves guys who are great defensive players, if they are bad offensively, they can really hurt their team, as teams can leave him to double team. This is the reason that while I love Tony Allen, I feel that Bowen helped his team a little bit more, since he helped spread the floor, and you couldn't cheat off of him on the three point line. This is the same reason Leonard and Iggy are so valuable.

As for Winslow, I understand the concern. However, I think we refuse to accept that the league has been getting smaller and quicker (probably we are reluctant to admit it), and Winslow can play SF in the NBA. How many SFs in the West can easily shoot over him? Plus, he is strong enough to prevent most of them from establishing good post position, or muscle him down.

Perhaps some of the other candidates that might be available are better than him. I don't watch even a fraction of college BB as you do, so maybe I'm wrong. However, based on what I've seen, I hope we pick him, instead of trading down, picking some other guy, and see Winslow become a star somewhere else. Maybe I'm giving too much credit to a guy who is not even in the NBA yet. However, I think the kid has a chance to be really really good, and I hope he does that in a Kings jersey.

 

[kingsboi]

I'm not really understanding the Kaminsky talk here...this team needs defense and a lot of it. It's time to change the identity, the Kings have always been known as a team that can score but can't stop anybody from scoring...I'd like to see Vlade establish a defensive culture here, once and for all.