Kings Pre-draft Workouts
- Thread starter RichieInRocklin
- Start date
Point is, if we're only drafting players who worked out for us then our odds of getting this draft right are very low. If ever there were a year to disregard the importance of workouts, this is the year. Myles Turner was ESPN's #2 ranked player in this class. He's a 7 foot teenager with a 9'4" standing reach who can shoot from outside or post up and was one of the best shotblockers in the country as a freshman. Jahlil Okafor couldn't get a basket over him in the McDonald's All Star game last year. We should probably take a look at that guy. Johnson and Winslow might not be consensus top 6 picks, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve a closer look. Giannis Antetokounmpo was the 15th pick in 2013. Andre Drummond was the 9th pick in 2012. Klay Thompson and Kawhi Leonard went 11th and 15th in 2011. Paul George was the 10th pick in 2010. Consensus means nothing -- there will probably be an elite player drafted 6th or lower this year and I really want us to draft that player. I don't really care about the workouts personally, but I would hope our pool of possible candidates at #6 is a lot bigger than just Cauley-Stein, Kaminsky, and Payne.
Best player available is always the way to go. That said, if we draft a defensively suspect SG for the third time in five years (4 out of 5 if you think this applies to McLemore too) I'm probably going to have a mental breakdown. I have a very hard time believing an athletic shooter with lax effort on defense is the 6th best player in the draft.
Sam Dekker and others coming in....
https://twitter.com/news10sean/status/611329602808619008
Maybe we are looking at dealing down or a current young to get a later 1st.....I do like Dekker but certainly not at 6
https://twitter.com/news10sean/status/611329602808619008
Maybe we are looking at dealing down or a current young to get a later 1st.....I do like Dekker but certainly not at 6
Probably should note that "others" here includes Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, a relatively impressive defensive SF, but a bit undersized with little offensive game.
I would not dismiss the idea that we might deal a current young player to get a later 1st. For instance, if we do like Hezonja and end up drafting him, it would be tough to maintain him and Ben and Sauce on the same squad. We'd probably have to trade one of our current SGs, but if we were sending one of them for a pick we'd have to insist at least on a pick in that 12-20 range. If you said Ben or Nik for Dekker, I could see it. I see Dekker as kind of a more athletic Ryan Anderson - a lot of people see him as a three but I really think he's better suited for the stretch four. He can guard in the post, he has a few post moves, he can step out for a three...
Just to sort of spitball a starting point:
Collison/McCallum
Hezonja/(Ben or Nik)
Gay/(Casspi FA)
JT/Dekker/Landry
Cuz/(JT)/Moreland
If nothing else that team would have a ton of shooting.
I would not dismiss the idea that we might deal a current young player to get a later 1st. For instance, if we do like Hezonja and end up drafting him, it would be tough to maintain him and Ben and Sauce on the same squad. We'd probably have to trade one of our current SGs, but if we were sending one of them for a pick we'd have to insist at least on a pick in that 12-20 range. If you said Ben or Nik for Dekker, I could see it. I see Dekker as kind of a more athletic Ryan Anderson - a lot of people see him as a three but I really think he's better suited for the stretch four. He can guard in the post, he has a few post moves, he can step out for a three...
Just to sort of spitball a starting point:
Collison/McCallum
Hezonja/(Ben or Nik)
Gay/(Casspi FA)
JT/Dekker/Landry
Cuz/(JT)/Moreland
If nothing else that team would have a ton of shooting.
I think they are just covering their options as best they can in a trade down scenario. Maybe you're able to get one or two vet pieces in a trade down scenario and you bring in a guy like RHJ, who is a pretty safe pick as a lock down wing defender that is ultra athletic, if he can develop a spot shot he could be a starter, if not he will be a rotation player in the league.
Also if they are bringing in Dekker and RHJ it tells me Vlade is very much open to adding another wing. Winslow and Hezonja very much in play at 6.
Also if they are bringing in Dekker and RHJ it tells me Vlade is very much open to adding another wing. Winslow and Hezonja very much in play at 6.
May be so many things from another attempt to disguise Kings' intentions to genuine desire to get out of #6.
Kings are not exactly high on a list of workout destinations for guys outside of lottery.
Dallas is apparently looking into dumping Felton using #21. Maybe Kings look into NBA burger king as a stop gap backup PG, while also getting an asset.
Outside of Sam and Rondae there's middling stretch 4, who would be lucky to play basketball in some minor European league, and a couple of fringe D-League level guards, who have some playmaking, but struggle to shoot. Caffey, Staten and Dukan are clearly there to assist evaluating. I don't even see a Summer league invite among them.
Kings are not exactly high on a list of workout destinations for guys outside of lottery.
Dallas is apparently looking into dumping Felton using #21. Maybe Kings look into NBA burger king as a stop gap backup PG, while also getting an asset.
Outside of Sam and Rondae there's middling stretch 4, who would be lucky to play basketball in some minor European league, and a couple of fringe D-League level guards, who have some playmaking, but struggle to shoot. Caffey, Staten and Dukan are clearly there to assist evaluating. I don't even see a Summer league invite among them.
Barnes, Thompson and Hezonja were all about the same age entering the draft (20, 21, 20) and while Barnes is a little over an inch taller than Thompson (and I believe an inch or so taller than Hezonja) the big difference is that Barnes weighed 228 lbs. Thompson was 206 lbs and Hezonja is listed at 200 lbs.*
Klay Thompson played SF his first season but his game really took off when Ellis was traded and he moved to the SG with Curry at PG. Now instead of being small and slight for their positions they were bigger than average. That's a huge thing. So while I think Hezonja can definitely play some SF I think his ideal spot is at SG.
* Something seems off to me about Hezonja's measurements. I'm guessing it's his height. but he doesn't looke 6'8" 200 to me. Either he's not that tall or he's gained a few pounds since that measurement.
Klay Thompson played SF his first season but his game really took off when Ellis was traded and he moved to the SG with Curry at PG. Now instead of being small and slight for their positions they were bigger than average. That's a huge thing. So while I think Hezonja can definitely play some SF I think his ideal spot is at SG.
* Something seems off to me about Hezonja's measurements. I'm guessing it's his height. but he doesn't looke 6'8" 200 to me. Either he's not that tall or he's gained a few pounds since that measurement.
Barnes is listed at 6'8 as is Hezonja.
Hezonja is actually listed at 218 on Barcelona's roster page.
I honestly don't think 2-3 matters all that much because now, it's become almost the same. If he were to play "SF", we wouldn't force him to do anything out of the norm. It would be the same as if he were playing "SG". The only thing that really matters is defense. Can he guard the 3? He certainly can.
Hezonja is actually listed at 218 on Barcelona's roster page.
I honestly don't think 2-3 matters all that much because now, it's become almost the same. If he were to play "SF", we wouldn't force him to do anything out of the norm. It would be the same as if he were playing "SG". The only thing that really matters is defense. Can he guard the 3? He certainly can.
Its hardly just an additive. It might be the single most important offensive trait a guy can have. It changes everything.
And yes, if you can handle, you can play down a position. In fact Hezonja can handle, shoot, good athlete. There's really nothing there to stop him from playing guard except possibly lateral quickness on defense, and that I would have to see against top competition.
And yes, if you can handle, you can play down a position. In fact Hezonja can handle, shoot, good athlete. There's really nothing there to stop him from playing guard except possibly lateral quickness on defense, and that I would have to see against top competition.
I agree to a large extent. And if the Kings draft him and he ends up being as good as hoped then yes he could spell Rudy or play SF when Rudy moves to PF. And of course he could play SG. That's a nice bit of positional versatility between he and Gay. But what I'd like to see most often is an athletic 6'7" SG and an athletic, 6'8" long armed SF who are physically dominant in addition to being skilled offensively.
This is of course, my bias. To my way of thinking I'd rather have a guy play the smallest position he can adequately guard and perform at offensively. It's why I wanted Tyreke at PG. It's why I like Klay Thompson at SG more than SF. It's what makes DeAngelo a possibly special player at PG but maybe just a good one at SG. And it's a big reason why people are excited by Mudiay. I'll always take the physical advantage when it's there.
I know the turning point for the Warriors championship run was going small but the reality is that they did that to match up with a very depleted Cavs team that was often forced to go small. And because their bigs (Thompson and Mozgov) aren't tremendous post threats. Somehow I don't think they'd use that lineup against the Kings with Gay and Cousins as the main scoring threats.
I think Brick's point is that the fact that he has a handle means he CAN be a SG. Not that he has to be. A shooting guard without a handle is at best a 3&D starter but is more often relegated to being a bench role player. It (along with demeanor) is what is capping McLemore's ceiling at the moment.
This is of course, my bias. To my way of thinking I'd rather have a guy play the smallest position he can adequately guard and perform at offensively. It's why I wanted Tyreke at PG. It's why I like Klay Thompson at SG more than SF. It's what makes DeAngelo a possibly special player at PG but maybe just a good one at SG. And it's a big reason why people are excited by Mudiay. I'll always take the physical advantage when it's there.
I know the turning point for the Warriors championship run was going small but the reality is that they did that to match up with a very depleted Cavs team that was often forced to go small. And because their bigs (Thompson and Mozgov) aren't tremendous post threats. Somehow I don't think they'd use that lineup against the Kings with Gay and Cousins as the main scoring threats.
I think Brick's point is that the fact that he has a handle means he CAN be a SG. Not that he has to be. A shooting guard without a handle is at best a 3&D starter but is more often relegated to being a bench role player. It (along with demeanor) is what is capping McLemore's ceiling at the moment.
Whether Hezonja is more of a SG or SF isn't really relevant to me. Let's just call him a wing player. It was the "defensively suspect" part of the equation that accounts for my disapproval. Because if Hezonja is an elite athlete who can shoot the lights out, handle the ball pretty well for his size, and occasionally competes on defense than he's just the bigger, taller version of Jimmer Fredette (shooter, ballhandler, playmaker, defensive question mark) or Nik Stuaskas (shooter, ballhandler, playmaker, defensive question mark). I know that Jimmer was drafted by Petrie and Nik was drafted by Vivek/Mullin/D'Alessandro but how many times do you need to repeat the same mistake before you try something new?
I don't want another elite "athlete" or "shooter" in the top half of the lottery, I want a basketball player. And to be a basketball player you need two things: (1) to compete hard every night on both ends of the court and (2) to be physically gifted enough to play your position against other NBA athletes. There are roles for other types of players, but those guys are specialists. I don't care how well a guy shoots the ball, I'll take a basketball player over a specialist every time.
I don't want another elite "athlete" or "shooter" in the top half of the lottery, I want a basketball player. And to be a basketball player you need two things: (1) to compete hard every night on both ends of the court and (2) to be physically gifted enough to play your position against other NBA athletes. There are roles for other types of players, but those guys are specialists. I don't care how well a guy shoots the ball, I'll take a basketball player over a specialist every time.
Hezonja isn't top of my list but your post really doesn't apply to him. Even mentioning Jimmer in the same breath as Hezonja is weird, they're nothing alike. Hezonja is like a bigger, more athletic Nik with more confidence and better defense. He's a very good prospect and is certainly a basketball player with multiple skills, not just a shooter.
Don't have one.
If I did Mudiay wouldn't be at the top however.
My guiding star is come in and be as close to guaranteed as possible for a rookie to produce THIS YEAR. Anybody that can do that is welcome., including somebody a trade. The riskier and longer term the investment, the more I say "foolish!".
If I did Mudiay wouldn't be at the top however.
My guiding star is come in and be as close to guaranteed as possible for a rookie to produce THIS YEAR. Anybody that can do that is welcome., including somebody a trade. The riskier and longer term the investment, the more I say "foolish!".
Don't have one.
If I did Mudiay wouldn't be at the top however. My guiding star is come in and be as close to guaranteed as possible for a rookie to produce THIS YEAR. Anybody that can do that is welcome., including somebody a trade. The riskier and longer term the investment, the more I say "foolish!".
If I did Mudiay wouldn't be at the top however.
My guiding star is come in and be as close to guaranteed as possible for a rookie to produce THIS YEAR. Anybody that can do that is welcome., including somebody a trade. The riskier and longer term the investment, the more I say "foolish!".
The only guy that deserves to be picked around #6 that some extra years of experience is Cauley-Stein, but I don't think he's as much of a sure thing as a lot of people believe. His game is already limited and he needs to put on some serious weight to complete the way he does at the NBA level. His main skills are rebounding, shot blocking, and defense. I expect his rebounding on both ends of the floor as well as his post defense to really decline until he puts more weight on. So other than shot blocking and defending the pick and roll, which is important I admit, there are a lot of holes in his game.
Maybe a foreign player with professional experience is better, perhaps the competition is better in Europe than it is in college. I believe Porzingis will be gone, but Hezonja does have the skills and confidence that could be a welcome sign to a team like ours. The potential issue there though could be too much confidence, Casspi had a lot of confidence when he first came here too, but couldn't back it up and it was part of the reason he was let go. Although I do think Hezonja has much more game than Casspi did.
James Ham @James_Ham 13m13 minutes ago
Kings announce a Monday pre-draft workout with Frank Kaminsky, Askia Booker, T.J. McConnell and Brad Waldow.
Kings announce a Monday pre-draft workout with Frank Kaminsky, Askia Booker, T.J. McConnell and Brad Waldow.