Fire PDA!

[VF21]

That's funny because for what it's worth (also nothing), both of them have the most accurate assessment of this situation of anyone on this site. Just my .02.

I guess those of us that aren't will to blindly accept the 'plan' of the new FO are just bad fans...

Really? Are those the only two options? A lot of this stuff all boils down to people taking extreme positions at both ends of the spectrum and leaving the majority of fans lost somewhere in the middle. And, if you wade through all the posts of the past couple of days, a truly herculean task, you'll see a lot of people saying pretty much the same thing.

All a lot of us would like is just a little dialing down of the rhetoric. A little less snark, a little less smug condescending hyperbole, a little less "you can't be patient and be a real fan," stuff (or the opposite).

As Barack Obama once said, "We can disagree without being disagreeable." (Not to make this about politics in any way, shape or form. I just like the quote.)

 

[rainmaker]

I gotta agree with Jamal here, you made it pretty clear that you thought what Dave said was wrong. If you didn't have a problem with it, why say "Stay
classy Dave?"

I do have a problem with him attempting to define what a true fan is on twitter, then posting kings fans posts as evidence of what a true fan isn't. And, I called him on it.

Doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to do so.

 

[The_Jamal]

Ah, you'd rather I don't disagree.

You like following me around, lol.

Absolutely. Who else am I going to argue with on this site?

And I wouldn't say Dave is trying to define what a "fan" is at all. He's just upset that fans are already jumping ship 8 days into the new regime.

 

[carmichaeldave]

Astute observation. Since you're into defining real fans on twitter, I'd say a real fan is someone willing to go beyond putting blind faith into any and every move this FO makes. A real fan is someone who cares enough to analyze the pros and cons of moves and potential moves. A real fan actually applies a little more thought into transactions of his/her team than, arguing to be patient and the "sky is falling" strawman crap counter rebuttal.

If you can support a single one of these moves without the stance that they simply require patience and/or be grateful Vivek saved the team, I'll be impressed. Remember Smart, Hayes, Salmons, Outlaw, trading Beno, TRob, signing Brooks? All we needed was patience then too, even though a number of us knew they were poor moves. When you and Napear have backed every move made the last few years and preached patience, you lose credibility when using that same argument once again.

Yes, free country and all.

Straw man! There it is. Love that saying. Popular and all.

Not defining real fans. Defining what my OPINION of a real fan is. And as I always say, I'm as full of crap as you.

No matter what, a real fan is someone passionately engaged. Or not. Fans define themselves. But I believe some are flat out embarrassing. You fall into that category. It's your right to be embarrassing to me if you wish.

Ready to be impressed? Here:

THE SEASON HASN'T STARTED

THE ROSTER MAY IN FACT NOT BE COMPLETE

Yes, I yelled so you could hear me better.

And me and Napear? That's rich.

What you are implying is that I have constantly defended the Kings and their moves. I believe a quick google search or my W-2 from last year will simply tell you that your statement is incorrect.

But in this case, a long war is now over. A new regime is here. I for one will choose to give them a chance and trust their acumen over yours, Brick's, and of course my own.

Notice I am not posting stats and trying to justify each move, because I can't. That's the point you keep obtusely rolling over. I am not jumping for joy at any of these moves.

What I am doing is allowing these guys to try and undo a TWENTY EIGHT WIN TEAM AND THE MOST TOXIC CULTURE IN PERHAPS ALL OF SPORTS. I will give them a slight grace period.

Doesn't make me right, but it makes me....well...me. And you will and have every right to be...you. I just disagree. As do you.

I'm guessing you are not impressed.

 

[SacTownKid]

She's in a bad position as a public facing wing of Vivek and co especially since she just knows enough basketball to try to argue.

I feel bad for her. It shouldn't be her job to defend the FO moves - that should fall on PDA - but she's accessible.

That said, the "are you a season ticket holder" bit IS insulting. So is Carmichael Dave telling people to "STFU" because the team was nearly gone. Both are ways of not having to actually defend bad basketball moves by deflecting.

No kidding? "Saved them for you?" What? If I were her I'd watch my step. Twitter has caused more than a few job losses I'm sure.

 

[rainmaker]

There you go again screaming your superiority to the world. This "real fan" is utter nonsense. A fan is someone who supports their team in any capacity they wish. Real fan. Please

Dave already said Monta would be a bad move for the Kings. The difference is he's going to wait for some NBA basketball before lining up with pitchforks in front of PDA's house. Who knows, maybe Monta-Cousins becomes the next great duo in the NBA? It's not likely, but can you tell me with 100% certainty it won't be? No

Can you read? Seriously, can you even follow along?

Dave brought up what a real fan is, I just responded. And here's more of your strawman crap, showing up at PDA's house with pitchforks.

 

[Section 101]

Really? Are those the only two options? A lot of this stuff all boils down to people taking extreme positions at both ends of the spectrum and leaving the majority of fans lost somewhere in the middle. And, if you wade through all the posts of the past couple of days, a truly herculean task, you'll see a lot of people saying pretty much the same thing.

All a lot of us would like is just a little dialing down of the rhetoric. A little less snark, a little less smug condescending hyperbole, a little less "you can't be patient and be a real fan," stuff (or the opposite).

As Barack Obama once said, "We can disagree without being disagreeable." (Not to make this about politics in any way, shape or form. I just like the quote.)

The Evans fanatics are 100x worse now than after the 09 draft compared to the people who wanted Rubio.

 

[Kingfanpaul]

Grace period....I like that.

We can certainly be upset with the moves and discuss them to no end, but I think Vivek and Co. at least deserves a grace period.

 

[VF21]

The Evans fanatics are 100x worse now than after the 09 draft compared to the people who wanted Rubio.

I won't even bring up the Peja vs. Webber wars, because a lot of people around here are way too young to remember them.

 

[Padrino]

I won't even bring up the Peja vs. Webber wars, because a lot of people around here are way too young to remember them.

now you're making me feel old...

 

[Section 101]

now you're making me feel old...

It's the beard.

 

[rainmaker]

Straw man! There it is. Love that saying. Popular and all.

So you have the inability to tell a good move from a bad move before the end result smacks you in the face sometime in Jan?

And you have a problem with those who can already tell we're not building our roster intelligently, instead rather foolishly.

Then your defense is we haven't played a game yet. Whatever grace period you manufactured on your own for yourself doesn't coincide with the grace period others might have. And actually, I'd argue you're combining separate topics, as your grace period stems from Vivek saving the team, which is not connected in any way to PDA's transactions and this heavily rumored Monta transaction.

Then, in your opinion, and yes, you're entitled to have an opinion, I just disagree with it, those not willing just to sit back and wait are not true Kings fans.

No Dave, I'm not impressed. Your reasoning basically is, because Vivek bought the team and we should be grateful, which we are, that PDA himself shouldn't be judged on any of these moves and you've come up with your own personal time frame for having an opinion on his moves which some like myself don't share. Unfortunately for you, fans have opinions on the moves their GM's make.

 

[Uk kings fan]

well i dont think anyone expected the "dream team" (as i called them on a thread a few weeks ago) to split the fans so fast .... however i think i am legitimately worried about PDA's lack of experience and i think he has shown it in interviews so far and deffo in his trades. My only concern currently is that he might be targeted for Cuz by other GM's and accept it to make his first blockbuster trade

Guys just be thankful you don't have relegation and a draft. Because if it all goes wrong then you can start again

 

[SacTownKid]

Grace period....I like that.

We can certainly be upset with the moves and discuss them to no end, but I think Vivek and Co. at least deserves a grace period.

I don't have a problem with Vivek at all, just hope he knows the path he's being led down right now could end up costing him some serious cash and headaches in time. We've seen these types of moves before and the result is what he's dealing with right now.

With that said, they are at least trying and who knows what their end result is. Just have to have faith in Viveks abilities to choose his brain trust.

 

[The_Jamal]

Can you read? Seriously, can you even follow along?

Dave brought up what a real fan is, I just responded. And here's more of your strawman crap, showing up at PDA's house with pitchforks.

And I bow at the petty insult portion of this discussion.

Carry on

P.S: Yes, I am capable of reading.

 

[Bricklayer]

https://twitter.com/lesliempr

I don't have or want a Twitter account either. But you can read twitter pages without one. You simply can't respond. Which is likely a good thing in my case.

Indeed.

Or was a good thing for her until I just reactivated my seldom used 2yr old account. Be interesting to see if my disgust here overcomes my intense distaste for arguing in 120 character characters or less.

 

[carmichaeldave]

So you have the inability to tell a good move from a bad move before the end result smacks you in the face sometime in Jan?

And you have a problem with those who can already tell we're not building our roster intelligently, instead rather foolishly.

Then your defense is we haven't played a game yet. Whatever grace period you manufactured on your own for yourself doesn't coincide with the grace period others might have. And actually, I'd argue you're combining separate topics, as your grace period stems from Vivek saving the team, which is not connected in any way to PDA's transactions and this heavily rumored Monta transaction.

Then, in your opinion, and yes, you're entitled to have an opinion, I just disagree with it, those not willing just to sit back and wait are not true Kings fans.

No Dave, I'm not impressed. You're reasoning basically is, because Vivek bought the team and we should be grateful, which we are, that PDA himself shouldn't be judged on any of these moves and you've come up with your own personal time frame for having an opinion on his moves which some like myself don't share. Unfortunately for you, fans have opinions on the moves their GM's make.

Amazing. I apologize, I take it all back. Really.

My respect for you has quadrupled.

For you to donate all the time and passion that you have, to drop 10,000 posts on a fan site- all while turning down all the offers you've had to be an NBA general manager? Phenomenal.

You must have a huge bank account, because I hear those jobs pay well.

I on the other hand do not have your knowledge or foresight. Unlike you, I do not have better knowledge or instincts than someone like PDA who has worked in NBA circles for a long time.

I also do not, like you, own one of those handy time machines, so I can't fast forward two years to see we are a 20 win team.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe PDA is the second coming of Kahn's even dumber brother. You may be spot on with every assessment you've made. The difference?

I will wait and see what the plan is. I will watch for improvement. I will see if this guy justifies my faith in Vivek. YES, Vivek. Because the ONLY implication here is that Vivek is so colossally stupid, that he would ridiculously overpay for this franchise, and then go out and hire some imbecile to ruin his team and cost him his fanbase, all while he idly sits by and reads the TIBCO news letter.

Preach on O Guru. You've won me over.

 

[dude12]

This is a public site, it's not like he is tweeting private info.

Also, I sorta agree with him. You guys have absolutely gone berserker. I am seriously considering setting up an account at STR because of all this. I've been here for a decade, and this is just nuts.

I'm not happy about Landry, I also don't want Monta. But if you read between the lines of Leslies tweets, we don't have trade-able assets. Definitely not to the level our fans think.

So debate the moves, but take it down a notch.

You said it.....not to the level our fans think. With some of the pissing and moaning, it's like the FO just broke up a playoff team in its prime instead of a perennial losing team that can't even get to 30 wins.......and it's not so much the disagreement with the moves, it's the venom directed at the FO....some of the stuff being spewed is unbelievably bad and in poor taste.

 

[Agent23]

Amazing. I apologize, I take it all back. Really.

My respect for you has quadrupled.

For you to donate all the time and passion that you have, to drop 10,000 posts on a fan site- all while turning down all the offers you've had to be an NBA general manager? Phenomenal.

You must have a huge bank account, because I hear those jobs pay well.

I on the other hand do not have your knowledge or foresight. Unlike you, I do not have better knowledge or instincts than someone like PDA who has worked in NBA circles for a long time.

I also do not, like you, own one of those handy time machines, so I can't fast forward two years to see we are a 20 win team.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe PDA is the second coming of Kahn's even dumber brother. You may be spot on with every assessment you've made. The difference?

I will wait and see what the plan is. I will watch for improvement. I will see if this guy justifies my faith in Vivek. YES, Vivek. Because the ONLY implication here is that Vivek is so colossally stupid, that he would ridiculously overpay for this franchise, and then go out and hire some imbecile to ruin his team and cost him his fanbase, all while he idly sits by and reads the TIBCO news letter.

Preach on O Guru. You've won me over.

I think you and Rainmaker aren't really reading each other's posts clearly lol. You guys are interpreting each others posts on the extreme side of things, when in reality, you guys are actually closer to the middle than you think. It's almost feels like the Republican/Democratic debates.

 

[Agent23]

You said it.....not to the level our fans think. With some of the pissing and moaning, it's like the FO just broke up a playoff team in its prime instead of a perennial losing team that can't even get to 30 wins.......and it's not so much the disagreement with the moves, it's the venom directed at the FO....some of the stuff being spewed is unbelievably bad and in poor taste.

People are mad because we are bringing in pieces that don't fit in with core of this team and at such high prices (of course Monta hasn't signed yet). Most of us are mad because we had a core of players (Evans/McLemore/Cousins) that hasn't been given a chance to see if it'll work with new coaching. Now we are just adding middling talent in hopes that it may work. Hey, we can all be wrong and it may work. I'll continue to be irate about it till proven otherwise.

 

[Sooty]

So how dry is that lease agreement ink between the city and the new ownership group?

 

[spudfan]

I am remembering why I don't listen to talk radio folks. Lots of words, little substance.

 

[rainmaker]

You must have a huge bank account, because I hear those jobs pay well.

I on the other hand do not have your knowledge or foresight. Unlike you, I do not have better knowledge or instincts than someone like PDA who has worked in NBA circles for a long time.

Your reply is largely hyperbole which doesn't surprise me. Will say, running is NBA circles did a lot for the likes of the Maloofs, Theus, Muscleman, Westphal, Smart, Petrie, Kahn, Isaiah Thomas, Baylor, Layden, Unseld, Wittman, Rambis, among numerous others, didn't it?

Is that your argument, those running in NBA circles don't fail? Our previous regime had MORE NBA experience than the current. Sad reality is Vivek, PDA and Malone are all rookies at what they're doing, and they largely look like rookies up to this point.

 

[carmichaeldave]

Your reply is largely hyperbole which doesn't surprise me. Will say, running is NBA circles did a lot for the likes of the Maloofs, Theus, Muscleman, Westphal, Smart, Petrie, Kahn, Isaiah Thomas, Baylor, Layden, Unseld, Wittman, Rambis, among numerous others, didn't it?

Is that your argument, those running in NBA circles don't fail?

It's neat how you conveniently cut off the second half of my post, which addresses pretty much exactly what you retorted with. Internets is fun.

My guess is that you didn't read it, because why NOT argue and flame all afternoon?? We are totally making progress at changing each other's mind and stuff.



Postcount +

 

[rainmaker]

It's neat how you conveniently cut off the second half of my post, which addresses pretty much exactly what you retorted with. Internets is fun.

After you failed to reply to any of my points with anything but sarcasm, hyperbole and strawman arguments?

Internet is quite fun.

 

[Bricklayer]

\ Frankly, I don't believe the elite core of kingsfans.com know-it-alls have better NBA acumen than Vivek and Pete, no matter what your post count. I think reasonable people can disagree, but the tone of the attacks on PDA is not one of mutual respect and disagreement on approach or style. They are blistering attacks, calling the guy an idiot. I find it appalling.

Yes, because its well known that indian software magnates obviously have more basketball knowledge then let's say the several hundred former coaches and players on this board. Or the occasional Ivy League lawyer.

But no need to go after Vivek. You can bury your head in the sand, elevate basketball GMs to the level of professionals if you like, but its not a complex industry or endeavor. Its a made up league playing a made up game, with all the rules of both wide open to anyone who watches. David Kahn was a GM. Colangelo was a GM. Joe Axelson was a GM. Geoff Petrie was GM. Every terrible stupid move in NBA history was made by a GM. Every team that has ever blown its capspace, wasted its youth, ruined its chemistry or put together a mismatched roster has done so at the hands of a GM.

 

[carmichaeldave]

After you failed to reply to any of my points with anything but sarcasm, hyperbole and strawman arguments?

Internet is quite fun.

STRAWMAN!!! YAYYYY

I actually covered each point in the second half. The one you didn't quote. Now I know why you have 10k posts. This is a circle jerk. The saddest thing? I honestly believe you'd rather be right about Tyreke and these moves than be dead wrong and have them actually help this team.

E-cred>>>>Kings

And that, to me, is the worst kind of fan there is.

Again, that's just me being holier than thou and defining fans.


Grab the last word. Everyone looks dumb in an Internet fight, and I'm already dumb looking enough.

3,2,1

 

[carmichaeldave]

Yes, because its well known that indian software magnates obviously have more basketball knowledge then let's say the several hundred former coaches and players on this board. Or the occasional Ivy League lawyer.

But no need to go after Vivek. You can bury your head in the sand, elevate basketball GMs to the level of professionals if you like, but its not a complex industry or endeavor. Its a made up league playing a made up game, with all the rules of both wide open to anyone who watches. David Kahn was a GM. Colangelo was a GM. Joe Axelson was a GM. Geoff Petrie was GM. Every terrible stupid move in NBA history was made by a GM. Every team that has ever blown its capspace, wasted its youth, ruined its chemistry or put together a mismatched roster has done so at the hands of a GM.

And we have the benefit of hindsight with each example. This is shoot first, ask questions later at its finest. No need for patience or anything, because that would just make you a sycophant.

 

[carmichaeldave]

Yes, because its well known that indian software magnates obviously have more basketball knowledge then let's say the several hundred former coaches and players on this board. Or the occasional Ivy League lawyer.

But no need to go after Vivek. You can bury your head in the sand, elevate basketball GMs to the level of professionals if you like, but its not a complex industry or endeavor. Its a made up league playing a made up game, with all the rules of both wide open to anyone who watches. David Kahn was a GM. Colangelo was a GM. Joe Axelson was a GM. Geoff Petrie was GM. Every terrible stupid move in NBA history was made by a GM. Every team that has ever blown its capspace, wasted its youth, ruined its chemistry or put together a mismatched roster has done so at the hands of a GM.

I would also, and quite obviously add, that every phenomenal move filled with foresight was ALSO made by an NBA GM.

 

[funkykingston]

I am remembering why I don't listen to talk radio folks. Lots of words, little substance.

I'm fine with disagreement, but I think that's a low blow. I'm upset with the moves being made but we owe CD an enormous debt of gratitude for his part in saving the Kings. Disagree with what he says all you want, but he's a fan like everyone else. I think we can disagree without completely turning on one another.