What's happened to WCS?

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by Čarolija, Mar 25, 2017.

  1. Čarolija

    Čarolija Well-Known Member

    Willie Cauley-Stein

    4 rebounds in 27 minutes of game time!

    No other way to describe that other than PATHETIC!
    Blob, ESP47, Kingster and 2 others like this.
  2. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    And it's not like he's going up against a physical team either. Rebounding is the limiting condition of WCS, period.
    ppine likes this.
  3. twslam07

    twslam07 Well-Known Member

    It's a concern, but if it's still a problem next season, it might make sense to look to the 2018 draft for a starting caliber center. Ayton, Bamba, Carter, & Williams all seem like potential early picks next year that play C.

    I'm starting to like Fox & Isaac as my two draft choices this year (with Jawun Evans being my 2nd rounder). If we were to finish in the bottom 3 in 2018, we'd have a shot at drafting Ayton. Then you have this core moving forward:

    PG - Fox / Evans
    SG - Hield / Richardson
    SF - Isaac / Bogdanovic
    PF - Labissiere / Cauley-Stein
    C - Ayton / Papagiannis

    Now that would be a team with some serious potential, length, athleticism, and defense. With Joerger leading that group of youngsters, I would be very excited about that future.
    Bibby10AZ and Joshoua like this.
  4. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    Especially if we go Fox/Issac with Skal busting out next year center will have to be the drafted position
  5. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    I moved this out of the game thread. I found THIS THREAD from our old discussions. Looks like the prevailing opinion was that we were getting WCS for defense and were worried he wouldn't find a way to contribute on offense.
  6. OptimusRhyme

    OptimusRhyme Jive Turkey Contributor

    Look how long it took for Deandre Jordan to develop or Jermaine Oneal.. Theres no reason why WCS can't improve his rebounding.. He has the athleticism, size and length. Its Willies second year and we need to have patience with him. Let him find his rhythm.
  7. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    Eh... O'Neal began to develop almost as soon as he started getting minutes. Also, neither of those other guys were lottery picks, so I don't know how unfair it is to expect him to develop more quickly, unless you want to put all of the blame on Divac, for drafting him that high.
    kingjatt and Čarolija like this.
  8. Section 101

    Section 101 Well-Known Member

    Ok lets compare!!

    Jordan age 23. 8.3 Rebounds per game, 10.9 Rebounds per 36.
    WCS age 23. 3.6 Rebounds per game, 7.4 rebounds per 36.

    Jordans rebound numbers were low his first years due to limited minutes. WCS has declined this year in rebounding compared to last year.
  9. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    Well, now I feel the need to go the other way, and defend Cauley-Stein. When you're going to compare them by production by age, it should be acknowledged that, by the time DeAndre Jordan was twenty-three, he'd had twice as much access to NBA-caliber coaching, training and development as Cauley-Stein has had. Their experiences are not quite equivalent.
    lwc, Tetsujin, Čarolija and 2 others like this.
  10. Section 101

    Section 101 Well-Known Member

    So WCS should have been a dominant rebounder in college against less talented players than Jordan.
  11. jcassio

    jcassio Well-Known Member

    Yeah, his rebounding is disappointing so far, but I have hope that he will improve on that aspect of his game. But, I don't believe all good rebounders are born good rebounders. Looking at per minute rebounding stats over a period of years, some of our best rebounders have developed into our best rebounders. Some of them had to change their game to become better rebounders. For example, Patrick Ewing became a better rebounder when he stopped relying so much on his fall-away jumper (because it took him out of good rebounding position). Others become stronger rebounders once their bodies develop to the point where they can hold their rebounding position. It's kind of a romantic notion that good rebounders are born good rebounders - as if they never needed to go to school or college, or learn about values and work ethic. They just came from the womb a great rebounder! :rolleyes:
  12. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    You do know that Jordan only averaged six boards a game at A&M, right?
  13. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    Nothing has happened. He is just not a very good rebounder which is all on him. Maybe with time he will change his desire, as of now...it's much to be desired.
  14. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    Skal gets the same number of rebounds in 12 fewer minutes per game so far in March:
    • Skal 19.6 minutes 6.3 RPG
    • Willie 31.7 minutes 6.6 RPG
    That amounts to a whole quarter of extra play where Willie gets NO rebounds....PATHETIC is the word!
    ppine likes this.
  15. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    I've said in another thread that if he isn't rebounding, he needs to cover for that and block shots and play pick and roll defense to the point where he isn't looking like a deer.
  16. OptimusRhyme

    OptimusRhyme Jive Turkey Contributor

    Took him like 5 years to be able to be good enough for those minutes though.. He wasnt close to the player/rebounder he became later on in his career.. Bigs take forever to develop.

    Regardless, I dont think WCS needs to be a 12 RPG player for the Kings to succeed.. Skal and Papa both look like they'll be above average rebounders.. Hopefully our future SF can fill that role aswell.

    Willies got some unique skills that our other bigs dont have.. The passing and quickness/defensive versatility are huge for that position.
  17. Suicide King

    Suicide King Well-Known Member

    WCS was not known for his rebounding prowess when we drafted him. Im pretty sure coach Cal scouted him while he was playing football, indicating to me he had not devoted himself to basketball as early as most players.

    I am just as disappointed with the low rebounding numbers as anyone. However he is bringing a lot to the table as is, and twenty three is not too old to work on areas of your game going into your third or fourth season.
  18. gunks

    gunks Well-Known Member

    I'm hoping Joerger and Co can get his developer pointed in the right direction.

    His improvement on the offensive end is great, but when you're 7' tall and rebound like garbage. ..... maybe don't worry about drills to improve your handle or whatever.

    I still think he's a rotation player at the least, but dude needs to realize his defensive potential if he wants to be a long time starter, much less a star.

    Anyways, he's had several stinkers in a row, so we should be due for a good game..... well, maybe after we play The Clippers. DJ is gonna eat WCS alive.
    VF21 and Suicide King like this.
  19. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    This is not really true. O'Neal's minutes were a casualty of being behind a better player, Rasheed Wallace, until he was traded to Indiana. Wallace, ironically enough, was traded to Portland because his minutes in Washington were a casualty of being behind a better player, by the name of Chris Webber.
  20. OptimusRhyme

    OptimusRhyme Jive Turkey Contributor

    haha whatever, wasn't just Wallace. He also got beat out for minutes by Allstar Brian Grant, Grandpa Sabonis and Antonio Harvey(who)? ... Maybe Oneil was a bad Example.. Either way WCS is gonna be a good player.;):eek:
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  21. jpsls

    jpsls Active Member

    DeAndre Jordan played under Mike Dunleavy and Vinny Del Negro his first 5 seasons. I wouldn't go so far as saying he's had 2x as much access to NBA-caliber coaching.
  22. Semi

    Semi Active Member

    Not long ago there wasn't a person on this board that thought he could do anything on the offensive end but dunk the ball. There's no reason to believe he can't keep improving in all areas for many years. WCS is about the least of my concerns when it comes to the Kings' future.
  23. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    Mike Dunleavy > Mark Turgeon
    Vinny Del Negro > Mark Turgeon
    4 = 2x2

    Where is the lie?
  24. KingsFanGER

    KingsFanGER Well-Known Member

    Of course Willie can improve in all areas. What's concerning is, that rebounding and rim protection aren't related to basketball technique. You don't need actual basketball skills to rebound and to block shots. What you need is athleticism and Willie has that in the extreme. He is a world class athlete and extremely coordinated for a 7 footer. Well on top of that you need physicality, some basic understanding of boxing out and the defensive schemes of your team and most of all an aggressive mindset.
    And that's the problem. After 7 years of DMC people act like only an overly aggressive and emotional mindset can cause problems. But actually that's not the case. Being too timid and too laid back may be even more detrimental to a pro sports career and there isn't really any other viable explanation for Willie's troubles when rebounding the ball.
    Ron, Kingster and Suicide King like this.
  25. upinsmoke

    upinsmoke Well-Known Member

    I could not disagree more with this angle. It's absolutely a skill / technique.
  26. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    I agree with you about the 2018 draft and the possibility of getting a center in that draft. It also wouldn't be a bad thing to get a low priced FA or even a D-Leager center who isn't afraid of contact so that WCS is not "given" minutes, but instead he "earns" his minutes. If WCS had only a $100 in his pocket and he were paid by the number of rebounds he gets, I'd really like to know how much differently he would approach rebounding. It seems he's just not hungry enough to me.

    I'm really not very high on Isaac because from what I've seen he floats around too much; in that respect he does remind me somewhat of WCS.
    kingdivac likes this.
  27. Suicide King

    Suicide King Well-Known Member

    To me it is both. It is absolutely a skill or skills, some which can be taught or learned. Angles, trajectories, probability, boxing out. These are skills and knowledges that can be learned.

    However there is also the part that can not be taught. Maybe inspired. That is the WANT. This has to come from within oneself . This is where I wager Willie needs most improvement. Willie is a laid back guy. You cant just let the rebound come to you. This is how you get 4 rebounds in 30 minutes. You have to apply your knowledge and skills aforementioned with a burning FIRE to go after rebounds. To want that possesion for your team like each one could decide the game. Because they can.

    The coaching staff needs to work with Willie on the skills and knowledge side of it. Willie needs to dig deep within himself and light that fire to dominate the boards.

    Just my two coppers
    VF21 and upinsmoke like this.
  28. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    I think the it's a very safe assumption the coaching staff has been working with WCS on his rebounding, both in the film room and in drills. That leaves only one thing - "WANT TO."
    Suicide King likes this.
  29. jpsls

    jpsls Active Member

    I didn't say it was a lie, but it is misleading. Kentucky is a blue chip college basketball program, so it wouldn't surprise me if they had a training and conditioning staff that was on par with NBA teams. Calipari is former NBA coach at an elite program, so I don't think it's unreasonable to compare Jordan and WCS when they were the same age.
  30. Mr. S£im Citrus

    Mr. S£im Citrus That's right, I said it! Staff Member Contributor

    Kentucky is considered to be a "blue chip" college basketball program, with a lot of rich boosters... And they're nowhere close to the level of the lowliest NBA team.
    Telemachus likes this.

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