Look, you can like or dislike Karl, and I appreciate good solid criticism, but to think that a coach that coached in the NBA for 30 years doesn't know how to draw up plays, or design an offensive scheme, is just ridiculous. Personally, I'm glad that Karl is gone, but I respect him as a person and a coach. He just wasn't the right fit for this team, and he was doomed from the beginning because of all the drama that preceded his arrival.
Voisin: George Karl reflective after firing by Kings
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I think the point he was trying to make about the guards was that the three he mentioned were valued for their shooting, and none of the guards mentioned, including Rondo, were good defenders. That's what I got from it, and I don't disagree. The only reason that Anderson got any minutes at all was because Karl was looking for some that could play defense, and match up size wise. I grant you that I think he could have handled the rotations differently, and better, but I think he was spot on about the problem.
He does (did) know how to do those things...he simply didn't this year for whatever reason. That's all I'm trying to say. Of course you quote my post where I'm responding to snark with snark (where I'm also complimenting a legitimate postitive I saw from him this year, we seemed to always have a layup off the inbounds--that was good, and wasn't delegated to an assistant). Again the only defense Karl has had on this board are appeals to his past record, and I think that exemplifies the problem.
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He gave Rondo carte blanche to run the team as he saw fit. Of course Rondo loved it, and did put up some gaudy numbers. Unfortunately, that didn't lend itself to winning. But if were being honest, offense wasn't our problem. We scored enough points to win games. Our problem was stopping the other team from scoring points, and if you want to blame Karl for that, have at it. The worse defender on the team, in my humble opinion was Rondo, followed closely by Belinelli. Gay was hot and cold. He had some very good defensive games, and he was terrible in some others. Rondo and Gay were starters, so not sure what you could do about them, except try and hide their liabilities. If there was an attempt to do so, it failed.
Karls mistake in my opinion, was in sacrificing defense for offense. He didn't have the luxury of two way players that he could put on the floor. McLemore was an OK defender, and a hot and cold offensive player. You never knew what you were going to get on a nightly basis. Collison isn't a bad defender when asked to play the PG position, but unfortunately, he spent too much time at the SG position. Why? Well, because he ended up being a better offensive player than any of the other guards. But he couldn't guard Klay Thompson. There's no doubt that WCS should have gotten more minutes for defense alone, but Karl saw him as a one dimensional player, and a liability on offense. That was a mistake.
Casspi was a better defender than Gay, but are you going to start Casspi over Gay? Probably not. He probably felt the same way about Curry, who I think Karl liked. But Curry was a last minute add on to the team and on the cheapest contract. Do you give him more burn than much higher paid, and more experienced players? He thought no, but in retrospect, he'd probably do it different if he had a second chance. So while I agree that Karl made some bad decisions, I don't agree that he's mentally incapable. He just made some bad choices in a difficult situation. You don't have to hate the man to disagree with what he did.
And finally, you had the Karl/Cousins soap opera. In my opinion there's plenty of blame to go around, but I'm not going to retry the case again. There was no good answer, other than for one of the two to be gone. If the problem had been between Karl and McLemore, then there is no problem. If McLemore blew up in the locker room at Karl, in all likely hood he would have been suspended, or he would have sat on the bench for two or three games without seeing the floor. But when your best player and your head coach are at odds with one another, your doomed from the beginning, especially where neither side is going out of their way to communicate with the other. Its sad that it played out the way it did, and under different circumstances, maybe it would have worked. Or not!
Karls mistake in my opinion, was in sacrificing defense for offense. He didn't have the luxury of two way players that he could put on the floor. McLemore was an OK defender, and a hot and cold offensive player. You never knew what you were going to get on a nightly basis. Collison isn't a bad defender when asked to play the PG position, but unfortunately, he spent too much time at the SG position. Why? Well, because he ended up being a better offensive player than any of the other guards. But he couldn't guard Klay Thompson. There's no doubt that WCS should have gotten more minutes for defense alone, but Karl saw him as a one dimensional player, and a liability on offense. That was a mistake.
Casspi was a better defender than Gay, but are you going to start Casspi over Gay? Probably not. He probably felt the same way about Curry, who I think Karl liked. But Curry was a last minute add on to the team and on the cheapest contract. Do you give him more burn than much higher paid, and more experienced players? He thought no, but in retrospect, he'd probably do it different if he had a second chance. So while I agree that Karl made some bad decisions, I don't agree that he's mentally incapable. He just made some bad choices in a difficult situation. You don't have to hate the man to disagree with what he did.
And finally, you had the Karl/Cousins soap opera. In my opinion there's plenty of blame to go around, but I'm not going to retry the case again. There was no good answer, other than for one of the two to be gone. If the problem had been between Karl and McLemore, then there is no problem. If McLemore blew up in the locker room at Karl, in all likely hood he would have been suspended, or he would have sat on the bench for two or three games without seeing the floor. But when your best player and your head coach are at odds with one another, your doomed from the beginning, especially where neither side is going out of their way to communicate with the other. Its sad that it played out the way it did, and under different circumstances, maybe it would have worked. Or not!
I finally read the article and honestly I agreed with Karl a lot.
Not on his final point where he was obviously advocating trading Cousins to rebuild the team, but then, that's what started all the drama of this season in the first place.
But I agree that Gay & Cousins don't work. I agree that Rondo's defense was terrible. And I agree that a guard or two needed to be traded to try and balance the roster.
This team is not a different coach away from competing. There are lots of other changes required.
Not on his final point where he was obviously advocating trading Cousins to rebuild the team, but then, that's what started all the drama of this season in the first place.
But I agree that Gay & Cousins don't work. I agree that Rondo's defense was terrible. And I agree that a guard or two needed to be traded to try and balance the roster.
This team is not a different coach away from competing. There are lots of other changes required.
Competing for what? I think a different coach could add on a few more wins and perhaps get us into the playoffs. The big homerun is making a few trades (which is what I assume you were getting at) could make a huge difference. We'll see what filters out now that Vlade does not have to work in panic mode. He actually had a year of observation to think.
A different coach who actually stressed defense and used the roster correctly absolutely would have had this team in the playoffs or at least close to it. See, the Napear and Voison and Furillo smear campaign is working on usually astute forum members here. Those 3 keep banging the drum enough and people start drinking the Kool-Aid.
I'll keep saying it to help remind people. George Karl turned in one of the worst coaching performances of all time and no matter how he spins it in the Voison article, he failed in a big way. George Karl continues to work his BS. This is the same George Karl who won coach of the year and was immediately fired.
I'll keep saying it to help remind people. George Karl turned in one of the worst coaching performances of all time and no matter how he spins it in the Voison article, he failed in a big way. George Karl continues to work his BS. This is the same George Karl who won coach of the year and was immediately fired.
I didn't read the whole thing and won't because it's now old news. I heard many Karl interviews and was impressed at his world view of basketball. I even suggested that he had a lot to teach Boogie if Boogie was willing to listen. My problem with him is that as much as I appreciated what he said, it often didn't translate onto the court.
As usual poor George is focused on the wrong end of the floor.
The most recent truly All Time big was Tim Duncan. Duncan won 4 titles in 9 years between '99 and '07 with TS% of .541 .555 .536 .576 .564 .534 .540 .523 .579 (overall: .551). In those 9 years the Spurs won 37 (of 50 = 61gm pace), 53, 58, 58, 60, 57, 59, 63, 58 games.
Golly gee, how is that possible?
Well here's how its possible: in those 9 years the Spurs DRTG finished 1st, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 1st, 1st, 1st 2nd in the NBA. Gee, its a miracle! Who knew playing defense could make you a great team?
We had an above average offense this season. If we did not one thing better on offense, but made ourselves a Top 10 defensive team, we;'d be a threat to win 50 games, here, today. Its not rocket science. Except in Sacto, where despite the presence of Aerojet nobody seems to have any idea.
P.S. BTW
Total list of all guys to total 8366pts 4474rebs by age 25: Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Barkley, Duncan, Bellamy, Moses, McAdoo, Howard, Brand, Cousins, Bosh, Garnett. All but Brand will be in the HOF, and he got hurt (not that he belonged anyway).
Total list of every player in NBA history to average 26.9pts 11.5reb in a season: Kareem, Barkley, Baylor, Bellamy, Chamberlain, Hayes, Haywood, Malone, Malone, McAdoo, O'Neal, Olajuwon, Petit, Robertson, Cousins. Every single one of them in the HOF, or soon enough.
Those who do not know their history are...well, ignorant. You can't respect or accurately evaluate or predict anything without knowing what has come before.
The most recent truly All Time big was Tim Duncan. Duncan won 4 titles in 9 years between '99 and '07 with TS% of .541 .555 .536 .576 .564 .534 .540 .523 .579 (overall: .551). In those 9 years the Spurs won 37 (of 50 = 61gm pace), 53, 58, 58, 60, 57, 59, 63, 58 games.
Golly gee, how is that possible?
Well here's how its possible: in those 9 years the Spurs DRTG finished 1st, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 1st, 1st, 1st 2nd in the NBA. Gee, its a miracle! Who knew playing defense could make you a great team?
We had an above average offense this season. If we did not one thing better on offense, but made ourselves a Top 10 defensive team, we;'d be a threat to win 50 games, here, today. Its not rocket science. Except in Sacto, where despite the presence of Aerojet nobody seems to have any idea.
P.S. BTW
Total list of all guys to total 8366pts 4474rebs by age 25: Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Barkley, Duncan, Bellamy, Moses, McAdoo, Howard, Brand, Cousins, Bosh, Garnett. All but Brand will be in the HOF, and he got hurt (not that he belonged anyway).
Total list of every player in NBA history to average 26.9pts 11.5reb in a season: Kareem, Barkley, Baylor, Bellamy, Chamberlain, Hayes, Haywood, Malone, Malone, McAdoo, O'Neal, Olajuwon, Petit, Robertson, Cousins. Every single one of them in the HOF, or soon enough.
Those who do not know their history are...well, ignorant. You can't respect or accurately evaluate or predict anything without knowing what has come before.
Karl has knowledge, but its worthless without judgment or experience. And yes, He had absolutely not one ounce of experience with a great big before coming to Sacto, And his normal judgement problems, exacerbated by age and inflexibility, led him to first try to simply get rid of the awkward big thing so he could play more Denver runt ball, and then when that failed go ahead and institute a system with no regard to personnel or not being in a mile high stadium simply because he had gotten old, ossified, and ideological rather than being willing to learn and adapt. So now he's extinct like the dinosaurs Maybe we'll get some good crude out of him one day..
I disagree that Rudy and Cousins can't work together. I believe that either Rudy or Cousins should be on the floor at all times, though. We need a default post-up option for every possession. That means that Rudy should play the 3. He's terrible when he tries to use his speed advantage against 4s. But I agree with Karl's assessment of our guard situation. To be honest I would rather let Rondo go because his skills aren't a good fit... but I'm conflicted, DeMarcus' recent interview heavily implied that he is good pals with Rondo. I believe culture is incredibly important. And keep Caron.
Rudy and Cousins worked fine together before Karl got into town. Didn't Rudy play his career best ball in Sacramento with Mike Malone and then Corbin as his coach? He struggled under Karl because he was played more as a PF and he didn't touch the ball as often because Rondo was the one doing all the creating in the offence.
I don't think rondo-gay-DMC fit it's to crowded. Now take rondo out and add Ryan Anderson than we are talking. Gives Gay/DMC a lot of space to work with Anderson and Collison out there.
Also if we hired Messani we'd see Gay/DMC in the post like the Malone days. Was just watching a video where he says he wants his offense to have 20 post up shots.
Also if we hired Messani we'd see Gay/DMC in the post like the Malone days. Was just watching a video where he says he wants his offense to have 20 post up shots.
Rondo was passing the ball, but he wasn't sharing it: team was absolutely atrocious, when Rondo didn't have Boogie around to give the ball to.
As fo Rudy 1) in 2014 portion of previous season he did average almost 5 apg with around 1.8 A/TO ratio, 2) until everyone gave up under Corbin, Rudy managed to up his FTrate significantly, playing very aggressively, but Karl got him to be vanilla again, same he was in Toronto.
As fo Rudy 1) in 2014 portion of previous season he did average almost 5 apg with around 1.8 A/TO ratio, 2) until everyone gave up under Corbin, Rudy managed to up his FTrate significantly, playing very aggressively, but Karl got him to be vanilla again, same he was in Toronto.
I was one of the guys, who wanted Rondo on this team. I thought he could get it going on D again and that his ball dominance would help, because the playmaking duties wouldn't be on Cousins anymore, who is prone to making bad decisions with the ball. But I have to admit, that I was wrong. Rondo's ball dominance and playmaking ability sadly doesn't function as a replacement for an offensive system, which encourages players to share the ball. Rondo-Ball might still work, when you can hide him on D and still play great defense, but this never was the case in Sac. And with Cousins as an achilles heel for our pick&roll defense the chances to play great team defense, while having to hide a perimeter player, don't look very encouraging.
Here's a thought for you to ponder: during whole Michael Malone tenure Kings had ORtg of 106.7, and that includes quite a bit of Ray Mccallum or Greivis Vasques (with a smidge of Ramon Sessions) leadership. Kings this season with Rondo on the floor? 106.4. Yes, there were less assists, but somehow team got by.
P.S. Don't want Kings to even come close to Ryan Anderson.
P.S. Don't want Kings to even come close to Ryan Anderson.
Rudy played quite well at the beginning of the year before Malone was fired.
.547 TS% / .440 FG% / .365 3PT% / .878 FT% / 21.1 PPG / 6.4 RPG / 4.7 APG / 1.1 SPG / 0.5 BPG / 2.9 TOPG
Compare that to 2 WCF all stars last year (Green & Thompson):
.540 TS% / .443 FG% / .337 3PT% / .660 FT% / 11.7 PPG / 8.2 RPG / 3.7 APG / 1.6 SPG / 1.3 BPG / 1.7 TOPG
.591 TS% / .463 FG% / .439 3PT% / .879 FT% / 21.7 PPG / 3.2 RPG / 2.9 APG / 1.1 SPG / 0.8 BPG / 1.9 TOPG
Outside shot of Gay making the all star team? With the team actually accumulating wins that season, they wouldn't even have the "he's on a losing team" argument to throw around.
.547 TS% / .440 FG% / .365 3PT% / .878 FT% / 21.1 PPG / 6.4 RPG / 4.7 APG / 1.1 SPG / 0.5 BPG / 2.9 TOPG
Compare that to 2 WCF all stars last year (Green & Thompson):
.540 TS% / .443 FG% / .337 3PT% / .660 FT% / 11.7 PPG / 8.2 RPG / 3.7 APG / 1.6 SPG / 1.3 BPG / 1.7 TOPG
.591 TS% / .463 FG% / .439 3PT% / .879 FT% / 21.7 PPG / 3.2 RPG / 2.9 APG / 1.1 SPG / 0.8 BPG / 1.9 TOPG
Outside shot of Gay making the all star team? With the team actually accumulating wins that season, they wouldn't even have the "he's on a losing team" argument to throw around.
Summary of George Karl interview on The Dan LeBatard Show:
- Says he never got on the same page with Cousins.
- Never felt comfortable with the situation, felt that there wasn't a foundation strong enough to endure everything that happened.
- Asked what was the best example that 'this is not being managed well,' Says that the Kings want to win so badly that they don't realize that you have to have a plan, that too many people wanted to turn things around quickly, and it hasn't fit together.
- Says that, if the Kings would have kept him another year, and if he and Cousins could have come to a better place, that the Kings could have been a 40+ win team next season.
- Was cut off when he was trying to be diplomatic about the city and the team by LeBatard, who was agitating for him to say something more controversial.
- Co-host Jon "Stugotz" Weiner asked him whether he had any regrets, Karl said that he regrets saying that no-one was "untradeable." He says that he still believes it, but that he meant it more philosophically, rather than intending for it to be directed at Cousins.
- Acknowledged Cousins' "tremendous" improvement as a player, described him as an "interesting" talent. Says he hopes that Cousins makes the Olympic team.
- Stipulated that he may indeed be the wrong guy to coach a team with DeMarcus Cousins.
- States that the failures of the team were ultimately his fault, because he was the head coach.
- Asked to describe the confrontation between him and Cousins following the "untradeable" remark, Karl stated that there was never a direct confrontation about that remark specifically, just that it created a rift between them, where Cousins felt as though he could not trust him. Acknowledged that, as the head coach, it was his responsibility to build that trust.
- Asked, once he identified the lack of trust between him and Cousins, whether he thought Cousins should be traded, and whether he actually requested that Cousins be traded, Karl ducked the question, stated that his only thought during the process was that you should know the value of DeMarcus Cousins, that he never thought that Cousins would be traded "that summer."
- Asked where he was when Marc Stein reported that Karl was going to be fired "on Thursday" around the All-Star break, says he was still with the team in Philadelphia, and that he was expecting it. Says he is still surprised that they made him go through with coaching out the last thirty games or so.
- Asked whether he thought management supported him, Karl snorted on air, and avoided a direct answer. Said that when he arrived in Sacramento, that there were three things he thought had to be done: 1) He and Cousins had to get on the same page. He took time out at this point to mention that he went to Sacramento because of D'Alessandro, and that D'Alessandro was his comfort zone, so that when Divac was brought in, and D'Alessandro didn't know what his role was going to be going forward, that affected his relationships with management. 2) He needed to see what he had with Collison; said that he never really got a sense of what the team could have done with a healthy Collison as the starter... He didn't really state what the third thing was, just reiterated the mistake he made by saying that no one was untradeable.
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