Rebuilding without Cousins

K

KingMilz

Guest
#31
#31
bajaden said:
If I was thinking of trading Cousins to Boston, I would wait till June after the lottery order is known. That way you'd know exactly what your trading for.
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Wouldn't teams be way less likely to trade than considering it's only 1 year left on Cousins deal and they would actually know if they can draft a potential franchise changer since I've seen a number of people/sources saying this is a fairly stacked draft?

To me if they trade him till after June than it's probably for current young talent in the NBA/proven talent rather than a potential top 5 pick + young talent in a stacked draft
 
K

KingsFan80

Guest
#32
#32
Kingsfan23 said:
Hate to say it, but after this Sacramento Bee thing I think Cousins value is low enough to the point where it's not a legitimate option anymore - moving him for value. I can't even contemplate it now
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What do you think the Boston media is going to do to Cousins? Playing sports there is living in a fish bowl in a MAJOR city. They are 10000000 times worse
 
K

KingsFan80

Guest
#33
#33
funkykingston said:
I love Tatum's talent but he reminds me of Gay and Jabari Parker - lots of ISO play and midrange shots. Not super efficient either. Not a winning style in today's NBA. Can he extend his range?

Ball just had a near triple double against Ohio State. I have reservations about Ball (awful form on his shot which is also inconsistent and he's a below average athlete) but he's a force right now. Is he a smaller, quicker Kyle Anderson or is he a bigger Jason Kidd.

I love Jackson too. He's old for a freshman, not trrribly long for a 6'8" player and I wonder if he'll be a star or a high level role player but guys with his combination of talent and motor are good bets to succeed.

I definitely want to see Giles too. I think he can be great. I'm lukewarm on Bam though. Anunoby is the kid I'm keeping an eye on. If the Kings keep their pick (and don't trade Boogie) he could be around at that spot. He could be a 3&D guy but elite defensively and could maybe eventually be more.
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As a UK fan, Bam no no no no....only UK players worth talking about are Fox and Monk. Monk can shoot, Fox is a solid PG but Ball is better. FWIW NBADraft.net has us taking Monk, which would be an awesome pick
 
kupman

kupman

Starter
#38
#38
If we trade DMC, it needs to be a blockbuster kind of trade for established players - not prospects or draft picks. For example, the Bulls are not happy. It could be a DMC, Bmac for Butler and Lopez kind of deal. Or, DMC, Bmac and Omri for Butler, Lopez and McDermott.

We did not trade The a Rock away for draft picks. We should not be doing that here either.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#39
#39
KingMilz said:
Wouldn't teams be way less likely to trade than considering it's only 1 year left on Cousins deal and they would actually know if they can draft a potential franchise changer since I've seen a number of people/sources saying this is a fairly stacked draft?

To me if they trade him till after June than it's probably for current young talent in the NBA/proven talent rather than a potential top 5 pick + young talent in a stacked draft
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I think your theory might apply to a player like Gay, but not to a player like Cousins. Cousins is one of the best players in the NBA and only 26 years old. Those players are coveted and the price is high. Any team trading for him would have to believe that they can resign him. I'm sure that Danny Ainge believes that. However I agree there's always a bit of a risk to wait, and the odds of our 1st round pick this year being better, increase with trading Cousins sooner than later. So I see your point.

Ideally, you don't want to trade Cousins. But anytime you trade a player of his caliber, your taking a huge gamble that your going to get a similar player in return, immediately through the trade, or through the draft as a result of the trade. Unfortunately, there are no guarantee's. Vlade's career would be hanging on that kind of trade.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#40
#40
KingsFan80 said:
Can't score...that is why most draft projections have him at 16+. He is just like WCS on offense
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Well, that's not exactly true. I would agree that to some extent, the results are very similar, but he's a far better rebounder than Willie, much stronger and more physical than Willie, and has something that resembles a post game, which Willie never had his freshman year. Let me put it this way, if your comparing Bam as a freshman to Willie as a freshman, Bam is ahead of where Willie was. I think Bam has a lot of potential both offensively and defensively.

However, in this particular draft class, there are players more skilled than him, thus the lower ranking. So we agree on that part. But while Bam and Willie's skill sets are somewhat similar, they're two entirely different players.
 
K

KingsFan80

Guest
#41
#41
bajaden said:
Well, that's not exactly true. I would agree that to some extent, the results are very similar, but he's a far better rebounder than Willie, much stronger and more physical than Willie, and has something that resembles a post game, which Willie never had his freshman year. Let me put it this way, if your comparing Bam as a freshman to Willie as a freshman, Bam is ahead of where Willie was. I think Bam has a lot of potential both offensively and defensively.

However, in this particular draft class, there are players more skilled than him, thus the lower ranking. So we agree on that part. But while Bam and Willie's skill sets are somewhat similar, they're two entirely different players.
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I just meant his offensive game is like WCS not overall. They both have trouble scoring. I would say the three players out of this draft, that we need the most are 1) Ball 2) Fox 3) Monk. If we traded Cousins for top ten picks then this is the draft to do it
 
Kingsfan23

Kingsfan23

All-Star
#42
#42
Joshoua said:
Cousins stock doesn't drop cause he yelled at someone that's comical.
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Those were video excerpts of how he has treated the media to already go along with his bad rep. Organizations now have to worry about his media interaction as well. His rep was already in the dirt. At some point it's believing what you want
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#43
#43
kupman said:
If we trade DMC, it needs to be a blockbuster kind of trade for established players - not prospects or draft picks. For example, the Bulls are not happy. It could be a DMC, Bmac for Butler and Lopez kind of deal. Or, DMC, Bmac and Omri for Butler, Lopez and McDermott.

We did not trade The a Rock away for draft picks. We should not be doing that here either.
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If we don't get some high draft picks in this coming draft we would be shooting ourselves in the foot. Yes, I know the draft is always a bit of a gamble, but this particular draft is so loaded, that if your smart, a big if, I know, you could walk away with two franchise players. We have to build our own team and stop trying for shortcuts. The Warriors went from being a team compared to us, to world champions, and they turned it around in three years through the draft, and one wise trade (Bogut).

Portland is a contender and they did it through the draft. Utah is a contender now, and they did it through the draft. The T-Wolves are a team on the rise, and they did it through the draft and one big trade (Love). The Spurs built their team through the draft and continue to stay on top through the draft (Leonard) and timely trades. I'am sick to death with this, lets see who we can steal from another team, approach.

The Kings need to build for the future, and not the now. Look, if you can get back a very good veteran player and get the draft picks as well, fine! Go for it. But if not, then get salary cap filler that's expiring along with the picks and create cap space for the coming summer. Or do both!
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#44
#44
KingsFan80 said:
I just meant his offensive game is like WCS not overall. They both have trouble scoring. I would say the three players out of this draft, that we need the most are 1) Ball 2) Fox 3) Monk. If we traded Cousins for top ten picks then this is the draft to do it
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Well I would love any of those players, but if we were to luck out and end up with the first pick in the draft, then my first choice would Fultz. I love Monk, and after what he did yesterday against North Carolina (47 points including a hand in his face three at the end of the game to win the game), I love him even more. But do you pass on Isaac, Tatum, or Josh Jackson at SF if you have the chance, expecially when it appears we'll have a glut at SG next year? Tough choice!

I've seen every Kentucky game this year so far, and I'm wondering if anyone thinks Monk can play some PG. He's a very good passer, but I question if his handles are good enough for the PG position. Stay tuned..... Funny about Adebayo, last year he would have definitely been a top 10 pick, maybe top 5 based on potential and need. I think he'll be a good player in the NBA once he figures it out. But it's going to take a while, and who knows, he may opt to stay at Kentucky another year.
 
K

KingsFan80

Guest
#45
#45
bajaden said:
Well I would love any of those players, but if we were to luck out and end up with the first pick in the draft, then my first choice would Fultz. I love Monk, and after what he did yesterday against North Carolina (47 points including a hand in his face three at the end of the game to win the game), I love him even more. But do you pass on Isaac, Tatum, or Josh Jackson at SF if you have the chance, expecially when it appears we'll have a glut at SG next year? Tough choice!

I've seen every Kentucky game this year so far, and I'm wondering if anyone thinks Monk can play some PG. He's a very good passer, but I question if his handles are good enough for the PG position. Stay tuned..... Funny about Adebayo, last year he would have definitely been a top 10 pick, maybe top 5 based on potential and need. I think he'll be a good player in the NBA once he figures it out. But it's going to take a while, and who knows, he may opt to stay at Kentucky another year.
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I would say Monk could play PG but I am not sure you would want him to do that. His game is coming off screens for jump shots. We do have a lot of SG but my opinion, if Monk is there you take him and worry about the rest later. He is a good player. This is assuming we finish with the 9 or 10th pick in the Draft. If we trade cousins and get higher picks, then yeah tons of options
 
Telemachus

Telemachus

Starter
#46
#46
Kingsfan23 said:
Those were video excerpts of how he has treated the media to already go along with his bad rep. Organizations now have to worry about his media interaction as well. His rep was already in the dirt. At some point it's believing what you want
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And yet (oddly enough), the National narrative on this has been mostly negative towards the Sacramento Bee. The perception of Cousins doesn't seem to have been affected all that much, if at all.
 
K

KingsFan80

Guest
#47
#47
Telemachus said:
And yet (oddly enough), the National narrative on this has been mostly negative towards the Sacramento Bee. The perception of Cousins doesn't seem to have been affected all that much, if at all.
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Even though Cousins cause negative press for himself and the team, I honestly don't care about it. I just want the team to win and I am not sure he can co-exist with another star player, which is what we need to win here
 
biltalent

biltalent

Starter
#48
#48
Not sure I can agree with the notion that Adebayo cant score. He is scoring 20 points per-40 / 26 points per 100 possesions. In his junior year, Wcs averaged 14 points per 40 / 20 points per 100 posessions.
But you are right, I dont think he will develop into a reliable first option down low. But scoring of putbacks and lobs and also attacking mismatches he should be fine.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#49
#49
KingsFan80 said:
Even though Cousins cause negative press for himself and the team, I honestly don't care about it. I just want the team to win and I am not sure he can co-exist with another star player, which is what we need to win here
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How dare you mention the word TEAM. I think people sometimes forget that its the Sacramento Kings, and not the Sacramento Cousins. I don't mean that in a derogatory way toward Cousins. But Furillo and Voison don't work for the Kings, Cousins does. It's what Cousins does and says that affects the perception of the Kings. All the reporters can do is comment on it. And I get it, that some are less than truthful, but the Kings, and Cousins can't control what other people think or say. So my advice to Cousins is, don't try. Just do your best to conduct yourself in a way that best represents your team.

That said, personally, I'm done commenting on this subject. So enjoy without me folks. Back to basketball.
 
J

Joshoua

All-Star
#50
#50
kupman said:
If we trade DMC, it needs to be a blockbuster kind of trade for established players - not prospects or draft picks. For example, the Bulls are not happy. It could be a DMC, Bmac for Butler and Lopez kind of deal. Or, DMC, Bmac and Omri for Butler, Lopez and McDermott.

We did not trade The a Rock away for draft picks. We should not be doing that here either.
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Na we good give me a top 3 pick in this years draft plus a young player
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#51
#51
biltalent said:
Not sure I can agree with the notion that Adebayo cant score. He is scoring 20 points per-40 / 26 points per 100 possesions. In his junior year, Wcs averaged 14 points per 40 / 20 points per 100 posessions.
But you are right, I dont think he will develop into a reliable first option down low. But scoring of putbacks and lobs and also attacking mismatches he should be fine.
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Yeah, I agree with you. He does have a 15 to 17 foot jumpshot that he flashes on occasion. I think there's more of a offensive foundation there than Willie had at the same point in time. I sort of agree with the Shawn Kemp comparison. He's a terrific athlete, and I'm most impressed with how well he moves his feet on defense. He should develop into a very good P&R defender.
 
funkykingston

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#52
#52
bajaden said:
I've seen every Kentucky game this year so far, and I'm wondering if anyone thinks Monk can play some PG. He's a very good passer, but I question if his handles are good enough for the PG position. Stay tuned.....
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The team that could view Monk as a potential PG might be Philadelphia. He wouldn't actually need to play PG on offense if Simmons works out but he could defend other PGs and be a scorer/shooter at that spot.

The Sixers are short on shooters to space the floor for Simmons in transition and Embiid in the half court.
 
K

KingsFan80

Guest
#53
#53
Joshoua said:
Na we good give me a top 3 pick in this years draft plus a young player
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No way anyone gives up their star player for Cousins. He is too much baggage for them. Our best bet is to Boston for top ten picks and a decent player or players
 
kupman

kupman

Starter
#54
#54
KingsFan80 said:
No way anyone gives up their star player for Cousins. He is too much baggage for them. Our best bet is to Boston for top ten picks and a decent player or players
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We are talking about trading away the best big man in the league. We deserve a lot in return and I believe there are teams that will give a bunch to get him. We traded our established star to get Webber and DMC is perhaps even better than Webber. Why wouldn't other teams do the same? Webber had his share of baggage.

I have no interest in trading him away to draft 1-2, 19 year olds who might be able to lead the team to wins 3-4 years after we draft them.
 
K

KingsFan80

Guest
#55
#55
kupman said:
We are talking about trading away the best big man in the league. We deserve a lot in return and I believe there are teams that will give a bunch to get him. We traded our established star to get Webber and DMC is perhaps even better than Webber.

I have no interest in trading him away to draft 1-2, 19 year olds who might be able to lead the team to wins 3-4 years after we draft them.
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DMC carries a lot of baggage. We all love him as a King but other teams don't see it that way. I guarantee if the Kings could land a top star player then DMC would have already been traded
 
funkykingston

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#56
#56
kupman said:
If we trade DMC, it needs to be a blockbuster kind of trade for established players - not prospects or draft picks. For example, the Bulls are not happy. It could be a DMC, Bmac for Butler and Lopez kind of deal. Or, DMC, Bmac and Omri for Butler, Lopez and McDermott.

We did not trade The a Rock away for draft picks. We should not be doing that here either.
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We traded an aging Richmond for a troubled Webber. Cousins is much closer to Webber in this scenario. Nobody is trading another in their prime star for Cousins when he carries such baggage.

The Kings options for dealing Cousins are almost certainly a package of lesser players or a handful of magic beans - aka undeveloped young guys and draft picks.

I like the latter more but I'm not all that fond of either option. But that's what happens when you draft the best center in the league and fail to build around him for years.
 
kupman

kupman

Starter
#58
#58
funkykingston said:
We traded an aging Richmond for a troubled Webber. Cousins is much closer to Webber in this scenario. Nobody is trading another in their prime star for Cousins when he carries such baggage.

The Kings options for dealing Cousins are almost certainly a package of lesser players or a handful of magic beans - aka undeveloped young guys and draft picks.

I like the latter more but I'm not all that fond of either option. But that's what happens when you draft the best center in the league and fail to build around him for years.
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If what you say is true, then I am in the don't trade him camp. But, I hope, and think, that you might be wrong (with all due respect).
 
funkykingston

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#59
#59
kupman said:
If what you say is true, then I am in the don't trade him camp. But, I hope, and think, that you might be wrong (with all due respect).
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Anything's possible. The Nuggets got a pretty nice haul for Carmelo even though they had no leverage and everyone knew Anthony would sign in NY anyway if he was not traded. Injuries hurt their efforts and they lacked a true star player but that deal was a pretty good one.

So it's possible the Kings get a collection of guys that match what Joerger wants to do and scraps its way to being a better team than the Kings have been lately.

But I put the odds of the Kings landing a top 20 player in any Boogie trade as pretty low. But a couple top 50 guys? That could happen.

Whether that's the better course of action than betting on draft picks is something we can argue, but the Kings do have a few options if they decide to move on from Cousins.
 
kingjatt

kingjatt

Starter
#60
#60
Not sure if its true or not but on ESPN 1320 they mentioned that the feeling inside the building is fear with regards to trading Cousins. Fear that they wouldn't be able to replace his talent thru the crapshoot that is the draft sending this team into a further spiral of irrelevancy. A rebuild is long and hard and is not always successful, another failed rebuild could mean 10 more years of no playoffs, that would mean possibly 20 straight years of no post-season play! No one in the building is willing to risk that especially Vivek who has payments to make on that building, they would rather chug away trying to claw at a pipe dream of an 8th seed with a 235 million dollar Cousins rather than tear it down and at least attempt to do things the right way. The ESPN guys were saying that it is more likely than fans realize that the kings keep Cousins and keep trying this approach. A Cousins trade means there is no more Cousins to blame and many careers and livelihoods would be on the line should a rebuild fail.
 
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