Potential Free agent/trade/sign tracker

[The_Jamal]

Here's the thing about Grant as opposed to Barnes, Grant actually has a history of doing close to it whereas Barnes hasn't. Barnes in iso in a vacuum is >>>> Grant, but no team has appeared to be willing to give Barnes that including the Kings and from what it looks like it's because Barnes won't accept the offer.

Even if Monk walks this summer (ugh), you found your diamond in the rough in Keon while Keegan is primed for a massive year 3 breakout with his year 2 growth. Hell, even Davion rose from the ashes and was a super valuable rotation player like the last 3 months of the year. No reason he can't build on that as well. Colby Jones showed you some flashes and pick 13 should hopefully be a useful future asset as well. That's a decent future to invest in.

If Monk walks, I think you absolutely have to repurpose Huerter/HB into something and just invest in that youth popping around Fox and Domas. Maybe you actually think about a Huerter+HB for Grant+draft picks swap, that opens real opportunity for these guys to pop:

 

[SacTownKid]

Even if Monk walks this summer (ugh), you found your diamond in the rough in Keon while Keegan is primed for a massive year 3 breakout with his year 2 growth. Hell, even Davion rose from the ashes and was a super valuable rotation player like the last 3 months of the year. No reason he can't build on that as well. Colby Jones showed you some flashes and pick 13 should hopefully be a useful future asset as well. That's a decent future to invest in.

If Monk walks, I think you absolutely have to repurpose Huerter/HB into something and just invest in that youth popping around Fox and Domas. Maybe you actually think about a Huerter+HB for Grant+draft picks swap, that opens real opportunity for these guys to pop:

Ok, but who? No team is giving prime youth for that. If that's the goal then Monte has to start thinking about reset around Fox/Domas and I doubt he is unless there are literally no options.

 

[hrdboild]

Here's the thing about Grant as opposed to Barnes, Grant actually has a history of doing close to it whereas Barnes hasn't. Barnes in iso in a vacuum is >>>> Grant, but no team has appeared to be willing to give Barnes that including the Kings and from what it looks like it's because Barnes won't accept the offer.

Even despite his shortcomings, Harrison Barnes has had a better career so far than Jerami Grant. His shooting splits are better, his per game averages are better, his win shares are better. The one thing I would point to as a plus with Jerami Grant is that he used to block shots -- he's had two seasons of over 100 blocks in his career. But the last one ended 5 years ago and he hasn't even had a 60 block season since. It's not a part of his game anymore and usually players don't rediscover athletic ability at age 30. At this point in his career he's a highly paid black hole who scores a lot of points because he pours in a ton of shots. I remember the Cousins/Gay/IT era. More shots does not equate to better offense.

 

[SacTownKid]

Even despite his shortcomings, Harrison Barnes has had a better career so far than Jerami Grant. His shooting splits are better, his per game averages are better, his win shares are better. The one thing I would point to as a plus with Jerami Grant is that he used to block shots -- he's had two seasons of over 100 blocks in his career. But the last one ended 5 years ago and he hasn't even had a 60 block season since. It's not a part of his game anymore and usually players don't rediscover athletic ability at age 30. At this point in his career he's a highly paid black hole who scores a lot of points because he pours in a ton of shots. I remember the Cousins/Gay/IT era. More shots does not equate to better offense.

True, but put Barnes on some of those teams Grant was on and compare. If Barnes is truly a reason for the teams he's on being the success they were then he's honestly better than anyone other than Fox and Domas on this Kings team, so, should the Kings move off of Barnes, or keep him and everyone else is up for grabs? It's pretty much that kind of choice right now. In the end, raw numbers along with the eye test matters. Grant is able to actually put up numbers and Barnes is not. Barnes' iso numbers in Dallas were pretty much right there with a prime Melo. If that meant anything, why were the Kings able to get him for basically free? It is what it is, and that reality might tell the story. This is a question of running it back vs. making changes that might help, if they don't, then what's the cost? This team is nothing like the Cousins team because the level of real success is different. The Kings need scoring ability and size at F, while Grant might not be the perfect option, he's certainly an option and likely the best option as things currently sit.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

True, but put Barnes on some of those teams Grant was on and compare. If Barnes is truly a reason for the teams he's on being the success they were then he's honestly better than anyone other than Fox and Domas on this Kings team, so, should the Kings move off of Barnes, or keep him and everyone else is up for grabs? It's pretty much that kind of choice right now. In the end, raw numbers along with the eye test matters. Grant is able to actually put up numbers and Barnes is not. Barnes' iso numbers in Dallas were pretty much right there with a prime Melo. If that meant anything, why were the Kings able to get him for basically free? It is what it is, and that reality might tell the story. This is a question of running it back vs. making changes that might help, if they don't, then what's the cost? This team is nothing like the Cousins team because the level of real success is different. The Kings need scoring ability and size at F, while Grant might not be the perfect option, he's certainly an option and likely the best option as things currently sit.

The Kings ceiling with Grant would definitely be higher than with Barnes. He would sure help in the matchup problems against the Pelicans and others

 

[SacTownKid]

The Kings ceiling with Grant would definitely be higher than with Barnes. He would sure help in the matchup problems against the Pelicans and others

And the fact is it might not equal a ring regardless. Sitting in mediocrity vs. trying to find an answer is an easy choice IMO, go for the answer even if it's not the best one. As is, we kind of know where this Kings teams sits. Length, numbers... Grant is the better option on paper. If he's not what happens, you drop to 10th? Big whoop lol.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

And the fact is it might not equal a ring regardless. Sitting in mediocrity vs. trying to find an answer is an easy choice IMO, go for the answer even if it's not the best one. As is, we kind of know where this Kings teams sits. Length, numbers... Grant is the better option on paper. If he's not what happens, you drop to 10th? Big whoop lol.

I would think a risk would have to be taken at some point soon

 

[206Fan]

Rockets snap accept this deal, what are you talking about? They get to move forward with a Green-Keegan-Jabari-Sengun core? Sheesh. All those extra wings just become trade fodder and they can restock their FRP stockpile with.

Why would they trade first round picks for Keegan when they’re loaded at the wing position with 4 legitimate guys all on their rookie contracts who can flex in the same 3/4 position as Keegan (I forgot about Amen). They would be much better off trying to get a PG, SG, or a shot blocking PF… their real areas of need.

I don’t really like Jalen Green as I see him as a borderline chucker who’s not good enough from 3pt. But on a young and developing team like the Rockets, I guess I’m fine holding out for his upside because he’s a good shot creator.

If I’m the Rockets, I’d use those same picks along with a combination of their young players for someone like Garland instead.

Keegan for them feels like a lateral move at best because it’s not a position nor area of need and would impede the development of all their wings.

 

[hrdboild]

True, but put Barnes on some of those teams Grant was on and compare. If Barnes is truly a reason for the teams he's on being the success they were then he's honestly better than anyone other than Fox and Domas on this Kings team, so, should the Kings move off of Barnes, or keep him and everyone else is up for grabs? It's pretty much that kind of choice right now. In the end, raw numbers along with the eye test matters. Grant is able to actually put up numbers and Barnes is not. Barnes' iso numbers in Dallas were pretty much right there with a prime Melo. If that meant anything, why were the Kings able to get him for basically free? It is what it is, and that reality might tell the story. This is a question of running it back vs. making changes that might help, if they don't, then what's the cost? This team is nothing like the Cousins team because the level of real success is different. The Kings need scoring ability and size at F, while Grant might not be the perfect option, he's certainly an option and likely the best option as things currently sit.

Jerami Grant is certainly an option we could look at. I'm sure he's available if we want to make a run at trading for him. And in light of the season HB just had, I agree that we should be looking for an upgrade at his position. You just lose me at Grant being "likely the best option". If we trade for him we're stuck with him for the next 4 years and capped out from making other changes. He'd better be the final piece for us when those are the stakes and I'm not even convinced that he'd be an upgrade over Barnes in the short-term. There's nothing exciting about Harrison's game but he knows his role and doesn't make a lot of mistakes.

If it were up to me, I'd be spending the off-season trying to find a young-ish defensive force at that PF/C position and an upgrade at the backup SF position. I also would prefer that we keep the lotto pick this year and draft somebody with it instead of messing around with trading down, stock-piling future picks, selling our pick for cash, or trading for a veteran. There might not be a sure-thing superstar at the top of the draft this year but there's a whole slate of players who could turn into future Harrison Barnes and Jerami Grants in the middle of the first round. Finding one of them and developing them should be priority one right now.

 

[206Fan]

Even if Monk walks this summer (ugh), you found your diamond in the rough in Keon while Keegan is primed for a massive year 3 breakout with his year 2 growth. Hell, even Davion rose from the ashes and was a super valuable rotation player like the last 3 months of the year. No reason he can't build on that as well. Colby Jones showed you some flashes and pick 13 should hopefully be a useful future asset as well. That's a decent future to invest in.

If Monk walks, I think you absolutely have to repurpose Huerter/HB into something and just invest in that youth popping around Fox and Domas. Maybe you actually think about a Huerter+HB for Grant+draft picks swap, that opens real opportunity for these guys to pop:

We don’t need youth around Fox and Sabonis. At this point in their career, they are both NBA veterans in their prime… don’t think we have time to waste around and hope that the young guys don’t screw brings up.

But I am a big supporter for Grant because he fills an area of need at 1) replacing Barnes and 2) being a reliable scorer.

 

[hrdboild]

We don’t need youth around Fox and Sabonis. At this point in their career, they are both NBA veterans in their prime… don’t think we have time to waste around and hope that the young guys don’t screw brings up.

But I am a big supporter for Grant because he fills an area of need at 1) replacing Barnes and 2) being a reliable scorer.

Fox and Sabonis are 26/27! They should have another 10 years left in their NBA careers at least. We haven't even won a playoff series yet and you're ready to swear off rookies contracts and go all-in on a 30 year old perennial loser instead? Can't we at least shake some more branches? There have to be more options available to us besides Jerami Grant and sticking with the roster we have now.

 

[206Fan]

Fox and Sabonis are 26/27! They should have another 10 years left in their NBA careers at least. We haven't even won a playoff series yet and you're ready to swear off rookies contracts and go all-in on a 30 year old perennial loser instead? Can't we at least shake some more branches? There have to be more options available to us besides Jerami Grant and sticking with the roster we have now.

At least another 10 years left? I don't see either guy playing meaningful basketball at 36/37... The only ones who are still in the league at that age are either A) all-time greats or B) career role players. You're playing at the top until suddenly you're not. Westbrook had a sharp decline at 30-years-old, just 2 years after winning MVP. Harden suffered an injury at 31-years-old and never looked the same. Cousins was only 27-years-old when he tore his meniscus and his career tanked overnight. In a less extreme example, there's Harrison Barnes who lost a step at 31-years-old seemingly out of nowhere. There's outliers like Jimmy Butler and DeMar who have played at a high level even into their 30s, but they don't represent most NBA careers. You really don't know how long each guy has at their peak level. I don't think we should take Fox and Sabonis for granted or even go with the assumption that we have the next 10 years with them. Fox is 26-years-old with 7 years of NBA experience. Sabonis is 27-years-old with 8 years of NBA experience. We're not exactly talking about 21-years-olds on a rookie contract. Their window is right now.

In regards to Grant.. don't know how you can call him a perennial loser when he's had more playoff experience than Fox and Sabonis combined lol. Yes he wasn't the focal point of their offense during those games, but he wouldn't be here either.

Grant is a name circulating among fans right now because he's probably the best attainable player we can get without giving up Keegan because of his questionable contract and timeline with the Blazers.

 

[SacTownKid]

Jerami Grant is certainly an option we could look at. I'm sure he's available if we want to make a run at trading for him. And in light of the season HB just had, I agree that we should be looking for an upgrade at his position. You just lose me at Grant being "likely the best option". If we trade for him we're stuck with him for the next 4 years and capped out from making other changes. He'd better be the final piece for us when those are the stakes and I'm not even convinced that he'd be an upgrade over Barnes in the short-term. There's nothing exciting about Harrison's game but he knows his role and doesn't make a lot of mistakes.

If it were up to me, I'd be spending the off-season trying to find a young-ish defensive force at that PF/C position and an upgrade at the backup SF position. I also would prefer that we keep the lotto pick this year and draft somebody with it instead of messing around with trading down, stock-piling future picks, selling our pick for cash, or trading for a veteran. There might not be a sure-thing superstar at the top of the draft this year but there's a whole slate of players who could turn into future Harrison Barnes and Jerami Grants in the middle of the first round. Finding one of them and developing them should be priority one right now.

Monte is capped out, what's the alternative? If Monte is building around Fox and Domas then anything that makes sense around them or solves some degree of problems is a step forward. Grant IMO would be a step forward on the surface. Grant would be an upgrade over Barnes in the sense that he'd potentially provide size and points. Two things the Kings need. You can find a Jerami Grant or Harrison with that pick, but if they don't add much in the next 2-3 seasons it doesn't do much to THIS incarnation of the Kings. Again, when Monte chose Fox over Tyrese he chose NOW. It's just the way it is.

 

[SacTownKid]

Fox and Sabonis are 26/27! They should have another 10 years left in their NBA careers at least. We haven't even won a playoff series yet and you're ready to swear off rookies contracts and go all-in on a 30 year old perennial loser instead? Can't we at least shake some more branches? There have to be more options available to us besides Jerami Grant and sticking with the roster we have now.

Once again, the Kings when they made the WCF had Peja and Webber as their top two options. They were 28 and 24. Think about that. It's amazing how things can change and how quickly. In the end, it's the salary cap that makes things tough. The Kings could have some options in a few seasons as long as they keep their cap fluid but it's a thin line between building and stuck. If there are more options fine, that's Monte's job to find out. As it sits, the Kings appear to be quite a bit aways from that top rung so being truly selective isn't really an option at this point.

 

[luckytkp]

People think we have time, but we really don’t. The team is a new team, not a young team. We have a 3 year window max.

 

[hrdboild]

Wow, it's that bad is it? Lose a game to the Pelicans and suddenly our whole future is over? I got nothing for you then. Might as well fire the coach, trade Fox, and go back to praying for lottery balls I guess?

I don't seem to be getting anywhere trying to provide a counterpoint so maybe I'll just clarify my position before opting out of spinning in more circles. There are 450 players in the NBA at any given time and another 50-60 who are recent NBA players looking for a new job. If you want to spend the next 5 months talking about scenarios regarding one player then knock yourself out. I don't think it's a crazy point of view to suggest that there might be another solution available to improve this team.

 

[SacTownKid]

Wow, it's that bad is it? Lose a game to the Pelicans and suddenly our whole future is over? I got nothing for you then. Might as well fire the coach, trade Fox, and go back to praying for lottery balls I guess?

I don't seem to be getting anywhere trying to provide a counterpoint so maybe I'll just clarify my position before opting out of spinning in more circles. There are 450 players in the NBA at any given time and another 50-60 who are recent NBA players looking for a new job. If you want to spend the next 5 months talking about scenarios regarding one player then knock yourself out. I don't think it's a crazy point of view to suggest that there might be another solution available to improve this team.

It has nothing to do with the Pelicans loss, it's the fact that the Kings were hovering around .500 ball since January and even the Kings "youth" is nearing their mid 20's. I pointed out the 10 game snaps multiple times over the course of the season and it was amazing how the team would get even as much as 3-4 games over that .500 mark but then fall back down in those snapshots. This is what it is to be a team that lives and dies by the 3. One year you can make it to the Finals, another, lottery picks. It's not about being "over", it's about maybe being a little farther from getting started than some thought. The results are what they are, sorry folks who thought contending was right there. Apparently not at this point. It could be in any given season because as a shooting team it always can be, but history shows even that is likely nothing more than a blip. As a GM with any sense you'd have to approach it that way as well.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I'm actually not at all opposed to Grant if the team feels he is the answer but @hrdboild has made some valid criticisms, but I think what's more wild is if we're concerned about the age of the core or being constrained by the cap, Jerami Grant is exactly the type of player we'd be trying to shed. Huge contract, wrong side of 30, fading on defense. Does he bring the intangible/leadership qualities he'd be replacing with Barnes as well?

I'd still love to draft the long term Barnes upgrade. Are there MLE guys that can fill in and be a steal the same way Monk was?

It's going to be an interesting offseason and for one reason or another (but probably the 100 something million of them after 2025) I imagine Grant won't be the answer.

 

[SacTownKid]

I'm actually not at all opposed to Grant if the team feels he is the answer but @hrdboild has made some valid criticisms, but I think what's more wild is if we're concerned about the age of the core or being constrained by the cap, Jerami Grant is exactly the type of player we'd be trying to shed. Huge contract, wrong side of 30, fading on defense. Does he bring the intangible/leadership qualities he'd be replacing with Barnes as well?

I'd still love to draft the long term Barnes upgrade. Are there MLE guys that can fill in and be a steal the same way Monk was?

It's going to be an interesting offseason and for one reason or another (but probably the 100 something million of them after 2025) I imagine Grant won't be the answer.

Those are the downsides but leadership has gotten this team to where it is. This is the point where the rubber meets the road. If it it takes locker room leadership, then go sign your next Shumpert. Don't have 10% of your cap spent on a locker room guy. Obviously Barnes is a much more prolific talent than Shump but if the usage smashes it down to being equal, what's the point?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Those are the downsides but leadership has gotten this team to where it is. This is the point where the rubber meets the road. If it it takes locker room leadership, then go sign your next Shumpert. Don't have 10% of your cap spent on a locker room guy. Obviously Barnes is a much more prolific talent than Shump but if the usage smashes it down to being equal, what's the point?

Grant will be making almost twice as much as Barnes in 2 seasons. Not a defense of Barnes or making the case for him to be here at all. It's just that he appears to be a horrible value and he also isn't a young guy with an improvement trajectory. He's a guy you add on the last year or two of his contract because you think he puts you over the hump. As a guy locked up for 4 years at a ridiculous price over 30 man I have a lot of questions.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Upgrading Barnes is going to be harder than most fans think I fear. One: because he is a lot better player than fans think he is and the numbers back it up and Two: the better forwards are either unavailable or come with some major warts. Even guys like OG are tough. I wonder how could the Knicks feel about giving him a max contract this summer? He is injured a lot and they win whether he is on the court or not.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Upgrading Barnes is going to be harder than most fans think I fear. One: because he is a lot better player than fans think he is and the numbers back it up and Two: the better forwards are either unavailable or come with some major warts. Even guys like OG are tough. I wonder how could the Knicks feel about giving him a max contract this summer? He is injured a lot and they win whether he is on the court or not.

That's why I think we have better odds at developing a replacement than overpaying for one.
The other option is a reclamation project like Monk was if one exists.

The minute we're paying a guy who will likely still be the 4th best starter on the team 30m+ fans are going to revolt as soon as he misses a key shot.

 

[Stan.Helsing]

Upgrading Barnes is going to be harder than most fans think I fear. One: because he is a lot better player than fans think he is and the numbers back it up and Two: the better forwards are either unavailable or come with some major warts. Even guys like OG are tough. I wonder how could the Knicks feel about giving him a max contract this summer? He is injured a lot and they win whether he is on the court or not.

Fully disagree with you about Barnes, he has declined and is only going to get worse as he ages. He should not be a starter, no way Jose.

Are you related to Barnes or a friend? Every time I made a post pointing out when he sucked, you kept popping up in his defense. You also seem to care more than normal about where he should be traded to. Seriously, how does it matter where he's traded to if he's being traded? And now, after the horrible season he has had, you say that, "he is a lot better player than fans think he is and the numbers back it up". What numbers?! Lol.

On the Kings, Barnes is 12th in PER, 13th in BPM, 11th in VORP, 10th in WS/48. Whoopity doo dah!

 

[SacTownKid]

Grant will be making almost twice as much as Barnes in 2 seasons. Not a defense of Barnes or making the case for him to be here at all. It's just that he appears to be a horrible value and he also isn't a young guy with an improvement trajectory. He's a guy you add on the last year or two of his contract because you think he puts you over the hump. As a guy locked up for 4 years at a ridiculous price over 30 man I have a lot of questions.

Grant actually puts up points though. Plus has size, is he overpaid? Heck yeah, but would he make the team better? Most likely. If you basically replaced Huerter and Barnes with Grant on your cap it's worth it.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Fully disagree with you about Barnes, he has declined and is only going to get worse as he ages. He should not be a starter, no way Jose.

Are you related to Barnes or a friend? Every time I made a post pointing out when he sucked, you kept popping up in his defense. You also seem to care more than normal about where he should be traded to. Seriously, how does it matter where he's traded to if he's being traded? And now, after the horrible season he has had, you say that, "he is a lot better player than fans think he is and the numbers back it up". What numbers?! Lol.

On the Kings, Barnes is 12th in PER, 13th in BPM, 11th in VORP, 10th in WS/48. Whoopity doo dah!

your dislike for him is greater than my love for him, he’s not even among my top 4 favorite players on the team. Your dislike for Barnes is greater than your interest in the team given your post history. He is the most consistent shooter on the team, never turns the ball over, never misses games and has the third deepest bag on the team after Fox and Sabonis (not counting Monk since he is not on the team). Oh and he scored 17 points in both play in games, basically sealing the win vs the Warriors. I also never said he should start next year nor did I mention where he should get traded to. I guarantee the GMs around the league have a higher opinion of him than you do.

 

[SacTownKid]

That's why I think we have better odds at developing a replacement than overpaying for one.
The other option is a reclamation project like Monk was if one exists.

The minute we're paying a guy who will likely still be the 4th best starter on the team 30m+ fans are going to revolt as soon as he misses a key shot.

But why are they selective? Ideally you do both at the same time. Get a better option AND develop a replacement if you can.

 

[SacTownKid]

your dislike for him is greater than my love for him, he’s not even among my top 4 favorite players on the team. Your dislike for Barnes is greater than your interest in the team given your post history. He is the most consistent shooter on the team, never turns the ball over, never misses games and has the third deepest bag on the team after Fox and Sabonis (not counting Monk since he is not on the team). Oh and he scored 17 points in both play in games, basically sealing the win vs the Warriors. I also never said he should start next year nor did I mention where he should get traded to. I guarantee the GMs around the league have a higher opinion of him than you do.

True, but HE is being pushed back. That's fact. Before he gets pushed back any further move off of his deal. Period. Same thing as Holmes. And this is coming from someone who has defended Barnes at most turns. I can see how Brown is using him though, get out, NOW.

 

[serbiangoat]

The Kings should hope the Suns bomb in the first round and go all in on one of KD/Booker to pair with Fox/Sabonis, Murray + all the pick/pick swaps. or maybe try get Beal at a massive discount without giving up Keegan.

 

[iowamcnabb]

True, but HE is being pushed back. That's fact. Before he gets pushed back any further move off of his deal. Period. Same thing as Holmes. And this is coming from someone who has defended Barnes at most turns. I can see how Brown is using him though, get out, NOW.

Holmes is a cautionary tale but I don’t think an energy big and a wing who can shoot as well as HB does are comparable. Two of Monk, Barnes and KVon will likely not be back next year. Or at the very least gone by the deadline. If Monk leaves, you will likely need either of those remaining players for bench scoring punch. Don’t know who that will be yet

 

[Sac.Kings]

The Kings should hope the Suns bomb in the first round and go all in on one of KD/Booker to pair with Fox/Sabonis, Murray + all the pick/pick swaps. or maybe try get Beal at a massive discount without giving up Keegan.

KD would be great, but he’s getting long in the tooth and is injury prone. Beal is incredibly injury prone and I have no interest there. Booker is a “real deal” type of SG and would be interesting on this team, but we would have to wave goodbye to any defense we gained with Keon. Unlikely that any of those things happen though, especially since we are division rivals.