[Game] Kings @ Suns 2/14/2023 6pm Pacific 9pm Eastern

[KingsFanSince85]

Do you see the Suns stopping Jokic though? Domas had 24/15/7 against them tonight and that was even with the Kings randomly deciding to stop running their offense somewhere around midway through the third quarter. KD is a really solid backline defender but I think a lot of his numbers on that end were inflated this season by playing next to Claxton, who's become one of the best defenders in the league. Those scary defensive wings they were throwing out on the floor tonight do great against more traditionally perimeter based offenses but they can be beat off-ball.

I’m sorry, but I’m not impressed by PHX. At all. Even with KD on the roster.

First, I’ll bet either KD or CP3 or both will be injured come playoff time. Secondly, I think their roster is SOFT. And they are aren’t a good defensive team, especially after losing the players they did in the trade.

I think they’re a team that can get got offensively, like a lot of teams, but I don’t see a real contender. I see overrated.

That’s what stings so badly about the KINGS losing tonight. If their bench, sans TD, could give them a better performance than 1-12 — the KINGS win this game.

Lastly, the KINGS need to stop making Ayton look like a great player. He’s not. And CP3 has been washed for a while.

 

[Tetsujin]

They won't stop Jokic, but they will out score the Nuggets team. The Warriors didn't match up well against Jokic last season either and it didn't matter

The Nuggets were missing most of their roster last season though. Their second best play through their stretch run was Monte Morris.

 

[King-Da-Yah]

I think it's very likely we see some KD at C lineups and they run some Cp3/KD PnRs and just crush everyone offensively. Like cp3-book-okogie-craig-KD type roster when Ayton is resting.
Filthy

that doesn’t sound like a good time….

 

[SacTownKid]

The Nuggets were missing most of their roster last season though. Their second best play through their stretch run was Monte Morris.

Yeah, but unless they call the games different or Jokic grows some mobility on defense, if your big is hopeless guarding pick and roll it's going to be tough as the center matchup of PG13 vs. Gobert showed a few seasons ago. Ayton actually wasn't that bad tonight. Jokic sits at the basket and hopes for shots to miss. You could say the same thing for Sacramento but at least Sabonis moves around a little and does switch when called upon. The Nuggets are much the same, if they win it's going to be based on dominant offensive performance. The Warriors had decent defensive stretches in their run but they topped out around a little above average at 6 out of 16 in defensive net rating. The Bucks and Boston were the stoppers and Boston went for defense vs. offense in game 7 of the finals and by the time Udoka switched to offense to matchup they were already so far down it was too late, the 39 points they put up in the first half was their undoing. The Kings being this good shows that yes, shooting is the sauce. However, to get to that next step? You need the talent at the top of your roster. The usual suspects making it to the end season after season are indeed the usual suspects with all the usual names taking them there and they have a clear delineation in their top 3 or so options typically.

 

[The_Jamal]

On the bright-side, I thought Kessler had a really great Kings debut. Immediately gets the Booker assignment, which is either a real vote of confidence from Brown or just throwing him into the fire, but he had a few really great defensive possessions on him. Forced him to dribble around and a pass to CP3 for a fadeaway contested 3 that went in. Defended him on an island for 7 seconds only for Book to make a tough contested mid-range. And then several other possessions where there was a stop.

Hopefully can use the All-star break to get him more integrated and potentially in a 10+ MPG role off the bench. Kings are going to need to find an answer to the Davion problem if he doesn't pick his game up quickly in the next few weeks. I wouldn't mind seeing Kessler and/or Keon getting consistent playing time if they can be the wing answers off the bench.

 

[iowamcnabb]

On the bright-side, I thought Kessler had a really great Kings debut. Immediately gets the Booker assignment, which is either a real vote of confidence from Brown or just throwing him into the fire, but he had a few really great defensive possessions on him. Forced him to dribble around and a pass to CP3 for a fadeaway contested 3 that went in. Defended him on an island for 7 seconds only for Book to make a tough contested mid-range. And then several other possessions where there was a stop.

Hopefully can use the All-star break to get him more integrated and potentially in a 10+ MPG role off the bench. Kings are going to need to find an answer to the Davion problem if he doesn't pick his game up quickly in the next few weeks. I wouldn't mind seeing Kessler and/or Keon getting consistent playing time if they can be the wing answers off the bench.

he was quicker than I remembered when I was keeping tabs on him last year. If he can hit his threes he might get a shot

 

[Jkbiker]

Kings Bench sucked this game, TD scored 11 of bench's 15 points, Trey 1 for 7)
Davion(Off-night),Metu( -0- rebounds),Kessler all -0- pts, at least Kessler showed up on defense.

Suns Bench sucked too, 17 points, but at least they had excuses. KD trade wiped out Bench players and Shamet, Payne injured.

On starters- Keegan and Barnes had poor games.

our defense sucked could not stop suns starters.

After the All-star break, Monte needs to get busy:

If Davion does not bounce back first 5 games, use monk as back up PG
or look at Buy-out market for Back-up PG (Rose,PatBev) - hate it- go get Wall
Backup-center (did Noel get buy-out yet?) screw it sign Boogie

Wall and Boogie - yep that's the ticket!!

 

[twslam07]

I thought we just looked like a worse team which is a scary thought knowing KD and some of their bench depth was out. I didn’t think we played bad but at the same time, it felt like PHX was in control of the game. It’s just 1 game. We’ll see how this team looks in the upcoming matchups.

 

[twslam07]

We really need to explore a Mitchell/Holmes package in the off-season before Mitchell’s value declines too much. I’d be willing to just move forward with a rotation of…

PG - Fox (32 min) / Monk (16 min)
SG - Huerter (28 min) / Davis (10 min) / Monk (10 min)
SF - Murray (28 min) / Davis (14 min) / Barnes (6 min)
PF - Barnes (24 min) / Lyles (24 min)
C - Sabonis (32 min) / Metu (16 min)

…if it wouldn’t absolutely tank Mitchell’s trade value.

 

[sactowndog]

The guys who will benefit from this break the most are Domas and Keegan in my opinion. Domas to heal up and get much needed rest and for Keegan to see his family. I know he is going to his sisters game on Saturday and then to Kris’ game in Chicago on Sunday

Domas isn’t getting too much rest at the all star game nor is Keegan at the rising stars game.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

Kings Bench sucked this game, TD scored 11 of bench's 15 points, Trey 1 for 7)
Davion(Off-night),Metu( -0- rebounds),Kessler all -0- pts, at least Kessler showed up on defense.

Suns Bench sucked too, 17 points, but at least they had excuses. KD trade wiped out Bench players and Shamet, Payne injured.

On starters- Keegan and Barnes had poor games.

our defense sucked could not stop suns starters.

After the All-star break, Monte needs to get busy:

If Davion does not bounce back first 5 games, use monk as back up PG
or look at Buy-out market for Back-up PG (Rose,PatBev) - hate it- go get Wall
Backup-center (did Noel get buy-out yet?) screw it sign Boogie

Wall and Boogie - yep that's the ticket!!

I am honestly all for Wall and Cousins signings. Problem with Wall though is he still thinks he’s 2014 John Wall. He has no business shooting a basketball anymore.

 

[Pacboy]

Kings Bench sucked this game, TD scored 11 of bench's 15 points, Trey 1 for 7)
Davion(Off-night),Metu( -0- rebounds),Kessler all -0- pts, at least Kessler showed up on defense.

Suns Bench sucked too, 17 points, but at least they had excuses. KD trade wiped out Bench players and Shamet, Payne injured.

On starters- Keegan and Barnes had poor games.

our defense sucked could not stop suns starters.

After the All-star break, Monte needs to get busy:

If Davion does not bounce back first 5 games, use monk as back up PG
or look at Buy-out market for Back-up PG (Rose,PatBev) - hate it- go get Wall
Backup-center (did Noel get buy-out yet?) screw it sign Boogie

Wall and Boogie - yep that's the ticket!!

Frank Kaminski may get bought out by Houston. Would be a nice bench big. Can provide size and shooting. Personally I would go for Rose and Kaminski

 

[fansinceday1]

I am honestly all for Wall and Cousins signings. Problem with Wall though is he still thinks he’s 2014 John Wall. He has no business shooting a basketball anymore.

Im all for bringing in boogie. At this point boogie knows he's not a starter. He could be a really nice piece coming in off the bench.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

Im all for bringing in boogie. At this point boogie knows he's not a starter. He could be a really nice piece coming in off the bench.

I was ok giving Monte a pass on the trade deadline, but it'll be a misfire if he doesn't do anything on the buyout market. There's multiple guys there that fill roles for us that we really need. Going the rest of the season with Mitchell as our backup point guard and no solid option behind Sabonis is going to make things really tough on us as the season winds down.

 

[Section 101]

Domas isn’t getting too much rest at the all star game nor is Keegan at the rising stars game.

Keegan gets 5 days off after his game, Domas gets 4 days. Plus they are getting 3 days and 4 days now. That's 8 rest days and they wont be playing high minutes in their games.

 

[ESP47]

Nearly all of the Kings perimeter defenders can be taken off the dribble without even needing to be screened. This is why they lose nearly every game. Pay attention to the shot quality other teams get vs. what the Kings get. Wide open 3s all game long because the second that initial defender gets blown by, then defense is forced to come help and now the opponent just has to kick it out to a guaranteed wide open player.

Huerter, Monk, TD, Murray, Barnes and Lyles are bbq chicken for any straight line driver.

Fox also is half the time. Even Davion gets out muscled on multiple drives per game.

The shot quality that the opponents get on half their plays is like basically a pre game warmup and it's why the Kings give up really high shooting percentages every game. Half of the opponents misses are just pure luck because there's no one in the vicinity of them when they're shooting.

 

[The_Jamal]

Nearly all of the Kings perimeter defenders can be taken off the dribble without even needing to be screened. This is why they lose nearly every game. Pay attention to the shot quality other teams get vs. what the Kings get. Wide open 3s all game long because the second that initial defender gets blown by, then defense is forced to come help and now the opponent just has to kick it out to a guaranteed wide open player.

Huerter, Monk, TD, Murray, Barnes and Lyles are bbq chicken for any straight line driver.

Fox also is half the time. Even Davion gets out muscled on multiple drives per game.

The shot quality that the opponents get on half their plays is like basically a pre game warmup and it's why the Kings give up really high shooting percentages every game. Half of the opponents misses are just pure luck because there's no one in the vicinity of them when they're shooting.

Yeah I think Monte is going to have to sacrifice some offense to get some defense infused with the core. Kings still have the 2nd best ORtg in the NBA, but are 23rd in Def Rtg. And I just don't know where you'd get any defensive upside or spike in a season or 2 with the core. Outside of Keegan potentially.

Not entirely sure what the best way to go about that would be. Do you let HB walk in the off-season to go get Grant Williams? Do you keep the top 6 together offensive core (starters+Monk) and work to infuse defense on the fringes around them?

Luckily, we're only in year 1 of the Brown/Monte era so there's time to build this right. Already proved they can build a top 5 offense; now how do you keep it while making a top 12 defense?

 

[ESP47]

Yeah I think Monte is going to have to sacrifice some offense to get some defense infused with the core. Kings still have the 2nd best ORtg in the NBA, but are 23rd in Def Rtg. And I just don't know where you'd get any defensive upside or spike in a season or 2 with the core. Outside of Keegan potentially.

Not entirely sure what the best way to go about that would be. Do you let HB walk in the off-season to go get Grant Williams? Do you keep the top 6 together offensive core (starters+Monk) and work to infuse defense on the fringes around them?

Luckily, we're only in year 1 of the Brown/Monte era so there's time to build this right. Already proved they can build a top 5 offense; now how do you keep it while making a top 12 defense?

Yep it's going to be a challenge for McNair for sure. Our players are very gifted offensively, which is why they'll seemingly give up 10 straight buckets and still be within a couple points. Problem is that if a defense puts the clamps on our offense like PHX did last night, we have no way of doing the same to them because our players aren't capable of it.

Replacing Barnes with Williams would help but there's the big possibility that we aren't able to get Williams and then are just left patching his position with normal Kings free agent retreads.

Fox needs to go out and make as many SF friends as possible so we can get another Monk type signing.

 

[The_Jamal]

Yep it's going to be a challenge for McNair for sure. Our players are very gifted offensively, which is why they'll seemingly give up 10 straight buckets and still be within a couple points. Problem is that if a defense puts the clamps on our offense like PHX did last night, we have no way of doing the same to them because our players aren't capable of it.

Replacing Barnes with Williams would help but there's the big possibility that we aren't able to get Williams and then are just left patching his position with normal Kings free agent retreads.

Fox needs to go out and make as many SF friends as possible so we can get another Monk type signing.

I think I'd be real willing to give Keon and Kessler some actual bench minutes to see what they are. Archetype wise, they're kind of what you're hoping to surround the core with, just a matter if they're NBA players or not. I guess what's tough is because we're good so far this year, the Kings haven't really had an opportunity to work in some of the younger guys with actual playing time. Not sure if we'd be willing to take a minor step back to see if any of those guys pop.

Like if Davion continues to struggle as he has, could you go Monk at PG, keep Lyles and then work in Keon/Kessler/Queta as your 8-10 slots? Would those 3 be THAT much worse than Davion/TD/Metu? Unfortunately, hard to say in their current form

 

[iowamcnabb]

Domas isn’t getting too much rest at the all star game nor is Keegan at the rising stars game.

nine days in between the next game. Keegan will be there Thursday and Friday and half of those days will just be hanging out and Fox and Domas will likely be there 2-3 days. Still time for 3-4 days rest

 

[Kingster]

Yeah, but unless they call the games different or Jokic grows some mobility on defense, if your big is hopeless guarding pick and roll it's going to be tough as the center matchup of PG13 vs. Gobert showed a few seasons ago. Ayton actually wasn't that bad tonight. Jokic sits at the basket and hopes for shots to miss. You could say the same thing for Sacramento but at least Sabonis moves around a little and does switch when called upon. The Nuggets are much the same, if they win it's going to be based on dominant offensive performance. The Warriors had decent defensive stretches in their run but they topped out around a little above average at 6 out of 16 in defensive net rating. The Bucks and Boston were the stoppers and Boston went for defense vs. offense in game 7 of the finals and by the time Udoka switched to offense to matchup they were already so far down it was too late, the 39 points they put up in the first half was their undoing. The Kings being this good shows that yes, shooting is the sauce. However, to get to that next step? You need the talent at the top of your roster. The usual suspects making it to the end season after season are indeed the usual suspects with all the usual names taking them there and they have a clear delineation in their top 3 or so options typically.

I tend to agree, but I don't like that agree, if that makes sense. I'm tired of doughnut basketball. If Phx and Denver do play in the playoffs I'd like nothing better than Denver throwing the ball to Joker in the post repeatedly and foul out Ayton in the first half. Probably won't happen, but that's my dream, anyway. The only way it makes sense to have an offense built around a center in today's game is if your center punishes the opposing team in the paint so as to get not only the two points, but fouls out the opposing team's center(s) and gets some 3-pointers the old fashioned way.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

Yeah I think Monte is going to have to sacrifice some offense to get some defense infused with the core. Kings still have the 2nd best ORtg in the NBA, but are 23rd in Def Rtg. And I just don't know where you'd get any defensive upside or spike in a season or 2 with the core. Outside of Keegan potentially.

Not entirely sure what the best way to go about that would be. Do you let HB walk in the off-season to go get Grant Williams? Do you keep the top 6 together offensive core (starters+Monk) and work to infuse defense on the fringes around them?

Luckily, we're only in year 1 of the Brown/Monte era so there's time to build this right. Already proved they can build a top 5 offense; now how do you keep it while making a top 12 defense?

I don't think we can run it back next year with the starting lineup as is. It's just too bad defensively and doesn't work. We either need to find someone to start at sg and move Huerter to the bench or let Barnes walk and find someone to replace him. Even getting one good defender into the starting lineup, who can also contribute some offensively, will go a very long way for us.

 

[Fantazija]

I’m sorry, but I’m not impressed by PHX. At all. Even with KD on the roster.

First, I’ll bet either KD or CP3 or both will be injured come playoff time. Secondly, I think their roster is SOFT. And they are aren’t a good defensive team, especially after losing the players they did in the trade.

I think they’re a team that can get got offensively, like a lot of teams, but I don’t see a real contender. I see overrated.

That’s what stings so badly about the KINGS losing tonight. If their bench, sans TD, could give them a better performance than 1-12 — the KINGS win this game.

Lastly, the KINGS need to stop making Ayton look like a great player. He’s not. And CP3 has been washed for a while.

Ayton takes the worst shot (based on ts%) in basketball (long contested 2) and makes it.Not sure how one defends that

 

[Fantazija]

Yeah I think Monte is going to have to sacrifice some offense to get some defense infused with the core. Kings still have the 2nd best ORtg in the NBA, but are 23rd in Def Rtg. And I just don't know where you'd get any defensive upside or spike in a season or 2 with the core. Outside of Keegan potentially.

Not entirely sure what the best way to go about that would be. Do you let HB walk in the off-season to go get Grant Williams? Do you keep the top 6 together offensive core (starters+Monk) and work to infuse defense on the fringes around them?

Luckily, we're only in year 1 of the Brown/Monte era so there's time to build this right. Already proved they can build a top 5 offense; now how do you keep it while making a top 12 defense?

Grant Williams would fit in nice with the Kings, but he will ask for more money then Barnes most likely

 

[joemama]

Cory Joseph ? John Wall? Maybe if we're lucky RJ Hampton.

Id say Bryn Forbes but I think theres a rumor he's headed back to Milwaukee.

Forbes?
Read this:
https://www.tmz.com/2023/02/15/nba-...after-allegedly-striking-woman-several-times/

 

[Ozymandias]

Forbes?
Read this:
https://www.tmz.com/2023/02/15/nba-...after-allegedly-striking-woman-several-times/

Yep I just posted this news in the free agency thread.


I personally would much prefer RJ Hampton over Forbes anyway.

 

[SacTownKid]

Grant Williams would fit in nice with the Kings, but he will ask for more money then Barnes most likely

It might be worth it though. With unproven scorers like Williams the question is how much is he worth to you? He does have offensive skills and in college showed a more well rounded offensive game but lower production 3 and D guys do have a cap in value. That said, Williams is a great risk vs. reward player because if he can bring back some of those skills offensively he had in college along with his spot shooting and defense, he's a potential huge payoff for a team willing to gamble.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I don't think we can run it back next year with the starting lineup as is. It's just too bad defensively and doesn't work. We either need to find someone to start at sg and move Huerter to the bench or let Barnes walk and find someone to replace him. Even getting one good defender into the starting lineup, who can also contribute some offensively, will go a very long way for us.

I wouldn't mind trying Monk over Huerter in the starting lineup and let him and Fox have choices between which guard to defend. Don't see why Monk absolutely must be the 6th man, if you've got another microwave type player off the bench like Davis

 

[The_Jamal]

It might be worth it though. With unproven scorers like Williams the question is how much is he worth to you? He does have offensive skills and in college showed a more well rounded offensive game but lower production 3 and D guys do have a cap in value. That said, Williams is a great risk vs. reward player because if he can bring back some of those skills offensively he had in college along with his spot shooting and defense, he's a potential huge payoff for a team willing to gamble.

I just don't think Celts would be willing to match like a 17mil/season+ offer either. So many salary commitments already and they just don't have room for him when they're fully healthy. He's just exactly what the Kings need at the 4, especially with Keegan showing he can play the wing full-time.

I just keep going back and forth with Barnes and his long-term use with the Kings. He's such a good player when he's locked in and stays aggressive, but we're at like a 3-year trend now where he's like an elite 20 PPG scorer for a 8 game stretch and then is just perfectly fine fading back into being a low USG C&S spacer. So if Barnes isn't going to stay consistent offensively, I'd be very tempted to go get the massive upgrade on defense with Grant and still maintain the spacing with how Grant has shot the 3 the last 3 seasons. Also something to be said about adding a piece in Grant Williams, who is the same age as the rest of the core and won't be 25 until next season. So we'd have a real 3+ year window where we'd have the core locked up, assuming Monk and Sabonis re-up the following off-season. That's fairly exciting prospect as well

 

[206Fan]

This breakdown video has been floating in the Kings' subreddit:

we've got some glaring defensive issues