Contract extension for Divac + David Morway

2

206Fan

All-Star
#31
#31
Entity said:
that future first was traded about 3 years ago not this past offseason. and if we are in top 10 again this year then it becomes a 2nd rounder. as far as the pick swaps go. philly picks top 3 every year I doubt either of those will ever happen. so basically stauskas was traded.
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You're thinking of the Bulls pick. I'm talking about the Sixers. Sixers get 2 pick swaps in 2016 and 2017. Sixers also get a future 1st rounder. In 2018, it's top 10 protected. If they don't convey that pick, it becomes a 2019 unprotected.

Bricklayer said:
We traded a 2019 1st, which still has decent potential to be late teens and up. That's all we traded.
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It's conflicting because that Sixers trade has made things extremely difficult with our other trading too. Specifically, the pick swap. We needed the 76ers' approval just to lower our pick protection this year with the Bulls.

Giving away a future 1st round pick for 3-4 more wins this year doesn't seem like it was worth it. I feel like Vlade hit his panic button...Stauskas had an up/down rookie year, but you're telling me there wasn't at least 1 team in the NBA willing to take on JT's contract(only 1 year guaranteed) for Stauskas potential?

We gave up on a rookie+1st round pick in order to clear JT and Landry's contract. JT's contract isn't even guaranteed past this year. Seems like a really panic move to me in order to get rid of everything all at once.

Vlade can't afford to make any moves like this in this offseason. He can't continue to cripple this franchise's future.
I was really hoping he'd bring in a more qualified GM who's had a proven track record like Ferry, and take a backseat. However, there's a few signs pointing that Vlade will remain GM and Morray will be an advisor. In this case, I hope Vlade brings in more qualified guys to help him out.

My biggest fears this year is that he may try to trade our pick for a player at peak/decline...or he'll resign Rondo to a loaded contract.
 
gunks

gunks

Hall of Famer
#32
#32
206Fan said:
Valde's moves this offseason look horrible right now. We trade away a young player, future 1st, and 2 consecutive years of pick swaps to win 3-4 more games than last year?

Sixers fleeced us, and many are in denial about it. Of course I'd rather have Rondo, Kofus over Landry, Thompson...but not at the expense of what we gave up.

Vlade just needs to bring in a real GM. Reports were that he was looking at potential GMs during all star weekend.

I don't feel comfortable with moving forward with him as the GM. I was excited for Vlade, but now? Not so much. I have 0 problems with him as VP.
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I hated the Philly trade initially, changed my mind on it, and now I'm feeling like it was a safe gamble that didn't quite work out.

We gave up Landry, JT, and Nik. Landry is awful, JT has already been on 3 teams (is he still even in the league?) this past season, and Nik never should have even been drafted, but our idiot owner thought he and Ben were going to be the next Steph and Klay (dammit, Vivek)!

The pick swap will only hurt us if we win the lotto, which may happen with this franchises' luck, despite the .001 percent odds.

The Belli and KK signings made sense. KK is still a great backup to have. Vlade may have fell into the trap of getting a Spurs player who is crap out of the system, but we needed a vet SG. Rondo was an interesting, low risk, signing.

Vlade also drafted WCS, I don't think very many of us are regretting that pick.

I suppose that what I'm getting at is that Vlade wasn't perfect, but he didn't have a lot of wiggle room last summer and he still improved the roster.....

... only to have Karl crap all over everything.

Vlade got us the talent to win 40ish games, if not more, but our spiteful/tired/dementia suffering coach really tanked this season.

Oh, he also didn't pull the trigger on a Cousins trade. Gotta love that.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#33
#33
206Fan said:
My biggest fears this year is that he may try to trade our pick for a player at peak/decline...or he'll resign Rondo to a loaded contract.
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Both of which could be good moves.

1 new coach
1 new Ryan Anderson
1 potential trade of Rudy for a more 3 and D type wing
1 trade of the pick and Ben or Bels for a defensive SG

might be all the changes really needed

Of course if a rook can step right in, fine. But we can't wait.
 
SacKings384

SacKings384

Starter
#35
#35
Morway, who has been with the Pacers 10 years, has been serving as Senior Vice President/Basketball Operations for the team, overseeing the day-to-day operation and administration of the Basketball Division. As General Manager, he will retain his current duties and will assume additional responsibilities of overseeing salary cap issues as well as assisting Pacers President of Basketball Larry Bird with all personnel decisions.
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That's an important duty there. Vlade has admitted he doesn't know jack about how the cap works. Could have potentially kept him from making that awful Sixers trade.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#36
#36
SacKings384 said:
That's an important duty there. Vlade has admitted he doesn't know jack about how the cap works. Could have potentially kept him from making that awful Sixers trade.
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The Sixers trade showed he DID know how the cap worked. He dumped crap salary and signed two guys to below market deals just before a huge jump in the cap would have made them far more expensive.

BTW, I am not sure Vlade has said any such thing. Woj has said it repeatedly as part of his smear campaign. Repeat something often enough...
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#38
#38
Bricklayer said:
The Sixers trade showed he DID know how the cap worked. He dumped poopoo salary and signed two guys to below market deals just before a huge jump in the cap would have made them far more expensive.

BTW, I am not sure Vlade has said any such thing. Woj has said it repeatedly as part of his smear campaign. Repeat something often enough...
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To the best of my knowledge, you're exactly right. Vlade has said no such thing, at least not that I've seen and I pretty much hunt for anything even remotely related to Mr. Divac. :p
 
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biltalent

biltalent

Starter
#39
#39
Bricklayer said:
Both of which could be good moves.

1 new coach
1 new Ryan Anderson
1 potential trade of Rudy for a more 3 and D type wing
1 trade of the pick and Ben or Bels for a defensive SG

might be all the changes really needed

Of course if a rook can step right in, fine. But we can't wait.
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I think this is what likely is going to happen in the offseason. Of course it depends on how much money Anderson wants, what trades are available etc.
But I doubt there is going to be an overhaul. Vlade has repeatedly (and again today) said that he likes the roster he put together and that he feels that this is a playoff roster. He was the one to sign Rondo after his terrible season last year. He went out and signed Koufos and Belinelli. He has already made a big commitment to them with the Philly swap. He has repeatedly said that he wants a stretch 4 as well and since Anderson actually wants to play here you have to at least try to sign him.
And now Vlade got his multiyear extension. As cognitive dissonance theory suggests look for Karl to get dumped and Gay/Mclemore/Collison to get traded because those are not "Vlade's guys".
 
SacKings384

SacKings384

Starter
#40
#40
Bricklayer said:
The Sixers trade showed he DID know how the cap worked. He dumped poopoo salary and signed two guys to below market deals just before a huge jump in the cap would have made them far more expensive.

BTW, I am not sure Vlade has said any such thing. Woj has said it repeatedly as part of his smear campaign. Repeat something often enough...
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Touche on him not admitting it. But I also think the Sixers trade was awful. We'll probably escape the ramifications this year, but not sure about next year.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#43
#43
biltalent said:
I think this is what likely is going to happen in the offseason. Of course it depends on how much money Anderson wants, what trades are available etc.
But I doubt there is going to be an overhaul. Vlade has repeatedly (and again today) said that he likes the roster he put together and that he feels that this is a playoff roster. He was the one to sign Rondo after his terrible season last year. He went out and signed Koufos and Belinelli. He has already made a big commitment to them with the Philly swap. He has repeatedly said that he wants a stretch 4 as well and since Anderson actually wants to play here you have to at least try to sign him.
And now Vlade got his multiyear extension. As cognitive dissonance theory suggests look for Karl to get dumped and Gay/Mclemore/Collison to get traded because those are not "Vlade's guys".
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Note on the last, Collison may be a "Morway guy" though. Or at least once was. Since DC basically failed out of Indiana at the same time Morway did, unclear if he would see DC as the guy he and Bird traded for, or the guy who struggled as their starter the next two years.
 
biltalent

biltalent

Starter
#44
#44
Bricklayer said:
Note on the last, Collison may be a "Morway guy" though. Or at least once was. Since DC basically failed out of Indiana at the same time Morway did, unclear if he would see DC as the guy he and Bird traded for, or the guy who struggled as their starter the next two years.
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Give me a sec to find the article again, I read something on my phone today regarding this.

Edit: there it is:
The Pacers had expressed interest in Hill almost from the moment San Antonio drafted him out of Indianapolis-based IUPUI in 2008, according to executives with both teams. The Pacers had nearly traded for Hill during the 2010 draft, with their no. 10 pick as bait, but backed out when their preferred draft target - Paul George - was still on the board. But a year after that near deal, Indiana thought Hill would be the perfect caretaker point guard for Frank Vogel's new inside-out offense, especially since it was confident it would sign a true starting power forward once the oncoming lockout lifted.1

[1] Indiana also thought Hill would be a nice change of pace from the incumbent starter, Darren Collison, a shorter and quicker player with more traditional pick-and-roll skills, Morway says. They also had the sense they'd need a bigger point guard for defensive purposes in the playoffs, when teams pick away at any advantage they can find. "We knew that as we got deeper into the playoffs, it was going to be hard for Darren Collison to guard guys like Derrick Rose and Rajon Rondo for 40 minutes a night," he says.
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http://grantland.com/features/analyzing-kawhi-leonard-george-hill-trade-2013-conference-finals/

Honestly I don't know what to make of that. Maybe we will go after George Hill? I like him, so why not :)
 
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Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#45
#45
biltalent said:
Give me a sec to find the article again, I read something on my phone today regarding this.

Edit: there it is:

http://grantland.com/features/analyzing-kawhi-leonard-george-hill-trade-2013-conference-finals/

Honestly I don't know what to make of that. Maybe we will go after George Hill? I like him, so why not :)
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I wanted us to try for Hill this year. But sounded like Bird has him in a bear hug. And given that Bird wasn't speaking with Morway by the end, I doubt he'd even pick up our phone calls now. :p
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#46
#46
206Fan said:
This feels premature. We were in no rush to extend Vlade, so why do it now?

Question is, will Vlade remain the GM? Or will he get someone more qualified? During the AS, there were reports about him looking for a GM. http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/02/16...-in-gm-to-work-under-vlade-divac-this-summer/

I just don't feel comfortable with Vlade as the GM going forward.
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It's called stability! Are we supposed to go forward with a lame duck Vice President/GM, and let him hire an assistant GM and hire a new head coach? As they say, it starts at the top, and everyone below has to respect the man at the top and know he's in charge, and is here for the long haul. We've been a Mickey Mouse organization for too long. It's time for some stability...
 
biltalent

biltalent

Starter
#48
#48
Bricklayer said:
I wanted us to try for Hill this year. But sounded like Bird has him in a bear hug. And given that Bird wasn't speaking with Morway by the end, I doubt he'd even pick up our phone calls now. :p
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don't destroy my dreams :p Honestly though, I like what I read of Morway. Seems to be an "old-school" kind of guy that likes big guards instead of pacy guys and values defense and chemistry. He also was assistant GM for the Bucks and before he was let go this was actually part of their identity: play big, long guys 1-5 and defend. I can see him meshing well with Vlade.
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#49
#49
In all seriousness, I've been impressed with Indiana's front office over the years almost as much as San Antonio. They haven't been able to put a championship team together, but they're consistently competitive and they do it without spending a ton of money on marquee free agents or bottoming out and picking in the top 5. What they do instead is sign and draft players that other teams undervalue. They were on track to win a championship in the early 2000s before the Ron Artest situation blew up in their faces and they were able to rebuild and get back to the Eastern Conference Finals 8 years later without ever having a single season of less than 32 wins. The highest draft pick they had during that time period was #10 in 2010 which they turned into Paul George (the same year they picked up Lance Stephenson in the 2nd round). I certainly respect David Morway's track record in Indiana.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#51
#51
206Fan said:
Valde's moves this offseason look horrible right now. We trade away a young player, future 1st, and 2 consecutive years of pick swaps to win 3-4 more games than last year?

Sixers fleeced us, and many are in denial about it. Of course I'd rather have Rondo, Kofus over Landry, Thompson...but not at the expense of what we gave up.

Vlade just needs to bring in a real GM. Reports were that he was looking at potential GMs during all star weekend.

I don't feel comfortable with moving forward with him as the GM. I was excited for Vlade, but now? Not so much. I have 0 problems with him as VP.
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In other words you want Vlade to sit in his office and do nothing? Vlade's move with Philly was a little expensive, but if we had made the playoffs, and we should have, no one would be complaining. I don't have a problem with the switching of draft picks. It only happens if we are ahead of Philly in the draft, and barring a miracle, that's not likely to happen. So basically the expense is the draft pick, which we could probably get back by making a trade down the road.

Vlade is a good judge of talent, so I'm sure he can figure out who can help the team and who can't. The trick is to make it work financially. So that's the area where he needs some help. He needs a capoligist. Someone that can juggle numbers. By the way, I recommend Capt for the job.:rolleyes: Last off season Vlade was stuck with Karl, so most of his acquisitions were with Karl in mind. The question now is what kind of team does Vlade want to create. He's played in the triangle and in the motion offense under Adelman. One would think that's the direction he would lean toward. Cousins would fit perfectly in that type of offense.

As an aside, there's a mentality on this forum that results in knee jerk reactions to just about everything. A GM comes in and if he makes a mistake, we want him gone. Ditto a player, Coach, Owner etc. That mentality leads to instability, and that's been a major problem with this team. Petrie was credited for turning this team around, and rightly so, but when he came to the Kings, the fan base had never really tasted success. As a result, we didn't expect much, and as a result, Petrie was given time to accomplish the task. It didn't happen overnight, but, it did happen. Vlade isn't responsible for the sins of the past, and he deserves the time to get the job done.
 
fansinceday1

fansinceday1

Starter
#53
#53
206Fan said:
This feels premature. We were in no rush to extend Vlade, so why do it now?

Question is, will Vlade remain the GM? Or will he get someone more qualified? During the AS, there were reports about him looking for a GM. http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/02/16...-in-gm-to-work-under-vlade-divac-this-summer/

I just don't feel comfortable with Vlade as the GM going forward.
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This feels like perfect timing to me.
Now vlade and morway can get that coaching search underway and hopefully get that hire wrapped up before the draft.
 
L

Livinthedream

All-Star
#54
#54
206Fan said:
You're thinking of the Bulls pick. I'm talking about the Sixers. Sixers get 2 pick swaps in 2016 and 2017. Sixers also get a future 1st rounder. In 2018, it's top 10 protected. If they don't convey that pick, it becomes a 2019 unprotected.


It's conflicting because that Sixers trade has made things extremely difficult with our other trading too. Specifically, the pick swap. We needed the 76ers' approval just to lower our pick protection this year with the Bulls.

Giving away a future 1st round pick for 3-4 more wins this year doesn't seem like it was worth it. I feel like Vlade hit his panic button...Stauskas had an up/down rookie year, but you're telling me there wasn't at least 1 team in the NBA willing to take on JT's contract(only 1 year guaranteed) for Stauskas potential?

We gave up on a rookie+1st round pick in order to clear JT and Landry's contract. JT's contract isn't even guaranteed past this year. Seems like a really panic move to me in order to get rid of everything all at once.

Vlade can't afford to make any moves like this in this offseason. He can't continue to cripple this franchise's future.
I was really hoping he'd bring in a more qualified GM who's had a proven track record like Ferry, and take a backseat. However, there's a few signs pointing that Vlade will remain GM and Morray will be an advisor. In this case, I hope Vlade brings in more qualified guys to help him out.

My biggest fears this year is that he may try to trade our pick for a player at peak/decline...or he'll resign Rondo to a loaded contract.
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The Philly trade really was a bad deal. Knew it then, and the year confirmed it.

I don't mind Vlade in his current role as long as he gets and uses help. The hope is that we get enough experience with strong voices in the FO to prevent that from happening again. There are too many examples of teams trying to win now and giving away draft picks, only to realize they really can't buy a team and those picks would come in really handy. See both NY teams.
 
HndsmCelt

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#55
#55
Livinthedream said:
The Philly trade really was a bad deal. Knew it then, and the year confirmed it.

I don't mind Vlade in his current role as long as he gets and uses help. The hope is that we get enough experience with strong voices in the FO to prevent that from happening again. There are too many examples of teams trying to win now and giving away draft picks, only to realize they really can't buy a team and those picks would come in really handy. See both NY teams.
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Of course the flip side to that coin is how are all those pics working out for Philly? And in the end it was not pics that saves Cleveland it was the Return of the King. Ultimately pics are always a Gamble experienced quality players are what they are.
 
L

Livinthedream

All-Star
#56
#56
HndsmCelt said:
Of course the flip side to that coin is how are all those pics working out for Philly? And in the end it was not pics that saves Cleveland it was the Return of the King. Ultimately pics are always a Gamble experienced quality players are what they are.
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Both of those situations are unique. However, Cleveland used draft picks to get their best talent And to solidify roster once James came back.

Philly is not worth mentioning.
 
P

pdizo916

Bench
#57
#57
This is a good move. Vlade did a marvelous job with this roster but we had chemistry and coaching issue. The first thing I hope happens is that Vlade hires Thibdeau. I want to see what his defensive mind can do with this roster MINUS Rudy and Ben. (and i hope rondo comes back if we trade for a defensive SF and SG who can hit 3pointers. )
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#58
#58
MOD NOTE: The posts about Ryan Anderson have been moved to a Ryan Anderson thread already underway in the Personnel Moves section. :)
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#59
#59
fansinceday1 said:
This feels like perfect timing to me.
Now vlade and morway can get that coaching search underway and hopefully get that hire wrapped up before the draft.
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Yeah, ideally you want to have the new head coach in place before the draft. Actually, the sooner Vlade can hire a head coach, the better. It would be nice to have him here when we start working out players prior to the draft, which doesn't give Vlade a lot of time. Especially when a potential head coach is on a team that's still in the playoffs.
 
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