At what point is enough enough? (split)

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#91
at least the maloofs had an excuse... they were broke. whats the excuse for the current regime?
For me it's very easy: incompetence. Golden State and San Antonio built their teams through the draft. Curry, Thompson, Barnes, Green, they were all drafted. Parker, Duncan, Ginobili, Leonard too. We got Robinson instead of Drummond or Lillard, Jimmer instead of Klay or Leonard, even Evans instead of Curry (even if at the time that wasn't a mistake).
Good teams can draft, the Kings can't. And when they do, they just lose players for nothing (Evans and IT).
 
#92
I missed this entire thread due to the OP being blocked.

I guess that's the risk.

Not much to add, but I think the idea that if Demarcus got less Ts the Kings would be good is quite silly. Or if he complained less. Barkley had a career high 32 technicals his MVP season.

Plenty of stars get lots of technicals. It doesn't affect winning and losing in any significant way. Bitching to officials doesn't either. And I know, he doesn't get back on D and all that. That's valid.
 
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#93
It's enough when I think the players actions are out of line with the organization as a whole and he is costing us games as a result.

As of right now, I think Cousins actions are a result of the environment combined with his personality. If the environment was better, his on court demeanor would reflect more positively. It doesn't help us that he's throwing fits, but it's a symptom of the team problem, not the cause.


On a side note, is it a popular thing to block people? I wonder who is blocking me. Probably @Chubbs
 
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#94
It's enough when I think the players actions are out of line with the organization as a whole and he is costing us games as a result.

As of right now, I think Cousins actions are a result of the environment combined with his personality. If the environment was better, his on court demeanor would reflect more positively. It doesn't help us that he's throwing fits, but it's a symptom of the team problem, not the cause.


On a side note, is it a popular thing to block people? I wonder who is blocking me. Probably @Chubbs...
I hope you realize I'm not liking this because someone is blocking you but because of what you said about the environment .............
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#96
On a side note, is it a popular thing to block people? I wonder who is blocking me. Probably @Chubbs
The IGNORE feature allows posters to choose not to read the posts of particular members. The benefit is that if you know someone irritates the crap out of you and don't want to have to deal with it, you can just opt not to see their comments. The downfall is that, as Chubbs pointed out, if you do put them on your IGNORE list and they start a thread, you won't be able to see it.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#97
Are you willing to stipulate that, while some Kings Fans acknowledge that Cousins' circumstances are not an "excuse" for his behavior, at the same time, Kings Fans do not all agree that his behavior has (or should have) exceeded our tolerance level?

The reason why I ask is because, whenever people talk about "making excuses" for Cousins' behavior, I feel like there is this subtext within those comments that involve an additional demand to concede that the behavior is therefore unacceptable.
Sure, I'm willing to stipulate that. I'm simply stating my tolerance level. I realize that everyone's tolerance level is different. As I stated earlier to VF21. If Cousins actions are acceptable to her, then there's no point in having further conversation. To me, there's justification for his frustration and anger, but not for how he acted those feelings out. But I understand everyone doesn't see it the same way I do.

Look, we all come from different backgrounds. We all grew up differently and with different core values. That's what makes the world go around. I think I'm right, and you think your right. Sometimes we agree and sometimes we don't. In which case I'm right of course! :rolleyes: Anyway, I'll leave it at that, and yes, I was alive when Wilt played, and while he did only play for three teams, he played for Philly two different times. After three years in Philly, the team that drafted him, he was traded to the Warriors because the owner didn't like Wilt's attitude. He spent two and half years with the Warriors and was then traded back to Philly, under new ownership for Nate Thrumand. Then later in his career he was traded to the Lakers where he won his second championship. For a lot of Wilt's career, he played on teams with average talent. He put up huge numbers, but didn't win. It's wasn't until Wilt got some talent around him, but more importantly, changed his game that his teams started to win.

If you go back and look at all the years Wilt played it really illustrates how valuable he was to his teams. On his return to Philly and playing with players like Billy Cunningham, and Hal Greer they won around 55 to 60 games. The one year that Wilt was injured and only played in around 15 or so games, the went right down the dumper. Same thing when he went to LA and played with West, Baylor, and Happy Hairston, they went from winning 60 games a year to winnng only 47 or 48 games. Wilt only played in around 12 or 13 games that season due to injury. When I said Wilt changed his game, I meant he became more of a team player instead of a stat player. By no means am I implying that he was trying to put up big stats, but that he thought he had to win every game by himself.

I think if we could put Cousins in a situation where he wasn't expected to be the savior every night, but a big part of the total answer, he'd be a better player. In fairness to him, I think he's learning how to do that. But I acknowledge your point, that it would be easier for him to do that if he had better talent around him.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#99
So if I throw a temper tantrum the only thing that matters to you is that I threw the tantrum and not what led up to it? Fine. Behavior has consequences, which is what you're saying (I think) but there are also REASONS (not excuses) for behavior that should also be taken into consideration if you're going to view the entire picture and not just zero in on one particular part.

You and I could continue this forever and clearly not ever see it from the other person's point of view. I see you as being very rigid and unwilling to consider reasons, and I guess you probably view me as being too soft-hearted.

Have a good evening, Dennis. We'll just have to agree that we vehemently disagree in this regard.

In passing, I did put a :p at the bottom of my previous post to indicate I was not trying to be confrontational, etc. I guess you missed that.
I never consider you as being confrontational. I don't take any of this stuff personally. My last comment on this subject is that there's a difference between between Empathy, and condoning. I have great empathy for Cousins, but I don't condone his actions.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I missed this entire thread due to the OP being blocked.

I guess that's the risk.

Not much to add, but I think the idea that if Demarcus got less Ts the Kings would be good is quite silly. Or if he complained less. Barkley had a career high 32 technicals his MVP season.

Plenty of stars get lots of technicals. It doesn't affect winning and losing in any significant way. Bitching to officials doesn't either. And I know, he doesn't get back on D and all that. That's valid.
Well, the part of not getting back on D is directly related to bitching at ref's. As posted in another thread a couple of weeks ago, I took the time to focus in totally on Cuz and how many times I saw him taking the time to complain to the ref while the ball was going the other direction, and how a basket was either scored, or missed before he even got down to that end of the floor. So lets say 10 baskets are scored by the other team in that situation, and if Cousins had gotten back, that only 45% of those baskets would have been scored. That would mean around 6 baskets were scored that shouldn't have. Lets say they were all two point baskets. That's 12 points that were scored that shouldn't have been scored. How many games have we lost by 11 points or less?

You see my point. This is all hypothetical of course, and maybe even a little exaggerated. But it's the little things in a game that sometimes are the difference between winning and losing. Some things you can't control, but some things you can, and bitching to a ref is one of those things. By the way, I counted 11 times during that game that were notable on televison where Cousins didn't get back in time. Our defense is terrible with five players on defense. With four, it's impossible.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
I never consider you as being confrontational. I don't take any of this stuff personally. My last comment on this subject is that there's a difference between between Empathy, and condoning. I have great empathy for Cousins, but I don't condone his actions.
And my last comment is that you keep saying I condone his actions, I accept what he's doing, etc. I DO NOT. It drives me nuts BUT I believe I understand what's leading to those actions and I firmly believe they're fixable with the right coach, right atmosphere, etc. He could become the perfect teammate and we'd still lose as long as the other stuff isn't fixed.

Qué tengas un buen día, mi amigo!
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
It's enough when I think the players actions are out of line with the organization as a whole and he is costing us games as a result.

As of right now, I think Cousins actions are a result of the environment combined with his personality. If the environment was better, his on court demeanor would reflect more positively. It doesn't help us that he's throwing fits, but it's a symptom of the team problem, not the cause.


On a side note, is it a popular thing to block people? I wonder who is blocking me. Probably @Chubbs
It really seems to be popular to tell the whole board how cool you are by saying you blocked or are going to block someone.....there's a number of people who do this to show how 'superior" they are.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
... and yes, I was alive when Wilt played, and while he did only play for three teams, he played for Philly two different times. After three years in Philly, the team that drafted him, he was traded to the Warriors because the owner didn't like Wilt's attitude. He spent two and half years with the Warriors and was then traded back to Philly, under new ownership for Nate Thrumand. Then later in his career he was traded to the Lakers where he won his second championship
I don't think that this is right. Or, at least, Basketball-Reference.com doesn't think so. According to them, Chamberlain was drafted by the Philadelphia Warriors in 1959, remained with the team when they relocated from Philadelphia to San Francisco in 1962, and became the San Francisco Warriors (so, not traded). He was then subsequently traded from the Warriors to the expansion 76ers, in 1965.

I think the confusion may be that you are thinking that he was drafted by the Sixers, then traded to the Warriors, and subsequently traded back to the Sixers; he was not. Not according to B-R.com, anyway. He was never traded 'to' the Warriors, he was always there.
 
It's enough when I think the players actions are out of line with the organization as a whole and he is costing us games as a result.

As of right now, I think Cousins actions are a result of the environment combined with his personality. If the environment was better, his on court demeanor would reflect more positively. It doesn't help us that he's throwing fits, but it's a symptom of the team problem, not the cause.


On a side note, is it a popular thing to block people? I wonder who is blocking me. Probably @Chubbs
I have one person blocked.

I only mentioned it because the software blocked the whole thread. I didn't think it would work that way.

Or is it because I feel "superior" and bragging about it to people I don't know on the internet makes me feel better? I guess only I will know.
 
Well, the part of not getting back on D is directly related to bitching at ref's. As posted in another thread a couple of weeks ago, I took the time to focus in totally on Cuz and how many times I saw him taking the time to complain to the ref while the ball was going the other direction, and how a basket was either scored, or missed before he even got down to that end of the floor. So lets say 10 baskets are scored by the other team in that situation, and if Cousins had gotten back, that only 45% of those baskets would have been scored. That would mean around 6 baskets were scored that shouldn't have. Lets say they were all two point baskets. That's 12 points that were scored that shouldn't have been scored. How many games have we lost by 11 points or less?

You see my point. This is all hypothetical of course, and maybe even a little exaggerated. But it's the little things in a game that sometimes are the difference between winning and losing. Some things you can't control, but some things you can, and bitching to a ref is one of those things. By the way, I counted 11 times during that game that were notable on televison where Cousins didn't get back in time. Our defense is terrible with five players on defense. With four, it's impossible.
What can be done? It frustrates the hell out of me too. I sometimes just want him traded so we can get back to losing without talent. That I understood. Oh, Kmart is our best player. Well, we are going to suck. No surprises there.

This is just brutal. Watching Cuz is both exhilarating and a royal pain, usually at the same time. It's very very frustrating. There's just gobs of talent. And then these issues. He won't get back on offense even at times, shows up late, takes the ball at the top of the key, and then just dunks on everyone. And you're left just in awe and also bewildered at the whole thing.

But without the great part of Cuz, if we were to trade him, I don't know I'd watch the team at all. There's not much else and hadn't been for some time. When rondo sat out last game, it was just so glaring how little Cuz was trying, but also at the same time, how dramatically more talented he was than any other King. Even Rudy.

I'm not going to tune in to watch Rudy if he's all that's left and they trade cuz and rondo walks. There'd have to be a whole lot coming back. Draft picks? First/second year guys? Just not interested.
 
I have one person blocked.

I only mentioned it because the software blocked the whole thread. I didn't think it would work that way.

Or is it because I feel "superior" and bragging about it to people I don't know on the internet makes me feel better? I guess only I will know.
You're good. I was joking about you, but I use emoticons sparingly, so no smiley face.

Unless you really do feel superior and you are bragging. In that case, I'm not joking.
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
For me it's very easy: incompetence. Golden State and San Antonio built their teams through the draft. Curry, Thompson, Barnes, Green, they were all drafted. Parker, Duncan, Ginobili, Leonard too. We got Robinson instead of Drummond or Lillard, Jimmer instead of Klay or Leonard, even Evans instead of Curry (even if at the time that wasn't a mistake).
Good teams can draft, the Kings can't. And when they do, they just lose players for nothing (Evans and IT).
While I agree with you, I don't think I'd say incompetence is an excuse. The whole point of an excuse is that you can rationalize it.....

Incompetence. ... That's not so much our franchise's excuse as it is it's identity.
 
The problem with Kings fans in general is that they are so far up their you know what to have a clear mind. Too much of "goodie two shoes" syndrome out there. They don't know a good thing when they have one and place values on completely irrelevant things in sport. They think that DeMarcus Cousins is the root of all evil because he wears heart on his sleeve and he doesn't suffer fools. Personally, those are the traits I highly respect in people. There is no bullcrap, there is no two faced approach of smiling to your face and stabbing you in the back as soon as you turn around.

He calls it as he sees it and if people get offended by it, it means that they found themselves in that talk and truth hurts. There is no malice in anything DMC has done but because he wears his heart on his sleeve, it gets played out in public. In the age of non-opinions and political correctness its seen as cancer. I see that as bullcrap. Speak your mind, be true to yourself, wear your heart on the sleeve. Don't be anything tother han who you normally are. If people don't like that, well bad luck. You can't please everyone.

Truth is that Cousins is less of a drama queen than 90% of stars out there, the only difference is that he is not two faced. He calls it as he sees it and wears the heart on his sleeve. I have no problem with that but goodie two shoes, politically correct brigade out there does. They couldn't wait to drive Chris Webber out of town, and they can't wait to drive Cousins out of town because, you know, they are bad role models for their kids. Here is a fact for you, parents should be role models for their kids, not sport stars. If you think otherwise, I would suggest you start looking in your own backyard first before you start bashing sportsmen and sportswomen for not being the right role models for your kids. They are your kids, not theirs and you are responsible to instill enough good values in them and show them the right from wrong. You lead the way, not someone they watch on the basketball court or on TV.

Man up and suck it up I say!
 
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VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
At what point is enough enough? When the thread dissolves into personal attacks, name-calling, more anger than frustration, etc.

I'm closing this.
 
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