2016 NBA Draft Discussion
- Thread starter Dime Dropper
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Definitely too early to tell, but we can be reasonably sure that the first round of the 2017 draft will be littered with quality PG prospects and we'll have no PGs left under contract after this season. At that point you'd really have to be trying to miss on all of them (or lose your pick because of a trade that happened 6 years earlier...) It seems a bit premature to be rooting for losses already 
so I'll just say that another losing season wouldn't be the worst thing the world right now. You can do everything wrong for 10 years and it'll be forgotten once you start winning. If we get an All-Star PG in the door, however we do it, nobody is going to even remember how many guys we passed on (well, unless they happen to win an MVP award playing 90 miles away -- that kind of thing is hard to ignore).
so I'll just say that another losing season wouldn't be the worst thing the world right now. You can do everything wrong for 10 years and it'll be forgotten once you start winning. If we get an All-Star PG in the door, however we do it, nobody is going to even remember how many guys we passed on (well, unless they happen to win an MVP award playing 90 miles away -- that kind of thing is hard to ignore).
This is the darkest timeline. I had a huge meltdown on here during the draft...... I just pretend that the draft never happened. Instead, I just look at Papagiannis, Skal, and Richardson as talented young players who we acquired somehow....
Can I petition to burn this thread down?
I don't mind the trade down, but what Vlade did with the assets is really what upset me. Papagiannis and Labissiere? Why? Still no logical explanation for the picks, but whatever I guess.
Don't trust Vlade's talent evaluation at all. Not even sure why he decided to try to hype up Papagiannis after selecting him. Trying to say Papagiannis would have the same impact as WCS(arguably most NBA ready player coming out of the draft) was a straight up lie. Overweight 7fter who couldn't post up 6'8 undersized PFs in the SL? yeah ok.
Can I petition to burn this thread down?
I don't mind the trade down, but what Vlade did with the assets is really what upset me. Papagiannis and Labissiere? Why? Still no logical explanation for the picks, but whatever I guess.
Don't trust Vlade's talent evaluation at all. Not even sure why he decided to try to hype up Papagiannis after selecting him. Trying to say Papagiannis would have the same impact as WCS(arguably most NBA ready player coming out of the draft) was a straight up lie. Overweight 7fter who couldn't post up 6'8 undersized PFs in the SL? yeah ok.
K
Great to see someone finally agrees with me. I think Vlade is in over his head and has no clue what he is doing. Everyone gives him a pass because he is a loved former player. If PDA had drafted WCS over Mudiay he would be run out of town, same with the Papa deal. Hopefully in time he learns from his mistakes but he works for an Owner who loves him -- and Vlade is going no where.
I don't think it's fair to say Vlade doesn't know what he is doing. At the time, Cauley Stein was exactly what the Kings were looking for in a shot blocking big, as we know....bigs do take a bit longer to come around than guards/forwards. I think we need to give Stein another two seasons to really see if he should of picked Mudiay. Second, Nobody liked the Papa pick, I think Vlade's incentive was to acquire Bogdan to be honest...I loved the Skal pick, he can be a productive ball player IMO, Malachi we shall see. Give it some time here, we need stability in the worst way, let Vlade learn and grow with the team, he might surprise us all for all we know.
Preseason barely means anything, but I will still post some stats:
Kris Dunn - 4.4ast/2.8TO, 1.6FTA
Wade Baldwin - 4ast/1.8TO, 5.2FTA
Pat McCaw: 11.4P(9/20 on 3s)+2.6R+2.6A+1.6S in 23.6minutes - that's your future Doug Christie
Troy Williams, who has excellent defensive potential, is also the leading rookie scorer this preseason, as he gets to the line (3rd among rookies behind Embiid and Baldwin) and now apparently can shoot, to some extent at least.
Kris Dunn - 4.4ast/2.8TO, 1.6FTA
Wade Baldwin - 4ast/1.8TO, 5.2FTA
Pat McCaw: 11.4P(9/20 on 3s)+2.6R+2.6A+1.6S in 23.6minutes - that's your future Doug Christie
Troy Williams, who has excellent defensive potential, is also the leading rookie scorer this preseason, as he gets to the line (3rd among rookies behind Embiid and Baldwin) and now apparently can shoot, to some extent at least.
Baldwin would look good on this roster right about now. I think there was a fair amount of people wanting him at the time Papagiannis was picked (including myself). That's not to say that I don't think Papagiannis can't or won't be a good player (since I rarely follow international ball), but Baldwin's style of play seemed like it would fit well with this current team due to his defense, length, versatility, shooting, and off-ball ability.
Think about a long term team that had this makeup...
PG - Baldwin (3&D)
SG - Richardson (3&D)
SF - Bogdanovic (Ginobli)
PF - Labissiere (Ibaka)
C - Cousins / Cauley-Stein (D. Jordan)
Obviously, there's a lot of question marks and this is banking on everyone reaching their potential, but that would be an exciting group to watch if they all hit. Bogdanovic is iffy at SF, but given his standing reach is 8'8" and he's not considered the best of athletes at SG, perhaps SF might be a bettere fit for him as he continues to get stronger.
Think about a long term team that had this makeup...
PG - Baldwin (3&D)
SG - Richardson (3&D)
SF - Bogdanovic (Ginobli)
PF - Labissiere (Ibaka)
C - Cousins / Cauley-Stein (D. Jordan)
Obviously, there's a lot of question marks and this is banking on everyone reaching their potential, but that would be an exciting group to watch if they all hit. Bogdanovic is iffy at SF, but given his standing reach is 8'8" and he's not considered the best of athletes at SG, perhaps SF might be a bettere fit for him as he continues to get stronger.
I liked (and still like) Dunn a lot more than Baldwin but I was big on WB4 as a George Hill like combo guard. I thought for sure after the trade down the he was the target at 13.
I liked McCaw more than Richardson. But then I also liked Beasley, Luwawu, Bembry and LaVert more than Richardson.
I am definitely rooting for Malachi and he's shown more flashes of being a 3&D wing than I thought he would but he was one of my least favorite prospects in this last draft.
I thought Labissiere was a great gamble at 28.
But Baldwin, McCaw and Labissiere would have been quite a haul.
I liked McCaw more than Richardson. But then I also liked Beasley, Luwawu, Bembry and LaVert more than Richardson.
I am definitely rooting for Malachi and he's shown more flashes of being a 3&D wing than I thought he would but he was one of my least favorite prospects in this last draft.
I thought Labissiere was a great gamble at 28.
But Baldwin, McCaw and Labissiere would have been quite a haul.
Thanks This summarizes my attitude succinctly as well. I certainly wouldn't scoff at a long-awaited return to the playoffs however we can get it, but the league didn't get any less competitive this year. The draft is a fun diversion when the team is actually winning, it's damn near essential when they're not.
I'd like to think that the ever present dysfunction is waning, but we've heard those promises before. Here's a sobering thought: last season was still salvageable in February with a playoff spot within reach until some bizarre and still unexplained ownership struggle kept a somnambulent George Karl on the bench even after it was so obvious that he needed to be fired that Bobby Jackson bluntly demanded it on the air in a post-game show. Mere weeks later Rudy Gay and Ben McLemore had both demanded trades and the playoffs were a distant memory. All of the people who bungled that decision are still running things and this year's draft and free agency period were equally alarming to me. So they've got a lot to prove in my mind.
My issue is with leadership though, it doesn't extend to the players. One lesson I've learned as a fan of the Oakland A's is to move on quickly from roster changes. Fan favorites will be traded and new players will emerge to take their place. I get mad at that front office too when they get cheap and/or desperate, but they dig up enough gems to keep things interesting. I think a good number of Kings fans should try to adopt that same attitude. We're never going to have another Webber, Vlade, Peja, JWill, Mitch, Bobby, Doug, or Mike and that's okay. DeMarcus Cousins' time in Sacramento may just be ramping up or it may be coming to an end and that's okay too. Exciting new All-Stars are entering the league every year and re-defining franchises. It's time to let go of all the disappointment and just appreciate the simple joy of a well-executed play without all the baggage that surrounds it, root for the rookies to find themselves as professionals (what Kings fan isn't a little bit proud of Hassan Whiteside for achieving NBA stardom, even if it's in another uniform? we believed in you big guy!), and stop keeping tabs on all the great players we didn't draft because time marches on in the land of the living and that's a pretty good place to be. I'm saying this as much to myself as anyone else, btw. I'm mad but I'm not crazy. And I'm already picturing a much brighter future.
This summarizes my attitude succinctly as well. I certainly wouldn't scoff at a long-awaited return to the playoffs however we can get it, but the league didn't get any less competitive this year. The draft is a fun diversion when the team is actually winning, it's damn near essential when they're not. I'd like to think that the ever present dysfunction is waning, but we've heard those promises before. Here's a sobering thought: last season was still salvageable in February with a playoff spot within reach until some bizarre and still unexplained ownership struggle kept a somnambulent George Karl on the bench even after it was so obvious that he needed to be fired that Bobby Jackson bluntly demanded it on the air in a post-game show. Mere weeks later Rudy Gay and Ben McLemore had both demanded trades and the playoffs were a distant memory. All of the people who bungled that decision are still running things and this year's draft and free agency period were equally alarming to me. So they've got a lot to prove in my mind.
My issue is with leadership though, it doesn't extend to the players. One lesson I've learned as a fan of the Oakland A's is to move on quickly from roster changes. Fan favorites will be traded and new players will emerge to take their place. I get mad at that front office too when they get cheap and/or desperate, but they dig up enough gems to keep things interesting. I think a good number of Kings fans should try to adopt that same attitude. We're never going to have another Webber, Vlade, Peja, JWill, Mitch, Bobby, Doug, or Mike and that's okay. DeMarcus Cousins' time in Sacramento may just be ramping up or it may be coming to an end and that's okay too. Exciting new All-Stars are entering the league every year and re-defining franchises. It's time to let go of all the disappointment and just appreciate the simple joy of a well-executed play without all the baggage that surrounds it, root for the rookies to find themselves as professionals (what Kings fan isn't a little bit proud of Hassan Whiteside for achieving NBA stardom, even if it's in another uniform? we believed in you big guy!), and stop keeping tabs on all the great players we didn't draft because time marches on in the land of the living and that's a pretty good place to be. I'm saying this as much to myself as anyone else, btw. I'm mad but I'm not crazy. And I'm already picturing a much brighter future.
Thanks for posting this! Good stuff. The knock on him is going to continue to be his slight frame (especially in comparison to the bigger guards in this year's draft) but that was what everyone said about Steph Curry too and the state of the NBA has changed over the past 10 years to favor speed and ball control more than brute strength. I could still see Fox going top 5 if his shooting numbers are good this season -- especially playing at Kentucky where he's going to get maximum exposure for better or worse -- but if the jumper is streaky, down around 6-10 is more likely his range. It's fun seeing a prized prospect playing full-court defense in an exhibition game. I hope he can maintain that energy level once the season starts.
K
He should be ripped for about every move he has made so far. The fact Tolliver is making 8 million is ridiculous. Mudiay is tearing it up this year but we chose WCS who is just a bad player. And now Marquis Chriss is 19 years old and has six points already on the Clippers. We could have a 20 year old solid point guard and a 19 year old young stud but instead we have a crappy C and a bunch of rookies that are offering NOTHING
Interesting nugget for those who liked and wanted us to draft Baldwin: Apparently Joerger thought so too! At least thats what Baldwin is implying:
"If things played out a bit differently, Wade Baldwin may not have landed with the Memphis Grizzlies. But he sure is happy he did.
“During the process, I thought I was going to Sacramento,” Baldwin told Basketball Insiders. “Coach [Dave] Joerger really liked me. And then the night before [the draft], I really thought I was going to Chicago.”
http://www.basketballinsiders.com/wade-baldwin-finding-niche-in-memphis/
"If things played out a bit differently, Wade Baldwin may not have landed with the Memphis Grizzlies. But he sure is happy he did.
“During the process, I thought I was going to Sacramento,” Baldwin told Basketball Insiders. “Coach [Dave] Joerger really liked me. And then the night before [the draft], I really thought I was going to Chicago.”
http://www.basketballinsiders.com/wade-baldwin-finding-niche-in-memphis/
I don't think it's a conditioning thing. He was the same hot and cold player in college. That's what made me nervous about drafting him in the first place. He'll have his big nights but then he'll be quiet for awhile. He had a nice little run toward the middle of the season last year where he flashed the potential for something more but he's always going to be a player who relies on others to create his shots for him in the half-court and we let our elite playmaker leave so what would you expect? Comparing him to guys we could have drafted like Mudiay, Booker, Johnson or Turner right now is really missing the point though. Those guys are all 3 years younger and just starting to show their potential. Cauley-Stein was never an elite high-ceiling prospect, he was a fit pick. He's just a little too inexperienced to find a role in Joerger's system right now. If he works hard he'll figure that out over the course of the season. And 4 games played so far this year for Cauley-Stein is hardly a fair sample by which to judge anyone. I've always argued for high-ceiling swing for the fences picks in the draft and the Kings never seem to draft that way (with predictable results), so it is what it is.
Until this year, the last time in the past five years we picked on potential and swung for the fences was Ben McLemore, who to his credit finally seems to at least have realized he's on a basketball court.
This year, for better or worse, Vlade seems to have thought Papagiannis had a lot potential and swung for the fences. Same with Malachi, who comes out of a system notorious for not getting players ready for the NBA. Skal is another one of those guys in that he was once the projected number one pick but after a flubbed year of college came off as a damaged lottery ticket.
This year, for better or worse, Vlade seems to have thought Papagiannis had a lot potential and swung for the fences. Same with Malachi, who comes out of a system notorious for not getting players ready for the NBA. Skal is another one of those guys in that he was once the projected number one pick but after a flubbed year of college came off as a damaged lottery ticket.
Ben was a risky bet on potential, but he wasn't an elite high school prospect either it was just a weak draft. Nerlens Noel was the elite prospect there but we missed him by 1 pick (yeah, I'm still mad...). I liked the Ben pick mostly because an off-the-ball marksman seemed like an ideal compliment to a high-usage combo guard like Tyreke and I thought we were building a team around Tyreke and DeMarcus. Then we traded Tyreke immediately after the draft and tried to hype McLemore up as a future star which is like asking Robin to replace Batman. It just doesn't work that way. We completely botched his development by asking him to handle the ball from day 1 instead of treating him like a Reggie Miller designated shooter and asking him to focus on using screens to get open and focusing on shooting form.
I'm hoping that Vlade knows something we don't about Papagiannis (who doesn't look like first round talent so far) and Bogdanovic (who does look like a solid all-around player). Skal definitely fits the bill of an elite prospect but he was basically our 4th pick of the round so that's more of a "why the heck not" free pass than swinging for the fences. Malachi is pretty typical of a late first rounder (which was more than we deserved for ending the Belinelli experience early). The choice of the 23 year old Bogdanovic and picks instead of the 18 year old Chriss was more of the same to me -- going with safer mid-level talent instead of risky but elite talent.
The part that doesn't make sense to me is that we can be terrible for 10 straight years and maybe 2 of those years we finally said screw it, we're winning 20 games and trying to draft a superstar. Every other year we seem to be thinking "this is our year" and going with guys who are supposedly ready to play a role right away because we don't have time to develop players. That's madness! Even at the height of their dominance the Spurs still drafted projects and found them roles. Smart teams know that talent is talent and taking a few years to develop an All-Star is always worth it. It's not like the "NBA ready" prospects we're drafting instead are actually helping us win anyway.
I'm hoping that Vlade knows something we don't about Papagiannis (who doesn't look like first round talent so far) and Bogdanovic (who does look like a solid all-around player). Skal definitely fits the bill of an elite prospect but he was basically our 4th pick of the round so that's more of a "why the heck not" free pass than swinging for the fences. Malachi is pretty typical of a late first rounder (which was more than we deserved for ending the Belinelli experience early). The choice of the 23 year old Bogdanovic and picks instead of the 18 year old Chriss was more of the same to me -- going with safer mid-level talent instead of risky but elite talent.
The part that doesn't make sense to me is that we can be terrible for 10 straight years and maybe 2 of those years we finally said screw it, we're winning 20 games and trying to draft a superstar. Every other year we seem to be thinking "this is our year" and going with guys who are supposedly ready to play a role right away because we don't have time to develop players. That's madness! Even at the height of their dominance the Spurs still drafted projects and found them roles. Smart teams know that talent is talent and taking a few years to develop an All-Star is always worth it. It's not like the "NBA ready" prospects we're drafting instead are actually helping us win anyway.
Sorry if I'm late to the party on this one but I saw this concerning quote from Bogdanovic
"But I rejected Phoenix Suns’ offer because, let’s be honest, I don’t want to go to NBA without a Euroleague trophy"
Does his team have a shot this year to win? I assumed Vlade possibly had some inside info and knew Bogdanovic wanted to come over next season. When do people expect him to be in the NBA by? Sorry if this has already been discussed
"But I rejected Phoenix Suns’ offer because, let’s be honest, I don’t want to go to NBA without a Euroleague trophy"
Does his team have a shot this year to win? I assumed Vlade possibly had some inside info and knew Bogdanovic wanted to come over next season. When do people expect him to be in the NBA by? Sorry if this has already been discussed