Your thoughts: Petrie/Westphal

[PurpleHaze]

Well, if that happens, that pretty much guarantees that no self-respecting free agent will sign with us in the offseason, and anyone we acquire in a trade will be majorly pissed off for being sent here and will most likely not contribute to the locker room atmosphere. As long as Westphal is around, the chaos will continue and just grow, and we will remain the joke of the NBA. And that's before even talking about the mental damage done to our players this season.

Of course, new CBA whenever that happens will be affecting all of this. I think my point is that everything now looks like Westphal survives until end of season, 04/11. I would not be surprised if in last month they replaced him with interim Eyen or even Elie. They could then get a jump on the interview process to select a new "dynamic" head coach quickly (maybe Calipari) instead of waiting so late into mid-summer. Meanwhile, Petrie is bought out or just retires with some golden parachute if they find someone of his stature - hard to do unless you pay the really big bucks. To take it further, maybe Coachie finally retires and Petrie sits behind the bench back there in his reserved place. I mean afterall, Geoff's been standing like a statue in the tunnel for decades - it's about time he sits.

 

[Section 101]

Of course, new CBA whenever that happens will be affecting all of this. I think my point is that everything now looks like Westphal survives until end of season, 04/11. I would not be surprised if in last month they replaced him with interim Eyen or even Elie. They could then get a jump on the interview process to select a new "dynamic" head coach quickly (maybe Calipari) instead of waiting so late into mid-summer. Meanwhile, Petrie is bought out or just retires with some golden parachute if they find someone of his stature - hard to do unless you pay the really big bucks. To take it further, maybe Coachie finally retires and Petrie sits behind the bench back there in his reserved place. I mean afterall, Geoff's been standing like a statue in the tunnel for decades - it's about time he sits.

He has been the past few games with BJax next to him. It's right next to his standing spot.

 

[hrdboild]

...to select a new "dynamic" head coach quickly (maybe Calipari).

Now that's an interesting idea. I thought he basically signed his life away to Kentucky already and denied any interest in coaching the NBA though. I wonder if Evans and Cousins would be for or against it? Both of them seemed to like the guy when they left college but maybe they were just glad to be rid of him.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

I have felt for years that Geoff Petrie was overrated big time. He was brilliant to sign Vlade and stick to his guns on CWebb. Since then he has been average minus, especially the way he meandered through the rebuild with all the MLE garbage he signed along the way.

I have felt he was just flying blind for several years now and don't feel any affection or loyalty to him any more. He's got lots of people drinking lots of kool-aid, but when he betrayed coach Adelman he lost me for good.

Westphal, benching Cousins over the choke sign was ridiculous. The ONE AND ONLY THING GOING RIGHT was that Cousins was starting to play pretty well and you bench him over that??? There's the door loser. Showing up players like you're Phil Jackson... you're a wannabe Paul. Just go.

At this point any change would almost by definition be a change in the right direction because this team is lost. I want a new GM and a new coach.

*By the way some people will want to give Petrie credit for recent drafts. My answer to that - I would have made the exact same two first round picks - that does not make me GM material.

no offense but the MLE garbage he signed was to appease the ownership who felt they could still stay competitive with b52, bibby and stojakovic. the team should have been dismantled earlier to begin the rebuild.

what kool aid are you drinking? he betrayed adelman? the maloofs were the ones that made that decision. they are the ones listening to the whispers from ppl about defense wins championships. peja for artest gamble? musselman blew away the owners w/ his book and killer powerpoint presentation. reggie theus w/ his new mexico ties got the nod from maloofs. does anybody remember whisenet being considered as head coach for the kings? who endorses these? petrie, maloofs?

 

[Big Cuz 15]

imo Petrie's job was to talk Maloofs out of firing Adelman in fact he should have stood in front of those tanks imo and said "if he goes, I go". I'd like to see Petrie replaced with a GM who has a spine, not a yes man.

lulz. OK

yes lets hire david kahn

 

[Big Cuz 15]

I think Petrie deserves to be kept until the end of the season, at least. Personally, I would allow him to do his thing after the CBA is established, and see how that season starts to play out. If we spend our $$$, get a high pick and it starts to crumble AGAIN with a new coach...then I would fire him. But for now, I think this team will immediately improve when Westfail is fired.

1. Fire Westfail after New Years
2. Give the new coach a month to determine his starting lineup and rotation
3. Make trades based on what he thinks fits and who should go

Do NOT trade for players fit for Westfail, because it's only a matter of time before he's fired.

get a head coach that knows how to utilize a players strengths.. not a headcoach that will play a player like thompson at SF or SG.

 

[John Galt]

no offense but the MLE garbage he signed was to appease the ownership who felt they could still stay competitive with b52, bibby and stojakovic. the team should have been dismantled earlier to begin the rebuild.

what kool aid are you drinking? he betrayed adelman? the maloofs were the ones that made that decision. they are the ones listening to the whispers from ppl about defense wins championships. peja for artest gamble? musselman blew away the owners w/ his book and killer powerpoint presentation. reggie theus w/ his new mexico ties got the nod from maloofs. does anybody remember whisenet being considered as head coach for the kings? who endorses these? petrie, maloofs?

we're all entitled to our opinions and I think you can get a Maloof yes man a lot cheaper than Geoff, and maybe just maybe if Geoff goes to another situation he can win his soul back. It's like when coach Musselman told that one scrub guard (can't remember his name off hand, maybe Hart?) that he couldn't have minutes due to the "front office"... it was the same crap - I can't stand that kind of buck passing. Don't get me started on the owners, but this thread was about the GM and head coach - both of whom I think are deficient.

Geoff Petrie has a lot of people hypnotized - I am comfortable in my assessment of his performance. You can have yours, I'll have mine. I do not and probably never will not ever understand the steadfast support he gets as he waddled through these last 5 years or so but have at it. The team is unwatchable. The Kings literally cannot GIVE AWAY tickets to games (this is a literal truth - I know people who will not make the drive and pay the parking to watch this team for free).

btw I don't think it is really in context to use the kool aid metaphor for a skeptic - that metaphor is for blind believers. You could have called me a Webber or Adelman kool aid drinker back in the day, but now I don't think I can be put in the kool aid category I don't think. You can say you'll pray to have my cynical veil lifted or something like that if you want to diss me.

 

[bajaden]

Now that's an interesting idea. I thought he basically signed his life away to Kentucky already and denied any interest in coaching the NBA though. I wonder if Evans and Cousins would be for or against it? Both of them seemed to like the guy when they left college but maybe they were just glad to be rid of him.

I think Evans was asked once about playing under Calapari againd, and he sort of laughed and said he'd rather not. Don't know about Cousins, but Calapari always had his back in college and whatever their disagreements, they were kept in house. Calapari is a demanding, in your face coach. And his style seems to work well with young players. The Kings are a young team so it might work. Remember, Calapari has coached in the NBA before, so its not like he's breaking new ground. It didn't work out so well the first time, but maybe he's learned something from the experience. One things for sure, a player always knows where he stands with Calapari.

 

[bajaden]

we're all entitled to our opinions and I think you can get a Maloof yes man a lot cheaper than Geoff, and maybe just maybe if Geoff goes to another situation he can win his soul back. It's like when coach Musselman told that one scrub guard (can't remember his name off hand, maybe Hart?) that he couldn't have minutes due to the "front office"... it was the same crap - I can't stand that kind of buck passing. Don't get me started on the owners, but this thread was about the GM and head coach - both of whom I think are deficient.

Geoff Petrie has a lot of people hypnotized - I am comfortable in my assessment of his performance. You can have yours, I'll have mine. I do not and probably never will not ever understand the steadfast support he gets as he waddled through these last 5 years or so but have at it. The team is unwatchable. The Kings literally cannot GIVE AWAY tickets to games (this is a literal truth - I know people who will not make the drive and pay the parking to watch this team for free).

btw I don't think it is really in context to use the kool aid metaphor for a skeptic - that metaphor is for blind believers. You could have called me a Webber or Adelman kool aid drinker back in the day, but now I don't think I can be put in the kool aid category I don't think. You can say you'll pray to have my cynical veil lifted or something like that if you want to diss me.

Your quite capable of making your point without degrading the opposition. Only people that don't have the facts do that. And you already proved you don't have all the facts when you made the statement about Petrie betraying Adelman. If you really knew anything about their background together you never would have made that statement. As far as Petrie being a lapdog to the Maloofs, I really doubt thats true. The year before last when they offered him a long term contract he refused it in favor of a one year deal. It was obvious to me that he was unhappy with the direction of the team, and it was his way of getting the Maloofs on board for a rebuild. You don't like him, and thats fine. I'm not in love with him or any GM. You got a better one, then bring him on. But don't try and blow smoke where the sun doesn't shine.

 

[pshn80]

I think it is absolutely silly to fire either one. Not only that, it will set the team back excessively. I know most on here feel otherwise but I think it would be a big mistake. Keep 'em on, give them support to help them solve what I think are the bigger problems of Evans and Cousins. And for my part, they can start anyone they want and rotate any way they want. I sure as hell don't know enough to handle the rotation and I don't think anyone on here does either. I enjoy reading about it here and learning others opinions but I will always leave it to them.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

The team is unwatchable. The Kings literally cannot GIVE AWAY tickets to games (this is a literal truth - I know people who will not make the drive and pay the parking to watch this team for free).

Of course the Kings could give away tickets. They've got something on the order of 10,000 paying customers a night. For every person you know who wouldn't pay only parking to watch the Kings, there are a ton of people who darn well would. I myself have been to two games this year and already have tickets in hand for four more.

Or, one could look at it from another perspective: there are people who wouldn't drive and pay the parking fee to watch free MMA fights, free Britney Spears concerts, and free Disney On Ice. I know one personally - me. Does that make such events unwatchable? No, it just means I don't care for them. But I bet there are plenty of people who would take free tix to those events.

 

[Purple Reign]

I am all in favor for keeping Westphal through the end of the season. Even though none of this is his fault (IMO), it is clear that he is not the right coach for this team. These players need a young, dynamic coach with a resume and a body of work (coaching and playing) that commands respect. The one name that will be available next season is Nate McMillian. However the Maloofs are going to have to pay him. And I think this could be an attractive place for the right amount of money.

 

[John Galt]

Your quite capable of making your point without degrading the opposition. Only people that don't have the facts do that. And you already proved you don't have all the facts when you made the statement about Petrie betraying Adelman. If you really knew anything about their background together you never would have made that statement. As far as Petrie being a lapdog to the Maloofs, I really doubt thats true. The year before last when they offered him a long term contract he refused it in favor of a one year deal. It was obvious to me that he was unhappy with the direction of the team, and it was his way of getting the Maloofs on board for a rebuild. You don't like him, and thats fine. I'm not in love with him or any GM. You got a better one, then bring him on. But don't try and blow smoke where the sun doesn't shine.

"without degrading the opposition?" Pot calling the kettle black.

A guy said to me "what kool aid are you drinking" and I'm degrading the opposition? ok sorry about that sir may I have another?

You perhaps believe Petrie should not bear responsibility for moves that were urged by the Maloofs (including Adelman's firing). I fundamentally disagree with the point of view. I agree with you that the word "betrayed" does not fit - it was not really a classic back stab, but I still do not believe Geoff did the right thing by resigning himself to the Maloof's preference to remove coach Adelman... and I think by definition he made himself a lapdog right then. I was shocked that Adelman was fired and have never forgiven Geoff for not stopping it from happening. This is a matter of opinion and interpretation and emotion not an issue of facts or lack of facts.

It is not only that I don't like Geoff, I think he is an overrated executive who has been resting on laurels for many years now. This is a matter of opinion, not fact, and reasonable people can disagree. They used to say "when Geoff Petrie shows up on caller ID, other GMs don't answer so they won't get swindled". Well not anymore... not anymore by a long stretch.

Anyway I feel like I was confronted and stuck up for my point of view - I did not go on attack.

And quite frankly if we could keep Geoff and fire the Maloofs in some imaginary altenate reality, I think that might be pretty good. The Vlade and Webber signings, and the JWill draft... I think those terrific moves pre-dated the Maloof era. But since then Geoff has shown himself to be readily influenced by the owners whims so much - I'm just generally very disappointed in him on that basis and I'm not quick to let him off the hook for decisions that we can call "Maloof decisions".

 

[gunks]

"without degrading the opposition?" Pot calling the kettle black.

A guy said to me "what kool aid are you drinking" and I'm degrading the opposition? ok sorry about that sir may I have another?

You perhaps believe Petrie should not bear responsibility for moves that were urged by the Maloofs (including Adelman's firing). I fundamentally disagree with the point of view. I agree with you that the word "betrayed" does not fit - it was not really a classic back stab, but I still do not believe Geoff did the right thing by resigning himself to the Maloof's preference to remove coach Adelman... and I think by definition he made himself a lapdog right then. I was shocked that Adelman was fired and have never forgiven Geoff for not stopping it from happening. This is a matter of opinion and interpretation and emotion not an issue of facts or lack of facts.

It is not only that I don't like Geoff, I think he is an overrated executive who has been resting on laurels for many years now. This is a matter of opinion, not fact, and reasonable people can disagree. They used to say "when Geoff Petrie shows up on caller ID, other GMs don't answer so they won't get swindled". Well not anymore... not anymore by a long stretch. Anyway I feel like I was confronted and stuck up for my point of view - I did not go on attack.

And quite frankly if we could keep Geoff and fire the Maloofs in some imaginary altenate reality, I think that might be pretty good. The Vlade and Webber signings, and the JWill draft... I think those terrific moves pre-dated the Maloof era. But since then Geoff has shown himself to be readily influenced by the owners whims so much - I'm just generally very disappointed in him on that basis and I'm not quick to let him off the hook for decisions that we can call "Maloof decisions".

For real man!

I mean, the trades of the past couple years have been decent if you look at it from a money/cap standpoint...But it seems like we've been bleeding talent for a long while now. I think the last trade where we got the better end of the deal talent wise was Peja for Artest. After that its been Bibby for crap + pick, Artest for crap + pick (sorry Donte), Miller for crap + crap, Martin for crap + cap, crap for lesser crap....And I'm sure if we do end up trading Landry it will probably be for Kenny Thomas (although, IMHO, that is a minor talent upgrade).


We have great capspace though, and since no talented FA in their right mind is going to want to come to Sac, hopefully Petrie can use it in a trade and actually get us some talent.

 

[King Baller]

I think it is absolutely silly to fire either one. Not only that, it will set the team back excessively. I know most on here feel otherwise but I think it would be a big mistake. Keep 'em on, give them support to help them solve what I think are the bigger problems of Evans and Cousins. And for my part, they can start anyone they want and rotate any way they want. I sure as hell don't know enough to handle the rotation and I don't think anyone on here does either. I enjoy reading about it here and learning others opinions but I will always leave it to them.

+1, I agree its best to Keep Westphal and GP. If things are still so bleak come June thats when you think about some changes. Good GM's don't come around very often, be careful what you all wish for.

KB

 

[gunks]

Well...

I'm on the keep Petrie side of the fence. I can just see how some people might be ready to give him the boot. None of us really no how shackled he is by ownership, but as his job for the past few years was strictly to shed salary, I'd say he did his job. But its no wonder why our roster is so bad.

Westphal on the other hand... I really dislike how he handles our young players. We need some one who can develop these guys. I find it a stretch to believe that our ENTIRE roster is populated by dummies. Teacher is to blame. I dont expect a whole lot more wins with a new coach (at least not initially), but I expect less rookie mistakes from our roster (although, naturally I'd still expect such mistakes from our big rookie.).

 

[Big Cuz 15]

we're all entitled to our opinions and I think you can get a Maloof yes man a lot cheaper than Geoff, and maybe just maybe if Geoff goes to another situation he can win his soul back. It's like when coach Musselman told that one scrub guard (can't remember his name off hand, maybe Hart?) that he couldn't have minutes due to the "front office"... it was the same crap - I can't stand that kind of buck passing. Don't get me started on the owners, but this thread was about the GM and head coach - both of whom I think are deficient.

Geoff Petrie has a lot of people hypnotized - I am comfortable in my assessment of his performance. You can have yours, I'll have mine. I do not and probably never will not ever understand the steadfast support he gets as he waddled through these last 5 years or so but have at it. The team is unwatchable. The Kings literally cannot GIVE AWAY tickets to games (this is a literal truth - I know people who will not make the drive and pay the parking to watch this team for free).

btw I don't think it is really in context to use the kool aid metaphor for a skeptic - that metaphor is for blind believers. You could have called me a Webber or Adelman kool aid drinker back in the day, but now I don't think I can be put in the kool aid category I don't think. You can say you'll pray to have my cynical veil lifted or something like that if you want to diss me.

yes we are all entitled to our own opinions. you believe we should start over w/ a new GM and coach. i believe we should find a good/equal quality replacement before pulling the plug, if we ever get to that point. we all know how great the coaching has been after letting adelman go.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

I see Westphal is rolling out yet another starting 5 tonight. I guess he still thinks there's a winning lineup in there somewhere and if he tries enough of them, he'll find it. http://www.sacbee.com/2010/12/27/3282876/new-starting-five-is-based-on.html

 

[Asaf]

I see Westphal is rolling out yet another starting 5 tonight. I guess he still thinks there's a winning lineup in there somewhere and if he tries enough of them, he'll find it. http://www.sacbee.com/2010/12/27/3282876/new-starting-five-is-based-on.html

I hear that Sean May and Kenny Thomas are still looking for a team they could start for...

 

[Section 101]

I hear that Sean May and Kenny Thomas are still looking for a team they could start for...

Don't forget Desmon Mason !

 

[SacTownKid]

Frustrating to see Cousins not get the C spot back. We need to be focusing on his on court abilities and let him learn the league. He was really starting to get going. No shot at a high place ROY of the year finish with this dumphead coaching.

 

[rainmaker]

Glad to see he site is up again, and I hope everyone had a good christmas.

Now, what the hell happened to Westy during the holiday. Another starting lineup? This is getting to be pretty rediculous. Actually, it's absolutely asinine.

I see we have given up on the development of Omri and Donte. Cisco is the starting lineup? Why? What for? He's had a couple of good games of late, but has been one of the most inconsistent guys on the team, and started the chain of events which lead to the GS meltdown. He doesn't shoot that shot, we win. I can understand if he actually won the starting job, but he hasn't outplayed either Omri or Donte.

Landry now starting over JT? Really, Westy? Now players lose their starting position due to injury? F****** wonderful. Not to mention JT adds much more versatility and all around game then Landry, and is a better fit as a starter.

Dally over Cousins for how long exactly? Cousins was playing like our best or 2nd best player leading up to the GS game. His stats are much, much worse when coming off the bench. Dally was playing so poorly before the Cousins choke sign, that he had a couple games where he didn't even get double digit minutes. This sending Cousins to the bench indefinitely isn't only infair to Cousins, but it will now have a negative affect on the rest of the team. JT can't start with Dally, so now he loses his starting position as well.

All in the name of throwing our most experienced guys out there to win a few games? For what? So we draft 8th instead of top 5. Don't develop the youth and play guys who won't be here next year to squeeze out an extra win or two? Kill what little confidence and chemistry our young starting unit was showing, to play guys who might not even be here 2 months from now?

When you have the worst record in the league, throw the young guys out there so win or lose, they gain experience. This is now more about Westy saving his job trying to get another win or two, and being a stuborn @ss when it comes to his benching of Cousins. You already fined him, benched him, and failed to keep it in house so the national media is all over it. I see we're no longer developing our youth, so we can chase the 2nd worst record in the league instead of the worst.

 

[Section 101]

Glad to see he site is up again, and I hope everyone had a good christmas.

Now, what the hell happened to Westy during the holiday. Another starting lineup? This is getting to be pretty rediculous. Actually, it's absolutely asinine.

I see we have given up on the development of Omri and Donte. Cisco is the starting lineup? Why? What for? He's had a couple of good games of late, but has been one of the most inconsistent guys on the team, and started the chain of events which lead to the GS meltdown. He doesn't shoot that shot, we win. I can understand if he actually won the starting job, but he hasn't outplayed either Omri or Donte.

Landry now starting over JT? Really, Westy? Now players lose their starting position due to injury? F****** wonderful. Not to mention JT adds much more versatility and all around game then Landry, and is a better fit as a starter.

Dally over Cousins for how long exactly? Cousins was playing like our best or 2nd best player leading up to the GS game. His stats are much, much worse when coming off the bench. Dally was playing so poorly before the Cousins choke sign, that he had a couple games where he didn't even get double digit minutes. This sending Cousins to the bench indefinitely isn't only infair to Cousins, but it will now have a negative affect on the rest of the team. JT can't start with Dally, so now he loses his starting position as well.

All in the name of throwing our most experienced guys out there to win a few games? For what? So we draft 8th instead of top 5. Don't develop the youth and play guys who won't be here next year to squeeze out an extra win or two? Kill what little confidence and chemistry our young starting unit was showing, to play guys who might not even be here 2 months from now?

When you have the worst record in the league, throw the young guys out there so win or lose, they gain experience. This is now more about Westy saving his job trying to get another win or two, and being a stuborn @ss when it comes to his benching of Cousins. You already fined him, benched him, and failed to keep it in house so the national media is all over it. I see we're no longer developing our youth, so we can chase the 2nd worst record in the league instead of the worst.

Landry on Griffin. What's the over/under on Griffins pts/rebounds? 60/30?

 

[Gary]

Ugh.. Westphal is so fail..

 

[bajaden]

Landry on Griffin. What's the over/under on Griffins pts/rebounds? 60/30?

I think your in the ballpark.. He was terrific on him last time. God this is just wonderful!!

 

[Kingster]

Last year Tyreke was the difference maker on this team. He probably got this team 8-10 wins that they wouldn't have without him.

This year we haven't had Tyreke. We've had a scrub playing instead. You can attribute that to a lack of health or emotional well being, but bottom line, we've basically seen a scrub play in place of last year's Tyreke.
So, gone are the 8-10 wins. Poof! (Let's barely touch on the subject of our expectations for Tyreke's progress for this year). Ok, you add Dalembert, a one dimensional defensive player; subtract Hawes, a one dimensional offensive player. How much of net positive is that? Not much, if anything.

Then you add Cousins. The best thing that I can say for his performance (not his future potential) is that he has kept the Kings in some games, while killing them in the fourth quarter.

If someone told you before the season began that the Kings traded Tyreke for a scrub, and that Cousins was going to be as emotionally immature on the court (leaving aside the other stuff) as he has, how many wins do you think this Kings team would have? To me, you could put an amalgam of Phil Jackson, Jerry Sloan, and Pat Riley in at coach, and you'd still have a bottom five team in the NBA. The only reason for getting rid of Westphal is that you think this team has much better players than it currently has. It doesn't, at least presently.

Now if you think there's a coach out there that can wave his magic wand and conjure up the old Tyreke, while adding a dash of outside shooting that presumably he should have had from his off-season practice time, then you see the world differently than I. That's a world in which the coach through his omniscience can understand the inner Tyreke, and then provide a physical and emotional balm for him that will heal all wounds. The same holds for Cousins. If you think there's a coach out there that can accelerate 10 years of maturity in an individual in a matter of weeks, then you and I don't have the same perspective on the tedious and oftentimes prolongued path to gain emotional maturity for an individual who has been stunted in their growth for years.

 

[Bricklayer]

I see Westphal is rolling out yet another starting 5 tonight. I guess he still thinks there's a winning lineup in there somewhere and if he tries enough of them, he'll find it. http://www.sacbee.com/2010/12/27/3282876/new-starting-five-is-based-on.html

I see that Coach was as blown away as we have all been by the incredible clutch play and complete lack of rebounding of the Landry/Cisco forward pairing helping us storm down the stretch in these recent games.

Idiot.

 

[Tetsujin]

I see that Coach was as blown away as we have all been by the incredible clutch play and complete lack of rebounding of the Landry/Cisco forward pairing helping us storm down the stretch in these recent games.

Idiot.

To be fair, Cisco didn't suck tonight. Landry, on the other hand, seems to have lucked himself into a job in which his boss will not fire or demote him, no matter what he does or doesn't do.