Your thoughts: Petrie/Westphal

[rainmaker]

So, with all the rumors flying around about both Petrie and Westphal potentially getting the boot, how does everyone feel. Of course changes need to be made, IMO either the head coach, or player movement leading to the deadline. This franchise needs a jolt.

But, IMO, firing both Petrie and Westphal would be a huge mistake. In hindsight offering Westphal his extension was a mistake given how the season has gone, but Petire deserves a shot at using the cap room and financial flexibility he created. He deserves another offseason. Westphal, I'm not so sure, but I'd be more willing to have him stick around a little longer if we make a trade.

These are just rumors, and all roads lead to Voison. However if there is truth to it, and the Maloofs are considering blowing up the front office, how does everyone feel?

 

[Asaf]

PW has lost every single player on this team. He needs to go. Trades won't matter because the players just don't trust him anymore and have no respect for him. You can't achieve anything this way. It's kinda like a relationship or a marriage - once the level of baggage has passed some threshold there's no turning back. Either side might do fine with another partner but it's impossible to reconcile that specific relationship. And Westphal has no one to blame but himself. He lost the respect of the players when he exhibited horrific double standards in the treatment of players and sacrificed the team's success in favor of one players' success and a meaningless award. And make no mistake, he lost Tyreke in the process too. There's no doubt players (and people in general) enjoy receiving preferential treatment, but they will inevitably lose respect for the person who was giving them that treatment. I was not shocked at all to read the reports that Tyreke is one of the main voices pushing for a coaching change.

Regarding Petrie, I think it would be a mistake to let him go, and if indeed that's the Maloof's plans, that probably means it's more of a personal matter than a performance related reason. Maybe they are pissed off at him for endorsing Westphal so strongly and putting them in this position. But as far as putting the team in a good position for the future, I think he has done a good job and doesn't deserve to be canned.

 

[rainmaker]

PW has lost every single player on this team. He needs to go. Trades won't matter because the players just don't trust him anymore and have no respect for him. You can't achieve anything this way. It's kinda like a relationship or a marriage - once the level of baggage has passed some threshold there's no turning back. Either side might do fine with another partner but it's impossible to reconcile that specific relationship. And Westphal has no one to blame but himself. He lost the respect of the players when he exhibited horrific double standards in the treatment of players and sacrificed the team's success in favor of one players' success and a meaningless award. And make no mistake, he lost Tyreke in the process too. There's no doubt players (and people in general) enjoy receiving preferential treatment, but they will inevitably lose respect for the person who was giving them that treatment. I was not shocked at all to read the reports that Tyreke is one of the main voices pushing for a coaching change.

Regarding Petrie, I think it would be a mistake to let him go, and if indeed that's the Maloof's plans, that probably means it's more of a personal matter than a performance related reason. Maybe they are pissed off at him for endorsing Westphal so strongly and putting them in this position. But as far as putting the team in a good position for the future, I think he has done a good job and doesn't deserve to be canned.

I tend to agree for the most part. I think a trade could help, depending on who we get in return, but it would need to happen asap, not in february. Keeping things as is for another 2 months won't work.

The main reason I think Westphal needs to go is that when you look down our roster, from top to bottom, not one player is playing at or near the level they played last season, except for Beno. That's unacceptable. This isn't a team full of tapped out talent. Rather it's a team where the majority of the players should be improving, and showing at least some growth.

And I agree Petrie shouldn't go. Let him use the flexibility he created.

 

[Asaf]

I tend to agree for the most part. I think a trade could help, depending on who we get in return, but it would need to happen asap, not in february. Keeping things as is for another 2 months won't work.

The main reason I think Westphal needs to go is that when you look down our roster, from top to bottom, not one player is playing at or near the level they played last season, except for Beno. That's unacceptable. This isn't a team full of tapped out talent. Rather it's a team where the majority of the players should be improving, and showing at least some growth.

And I agree Petrie shouldn't go. Let him use the flexibility he created.

Here's why I don't think a trade would help. Let's look at two scenarios:

1. We get a good pg/shooter/whatever who does not have leadership skills - he will most likely drop off in his performance just like Landry and everyone else did in this chaotic non-system and frustration-flooded locker room.

2. We get a great player, who is also a strong leader. No way in hell we're getting one like that, but let's assume for the sake of argument we are getting Keving Garnett. Someone the players will respect, and has the power to pick up the players and get them to shape up (or at least instill enough fear in them to motivate them to try harder). The thing is, that type of player would NEVER in a million years put up with Westphal's BS of yanking players in and out of the rotations, double-standards in treatment of players, and inability to make simple decisions. He would most likely lead the charge against Westpahl, which will take us back to square-one again. And that's even ignoring the fact that any player that's sent here at this point will be extremely upset about coming here and would not be in the mindset of wanting to help the situation.

 

[PurpleHaze]

The main reason I think Westphal needs to go is that when you look down our roster, from top to bottom, not one player is playing at or near the level they played last season, except for Beno.

Then why is Beno the only one? And I agree - he's a pro who acts like one. Could it be that he's mature, played under one of the most demanding coaches on the planet in Pop, is a leader by example plus vocally, pays laser like attention to coaches details - all that sorely lacking most everywhere else on the team. Me thinks so.

 

[Asaf]

Then why is Beno the only one? And I agree - he's a pro who acts like one. Could it be that he's mature, played under one of the most demanding coaches on the planet in Pop, is a leader by example plus vocally, pays laser like attention to coaches details - all that sorely lacking most everywhere else on the team. Me thinks so.

Or it could be that Westphal is more suited to coach a veteran team than a young team, hence his appearance in the NBA finals with Phoenix.

 

[UK_King]

Something has got to give.

I mean the final play last night was a bit strange an inbound play designed to get the ball back to Tyreke to shoot a 3? He was stone cold, he gets trapped and he hands it off to Casspi who has someone draped all over him and he obviously misses.

why not try and design a play that gets the ball to Casspi or use Cisco or Beno who'd actually hit a couple of 3's.

The thinking of Westphal last night added onto his treatment of Cousins really has me wondering about the future.

i can only give him the benefit of the doubt so long that he puts a play down on the board and the players go out and all run the opposite direction... i mean they're not that thick are they?

and all this talk of the D league (speculation i know) is just totally undermining the purpose of that league and really smacks of a vendetta.

Westphal i wouldn't be too worried if he went tomorrow, i don't necessarily think Petrie should go with him.

 

[kingsboi]

I said it once, I will say it again. Let Westphal remain with the team until the season ends and can him then. We can't keep doing this, no top flight coach would want to coach this team when they get fired within a 2 year window. Stop being so cheap and start spending for a coach that is known by everybody and leads by example!!!

As for Petrie, the only thing I see that he does really well is draft, not in the second round though. He never finds second round gems but I won't put that against him. His trades aren't very good, while he did get us cap flexibility, rarely do you see him get you a player that would be a good building block for this team and not just short term. So, with that being said, I say give him until mid next season (if there is a season) around Jan-Feb. and see how he does with all this cap money and another top 5 draft pick. If we have a terrible record by next year around this time, it is time to set sail on a new GM.

 

[John Galt]

I have felt for years that Geoff Petrie was overrated big time. He was brilliant to sign Vlade and stick to his guns on CWebb. Since then he has been average minus, especially the way he meandered through the rebuild with all the MLE garbage he signed along the way.

I have felt he was just flying blind for several years now and don't feel any affection or loyalty to him any more. He's got lots of people drinking lots of kool-aid, but when he betrayed coach Adelman he lost me for good.

Westphal, benching Cousins over the choke sign was ridiculous. The ONE AND ONLY THING GOING RIGHT was that Cousins was starting to play pretty well and you bench him over that??? There's the door loser. Showing up players like you're Phil Jackson... you're a wannabe Paul. Just go.

At this point any change would almost by definition be a change in the right direction because this team is lost. I want a new GM and a new coach.

*By the way some people will want to give Petrie credit for recent drafts. My answer to that - I would have made the exact same two first round picks - that does not make me GM material.

 

[cuad]

Petrie's only been good at drafting. Just sayin'

Signing players? Well... Mikki Moore.

 

[FaStRmAn]

I said it once, I will say it again. Let Westphal remain with the team until the season ends and can him then. We can't keep doing this, no top flight coach would want to coach this team when they get fired within a 2 year window. Stop being so cheap and start spending for a coach that is known by everybody and leads by example!!!

As for Petrie, the only thing I see that he does really well is draft, not in the second round though. He never finds second round gems but I won't put that against him. His trades aren't very good, while he did get us cap flexibility, rarely do you see him get you a player that would be a good building block for this team and not just short term. So, with that being said, I say give him until mid next season (if there is a season) around Jan-Feb. and see how he does with all this cap money and another top 5 draft pick. If we have a terrible record by next year around this time, it is time to set sail on a new GM.

I believe this is exactly what the Maloofs planned to do all along. They needed a baby sitter to watch the team while they made it through their salary cap gambit. If successful, they will have a ton of money for next season, and hopefully some young players who get better as the season goes along. Evans injury and Cousins attitude are both causing the plan to go somewhat askew, but what does it really matter in the end? This team as comprised would never have even come close to a playoff spot. LOOK at the team! No all stars, no emerging stars. Only some young players who are trying to make a name for themselves and some vets some of whom have seen the writing on the wall and others who are just playing out their string. This team will look alot different next year. No matter how the cba goes, this team will get new starters in key positions next season. Hopefully Cousins doesn't go any further nuclear than he already has. His immature behavior is expected I guess for a 20 year old who hasn't figured out the NBA process. He will eventually come around or he wont. Either way it was a risk the Kings had to take as a small market team looking for a miracle lottery pick to save the team. Lets just hope that everything calms down as the holiday passes and the team goes back to working hard and trying to get better. Because that is what they are paid to do. Play good basketball. In the end, if these players cant get it done, the Kings will make wholesale changes anyway. I just hope that waiting this extra year as the Maloofs have pays off because the CBA is beneficial in some way to small market teams.

 

[UK_King]

Think of the absolute swagger that cousins was playing with against the Rockets, and then compare that to last night.

looked flat as a pancake to me.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Don't do it unless you're going to pay for someone better to replace them. In other words, no giving the jobs to any of your buddies, Maloofs!

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

I but when he betrayed coach Adelman

I'm pretty sure The Maloofs were solely responsible for firing Adelman.

 

[John Galt]

imo Petrie's job was to talk Maloofs out of firing Adelman in fact he should have stood in front of those tanks imo and said "if he goes, I go". I'd like to see Petrie replaced with a GM who has a spine, not a yes man.

 

[dmj]

In all honesty, what has Petrie done to deserve the immunity that most on this board seem to give him? What about him makes people believe he is still a good GM, despite five consecutive losing seasons?

You can argue that he does well in the draft, and I would generally agree. But teams are built on much more than the draft.

And in those areas, Petrie has been awful: he has given out bad contracts (Mikki Moore, Francisco Garcia, SAR), made bad trades (Landry for Martin, the Webber trade), and taken far too long to realize that this team needed to be rebuilt.

Over the long term, the only worthwhile metric of a GM's performance is wins and losses. Since 2006 we have finished 23rd, 18, 30th, and 28th, in the last four seasons, and are currently the worst team in the NBA this season. Five years in the cellar of the NBA is the product of bad management, pure and simple. Petrie needs to go.

 

[steelevt]

Like I stated in the other thread id prefer to keep petrie but if he were fired, id be ok if he were replaced by someone like pritchard. As much as I defend westphal, if he has lost control of the players (heard rumors of them just ignoring him when he calls out plays) we need to find a coach that can regain control and teach these young guys. Adding a real vet to act like an on the court coach would help too.

 

[Sac.1989]

You dont let GP go before pushing him at least to make something happen before this trade deadline

 

[Lockehead]

FWIW, our struggles has made the front page of the NBA with an agonized Westphal in the little picture

 

[Sac.1989]

Quote from bee;

"Paul is going to be our coach through the end of the season and Geoff will remain with us, no doubt about it," said Kings co-owner Gavin Maloof.

http://blogs.sacbee.com/sports/kings/archives/2010/12/kings-say-they.html#ixzz195JpC4ya

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Firing Petrie would be a terrible idea.

A bad coach can set a team back a year. A bad GM can set a team back a decade.

We should have started rebuilding sooner. We can argue all day if the reason we did not was Petrie, the Maloofs or some other force.

However, now we are rebuilding and Petrie has gotten us a lot of very good young talent and cap space. As bad as this season has been, we are very well positioned for the future as long as we don’t panic and mess it up. If we bring in the Whiz and he makes a couple of bad signings, wastes our upcoming top 5 pick and trades Cous and his attitude for .50 on the dollar, we are in serious trouble.

Petre is taking us in the right direction and I believe he deserves at least 1 more season (3 years into the true rebuild) to show promise and results from his vision.

 

[theclash4u5]

I think Petrie deserves to be kept until the end of the season, at least. Personally, I would allow him to do his thing after the CBA is established, and see how that season starts to play out. If we spend our $$$, get a high pick and it starts to crumble AGAIN with a new coach...then I would fire him. But for now, I think this team will immediately improve when Westfail is fired.

1. Fire Westfail after New Years
2. Give the new coach a month to determine his starting lineup and rotation
3. Make trades based on what he thinks fits and who should go

Do NOT trade for players fit for Westfail, because it's only a matter of time before he's fired.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

2. Give the new coach a month to determine his starting lineup and rotation

A month? Heck, Id have the lineup worked out in about 10 minutes. Starters, Cousins/Evans/Thompson/Casspi/Beno. Backups, Dalembert/Garcia/Landry/Greene/Jeter. That was easy.

 

[gunks]

I voted fire Westphal/ keep GP.


Geoff's job was to cut salary. We now have the lowest payroll in the league, and a lot of stockpiled young talent.

Westphal's job was to coach....Ehh.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Petrie needs to stay. He is the only respectable thing this organization has right now. The only person I can say is a top 15 anything in our organization. Players and coaches included. The only person that isnt the butt of every NBA joke.

I still think he is a good GM. He has been very good the past two seasons. If we were going to fire him, it should have been 3 or so years ago. He is doing his job well right now. and I am deathly afraid of who may take over for him.

 

[bajaden]

imo Petrie's job was to talk Maloofs out of firing Adelman in fact he should have stood in front of those tanks imo and said "if he goes, I go". I'd like to see Petrie replaced with a GM who has a spine, not a yes man.

I don't know if your aware of this or not, but Petrie resigned in Portland because they fired Adelman. Adelman was a close friend, and Petrie lobbied hard to have him appointed head coach of the Kings. I think it would have been asking too much, to ask Petire to bite the bullet again for Adelman. But I'm sure he did everything he could to talk them out of it short of quiting himself.

 

[Nighthawk1]

If Petrie is to be fired, it should be for Pritchard and that's about all I could see as a solid replacement. I like his aggressive nature in dealing - makes things exciting at least.

Westphal is a whole other can of worms. I think when he was hired he was expandable, lowest salary, pretty much a you're cheap and that's why we're hiring you and hope you work out. Well it hasn't so far. One could argue our players are stupid and young - but it's the coaches job to coach them up and if anything we're seeing a regression. With basically the same nucleus in place as last year I would venture to say things have gone backwards much like all teams Westphal has had. Parting ways with him is no big deal, but it's the replacement that is the big deal and I'm not sure who we could go after at this point most of us would feel happy with...

 

[gunks]

At this point its kinda...Who's worse?


I'd rather have Theus than Westphal. Muss/Natt....Its debatable.


The regression is one thing, but even worse is that our locker room is turning to ****. The coach needs to get these guys together. But we see how Westphal deals with his players. He either lets them do whatever the **** they want (Reke), or dicks around with them (Cuz/JT/Om/Greene). A coach like that isnt going to make a team out of a bunch of young lunkheads. We have no oncourt leader, the coach should be the leader from the sidelines.

Westphal isnt the guy to develop the youth. Not by a longshot.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Parting ways with him (Westphal) is no big deal, but it's the replacement that is the big deal and I'm not sure who we could go after at this point most of us would feel happy with...

And that's exactly why it's unlikely to happen and if it did it might just as likely be a Kenny Natt clone Jim Eyen (sorry Jim). Prichard for Petrie is highly, highly unlikely since he would demand a salary at least 3 times or more what Petrie currently makes. Whiz would be the worst Kings PR disaster ever if he got the call and I think Maloof's realize that. Everything is pointing to both Paul and Geoff staying (as ownership states) through end of this season (period!). Some Kings fans, maybe a lot of Kings fans may squawk and howl to the bitter end - but Maloof's have spoken pretty clear to everyone - except maybe Voisin.

 

[Asaf]

And that's exactly why it's unlikely to happen and if it did it might just as likely be a Kenny Natt clone Jim Eyen (sorry Jim). Prichard for Petrie is highly, highly unlikely since he would demand a salary at least 3 times or more what Petrie currently makes. Whiz would be the worst Kings PR disaster ever if he got the call and I think Maloof's realize that. Everything is pointing to both Paul and Geoff staying (as ownership states) through end of this season (period!). Some Kings fans, maybe a lot of Kings fans may squawk and howl to the bitter end - but Maloof's have spoken pretty clear to everyone - except maybe Voisin.

Well, if that happens, that pretty much guarantees that no self-respecting free agent will sign with us in the offseason, and anyone we acquire in a trade will be majorly pissed off for being sent here and will most likely not contribute to the locker room atmosphere. As long as Westphal is around, the chaos will continue and just grow, and we will remain the joke of the NBA. And that's before even talking about the mental damage done to our players this season.