Will we have a One-Two Punch? Or will just be DFC?

[Bosnian Diehard]

I've been thinking about this quite a lot actually... It seems like unless we make blockbuster moves before February, we will only have Cousins to lead the team. He obviously can become a potential superstar, if/when he does, will we have a second main man? I think it is a necessity to have two superstars (or one superstar and one star, i.e. LBJ + DWade or LBJ + Chris Bosh) you get what I'm saying. I can't think of a team with one lone superstar to win a title in recent years besides Dirk with the Mavs. The recent champions -

2007 - San Antonio (Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobli)
2008 - Boston (Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen)
2009 - Los Angeles (Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol)
2010 - Los Angeles (Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol)
2011 - Dalla (Dirk Nowitzki)
2012 - Miami Heat (LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh)
2013 - Miami Heat (LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh)

So, these teams all have one-two suoerstars, and a third star (sometimes debatable, like Kobe,Pau, but even if you don't consider Pau a star-type player in 09 and 10, Kobe is an exception). Also, the question of do you really want your lone superstar to be center? None of these teams had a center as their superstar without a second star.

What do you guys think?

 

[The_Jamal]

You need 3 (obviously oversimplied) things to win a title. Defense, elite 3pt shooting, and an elite #1 option. Whatever or however you make a team around those 3 factors is completely and totally up in the air.

 

[Bricklayer]

Look, we traded the only guy with a chance to be a legitimate #2. But while its just scoring, Marcus Thornton legitimately could be a 20ppg scorer this year if we're talking a Grevis/Thornton/Mbah a Moute/Thomspon?/ Cousins lineup. Now just being a 20ppg one dimensional scorer type doesn't make you a legitimate #2 in the NBA, but we could have a second major offensive weapon.

Lot of ways that can go wrong though. If McLemore develops faster and starts getting minutes, well neither of those guys has any real ability to play anything but SG, so it could turn into a platoon. I am a little interested to see what Grevis is going to try to do here. People see the big assist number and say pure PG, but that's not quite true. He has always been a guy, both in college and now, who has a bit of a hero complex on offense and takes more shots than his shooting percentages say are wise. Hopefully/presumably his eagerness to come here so he can be free to play his game means he will be free to direct the team, not free to throw up his own junk. Or Malone's Landry fetish could have him start him, in which case offensive touches will flow heavily to Cousins/Landry and Thornton won't be able to have as much of an impact. You just can't tell until you see how this is coached.

But if you wanted to, you drew clear lines between starters/bench etc., you could probably go:

Cousins 21ppg
Thompson (platoon) 10ppg
Mbah a Moute (platoon) 8ppg
Thornton 20ppg
Vasquez 14ppg

or something like that. Poingt being there is a second scorer here, just not a second star level player.

 

[KingMilz]

If Thornton starts and plays massive minutes (has a green light) than he can be the #2 option (maybe even lead us in scoring since he won't be getting doubled and focused on as hard) but that won't help us in the long run with M16 nor will it help the team in short or long term. But yeah in terms of talent or potential talent we really at this point only have Cousins (not sold on M16 just yet). The team make up much like last season makes little to no sense but as long as we are entertaining it does matter at this point anyway the talent is simply not there to be worthy of a playoff spot in the West.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

unless Ben McLemore surprises the hell out of us, we have to trade for a #2 punch. for now its probably going to be Thornton though.

 

[KingsCitizen]

I have high hopes for McLemore to really spark this team up with more excitement.
But I believe we need a real steady play from Vasquez to really bring this team to the next level.
If Vasquez can distribute the ball to each player at their favorite spots, DMC won't have to force things often down low, McLemore and Thornton would get their points, even A'Moute won't be an offensive liability, he'll even Outlaw may just bring back that big time dunker in him.

That's still a big IF though.

So my answer is more on having a 1-2 punch, DMC would be one, the other one could come from either McLemore or maybe even Thornton or McCallum(real dark horse here). But that's depending on Vasquez's game.

 

[mac]

Noteworthy: Shaq seemed to think/imply/indicate that IT would be the "two" punch after DMC...

 

[Hadlowe]

Noteworthy: Shaq seemed to think/imply/indicate that IT would be the "two" punch after DMC...

Shaq says lots of stuff.

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

Btw the third option is terribly typo'd. It should read:

"Yes, we will eventually make a trade for the second star down the line."

 

[mac]

Shaq says lots of stuff.

Yes, but what he says doesn't come out of nowhere, at least when it has to do with the Kings. He's also said that we're building around Cousins. Did that come out of nowhere? Don't forget that he has actually been talking to Vivek.

 

[Spike]

Here's how I see it:
When teams focus on shutting down DFC (playoffs), who is the player that's going to take over? Who's going to create his own shot when it gets dirty? I can't see anyone else on this roster who could get to the line and make something happen when things tighten up. Hopefully we will trade for that person during the season, but those players aren't easy to come by - you kind of need to draft them.

 

[Kingster]

Define "star". To my mind, we don't have any stars (and I'll just define it for myself as an All-Star). We may have an upcoming star in Cousins. Maybe. Maybe not. This season will tell that tale once and for all. Let's just see if this team can "play the right way" and approach .500 ball before we entertain the idea of stars and NBA championships.

 

[Bricklayer]

Yes, but what he says doesn't come out of nowhere, at least when it has to do with the Kings. He's also said that we're building around Cousins. Did that come out of nowhere? Don't forget that he has actually been talking to Vivek.

That would be a pretty trick with Grevis in town. Which do you think it would be? IT starting over Grevis, or IT and Grevis playing together for 20+ min a night?

Shaq talks out of the wrong end at least half the time, and anybody that has ever heard him mumble on TNT, or pick his wonderful Rookie/Soph teams knows that he comes from the Michael Jordan school of post career acumen, or maybe the Barkley school of too lazy to really pay attention.

 

[Kingster]

Noteworthy: Shaq seemed to think/imply/indicate that IT would be the "two" punch after DMC...

It makes sense that IT is in the conversation (not as a star, but as a key player). He's probably the second or third best player on the team. For this team to be average everybody is going to have to play well.

 

[Spike]

It makes sense that IT is in the conversation (not as a star, but as a key player). He's probably the second or third best player on the team.

Which says a lot about the quality of the team...

 

[Kingster]

That would be a pretty trick with Grevis in town. Which do you think it would be? IT starting over Grevis, or IT and Grevis playing together for 20+ min a night?

Shaq talks out of the wrong end at least half the time, and anybody that has ever heard him mumble on TNT, or pick his wonderful Rookie/Soph teams knows that he comes from the Michael Jordan school of post career acumen, or maybe the Barkley school of too lazy to really pay attention.

FWIW, my guess is that we see a lot of IT and Grevis together in the backcourt. You want to put your better players on the floor, for one. And for two, Grevis is bigger, but slower, so maybe he can guard some 2s, whereas IT is smaller and much quicker, so he is probably better on D against the smaller quicker point guards. Last but not least, I just don't see Thornton as a starter. He's made to come of the bench to supply points.

As we've touched on before, it's all a guessing game when it comes to what Malone wants to do on offense. One question at the start: how long will Malone "experiment" with lineups before he establishes a consistent lineup? We saw what Smart did last year when it came to lineups. How will Malone contrast with Smart in that regard?

 

[Kingster]

Which says a lot about the quality of the team...

Well, we don't have any All-Stars. We certainly don't have any superstars. There is going to have to be a lot of improvement individually and collectively to be respectable. Malone has his work cut out for him. I just want to see a great reduction of the brain-dead plays we say last year and a team that busts their a** to play the right way on defense and offense. If they max out on their ability, they will get the home crowd behind them and then coming into Sleep Train won't be a walk in the park for a lot of teams.

 

[mac]

That would be a pretty trick with Grevis in town. Which do you think it would be? IT starting over Grevis, or IT and Grevis playing together for 20+ min a night?

Shaq talks out of the wrong end at least half the time, and anybody that has ever heard him mumble on TNT, or pick his wonderful Rookie/Soph teams knows that he comes from the Michael Jordan school of post career acumen, or maybe the Barkley school of too lazy to really pay attention.

It's one thing for him to be making poor decisions/ analysis. It's another for him to simply be echoing what Vivek has told him.

 

[The_Jamal]

It's one thing for him to be making poor decisions/ analysis. It's another for him to simply be echoing what Vivek has told him.

Well, we really don't know what Vivek thinks. Or that guy who makes the roster decisions, Malone.

Unfortuantely, we're in a tricky spot with minutes. While we lack top-end talent, but one thing we do have going for us is tremendous depth. (Just a guess to our bench) but I don't think many teams could top IT-McLemore-Salmons-Patterson-Landry talent level off the bench.

 

[Spike]

Wow.

 

[Gary]

We really haven't had a legitimate #2 in a while. At least a #2 where everyone else knew that he was the #2. Maybe Thornton this year though? Who knows.

 

[SacTownKid]

That number 2 guy should be Marcus Thornton. Would be nice if McLemore could be that guy right out of the gate and in time he may be that number 2, but watch out, if they use Marcus the right way he's going to blow up next year. He's really become quite a complete basketball player, far from one dimensional and he has shown the ability to play off of Demarcus. Don't know about the overall talent of the team but I see so many ways this team can work on paper.

 

[Hadlowe]

Yes, but what he says doesn't come out of nowhere, at least when it has to do with the Kings. He's also said that we're building around Cousins. Did that come out of nowhere? Don't forget that he has actually been talking to Vivek.

My favorite Shaq moment of all time came on a Thursday afternoon when I was watching Hollywood Squares (was home sick, or something). The whole point of that show for the celebrities was to occasionally give correct answers but intersperse the correct answers with clever lies and to make fun of the celebrities around you to burnish your waning career. Shaq, on the other hand, managed to get no right answers the entire time he was on the show, and his wrong answers were often non-sequiturs to the questions asked. To call it a train wreck would have been unjust to train wrecks.

There was one question in particular that inspired actual loathing on my part, whereas I had considered Shaq a tolerable imbecile before. The host asked what would happen to a sumo wrestler if his loin cloth fell off in a match. Shaq answered that if it was him in the ring, all of the ladies would fall in love immediately. That's it. That's not the joke answer before the real answer. Just that.

So, Shaq says a lot of stuff. His lack of knowledge has never stopped him from saying a lot of stuff in the past, and there is no reason to think that it will stop him from saying a lot of stuff in the future. If he happens to be right on this issue, fine. Stopped clock and all that.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

We really haven't had a legitimate #2 in a while. At least a #2 where everyone else knew that he was the #2. Maybe Thornton this year though? Who knows.

To paraphrase a scene from A Few Good Men, the defense will stipulate that we haven't really had a "legitimate" #2 in a while, if the prosecution will stipulate that we got rid of a guy who was closer to being a legitimate #2, and is more likely to, at some point in his career, become a legitimate #2, than anybody we've got right now?

 

[rainmaker]

We really haven't had a legitimate #2 in a while. At least a #2 where everyone else knew that he was the #2. Maybe Thornton this year though? Who knows.

As Slim touched on, defenses against us the last couple years says differently. There were clearly two main options they were loading up on, although Smart did make it easier on the opponents by sticking one of them in the corner while massacring sub patterns.

If you couldn't tell that over the last 2+ years defenses guarded one of our perimeter players (loaded up and shaded him) differently than our other perimeter players, I don't know what to say. Defenses and opponent game plans proved we did have a 2nd option everyone else knew about, it's just that a section of Kings fans doesn't want to acknowledge it for whatever the reason.

And this year Cuz could be easier to guard, depending on our offense and his development. Why? Without a perimeter player demanding the attention of multiple defenders it's easier to crowd and send a double to Cuz while sticking to an MT or MLM or PP. Double down off the worse shooters and/or guys who aren't much a threat to penetrate off a live dribble. There's also the proven strategy of forcing teams to beat you from the outside. If I'm an opponent, I'd prefer loading up on Cuz and cutting down passing lanes inside and let the Kings try to beat us from the outside by launching jumpers. Live by the three, die by the three.

We'll likely be defended the way Dallas is defended. Load up on Dirk, let others try to beat you from the outside. If someone gets real hot you pay a little more attention, but that's not a legit #2 threat.

 

[mac]

My favorite Shaq moment of all time came on a Thursday afternoon when I was watching Hollywood Squares (was home sick, or something). The whole point of that show for the celebrities was to occasionally give correct answers but intersperse the correct answers with clever lies and to make fun of the celebrities around you to burnish your waning career. Shaq, on the other hand, managed to get no right answers the entire time he was on the show, and his wrong answers were often non-sequiturs to the questions asked. To call it a train wreck would have been unjust to train wrecks.

There was one question in particular that inspired actual loathing on my part, whereas I had considered Shaq a tolerable imbecile before. The host asked what would happen to a sumo wrestler if his loin cloth fell off in a match. Shaq answered that if it was him in the ring, all of the ladies would fall in love immediately. That's it. That's not the joke answer before the real answer. Just that.

So, Shaq says a lot of stuff. His lack of knowledge has never stopped him from saying a lot of stuff in the past, and there is no reason to think that it will stop him from saying a lot of stuff in the future. If he happens to be right on this issue, fine. Stopped clock and all that.

Yes I understand, but again, my issue is that he could simply be repeating what he has discussed with Vivek and Mark Mastrov. Everything he has said related to the Kings coming out of the presser hasn't been his own nonsense. The arena - that wasn't nonsense. Building around Cousins - wasn't nonsense. He was basically echoing/reporting Vivek's plans for the Kings. This is different from if he were to on TV a month ago and be asked how the Kings should play and just made up his own "analysis" on the spot.

 

[CruzDude]

Well, IMHO we can best approach this issue initially sometime after all-star break. And thats pushing it. I agree that a team really needs 3 "stars" who carry the load most nights and can be counted on most of the time. Cuz is one for sure. As to any others, we won't know who will even be on the team at the all-star break much less who has stepped up (the rooks? MT? PPat? etc) and who may be gone for a key cog in the new chain. Its fun to guess now but lets keep this in mind and address it again in February-March.

 

[blackice]

I feel our second punch will come at draft time next year, depending on our position in this upcoming draft, I'm sure a team will be very enticed to ponder a offer from the Kings that is a top 10 pick along with one or two of our young players.

 

[randymoss1881]

I feel our second punch will come at draft time next year, depending on our position in this upcoming draft, I'm sure a team will be very enticed to ponder a offer from the Kings that is a top 10 pick along with one or two of our young players.

I agree everyone is acting like this will be our set roster when we start contending and it's not. Right now I believe Cousins will develop into a stud #1 option and mclemore has #2 potential but I'll say a stud 3rd option. We could end up getting a #2 most likely in this coming draft or one of the next free agency's. I do believe we have very good vets that will know how to play there role in PP, Landry, Luc, and Vasquez. I also believe that by having our #1 being a big man is a very good advantage over every other #1 not named lebron or durant because of of the nba lacking in size nowadays just look at how someone with less offensive talents like hibbert dominated the playoffs Nd Dwight too who isn't as talented offensively. Also having a 2nd or 3rd option like mclemore who doesn't need the all is crucial to as him and cousins and the next key cog wot step on eat bother toes

To sum it up I believe that with the new ownership&shaq bein in cousins ear he will become a top 5-10 player averaging 20-10. I also believe that mike malone is this thiebadou 2.0 he is gonna prove himself to be a top 10 coach and have us in the top 12 in defense every year

 

[ElRey]

right now we only have a #1 (Demarcus) and no #2. McLemore is the only other Kings player with star potential, but he is another 1 or 2 years before he can become a serious player.