WCS

[Jimbob]

Yeah, Stanley Johnson for Willi and another asset would be sweet. And as already mentioned if we do keep this years draft pick its PG loaded.
Still its interesting that many of the names we are throwing out there, Rozier, Payne, Justin Anderson, Johnson all came out of the same draft as Willi and we could have had any one of them.

 

[lwc]

After watching every game that WCS played in college (and the future pro big men beside him through those years), I thought that Willie would be a solid role player for a playoff team in the NBA. Truly of all of the draft picks we have had, this one shocked me the most.

To be fair, this is still early in his second season but I thought as an experienced player with several years under Coach Cal that he'll be ready to step in from day one and make an impact defensively.

I honestly believe that Karl is part of the problem. Did they preach or teach any defense in Willie's first season? Evidently Boogie and Rondo (All-NBA, Olympic Gold medalist, All-Star and World Champion players) defended WCS and so they saw flashes of something that Karl didn't.

Therefore, before I go into the bust category, I'm going to wait till the end of this season. While I waited four years on Ben I wont wait four years on Willie to pass judgment on his game. Ben came out after 1 year and was young for even a 1 year player. WCS had 4 years of Coach Cal and was considered by everyone the most NBA-ready player of the draft.

Probably nobody on this site wants Willie to do better than I do, but I also understand that another UK player is waiting in the wings to take his spot. Willie better hurry and develop or he will get passed by.

 

[dude12]

WCS has a chance to be a good player in this league but IF he doesn't put in the work, is whining about playing time when he hasn't quite earned it, doesn't play hard, thinks he's an offensive player when he's not......all those things together are not good.

 

[Joshoua]

2017 BkRef on/off stats just released
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1490865

Our DRTG is better than 9 points when WCS gets off the court. I liked the WCS pick and it's soon but let's try and rob Boston for Roizer.

 

[Bricklayer]

2017 BkRef on/off stats just released
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1490865

Our DRTG is better than 9 points when WCS gets off the court. I liked the WCS pick and it's soon but let's try and rob Boston for Roizer.

Yabuttt....I don't really know what to make of our defensive on/offs at all as a team. I mean, sure the Willie number feels about right and I wouldn't have even blinked if you had just told me that number without my seeing the rest, but its hard to highlight it as the end all when:

right now we are lsightly worse on D with Cuz on the floor. +1.7. That's following multiple years have his having huge team leading effects on the defense. Maybe you could blame it on the playing out of position, BUT...

Rudy -15.1 (!!!) makes Scrubmond Green look like nothing (speaking of Scrubmond, he's only rocking a -0.5 right now)
Afflalo -7.0 very strong
Lawson -3.0
Barnes +7.9 gotta keep that sieve off the floor
Koufos -12.6 the real key to our interior defense, being Cuz from prior seasons
Temple +5.4 see Barnes
McLemore +5.4

I mean..hard to know what to make of all that, and would require a lot of unsorting to figure out the whys of it. Certainly adds up to the starting unit playing strong D, and the backups not, but...

 

[bajaden]

I may be in the minority, but you can take the plus/minus overall, and the plus/minus on defense, and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. Too much depends on who is on the court with you. Does the player pass the eye test? That's the question. I pay close attention to Willie when he's on the court, and he does make mistakes at times. In the last game he played decent to very good defense, but did totally lose track of who he was guarding in one instance by paying too much attention to the ball. At Kentucky, Willie played a disruptor role, and to some extent, that's how he's playing for Joerger. He'll sometimes leave his man to help on the perimeter, and then rush back to cover his man. Which makes it look like he's out of position at times. But if you keep track of how many times the man he's guarding scores at the basket, you'll find he's fairly successful at what he does.

At Kentucky he was one of the best at stopping the ball. Personally, I wish they'd use Willie as a rim protector, but I'm not the coach of the team. But the idea that he doesn't know how to play defense is ridiculous. You don't go from being one of the best defenders in college to not knowing how to defend once in the NBA. There will be some adjusting of course, but it's not rocket science. I realize that on this forum, your either a super great player, or your a bum with little in between. I'm not saying that Willie is perfect by any means. His rebounding has been horrible, and at times his effort has looked below average at best. Don't know why, but it needs to be improved. Perhaps as he said, and I suggested a week or so ago, he was thinking too much instead of just reacting. That's death for a player.

 

[bajaden]

Yabuttt....I don't really know what to make of our defensive on/offs at all as a team. I mean, sure the Willie number feels about right and I wouldn't have even blinked if you had just told me that number without my seeing the rest, but its hard to highlight it as the end all when:

right now we are lsightly worse on D with Cuz on the floor. +1.7. That's following multiple years have his having huge team leading effects on the defense. Maybe you could blame it on the playing out of position, BUT...

Rudy -15.1 (!!!) makes Scrubmond Green look like nothing (speaking of Scrubmond, he's only rocking a -0.5 right now)
Afflalo -7.0 very strong
Lawson -3.0
Barnes +7.9 gotta keep that sieve off the floor
Koufos -12.6 the real key to our interior defense, being Cuz from prior seasons
Temple +5.4 see Barnes
McLemore +5.4

I mean..hard to know what to make of all that, and would require a lot of unsorting to figure out the whys of it. Certainly adds up to the starting unit playing strong D, and the backups not, but...

I think Cuz's rating has to do with him defending PF's instead of centers. Especially when you consider that there aren't that many good centers in the league right now. I'll be you a meal at McDonald's that if you were to put Cousins at center and Willie on the floor with him at PF, both their defensive ratings would go down.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Well nearly every year the same bs. You cant build a franchise like this.

I may be in the minority, but you can take the plus/minus overall, and the plus/minus on defense, and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. Too much depends on who is on the court with you. Does the player pass the eye test? That's the question. I pay close attention to Willie when he's on the court, and he does make mistakes at times. In the last game he played decent to very good defense, but did totally lose track of who he was guarding in one instance by paying too much attention to the ball. At Kentucky, Willie played a disruptor role, and to some extent, that's how he's playing for Joerger. He'll sometimes leave his man to help on the perimeter, and then rush back to cover his man. Which makes it look like he's out of position at times. But if you keep track of how many times the man he's guarding scores at the basket, you'll find he's fairly successful at what he does.

At Kentucky he was one of the best at stopping the ball. Personally, I wish they'd use Willie as a rim protector, but I'm not the coach of the team. But the idea that he doesn't know how to play defense is ridiculous. You don't go from being one of the best defenders in college to not knowing how to defend once in the NBA. There will be some adjusting of course, but it's not rocket science. I realize that on this forum, your either a super great player, or your a bum with little in between. I'm not saying that Willie is perfect by any means. His rebounding has been horrible, and at times his effort has looked below average at best. Don't know why, but it needs to be improved. Perhaps as he said, and I suggested a week or so ago, he was thinking too much instead of just reacting. That's death for a player.

I pretty much agree with everything you wrote. But what I really don't understand is why Willie is not getting back into plays once he is beaten. I noticed this time and time again.
Willies opponent beats him to a spot and Willie is just standing there ball watching or relying on his teammates to rotate, instead of aggressively flying in there with all his athleticism to alter the shot or to at least grab the possible rebound.
I simply can't understand that. He has all the athleticism in the world, but decides to stay rooted in one place and watch his man attempt a layup.
It's almost like he is content with rotating once and than decides it's not his job anymore to cover his original matchup, although there is well enough time for him to get back into play and to make it really difficult for the opposition.
Foe me this is an effort thing and I have a hard time liking guys not giving full effort.

Here are some examples.
2:07 look how easily Ingram moves Willie out of the way and Willie doesn't even attempt to get back in the play.
2:29 Randle has time to pumpfake and to simply attempt a layup. Willie is just standing there accepting he got beat.

Now DMC has similar issues, but with DMC I accept, that sometimes getting back into the play is risky, because you tend to pick up fouls. DMC carries our offense and we need to manage his fouls carefully.
But what is Willies excuse for that?

 

[KingMilz]

>>

Well nearly every year the same bs. You cant build a franchise like this.


I pretty much agree with everything you wrote. But what I really don't understand is why Willie is not getting back into plays once he is beaten. I noticed this time and time again.
Willies opponent beats him to a spot and Willie is just standing there ball watching or relying on his teammates to rotate, instead of aggressively flying in there with all his athleticism to alter the shot or to at least grab the possible rebound.
I simply can't understand that. He has all the athleticism in the world, but decides to stay rooted in one place and watch his man attempt a layup.
It's almost like he is content with rotating once and than decides it's not his job anymore to cover his original matchup, although there is well enough time for him to get back into play and to make it really difficult for the opposition.
Foe me this is an effort thing and I have a hard time liking guys not giving full effort.

Here are some examples.
2:07 look how easily Ingram moves Willie out of the way and Willie doesn't even attempt to get back in the play.
2:29 Randle has time to pumpfake and to simply attempt a layup. Willie is just standing there accepting he got beat.

Now DMC has similar issues, but with DMC I accept, that sometimes getting back into the play is risky, because you tend to pick up fouls. DMC carries our offense and we need to manage his fouls carefully.
But what is Willies excuse for that?

The difference between us and every other team that's had success in the last 10 years has and always will be basketball IQ and this year we have an extra burden of not only having a low IQ team but a very un-athletic one also. All our good players currently are great when just playing on pure instinct which is why they have always been good in spurts but when things get tight and you have to think your way through a game we have no one.

When the Spurs say a guy is not a Spur I don't think it's just attitude I think IQ plays a big part in that also hence why they quickly cut ties with guys like James Anderson.

 

[KingsFanGER]

>>

The difference between us and every other team that's had success in the last 10 years has and always will be basketball IQ and this year we have an extra burden of not only having a low IQ team but a very un-athletic one also. All our good players currently are great when just playing on pure instinct which is why they have always been good in spurts but when things get tight and you have to think your way through a game we have no one.

When the Spurs say a guy is not a Spur I don't think it's just attitude I think IQ plays a big part in that also hence why they quickly cut ties with guys like James Anderson.

My problem with basketball IQ is that it's a very vague term. Is basketball IQ something teachable? Is it a given for certain players? Is it something individual or is it more about the team and how the guys learn to function as a unit?
With Willie in those situations it doesn't look like he is lost or doesn't know what to do. He is basically just laying back and accepting defeat. His arms are lowered, he isn't attempting to jump or to accelerate again in the direction of the ball. Nothing....just watching and peparing to inbound. That's how Rondo played D too last year and Rondo is said to have a very high basketball IQ.
Agree on the athleticism being a problem.

 

[KingMilz]

My problem with basketball IQ is that it's a very vague term. Is basketball IQ something teachable? Is it a given for certain players? Is it something individual or is it more about the team and how the guys learn to function as a unit?
With Willie in those situations it doesn't look like he is lost or doesn't know what to do. He is basically just laying back and accepting defeat. His arms are lowered, he isn't attempting to jump or to accelerate again in the direction of the ball. Nothing....just watching and peparing to inbound. That's how Rondo played D too last year and Rondo is said to have a very high basketball IQ.
Agree on the athleticism being a problem.

No you have it or you don't imo, as far as players consistently quitting on this team there's got to be a deeper reason (no idea what it is) for it I'm not in the locker room but there's been way to many guys that play hard everywhere else except for here and it's really not changed despite coaching/management changes. Lack of effort/low IQ/low athletic ability is just not a good combination in any level of basketball.

 

[twslam07]

2017 BkRef on/off stats just released
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1490865

Our DRTG is better than 9 points when WCS gets off the court. I liked the WCS pick and it's soon but let's try and rob Boston for Roizer.

There is something odd about these numbers... The on-court ORTG & DRTG should (theoretically) match the ORTG & DRTG on each individual's basketball reference page. For instance, it says Cousins on-court ORTG is 111 & his DRTG is 110 in the link above, but when you click on Cousins' name, his ORTG is 114 & his DRTG is 106. Something is off on their site...

If you go to the team's page (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAC/2017.html) and sort by ORTG & DRTG, you can see what I'm talking about.

I will say that NBAWowy's on/off numbers closely align with what Joshua provided so perhaps the ORTG & DRTG on the player pages is off.

 

[King Baller]

I don't understand why Willie cannot be a 7 foot tall Dennis Rodman. I think he has all the physical tools, yet he cannot grab boards at an average level for someone his size???

 

[TaxMan]

I don't understand why Willie cannot be a 7 foot tall Dennis Rodman. I think he has all the physical tools, yet he cannot grab boards at an average level for someone his size???

In my mind, being a good rebounder is largely about size and effort. However, being a GREAT rebounder has got to have a lot of skill and/or special innate instinct. Rodman instinctively saw rebounds before the ball hit the rim, much like a transcendent passer that can just feel where his teammates are without even looking. WCS appears to have size, but nothing else when it comes to rebounding.

 

[Jimbob]

An agile big with little rebounding instinct.

I recognize the hesitance to give up on Willi early but again the Kings inability to draft and than develop is awful. Three different GMs that cant put together a decent team since Cousins arrival, unbelievable. If we believe Cuz will walk after this contract is up some moves need to be made. The above scenario by twslam07 is interesting enough.