Trade: Is anyone safe?

[Lafayette]

You look at the team and we all say "They're all young and not experienced and..." Okay, so we have a very young team but do they know how to play basketball. This team does lack vets but that deosnt mean you get a SF that thinks he should be a main focus on the team and pouts and doesnt look like he cares.

Tyreke - We know he can play, score, rebound, pass and so forth but to inconsistent and lost without a real PG to play with him

Thornton - He can score and plays defense but his height doesn't help

Salmons - (This space is filled with bad language)

Hayes - Defense, hustle and short

Cousins - The most potential on the team, has settled down his attitude but still not being utilizied properly

Jimmer - Shoot when you open and don't create your own shots
Thomas - True PG but does force a bit
Garcia - So someone told him that he can only shoot 3's?
Greene - Defense is great but does tend to NOT pass the ball
Thompson - Hustles, rebounds, defends but still a little eratic
Hickson - Can't play defense, takes to many jumpers and... oh forget it
Outlaw - He should be outlawed from the team
Whiteside - If you want to have the kid learn then bring him up and tell him to just play D and rebound
Honeycutt - Yound, athletic and can help with hustle but still to green

So who's safe, who'd you get rid of and do you blow it up or hang on to one... what to do?

 

[Sac.1989]

Cousins is safe. Hes the future and theres no way we trade him until the back end of his next contract

 

[PurpleHaze]

I agree with most of the points but one glaring error. Donte Greene is not "great" on D. He's only average or mediocre - take your pick - which on Kings means he's "good" on D. Big Cuz certainly agrees that Greene doesn't like to pass the ball.

 

[VF21]

You look at the team and we all say "They're all young and not experienced and..." Okay, so we have a very young team but do they know how to play basketball. This team does lack vets but that deosnt mean you get a SF that thinks he should be a main focus on the team and pouts and doesnt look like he cares.

Tyreke - We know he can play, score, rebound, pass and so forth but to inconsistent and lost without a real PG to play with him

Thornton - He can score and plays defense but his height doesn't help

Salmons - (This space is filled with bad language)

Hayes - Defense, hustle and short

Cousins - The most potential on the team, has settled down his attitude but still not being utilizied properly

Jimmer - Shoot when you open and don't create your own shots
Thomas - True PG but does force a bit
Garcia - So someone told him that he can only shoot 3's?
Greene - Defense is great but does tend to NOT pass the ball
Thompson - Hustles, rebounds, defends but still a little eratic
Hickson - Can't play defense, takes to many jumpers and... oh forget it
Outlaw - He should be outlawed from the team
Whiteside - If you want to have the kid learn then bring him up and tell him to just play D and rebound
Honeycutt - Yound, athletic and can help with hustle but still to green

So who's safe, who'd you get rid of and do you blow it up or hang on to one... what to do?

Aside from Evans and Cousins, most likely, I don't think anyone is "safe." Our real problem, though, isn't trading away everyone. It's finding a 2012 Divac to come in and provide a veteran presence and incredible skill at being the perfect teammate. Look at our team back in 2001-2002. Without knowing what would happen, try to assess the potential of each of those guys before the start of the season. I think you might be surprised at what it was like before it all happened.

 

[sactownfan]

Aside from Evans and Cousins, most likely, I don't think anyone is "safe." Our real problem, though, isn't trading away everyone. It's finding a 2012 Divac to come in and provide a veteran presence and incredible skill at being the perfect teammate. Look at our team back in 2001-2002. Without knowing what would happen, try to assess the potential of each of those guys before the start of the season. I think you might be surprised at what it was like before it all happened.

I think were in need of a Divac although some would argue Hayes could be that guy. yes i realize there will never be another Divac. but obviously this team is way less talented as a whole. and Hayes is a captain right off that bat.

however higher up on the list in order of what i think we need. A talented and actually gifted passing PG, a Head Coach that can fit and work with this group , a Coaching staff that can help develop everyone that includes a big man coach for Cousins. possibly new owners??? and to find a way of moving salmons haha.... other than that this team is ready to win!!!

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Cousins is safe. Hes the future and theres no way we trade him until the back end of his next contract

No way? I can think of a few ways I'd trade him and I'm a big DMC fan. For example...Kings get Greg Monroe, Brandon Knight, and Tayshaun Prince, Pistons get Cousins, Salmons, and Jason Thompson. I'd probably do that trade, but I doubt the Pistons would!

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

No one is safe in my book. This team is so poorly constructed on a chemistry and fit level that you pretty much have to be open to anything possible to achieve improvement, including trading Evans and Cousins.

 

[Bricklayer]

Obviously our three top guys are safe. Not from fans, but fortunately you guys don't run teams. You also have to believe that Hayes will be safe for a while unelss he's part of a deal for a major player. We were too happy happy aobut him and pimped him too hard for him not to be. And Jimmer...unless the organization panics here and suddenly realizes its made an error, again too much hype and pomp associated with him for them to reverse course so quick. Everybody else has to be considered in danger.

Times like these are when organizations panic and do the big stupid though and set themselves back years, so we will see.

 

[ParniValjak]

Cousins and Reke are safe as houses and most likely Thornton.

We have invested far too much into Hayes to just turn our back to him this quickly, especially considering that he is injured. Everyone else is fair game. Jimmer has too much marketing appeal to trade away this quickly and someone with a shot like that always sticks around in this league so I would thinks its too early to end that experiment, especially with all the $$$ that's coming in.

Considering how big a flops our off-season moves have been so far, I am extremely nervous that we might actually do something stupid and dig ourselves into a bigger hole.

Our off-season moves:

Hickson - flop so far and we even threw in a 1st rounder
Salmons - major flop.
Jimmer - flop so far, though its pretty early.
Outlaw - flop to the max.
Hayes - flop so far. To be fair he has been injured but even pre-injury he has not been an elite defender and has been taken to cleaners by his opponent.

I get depressed every time I think about how much better we would have been if we just kept Dalembert, Beno and signed one good SF free agent (AK47 or even someone like Prince). The ball movement just would not be as bad and we wouldn't be this crap defensively. To top it off, we might have actually done all of that for as much money as we got our current lot in (maybe more) but that team would be a hell of a lot better than the one we are seeing now. It wouldn't even be a contest.

 

[KevinSalvadori]

I'd trade Tyreke for nearly anyone right now- I can't think of a more over-hyped player I've ever seen wear a Kings uniform. Dreadful. Try moving him to SF first, but I'd get rid.

Salmons is Salmons- nobody wold take him, and he's fine (albeit overpriced) off the bench. I'd focus my attention more on what we need to get this team right, rather than who to get rid of. My picks:

- Acquire a distributing PG and end the Tyreke PG experiment. My pick? Andre Miller. Denver could want a utility swingman with range (Garcia) and a big man they can use as a project to spell Nene (Thompson).

- Get a real SF. And preferably someone with attributes beyond a scorer. AK would have been great, but if Reke can't work out something else is needed.

- A real backup C, someone that can block and rebound and won't shoot first. Maybe package Koufos with Miller from DEN, or sign a cheap project from the FA market. My pick is Koufos.

- Grab a nice utility player with playoff experience to help this team mature. My pick? Leon Powe- Petrie has liked him, and he's a local guy. Currently an FA and could be had cheap.

New lineup:

C- Cousins
PF- Hayes
SF- Evans
PG- Miller
SG- Thornton
------
6- Salmons, SF
7- Fredette, PG
8- Greene, SG/SF
9- Hickson, PF
10- Thomas, PG
11- Koufos, C
12- Outlaw, SF
13- Powe, PF/C

The main thing this team gets is experience and depth. I would then focus my efforts on getting a major, elite PF in the offseason or via trade, potentially using Outlaw, Salmons and possibly Evans as the trade chips.

 

[KevinSalvadori]

Cousins and Reke are safe as houses and most likely Thornton.

We have invested far too much into Hayes to just turn our back to him this quickly, especially considering that he is injured. Everyone else is fair game. Jimmer has too much marketing appeal to trade away this quickly and someone with a shot like that always sticks around in this league so I would thinks its too early to end that experiment, especially with all the $$$ that's coming in.

Considering how big a flops our off-season moves have been so far, I am extremely nervous that we might actually do something stupid and dig ourselves into a bigger hole.

Our off-season moves:

Hickson - flop so far and we even threw in a 1st rounder
Salmons - major flop.
Jimmer - flop so far, though its pretty early.
Outlaw - flop to the max.
Hayes - flop so far. To be fair he has been injured but even pre-injury he has not been an elite defender and has been taken to cleaners by his opponent.

I get depressed every time I think about how much better we would have been if we just kept Dalembert, Beno and signed one good SF free agent (AK47 or even someone like Prince). The ball movement just would not be as bad and we wouldn't be this crap defensively. To top it off, we might have actually done all of that for as much money as we got our current lot in (maybe more) but that team would be a hell of a lot better than the one we are seeing now. It wouldn't even be a contest.

I wholeheartedly agree. Why in the hell did we trade Beno, and how did we think Dalembert was over it? I'd have signed Hayes AND kept Dally. Prince would have been great too, but my heart is still set on AK. That team would have been way better- Jimmer wasn't worth Beno.

 

[mac]

I will never understand why so many people are hell bent on playing Tyreke at the 3. It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[KingsCitizen]

I will never understand why so many people are hell bent on playing Tyreke at the 3. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Same here.

 

[Nighthawk1]

I will never understand why so many people are hell bent on playing Tyreke at the 3. It just doesn't make sense to me.

I don't know but it's getting annoying and idiotic.

 

[Chupacabra]

Is everyone really that hyped on Jimmer? Im not. I dont see what there is to get hyped over. He was a great shooter in college. Yet to be seen in the NBA. His D looks awful. Decent passer. Thats my honest assessment. Id almost rather trade him while his stock is high but then again id like to see if he develops into a sniper.

 

[bajaden]

I think were in need of a Divac although some would argue Hayes could be that guy. yes i realize there will never be another Divac. but obviously this team is way less talented as a whole. and Hayes is a captain right off that bat.

however higher up on the list in order of what i think we need. A talented and actually gifted passing PG, a Head Coach that can fit and work with this group , a Coaching staff that can help develop everyone that includes a big man coach for Cousins. possibly new owners??? and to find a way of moving salmons haha.... other than that this team is ready to win!!!

See! I can agree with you. I think Petrie envisioned Hayes as the Vlade of this team. Jury is still out, so we'll see. I do think Vlade was a tad taller. I think either Thomas or Fredette could develop into our PG, but both are a considerable distance from that goal. We have around 400 SF's on the team and none of them are worthy of starting right now.

I watched the game last night, and then went back and rewatched parts of the first half. It was obvious that Dallas was going to do everything they could to take both Cousins and Evans out of the game. And it worked. But with anything, in order to get something, you have to give up something, and we had no one else on the team that could make them pay. It wasn't as if we didn't get open shots. We did! We just couldn't hit them. Just a pittiful performance.

As far as who is safe? Probably only Cousins and Evans, and if the right offer comes along, who knows? Never say never!

 

[bajaden]

Is everyone really that hyped on Jimmer? Im not. I dont see what there is to get hyped over. He was a great shooter in college. Yet to be seen in the NBA. His D looks awful. Decent passer. Thats my honest assessment. Id almost rather trade him while his stock is high but then again id like to see if he develops into a sniper.

None of this is fair to Fredette. If he had been drafted by the Lakers or any contending team, he wouldn't be thrust into the spotlight the way he has been here. He's just going through rookie adjustments. Did anyone on this fourm see Steve Nash his first year? How about John Stockton? Dirk Nowitzki was allmost booed out of town his first year.

Are we seriously going to pass judgement on a players career after 13 regular season games? Are we that impatient? The fact that this franchise has been suffering for the last 6 or 7 years, or more, isn't Fredette's fault. Its not his fault he had very little training camp and only two preseason games. Its not his fault the coach got fired. He's hardly the problem with this team.

What this franchise lacks, is stability. And that starts at the top. First through ownership, and then the GM. If your having a coaching carousel, then you didn't pick the right coach to begin with. If thats because you don't have the money to pay the right coach, then new ownership is needed. If its because of bad judgement, then whoever did the judging needs to go.

Personally, I'm way past caring whose pulling the strings, Petrie or the Maloofs? Its someone's fault, and if no one will own up to it, then fire the obvious person, Petrie. I like Petrie, and for the most part I think he's done a very good job in some areas. But everything runs its course, and it may be time for a change of direction.

There's an old saying, "You can never go back". There's a lot of truth in that saying. I think Petrie is trying to go back, and sometimes thats like trying to put square pegs into round holes. You just end up with a mess of pegs on top of the table.

 

[bajaden]

I wholeheartedly agree. Why in the hell did we trade Beno, and how did we think Dalembert was over it? I'd have signed Hayes AND kept Dally. Prince would have been great too, but my heart is still set on AK. That team would have been way better- Jimmer wasn't worth Beno.

Actually, aquiring Jimmer had nothing to do with trading Beno. We could have picked Jimmer with the 7th pick in the draft. Instead we traded down to the 10th pick in order to get Salmons in a trade for Beno. So what you should be saying is that Beno wasn't worth Salmons. Jimmer, who the Kings wanted just went along for the ride, and had little or nothing to do with the trade, other than being the Kings pick at 10 instead of 7.

 

[Bricklayer]

Is everyone really that hyped on Jimmer? Im not. I dont see what there is to get hyped over. He was a great shooter in college. Yet to be seen in the NBA. His D looks awful. Decent passer. Thats my honest assessment. Id almost rather trade him while his stock is high but then again id like to see if he develops into a sniper.

I am getting there myself, but then again I was never hindered by any delusions that some 6'2" combo guard shooter guy out of BYU was going to be a star. Those players have falied again and again and again in the NBA. If I was caught by the hype at all it was in even allowing for the possibility because somehow Jimmer was different.

That said, as a general rule I am always about letting rookies have a couple of years before you write them off. Whatever his physical limitations there is undoubtedly a lot of the mental to Jimmer's struggles right now, and presumably that will get better with experience. I think the tipping point here might be #1, how much extra trade value a Jimmer might have today because of the hype (but note he was taken 10th, so the hype may have been bigger for fans...and Maloofs, than it was other GMs) vs. what we are hoping/waiting for as a finished product. He just has to improve, but how much? If he has star stuff, you sit on that. But if he's high ending as a smaller Beno, then that's a guy you can move for more immediate help. In fact if that's true we should never have traded the original away. I've been squinting around here trying to see what in Jimmer's game could one day be an invaluable thing for us. There are things that could help, but are they unique things that could help more than anybody else we could get back in return? A couple of years ago you say sit and wait, becuase that's where we were developmentally. Today we need to start winnning, and Jimmer isn't giving us anything. I still say sit and wait if there is a chance of him blowing up. But if the chance is just that he eventually becomes a useful roleplayer, then there may not be much to lose.

 

[VF21]

I think were in need of a Divac although some would argue Hayes could be that guy. yes i realize there will never be another Divac. but obviously this team is way less talented as a whole. and Hayes is a captain right off that bat.

That's why I said a "2012 Divac." A newer model - which Hayes could well be - of a veteran whose presence could be the foundation we need to build on.

 

[Glenn]

Actually, aquiring Jimmer had nothing to do with trading Beno. We could have picked Jimmer with the 7th pick in the draft. Instead we traded down to the 10th pick in order to get Salmons in a trade for Beno. So what you should be saying is that Beno wasn't worth Salmons. Jimmer, who the Kings wanted just went along for the ride, and had little or nothing to do with the trade, other than being the Kings pick at 10 instead of 7.

Although the trade was not directly Jimmer for Beno, we let Beno go because we thought Jimmer would be able to replace him in the lineup as the first guard off the bench. So far it's not working nor should we be expecting it to work immediately. Who knows, maybe the FO wanted Beno gone to have another year at sucking and to have the team mature together in a few years. Suck one more year, get a great draft pick, and have a team all 25 years or younger developing together. Fill in the open spots with vets willing to take a low salary.

In any case, after scoring the least amount of points in the history of the Sacramento Kings era, people will naturally wonder what the heck is going on.

 

[Svidza]

Tyreke - His playstyle will never be conductive to winning and has terrible understanding of the game.
Salmons - Terrible fit, we got him do play defense and being 6-6 205 he cant guard sfs, also he never was catch and shoot player that we need at sf.
Jimmer - Hes here just because he fits perfectly on paper with Evans and because of marketing potential. If hes playing bad with Evans who i would trade, he wouldnt play any better with Thornton or most other sg-s.
Hickson - Doesnt play defense, we dont need 2 short bigs and Hayes is more useful. Thompson is better all around player who will more likely resign with us this summer.
Outlaw - Useless signing, Greene is better defender and chucks less.



Our most effective lineup in last few years was Udrih-Thornton-Garcia-Cousins-Dally after Evans injury last year and i believe we should try to build something like that before all our current players lose trade value.
I think Cousins will have to play pf for 4-5 more seasons with some defensive center like Dally until he figures things out and improves. Right now when playing center hes constantly in foul trouble and and does good job mostly only when matched up vs undersized centers or pf-s. Remember how effective Dalembert Cousins Thompson frontline was at the end of season, i think they were statistically top 3-4 big man rotation after all-star break last season.

PG? -thomas
thornton -garcia
SF? -greene
cousins -thompson
C? - hayes

 

[KevinSalvadori]

Any situation that gets us a true PG and puts Evans at SG (where he belongs, if anywhere), also moving Hayes and MT to the bench works for me. My ideal?

Trade for Hinrich, put Kirk at PG OR pull 3-way to get Bargnani from TOR with Kleiza, likely giving up JJ, JT, Salmons, Greene and Garcia for the lot.

C- Cousins
PF- Bargnani
SF- Kleiza
PG- Hinrich
SG- Evans
-------------
6- Hayes, C/F
7- Thornton, SG
8- Whiteside, C
9- Fredette, PG
10- Powe, PF (Sign as FA)
11- Outlaw, SF
12- Thomas, PG
13- Honeycutt, SF

If it goes bad, Hinrich is gone at the end of the year and we still have Evans to dangle.

 

[Bricklayer]

you just intentionally traded for Bargnani and Kleiza. And in Bargnani's case you did it by giving up nothing but garbage.

all of this panic stuff is just over the top. But even if peopel are going to have us panicking like idiots, asking the other team to do so simultaneously is a bit much.

 

[Sac.1989]

No way? I can think of a few ways I'd trade him and I'm a big DMC fan. For example...Kings get Greg Monroe, Brandon Knight, and Tayshaun Prince, Pistons get Cousins, Salmons, and Jason Thompson. I'd probably do that trade, but I doubt the Pistons would!

The sum of the parts there would put us in line to grab an 8th seed but i still dont do the trade and neither do they. DMC has the ability not just to get us to the playoffs but to the very top which i doubt those 3 can for us. Its why i hold onto DMC unless its for Dwight or some other superstar.

 

[KevinSalvadori]

you just intentionally traded for Bargnani and Kleiza. And in Bargnani's case you did it by giving up nothing but garbage.

all of this panic stuff is just over the top. But even if peopel are going to have us panicking like idiots, asking the other team to do so simultaneously is a bit much.

Listening to Raptors fans, it's not a stretch- their management is saying they want to build around DeRozan and Davis, and Bargnani, while solid, is being seen as the runner-up for teams in the Dwight Howard contest (no joke) and they want to cash in. They want a young talented guard, a high-ceiling big, and/or a scorer and pics. Evans and Thompson fit that bill, the key would be getting a proven PG to replace Evans.

 

[Bricklayer]

Listening to Raptors fans, it's not a stretch- their management is saying they want to build around DeRozan and Davis, and Bargnani, while solid, is being seen as the runner-up for teams in the Dwight Howard contest (no joke) and they want to cash in. They want a young talented guard, a high-ceiling big, and/or a scorer and pics. Evans and Thompson fit that bill, the key would be getting a proven PG to replace Evans.

Wait, now we're trading Evans for the league's biggest wuss? I thought it was just a pile of spare parts.

As an aside, Andrea Bargnani is just about the polar opposite of the type of player you put next to a player like Cousins.

 

[upinsmoke]

I don't know but it's getting annoying and idiotic.

60-99

 

[KevinSalvadori]

Wait, now we're trading Evans for the league's biggest wuss? I thought it was just a pile of spare parts.

As an aside, Andrea Bargnani is just about the polar opposite of the type of player you put next to a player like Cousins.

Fair enough- I still love Carolija's suggestion in the last thread for JaVale McGee. That would work....although the Wiz wouldn't like it.

 

[Bricklayer]

Fair enough- I still love Carolija's suggestion in the last thread for JaVale McGee. That would work....although the Wiz wouldn't like it.

Bit of oddness with McGee is it seems liek peole always add him to the list of problem characters that they need to move to revive Wall, yet for me he's one of the only guys i like there. No idea if that line fo thinking exteneds to their front office or not. Moving Blatche I understand. Young is about the most one dimensional guy in the league. Crawford is an idiot. But McGee has a very valuable skillset. Their loss if they want to move him.