Time to fire the coach

#1
Ok, I have tried to be patient and give this a chance, but there are too many things going wrong right now. Let's just review the facts:

1 - Our star player is underperforming and is not playing at a consistently elite level. I know he had some injury issues, but a coach is supposed to help his best players play at their peak. Quite frankly, none of our "stars" look great.

2 - Our young players are exciting, but erratic and making too many mistakes. A coach is supposed to teach these fundamentals, yet our young players turn the ball over too much and have poor shot selection on top of their inconsistency.

3 - We have a coach who is supposed to be a genius and know his offense and defence, yet we have only scored 100 points or more in 4 of the last 12 games and even had 78 in one of them. Yuck! During this same stretch, the opposition has scored over 100 8 times (one other game they had 99, so almost 9 of 12). Basically our coach can't get the team to play defence and his wide open offense isn't clicking with out players. Frankly this team looks ill prepared at times.

4 - Our record is terrible, there's no way we're going to make the playoffs in the tough Western Conference. Right now we are 11-16, which puts us 5 games under .500 and is no where close to making the playoffs. Furthermore, we have trouble holding leads and have lost too many games in the 4th quarter. This team isn't good and that reflects on the coach. I know that he is new, but I already think letting go of our old coach was a mistake.

On top of all of this there's players grumbling on the bench. Petrie's no help, he traded our best player for a disgruntled star and some of his draft picks look really questionable right now. His big free agent acquisition is too old to get better and looks shaky at times already. All this and we have no shotblockers, I think Petrie has lost it. And while we won't make the playoffs our record will still be too good to get a top pick like we need and allow us to draft a young big man. So why are we hanging onto a mediocre coach who we got off the trash heap from the Warriors after he couldn't even get them into the playoffs and had similar problems there?

I think our action plan needs to be firing the coach immediatley. I don't know who this Rick Adelman guy is, but he's not getting the job done. If we fire Adelman we can try to trade some of our stars and tank. If we get the top pick we can draft Elton Brand to be our future center and give us the shotblocker we need. If we do this, we might have a chance in 1999-2000.



Ok, obviously this post was sarcastic; however, there have been a lot of posts about firing Muss recently or at least questioning the replace Adelman with him. I think we all need to take a step back and remember that he has only been coaching this team for 23 games (well, they're playing 24 right now) and it takes time for teams to gel and adjust. While the comparison isn't 100% perfect, I think it serves as a good reminder that the Rick Adelman era started off very shaky and a lot of people had major doubts at that point about whether or not that team would be any good. The biggest difference between now and then is the fan base. If Muss had led the team to this record after 15 stright losing seasons we would have the same cautious optimism we had back then. Right now we have all been so fortunate to by watch so many good playoff teams that people are naturally overreacting to a rough start to the season.

As a final thought, let's actually give Muss a full season before we start talking seriosly about whether or not he's a good coach or a good fit. Let's see if the team shows improvement over the next 59 games or if the team quits on him and limps to the finish line. Right now we are only 1 game back of the last playoff spot and definitley have the potential to make a major push just like we did in 1998-1999. Right now it is way too early to draw any real conclusions about this team or this coach, let's revisit this some time in April when we can actually start to draw some accurate conclusions.

(edited with some bold and italic text based on suggestions below, sorry if this post went on too long before getting to the "punch line")
 
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VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#2
This is gonna get very ugly...and I'm predicting right now it will end up closed.

EDIT: Thankfully, I was wrong. I'm glad that someone can post an insightful thread that's a little different without it automatically inciting some people to over-react.

Nice job, Sptsjunkie. I think it's something we can talk about...

:)
 
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piksi

Hall of Famer
#3
Can we at least wait till the game is over before we fire him. It would be hard to find another coach 5 minutes before game
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#6
That was my point entirely, pdx. People will assume one thing, skim the first post - if they read it at all - and respond accordingly.
 
#7
That was my point entirely, pdx. People will assume one thing, skim the first post - if they read it at all - and respond accordingly.
HA HA , Glad I read what you posted VF as I was ready to fire off. Being a member of the master skimmer over'ers.. that could of been trouble..

YES READ THE FULL POST! LOL
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#8
My counter to the first post:

This Adelman guy has coached two teams to the NBA Finals. We KNOW he can get it done at a very high level.

All this Muss guy has proven is that he interviews well and knows how to lose. He'll get his season, no doubt. But the situations are apples and oranges.
 
#9
My counter to the first post:

This Adelman guy has coached two teams to the NBA Finals. We KNOW he can get it done at a very high level.

All this Muss guy has proven is that he interviews well and knows how to lose. He'll get his season, no doubt. But the situations are apples and oranges.
This Sloan guy was allowed to stay on through a massive and painfull rebuilding and his team is back on the way to top. I am not ready to fire this coach yet, but I am always up to pour scorn over the worst ever non-firing firing in the NBA - letting Rick go last summer.
 
#11
This Sloan guy was allowed to stay on through a massive and painfull rebuilding and his team is back on the way to top. I am not ready to fire this coach yet, but I am always up to pour scorn over the worst ever non-firing firing in the NBA - letting Rick go last summer.
All this does is give more fodder to the 'Why the hell did we fire Adelman' cannon. Utah is a very smart organization...it only took them a little over 2 years to rebuild their entire franchise after losing 2 Hall of Famers and a bunch of others. I think that Petrie guy that we have knows how to do that, he did it with us back in 98' with the quickness. But the difference is...he blew the team up and made smart moves after doing so. All that's been going on the last couple of years since we traded our franchise in Webber, is a bunch of patchwork that has gotten us nowhere. It's time to blow this popsicle stand and start new!
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#12
This Sloan guy was allowed to stay on through a massive and painfull rebuilding and his team is back on the way to top. I am not ready to fire this coach yet, but I am always up to pour scorn over the worst ever non-firing firing in the NBA - letting Rick go last summer.
All this does is give more fodder to the 'Why the hell did we fire Adelman' cannon. Utah is a very smart organization...it only took them a little over 2 years to rebuild their entire franchise after losing 2 Hall of Famers and a bunch of others. I think that Petrie guy that we have knows how to do that, he did it with us back in 98' with the quickness. But the difference is...he blew the team up and made smart moves after doing so. All that's been going on the last couple of years since we traded our franchise in Webber, is a bunch of patchwork that has gotten us nowhere. It's time to blow this popsicle stand and start new!
I think that was the point.
 
#13
Oh brother.......

When you hire an NBA coach you have to give him a minimum of two years to figure out what he can do with the personnel you have. Anything less than that and it's just embarrassing.
 
#15
Oh brother.......

When you hire an NBA coach you have to give him a minimum of two years to figure out what he can do with the personnel you have. Anything less than that and it's just embarrassing.
Agree.

It's not like Muss walked into the Mavs or Suns and took them into the cellar.

I'd rather have a good lottery pick than a one and out playoff this season anyway. It's probably our best hope.

Muss might be a good coach, he might not, but at this point it's really too soon to pass final judgement. He's going to make mistakes, that's a given, the question is does he learn from them. He needs time.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#16
Muss might be a good coach, he might not, but at this point it's really too soon to pass final judgement. He's going to make mistakes, that's a given, the question is does he learn from them. He needs time.

Its doubtful he has much. But not this year -- firing Muss now, or anytime soon, would be a true sign of organizational panic, of a franchise spiraling into chaos and uncertainty. He will get this year. Then the grand tradition is for the coach to start the next season as well, get a chance to turn it around in yr 2, and if he gets off to a disappointing start, to can him midseason in search of a differnt direction. That different direction guy then normally takes over, gets a sweetheart 8-10 stretch where all the guys really play their best fo the new guy + try to showoff and earn PT, and then the honeymoon ends and the team normally goes back to sucking. Not always (see Karl in Denver) but normally. If we are patient, he gets two years. If the Maloofs are really hasty, he gets one and a scapegoat sign hung around his neck. The question is after 8 staright years of winning and making the playoffs under Adelman, and then scapegoating him and chasing him out of town under the auspices that the new coach would take us further...how much rope is Muss really going to have? He could get hung by delusional owners and a PR machine trying to save face much faster than he would under normal circumstances.
 
#17
My counter to the first post:

This Adelman guy has coached two teams to the NBA Finals. We KNOW he can get it done at a very high level.

All this Muss guy has proven is that he interviews well and knows how to lose. He'll get his season, no doubt. But the situations are apples and oranges.
Brick, you are almost absolutley correct (the knows how to lose comment is a bit unfair). As I said the comparison is not exact.

However, I think you are forgetting the feeling among Kings fans when we were in this position in 1998. Yes Adelman had made the finals; however, those Blazer teams were also extremely talented. Seriously, look at those rosters, a lot of people made solid arguments that it was the talent, not Rick who won games after Adelman's terrible stint in Oakland. After the Blazers fired Rick he had a such a terrible tenure with talented but troubled Warriors teams that he wasn't even given serious consideration for another NBA job. When Petrie decided to hire Adelman, he was coaching his sons Division 3 college basketball team (I believe, this might not be exact but it is close). He was not even on the NBA radar. When we started out terrible, there were a lot of Kings fans questioning his hiring and the team we had. While it is easy to look back now with our fond memories of Rick, he was widely doubted at the time. So again, the point of my original post was not that Muss is a great coach that people are being mean to. The point is that you cannot judge a coach after 23 games. We legitimatley need to give him at least one year before we can make any educated judgements about his coaching ability. Say what you want about Rick's past performance, but even as a "great" coach it took him half a season to get a much more talented version of the Kings to play .500 ball. While we might miss Rick, we need to give Muss equal time before we start questioning his talent and acument as a coach.


(And for the record, I was against firing Adelman; however, the second we did my first choice for a replacement was Muss, I told friends that the day of Rick's firing. So take that for what it is worth. I am in favor of full disclosure. ;) )
 
#19
Good post sptsjunkie -- some Kings fans (me included) forget that it wasn't a bed of roses that first season of Webber/Divac/Williams/Adelman and it took a very late surge for that team to even make the playoffs.

Granted, the excitement level was different because that team was actually fun to watch compared to the previous 12 years, and this team is painful to watch because of the success that has happened in the past 8 years. But the situations, both from a roster perspective and a basketball perspective are very similar.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#20
But the situations, both from a roster perspective and a basketball perspective are very similar.
You mean besides us returning almost the entire roster untouched from an offseason of inactivity and getting radically worse results?

I rather doubt there were any fire Rick Adelman threads that first year simply because we had ALWAYS been bad, almost the entire roster was brand new and had never played together, and there were zero expectations. That last season before Rick arrived had damn near cost the city its team, and the fans had abandoned the old barn. But now Muss takes over a crew that Adelman had singing down the stretch last year, even has the benefit of a new and improved Kevin, and things have crumbled. That feels pretty different to me.
 
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#21
You mean besides us returning almost the entire roster untouched form an offseason of inactivity and getting radically worse results?

I rather doubt there were any fire Rick Adleman threads that first year simply because we had ALWAYS been bad, almost the entire roster was brand new and had never played together, and there were zero expectations. That last season before Rick arrived had damn near cost the city its team, and the fans had abandoned the old barn. But now Muss takes over a crew that Adelman had signing down the stretch last year, even has the benefit of a new and improved Kevin, and things have crumbled. That feels pretty different to me.
Yeah, maybe. I guess I meant more that you have an incomplete team with a new coach trying to form an identity and struggling early. This current team isn't exactly showing a whole lot of glimmers of hope, but I still think if you plopped this team in Arco in 1998, even with all its problems, people would have been pretty excited.

Partly, yeah, this feels like a crumbling team, but also I think the team and organization are suffering from a perception problem and a fan base that's used to instant gratification because of the years of success.
 
#23
I always look back and remember my ex-girlfriends fondly forgetting why I ever broke up with them.

I'm not so sure Adelman would have a better record with this particular group, keeping in mind that every member of the starting five with the exception of Kenny Thomas has been out or dealing with injuries at some point. The Kings also seem to have had an inordinate amount of back-to-backs to start the year. But who knows, maybe Adelman could have gotten a couple of extra wins this year and the Kings would be 13-12 (they were 10-15 last year, albeit without Artest). But would that make anyone more optimistic about the team's future. The problem is personnel, not the coach.