Thoughts on the rotation

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by jcassio, Aug 23, 2017.

  1. The_Jamal

    The_Jamal Well-Known Member

    Wont happen unfortunately, because young guys have to "earn" their playing time for some stupid reason, but I would love to see:


    as the starting 5 and giving those 6 guys serious court time together. I don't understand why we're going to wait a year to give the future of our team time to develop on the court with each other. We're not going to win games, so to me, I would make giving that unit 600+ minutes of on-court time together and start developing chemistry and cohesion with one another as the biggest priority of the season. Who cares if they make mistakes and are sloppy at times? Let them learn as a unit and grow up as a unit. To me, that's going to lead to MUCH better Kings basketball in 2 or 3 years.

    That's not to say you just give them free reign; that was the whole point of bringing in the vets. Fox getting wild and screwing up? Go to Hill. Skal making dumb mistakes? Go to ZBO. And you can literally do that down the line for each position. I think that's even more effective development, because you can use those sub outs as perfect opportunities for coaching saying "Ok, you did x, but we need you to do y" sort of stuff. But there's tremendous value in developing them as a unit and getting to used to playing with each other. That's not going to happen if they're being subbed in off the bench one at a time.

    Also, with another Top 5 pick coming in next season, it would be extremely helpful if we knew which of our young guys played well with each other and look like future starters so we can prioritize in the draft.
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
  2. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    Because the staff knows how to develop talent and making them earn it has worked well. Throwing rooks out there to flounder hasn't worked so well. We have all seen it.
    Spike, pshn80 and VF21 like this.
  3. The_Jamal

    The_Jamal Well-Known Member

    I mean, this is just being results-oriented. Tyreke? Boogie? Should we have waited for them? And look how trying to make IT "earn it" turned out for us... dude became an all-star after doing nothing but balling out for us the entire time he was here.

    I think we all agree, Fox should be getting 25-28 MPG and he above everyone else on the team is probably the one piece we can pencil in to be here in the next 3 years. Why not let him get MORE minutes with Buddy/Skal/WCS/JJ, I.e, guys he has a likely chance of playing next to for the foreseeable future now and start the process of actually building something here? And I can say the same for any of the 6 young guys I expect to be apart of the rotation this year (leaving out Mason, Giles and Papa for the time being).

    Basically, I want the keys in the hands of the 6 young guys and to sprinkle in the vets to provide leadership/mentorship/calmness/professionalism on the floor when its needed. Not the other way around.
    The Effort Police likes this.
  4. The Effort Police

    The Effort Police Active Member

    Have we? Who in recent years other than Ben McLemore has been thrown into the fire? T-Rob? Jimmer? Stauskas? Those guys averaged around 15 MPG. You could argue their development was stunted because they rode the pine more than they were thrown into the fire, but my opinion is that they just weren't good anyway and didn't deserve more minutes. We threw Boogie and IT into the fire and they did fine.

    How do we know our current guys have developed well because they've earned a spot rather than they knew how to play basketball and have talent? We don't; we don't actually know if them earning minutes has done jack for their development.

    Anyway, if Joerger wants to hold out the ones that truly aren't ready (*coughPapacough*) and make them earn it, he won't get any complaints from me. But some of them will be ready to get bigger minutes. What's the point of them riding the pine to "earn it"? And if we're so concerned about ALL of our young players being irreparably broken by the NBA or needing to earn minutes behind mostly washed up or bench-caliber vets for a while, how viable is this rebuild to actually succeed?
  5. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Well first thing is that I think you have to make those young guys earn their minutes. This shouldn't be a GLeague team. No offense to any of the young guys we have, but none of them have shown enough to make me think one of them is our franchise player. There's no one who can lead that team. You're throwing a squad of 5 young, but extremely unproven players out there against seasoned and proven NBA players. With that same starting 5, none of them can create shots for eachother. Fox is the only one, but even he's average at best for a PG. The flow will be terrible. When you have a guy like Skal out there, are you putting him in a position to succeed by surrounding him with youth and inexperience? I think this could be disastrous in their learning curve.

    Plus.. we saw that same squad in SL minus WCS. They were horrific. They were terrible. All of this against SL players.. DL guys.. some players who won't make NBA rosters.
    VF21 likes this.
  6. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    I think Fox can get his 24 minutes and we agree on that, it just might come off the bench at first....I just don't see what is wrong with that. But you had Jackson in the starting lineup too. He is not an elite talent going into this season unless he shocks everyone.
  7. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    Well, if you want to cherry pick the 3 of Cuz, Tyreke and IT and use the philosophy that it worked for them, it should work for the other guys......I don't know what else I could say.

    Yes, Stauskas got thrown into the mix and wasn't ready, same for the other guys. Didnt necessarily start but they weren't ready. Notice how Skal and Malachi and Papa and to an extent WCS got sat by Joerger. Especially with WCS who played much better after his stint of sitting. He even came out and said that it made him realize some things that he needs to earn it instead of relying on the fact that he was a 1st round pick.

    If these young guys show during training camp and preseason and early season that they can do it right, then I'm sure they will get more minutes. They shouldn't be given big minutes until they can show Joerger they can play team D and run the plays on O. It works.
    pshn80 and VF21 like this.
  8. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    I don't agree with the "making them earn it" thing as well. It started with Joerger not playing the youth extensively periods last year. Rebuilding teams play their young players. Talent eventually shines through whether or not someone is thrown into the fire

    Although now that the vets are here, I'm fine with Hill starting because I still think we can make a run until it's not feasible. Carter/Randolph won't help the win now department much either though
  9. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    All the young guys will see minutes. Some of those minutes will be in Reno and most of the rest will be coming off the bench. All the guys will get a chance to shine at some point this season though. Very few players go 82 games without time off for some reason. I do believe the vets will start but play limited minutes. When a Vet goes down to injury or needs some rest next man up is a 1st or 2nd year player.

    I am excited about the depth of this Kings team. Especially the Guards where the Kings are 3 deep at PG and 5 deep at SG. I think Jakarr Sampson could be the surprise player of the year coming off the bench to defend the big mobile players that are all over the NBA. One interesting thing is that Jakarr is listed as weighing less that Justin Jackson who many are saying is too thin and weak to defend in the NBA:) We shall see!
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
    pshn80 likes this.
  10. pshn80

    pshn80 Well-Known Member

    I trust our coach and his staff. I'll go along with THEIR judgement on this matter. I have offered here what think their view will be but I am looking forward to whatever they decide.
  11. jcassio

    jcassio Well-Known Member

    Despite the predictions of many Kingsfans, Joerger proved last year that he knows how to develop young talent. If he has win-now marching orders from the front office, then he's going to coach differently. But clearly the Kings are not in a win-now mode. So those of you who are so concerned about the few veterans we have getting all the minutes and the youngsters development stymied as a result, I think you're just needing to find drama. Everybody will get their opportunities. And who starts, especially at the beginning of the season, doesn't mean diddly. I don't think any of our recently signed veterans became Kings because they thought they would get all the quality minutes for their position and lead us into the playoffs. I think they came here for the right reasons.
    John Galt, Warhawk, VF21 and 4 others like this.
  12. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    I posted in another thread that I listened to a podcast today with Jason Ross and Sean Cunningham. Cunningham interviewed Coach Joerger yesterday at his charity event. In the interview, Joerger stated he planned on having a 10 man rotation, and that success this season would be making sure that the young players got plenty of burn (minutes) in order to improve. Improving the young players is at the top of his list. However he also stated that they would have to earn their minutes. He felt competition brought out the best.

    In part of that interview that I saw on line, he spoke highly of Jackson and commented on his work ethic and how he's been in Sacramento working out with some of the other young guys. He said he invited all of them to come in early to get a head start on the learning process. Not mandatory of course and they can come and go as they please, but he's been pleased with the turnout. I also wrote in the other thread that I agreed with Cunningham that the Kings should pick up the option on the 4th year of Joerger's contract as a show of good faith.
    kingsfan1984, Warhawk, pshn80 and 3 others like this.
  13. jcassio

    jcassio Well-Known Member

    For those of you who didn't (or won't) read the interview, here's a big statement on the rotation:
    "I think you partner with management on the deal. How can we see who can play? How can we perform at the best level? How can we create a culture of competitiveness where you are rewarded for doing things right and the better players play? So, all of those things factor into it." -Dave Joerger
  14. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    Joerger is bad ass
  15. ockingsfan

    ockingsfan Well-Known Member

    With 3 pre-season games under their belts and one week away from the start of the 2017-18 season, Coach Joeger has expressed his desire to have a consistent 10 man rotation when the regular season starts.

    From the looks of pre-season, I think that coach will start very Veteran heavy in the starting lineup.

    I think the Starting line up and 10 man rotation will be (bolded) ....

    PF: Randolph / Skal / Giles (Rehab)
    SF: Temple / Carter / Jackson (G League)
    C: KK / WCS / Papa (G-League)
    SG: Hield / Bogdan / Richardson
    PG: Hill / Fox / Mason
    DesertFox likes this.
  16. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    I'd like to see him run out the starting lineup from the first preseason game, the vet lineup of Hill, Temple, Carter, Zbo, and Koufos and then replace them with the young guys as they start subbing in guys. It worked well in that game, maybe try that again just to take a look at it again. Keeps the youngsters together who want to run and uptempo.
  17. Nokidding

    Nokidding Member

    PG: Fox
    SG: Hill
    SF: Hield
    PF: Z-Bo
    C: WCS

    You have spacing with Hill/Hield/Z-Bo and someone to breakdown the D in Fox which will help WCS for easy dunks. Mason can be the back up PG or they can somewhat stagger the minutes of Hill/Fox so one is always there running the show.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2017
    CelticsFan likes this.
  18. jcassio

    jcassio Well-Known Member

    I agree, except for Jackson. If you've been reading and listening to Joerger, he's high on Jackson. He'll find minutes for him in the rotation, and I'll be shocked if he isn't the starting SF by the ASG.

Share This Page