I don't want to see any more 3 pg shots from Spencer Hawes! He has no business shooting them at all. How many has the dude made this year anyway? Spencer, you're a center! now act like one! Go inside and post up and rebound. No more 3 pointers please, you're NOT Dirk Nowitski! He has plenty of post moves. He just needs to man up and go inside. HOw good would this team be if we had an inside presence?
The Spencer Hawes NO More 3 Point Shots Campaign!!!
- Thread starter ElRey
- Start date
When hes on, he can knock em down. That doesn't exactly mean he should be shooting them all game long.
The only time we should ever consider having Spencer Hawes shoot the 3 ball is if its the last possession of the game and we're down.
Have him inbound the ball, kick it right back to him for the win. We ran that play for years with Webber and it really caught teams off guard.
The only time we should ever consider having Spencer Hawes shoot the 3 ball is if its the last possession of the game and we're down.
Have him inbound the ball, kick it right back to him for the win. We ran that play for years with Webber and it really caught teams off guard.
Last edited:
THe problem is, it's part of his "game". I'm sure he's encouraged to shoot them, but unless he starts to hit them I don't see any reason anyone should defend him on the perimeter (which no one really has lately and rightfully so). If he really plans to shoot 3's then he better practice them but as far as I'm concerned that's time better spent in the paint on his post moves which he has the talent to do...
Spencer's attitude and hustle don't match the new spirit of this team. He manages to pull off a few good minutes each game, but that just shows me he can do it, but isn't motivated enough to give 100% all the time (or even half the time). He seems like he has the same no hustle baggage that Brad Miller had in his last years with the Kings, without the talent Brad had.
Having him as a starting player on our team is going to be painful to watch unless he changes his attitude (?) commitment (?), dramatically.
Having him as a starting player on our team is going to be painful to watch unless he changes his attitude (?) commitment (?), dramatically.
yeah and he doesn't help his cause with all those little primadonna incidents like the last-minute-cancel Summer league thing, or refusing to certain drills during training camp. The talent is there, he just needs some guidance and unfortunately Brad Miller wasn't exactly your ideal role model! Can we sent him to Pete Youngman's Big Man camp every year?
Last edited:
Spencer was actually 35% from 3 last year, which isn't bad for a big man at all. IMO, thats a good threat to have, if used selectively in the right situations. A big that is a 3pt threat can drag opposing centers out, opening lanes, and also give the pf(JT in this case) more room to operate in the post, without worrying about the center coming over for a block.
Now, there's a big difference between what Ijust describes and Spencer running to the 3pt line because it appears he's affraid to bang down low. There's also a big difference in hitting 40 3's last year at 35 %, and not connecting on a single attempt this year. Being selective is the key. Vlade and Webber both frequently took jumpers, as it was part of there games, but they also were not afraid to bang under the basket and posted-up just as much as they took jumpers.
JT and Spencer both have the ability to post-up and shoot jumpers. Thats what could make them such a versatile duo down the road. We've all seen Spencer's post moves, he has them. He has the talent to develop a good post-up game. I don't think Spencer taking jumpers is the problem. I think the problem is Spencer taking jumpers AND contributing nothing in the paint. When he does that he becomes a non factor.
Now, there's a big difference between what Ijust describes and Spencer running to the 3pt line because it appears he's affraid to bang down low. There's also a big difference in hitting 40 3's last year at 35 %, and not connecting on a single attempt this year. Being selective is the key. Vlade and Webber both frequently took jumpers, as it was part of there games, but they also were not afraid to bang under the basket and posted-up just as much as they took jumpers.
JT and Spencer both have the ability to post-up and shoot jumpers. Thats what could make them such a versatile duo down the road. We've all seen Spencer's post moves, he has them. He has the talent to develop a good post-up game. I don't think Spencer taking jumpers is the problem. I think the problem is Spencer taking jumpers AND contributing nothing in the paint. When he does that he becomes a non factor.
You better talk to the coach. As far as I know Spencer doesn't determine where he sets up in the offense. Westphal wants him out there to open things up for Tyreke. Problem is, Spence needs to get his confidence up, and to do that he needs to get the ball fed to him inside. Maybe Westphal compromises some and temporarily puts Spence down low, then moves him outside after his confidence increases.
I hope Westphal (and Coachie) have some flexibility about that idea. It takes away Hawes' greatest assets as a player (size, offensive post game) and cuts his rebounding potential, while offering nothing much in return but a handy floor position to play a semi-Princetonian C from.
In a way, we've already been through this. Vlade couldn't spread the floor to save his life, but it worked anyway. Brad could spread the floor a bit, but it didn't work out so well for us.
I hope the coaching staff will try to makes Hawes into a tougher, non-flopping Vlade, rather than Brad II. He'll never have Vlade's amazing leadership skills, but I think he still has the potential to do the rest, with good coaching and a lot of motivation. And, to be either Vlade II or Brad II, he needs to improve his ball handling/passing. Without that, there's not even any point in having him on the perimeter. That's what I'd be focusing on now, not the stupid 3 balls.
Our guards and SFs can all shoot 3s. If that isn't enough to spread the floor any, we must be doing something wrong.
In a way, we've already been through this. Vlade couldn't spread the floor to save his life, but it worked anyway. Brad could spread the floor a bit, but it didn't work out so well for us.
I hope the coaching staff will try to makes Hawes into a tougher, non-flopping Vlade, rather than Brad II. He'll never have Vlade's amazing leadership skills, but I think he still has the potential to do the rest, with good coaching and a lot of motivation. And, to be either Vlade II or Brad II, he needs to improve his ball handling/passing. Without that, there's not even any point in having him on the perimeter. That's what I'd be focusing on now, not the stupid 3 balls.
Our guards and SFs can all shoot 3s. If that isn't enough to spread the floor any, we must be doing something wrong.
Well I think that one could argue that Thompson is an inside presence, since thats where he spends most of his time. However, I get your point. I don't have a problem with Hawes taking an occasional 3 Pt shot. Especially when he's wide open. Actually, if he keeps missing them like he has lately, he'll find himself wide open all the time out there.
I've watched Hawes and Thompson very carefully the last two games. And there's a distinct difference, other than the fact that Thompson doesn't shoot 3 pointers. When Hawes gets the ball in the post, high or low, he hesitates briefly. As though he's undecided what he's going to do. The result is that by the time he decides, he's now being double teamed. And too many times it results in a forced shot, or a turnover.
When Thompson gets the ball in the post, he immediately does something with it. He'll either try and post up his man, step back and shoot a jumper, or try and pass to an open teammate before the passing lanes close. Now you can agrue that Thompson sometimes makes the wrong decision, and maybe doesn't recognize the double team coming from the weak side, but he doesn't hesitate. He's actually reacting to the defense better than Hawes is. And Hawes is more talented in the post than Thompson is.
To me, it looks like Hawes has a lack of confidence in his game. This will sound strange, but, it looks at times that Thompson moves too fast for the game. But with Hawes, it looks at times that the game is moving too fast for him. If the latter is true, then it means he's thinking too much instead of just reacting. The NBA is tough. You can't throw thought completely out the window. But at the same time, you can't let it dominate your game. And I think Hawes tends to be too cerebral. Practice, practice and more practice. And then get you butt down low and practice in the games.
I've watched Hawes and Thompson very carefully the last two games. And there's a distinct difference, other than the fact that Thompson doesn't shoot 3 pointers. When Hawes gets the ball in the post, high or low, he hesitates briefly. As though he's undecided what he's going to do. The result is that by the time he decides, he's now being double teamed. And too many times it results in a forced shot, or a turnover.
When Thompson gets the ball in the post, he immediately does something with it. He'll either try and post up his man, step back and shoot a jumper, or try and pass to an open teammate before the passing lanes close. Now you can agrue that Thompson sometimes makes the wrong decision, and maybe doesn't recognize the double team coming from the weak side, but he doesn't hesitate. He's actually reacting to the defense better than Hawes is. And Hawes is more talented in the post than Thompson is.
To me, it looks like Hawes has a lack of confidence in his game. This will sound strange, but, it looks at times that Thompson moves too fast for the game. But with Hawes, it looks at times that the game is moving too fast for him. If the latter is true, then it means he's thinking too much instead of just reacting. The NBA is tough. You can't throw thought completely out the window. But at the same time, you can't let it dominate your game. And I think Hawes tends to be too cerebral. Practice, practice and more practice. And then get you butt down low and practice in the games.
A
thompson moves way too fast for his own good... its nice to have a speed advantage against other bigs but it hurts him more than it helps. hawes needs more room than thompson does to operate. that and thompson has more tip shots than jump shots, there isnt much he has to think about. he just has to tip it in.
I believe he was talking about his POST-UPs, not his touches in the paint. I tend to agree that when JT catches the ball in the post, he either starts backing in, faces up, or kicks it back out almost immediately. His biggest weakness is recognizing the double-team when it comes from his blind side (needs to get a better feel for that).
Hawes seems to wait too long to start his move and is often double-teamed before he starts it. In the one game that he played really well, he wasn't hesitating in the post. Basically, Hawes needs to play aggressive, NOT passive.
Hawes seems to wait too long to start his move and is often double-teamed before he starts it. In the one game that he played really well, he wasn't hesitating in the post. Basically, Hawes needs to play aggressive, NOT passive.
First of all, I was talking about both players overall game. Not just a specific part, like tips. But even there, Thompson just reacts. I stated that at times he's going to fast for the game. As far as Hawes needing more room, or not, he still reacts slowly giving the defense more time to set up against him. Hawes has another bad habit in that he likes to put the ball on the floor all the time. All bigs do it from time to time, but how many times have you seen someone steal the ball from Hawes simply because he puts it on the floor or he brings it down to waist high. Duane Causwell was never able to correct that mistake. That dude could be standing directly under the basket and he would still put the ball on the floor. Next thing you know, some little short guy was going the other way with the ball.
I mean all these things are correctable. Hopefully! Here's my problem. Its year two for Thompson, and I see improvement. He still has a long way to go, but he's definitely better now than he was a year ago. With Hawes its year three. And I don't see improvement. If anything I see regression, and that bothers me. I know its only nine games, so I'm not going to have any kneejerk reactions. But it does concern me.
I mean all these things are correctable. Hopefully! Here's my problem. Its year two for Thompson, and I see improvement. He still has a long way to go, but he's definitely better now than he was a year ago. With Hawes its year three. And I don't see improvement. If anything I see regression, and that bothers me. I know its only nine games, so I'm not going to have any kneejerk reactions. But it does concern me.
Agreed, but JT also had that problem last year (dribbling before he did anything). I'm not sure if JT worked it out himself or if someone coached him on it, but if someone did they need to get with Spence on the problem asap.
I'm just counting days until the official "trade hawes thread...." get's started lol
I'm just counting days until the official "trade hawes thread...." get's started lol
We have a power forward who moves too fast and a center who moves too slow. 
In the last game, Spencer looked like he was playing in mud. His layup got blocked. His jumper got blocked. He got stripped dribbling the ball. He got stripped holding the ball. He just looked extra s-l-o-w out there. to exacerbate the issue, he hesitates when his confidence ebbs. The concern is that you can't fix slow. So hopefully he will figure out how to maximize the other aspects of his game, such as playing with more confidence, with less predictability, with more saviness and better court vision and awareness. Hopefully everything will fall into place when his confidence returns.
In the last game, Spencer looked like he was playing in mud. His layup got blocked. His jumper got blocked. He got stripped dribbling the ball. He got stripped holding the ball. He just looked extra s-l-o-w out there. to exacerbate the issue, he hesitates when his confidence ebbs. The concern is that you can't fix slow. So hopefully he will figure out how to maximize the other aspects of his game, such as playing with more confidence, with less predictability, with more saviness and better court vision and awareness. Hopefully everything will fall into place when his confidence returns.
We have a power forward who moves too fast and a center who moves too slow.
In the last game, Spencer looked like he was playing in mud. His layup got blocked. His jumper got blocked. He got stripped dribbling the ball. He got stripped holding the ball. He just looked extra s-l-o-w out there. to exacerbate the issue, he hesitates when his confidence ebbs. The concern is that you can't fix slow. So hopefully he will figure out how to maximize the other aspects of his game, such as playing with more confidence, with less predictability, with more saviness and better court vision and awareness. Hopefully everything will fall into place when his confidence returns.
In the last game, Spencer looked like he was playing in mud. His layup got blocked. His jumper got blocked. He got stripped dribbling the ball. He got stripped holding the ball. He just looked extra s-l-o-w out there. to exacerbate the issue, he hesitates when his confidence ebbs. The concern is that you can't fix slow. So hopefully he will figure out how to maximize the other aspects of his game, such as playing with more confidence, with less predictability, with more saviness and better court vision and awareness. Hopefully everything will fall into place when his confidence returns.
Difference being if Josh Smith didn't shoot 3s he'd still be 10times the shot blocker Hawes will ever be, and still be effective simply by running up and down the court.
Side note: Why don't we ever hit our big men running on breaks? As in not total fast breaks but say just off a opponent's miss. JT is always like way down the court when tyreke/beno haven't crossed half court. I was watching the Atlanta Boston game and that happened several times with horford way in front. Bibby just threw a long pass straight to horford for an easy dunk.
Side note: Why don't we ever hit our big men running on breaks? As in not total fast breaks but say just off a opponent's miss. JT is always like way down the court when tyreke/beno haven't crossed half court. I was watching the Atlanta Boston game and that happened several times with horford way in front. Bibby just threw a long pass straight to horford for an easy dunk.
I don't mind him not shooting anymore three's but I like him out there. I think the space he creates for Reke and Udrich inside by being out beyond the arc is far more valuable then what he brings posting up all the time. This is my only real hangup on the Okafor trade... we're gonna sacrifice some spacing when he's on the floor and he's not gonna make up for it in back to the basket offensive production.
Consider this more directed at that entire oft repeated and erroneous line of argument than at yourself:
Its a truly odd development how 90% of NBA champions somehow survive their spacing being sacrficed to have their big men play down inside. Or at least within shouting distance of inside.
I mean, I'm sure their are petitions underway in L.A. (Bynum) Boston (Perkins), Orlando (Howard), Cleveland (Shaq), Denver (Nene) etc. to get those pesky inside guys out to the perimeter out of the way of the guards and all (note BTW that only Howard is entirely out of Okafor's class as a scorer at this point). But you know how bigs can be on contending teams -- always wanting to go inside and dominate around the hoop and all. Fools! We are the Kings! We worship soft play and jump shots! We haven't won a title in 50 years, but hey, we know how its done. We scoff at the entire history of the league. Who needs a Ben Wallace when you can have a Brad Miller? The superiority of our tactics is self-evident.
Its a truly odd development how 90% of NBA champions somehow survive their spacing being sacrficed to have their big men play down inside. Or at least within shouting distance of inside.
I mean, I'm sure their are petitions underway in L.A. (Bynum) Boston (Perkins), Orlando (Howard), Cleveland (Shaq), Denver (Nene) etc. to get those pesky inside guys out to the perimeter out of the way of the guards and all (note BTW that only Howard is entirely out of Okafor's class as a scorer at this point). But you know how bigs can be on contending teams -- always wanting to go inside and dominate around the hoop and all. Fools! We are the Kings! We worship soft play and jump shots! We haven't won a title in 50 years, but hey, we know how its done. We scoff at the entire history of the league. Who needs a Ben Wallace when you can have a Brad Miller? The superiority of our tactics is self-evident.
Last edited: