Stern to coaches: Cool it on complaints!

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#1
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-0606050084jun05,1,904892.column?coll=cs-bulls-utility
Stern to coaches: cool it on complaints
BY SAM SMITH
Chicago Tribune

It's spring, which means planting flowers, playing golf and, if you're an NBA player or coach, complaining about officiating.

There has been quite a bit of that in these playoffs, and it didn't help when the NBA rescinded a technical against Michael Finley from San Antonio's overtime game against Dallas. As their series wound down, the Suns and Mavs were sending dueling complaints to the league office about the other's alleged cheap shots and dirty play.

NBA Commissioner David Stern said he has had about enough. He believes the actions of the players and coaches trickle down to the fans and cast doubt on the game. He has quietly told the players and coaches to button it.

"We've sort of delivered the message to the coaches," Stern said. "(When) a coach loses a game because a call went the wrong way, I'm never going to say you can't let off some steam.

"When we started the season we said, `Let's tell the assistant coaches they don't have a lot to add to the dialogue with the officials,'" Stern said. "Next season's project will be to persuade the players. Since I've been commissioner there have probably been 35,000 calls a season times 22, and the next call that gets overturned because a player complained will be the first. So it's not a productive enterprise."

But if the NBA really wants to help the officials, it could do something about the block/charge, which remains the call most frequently questioned. So many players are flopping, you wonder if the "skill" is taught before dribbling in Europe.

The league installed the small circle under the basket as a restricted zone where a player cannot draw a change. But the best way to end the bogus practice is to stop calling so many charges. A charge should be called only when a defender plays good defense and moves his feet and still gets run over by the player he is guarding.

Even though zones are allowed now, hardly anyone plays them for more than a few minutes. Sliding over to get in front of a driver is hardly good defense. It's a trick, and it's time the NBA recognized that.

KNICKS' SOAP OPERA
"Dead man walking" was Larry Brown's description last week of his amazing situation in New York, where a classic game of chicken goes on. The Knicks want Brown to quit so they don't have to pay him the $40 million he is owed for four more years. Brown wants it. So Brown's bosses are not talking to him as he works out draft prospects. They hope Brown will violate his contract by not showing up at the predraft camp this week. Others say Brown will go to the camp to network for another job.

Only a year ago New York reporters were staking out Brown's Long Island home and getting comments from him about becoming Knicks coach to save the franchise. Now they're yelling questions in a similarly surreal scene as Brown leaves the Knicks' training facility each day. Police were called one day to keep the reporters back.

They now huddle on a traffic island near the facility. Last week, they watched as Brown's and general manager Isiah Thomas' cars nearly collided in the rain as the two sought to avoid the media. Typical of the Knicks' situation, they missed.

Reporters then followed Knicks owner James Dolan when he played with his band, JD and Straight Shot, at a New York club. Knicks staffers attended to keep reporters away from Dolan.

NO DOUBTING THOMAS
It wasn't a great conference finals finish for Tim Thomas, who fouled out with eight points trying to guard Dirk Nowitzki after Nowitzki had 50 in Game 5. But Thomas had a remarkable playoff run, averaging 14.7 points and shooting 50 percent overall against the Mavs and 52 percent on threes.

"Getting Tim Thomas was a stroke of luck," Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said. "Getting him when Kurt (Thomas) went down saved the season. . . . without him we couldn't have done all this."

But again, Thomas would not have worked so well with the Bulls. They could not have gotten anything for him without giving up almost all their salary-cap room because they would have had to take on $14 million in contracts.

"His body," D'Antoni said, "is kind of that slow-twitch kind of thing where you think sometimes he's really not putting out all the effort." Even though he was the tallest Sun on the court, the 6-foot-10-inch Thomas averaged only 4.6 rebounds against the Mavs as the Suns positioned him to shoot three-pointers.

Suns owner Robert Sarver, meanwhile, may have been a little premature in declaring that former GM Bryan Colangelo would not get a ring if the Suns won the NBA title. They were tied 2-2 with Dallas in the Western Conference finals at the time and didn't win another game.

"Bryan doesn't work for the organization, so it wouldn't seem to make sense," Sarver said.

He was saved from that delicate issue with the Mavs' win.

WEB OF TRUTH?
The Nuggets and George Karl said Karl was misquoted in suggesting he will take over team personnel with Kiki Vandeweghe gone. The Nuggets' Web site is pressing the issue, recently posting this: "A word to the wise, Nuggets fans: Don't believe everything you read in the paper, see on television or hear on talk radio."

The message claimed certain reporters "will deliberately refuse to report the facts" and went on to cite situations with two unnamed columnists. One refused to meet with team officials to clear up alleged misconceptions and another refused to identify a source when the Nuggets asked, violating, according to the site, "the No. 1 rule of journalism."

Only on the site can fans be assured of getting the Nuggets' side of the story, it declared, and it will act as a journalism review for the benefit of fans.

The Denver Post, meanwhile, talked to Shawn Kemp, who said he is trying to return to the NBA and would like to rejoin Karl, his coach in Seattle.

1 LESS SHAQ-HACKER
Not that it should alter the series, but the Mavs lose six fouls to go against Shaquille O'Neal for four games with DJ Mbenga's suspension for going into the stands. Mbenga was not in uniform, and Mavs reserve Darrell Armstrong said he told Mbenga to go into the stands to help coach Avery Johnson's wife, who was in a dispute with fans after asking them to sit down. Johnson apparently suspended his wife for one game because she didn't attend Game 6 in Phoenix.

SHORTER STORY
In another installment of Amazing Atlanta Hawks tales, general manager Billy Knight told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution he wouldn't rule out drafting still another 6-8 swingman.

"I always take talent," Knight said. "I like good basketball players, and there are a lot of 6-foot-8 players in the draft. And 6-foot-8 is the ideal size."

Knight has an ally in 76ers GM Billy King. "I'd like to get two more 6-6 or 6-8 athletes," King said. "In watching the playoffs, you watch Dwyane Wade, you watch LeBron (James), you watch Shawn Marion - you need more athletic 6-6, 6-8 guys. A lot more teams are going small, playing a 6-8 small forward at the power forward position."

DOUBLE DRIBBLES
Eric Musselman takes over in Sacramento after the Kings talked with WNBA coach John Whisenant and Golden State assistant Mario Elie . . . Another assistant's name starting to gain notice with Dallas' run to the Finals is Rolando Blackman. . . . Karl Malone is easing back into the NBA. He worked with the Jazz in analyzing draft prospects last week and said he was contacted by the Hornets before Hurricane Katrina about perhaps working for them back home in Louisiana.

Stanford's Danny Grunfeld, son of former Knicks GM Ernie, worked out for the Knicks and hopes to be a second-round pick. . . . Former Bull Jay Williams worked out for the Raptors and is expected to work out for the 76ers and Cavs. Scouts said he didn't seem to be as explosive as he was, but it's an amazing comeback. The first word the Bulls heard after his 2003 motorcycle accident was his leg would be amputated.

Little-used center Kelvin Cato is a free agent and mentioned the Bulls as a team he believes he can help. The Pistons "just never really had any confidence to use me," Cato said. . . . One of Pat Riley's playoff motivational efforts was taping Yogi Berra quotes to players' lockers. Udonis Haslem never heard of Berra and told reporters Riley gave them Yogi Bear quotes. . . . Byron Scott is selling his New Orleans house and has a home now in Oklahoma City. Scott said it was just a good time to sell with market conditions.

Antonio McDyess, the only Detroit core player without a championship ring, took it hard when the Pistons lost to Miami in the Eastern finals. "This feels like the end," he said. "It doesn't feel like I'm ever going to come close to that ring again. It seems like I had the best chance of winning it last year. And now it seems like it faded away, and I don't think it'll ever come back."
 
#2
Ok, so don't give the officials more training etc. Just tell the coaches to not talk so much, as well as the players, because it pulls the curtain back on the game and casts doubt with the fans.

Listen up Mr. Stern. We don't need the coaches to have doubt. We doubt it as much as they do, as they are on the court yelling about it at the same time we are. How about training officials more on what is a flop and what is real, and calling to the letter of the rule.
 
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VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#3
I'm reprinting what Hicks said at PacersDigest because I really agree with it. (See, Hicks, I told you I'd steal it...but at least I'm giving you the credit)...

Hicks said:
I think they should make the rule that only the head coach and 1 designated player can talk to the refs at all during the game. If someone else tries to, they get 1 warning, and then the team gets a T every time afterward. Either the team, or the player himself (meaning he's tossed for doing it twice, or getting one in-game T and one ref-T). The NBA badly needs to end what's happening right now. Too much jaw-flapping, to much yelling at the refs while not getting back on D (Hello Stephen Jackson), too much whining, too many drama queens after tough or bad calls (Hello Rasheed "Do A Little Dance" Wallace), and so forth. It needs to end. It's embarassing.
 
#4
^^^ That's a bad, bad idea. Guys talk friendly to the refs all the time, it just doesn't get any attention. Players aren't just complaining- if you watch during the games they actually point trends out that are happening or ask why they get fouled- like in all sports everyone has to adjust to how the refs are calling things on any given night, and refs sometimes need to adjust to the play style. And often, guys are just friendly with each other. Refs and players laugh and jaw with each other all the time. A little bad press shouldn't cause people to overreact so much. Guys complaining too much sucks (as we Kings fans should know well) but it doesn't mean communication should just be cut off. Players would be more frustrated, a lot of stuff would break down, and actual confrontations would be a lot worse. What next, no mingling with the fans?
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#5
Talk about over-exaggerating. The guys that talk to the refs aren't doing it because they like the guy. They're doing it to try and curry favor. Sure, maybe the idea of NO COMMUNICATION whatsoever is a little overboard, but I don't see any problem with forbidding players from complaining about the calls. What's the down-side? Not being able to watch Kobe's whiney face?

I am never more embarassed to be a Kings fan than when our guys stand there and whine about a call while the other team is down at the other end of the court scoring an easy two points.

Hick's comment said "during the game." If a player wants to approach an official during commerical break or something, I'd have no problem with it. But I'm sure sick of the temper tantrums, whining, posturing, etc. that goes on.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#6
Actually I'd glad Stern sent out this memo -- its long overdue. Can't think oif another sprot where the complaining has reached such an obscene level, and it really does stain the sport.

Entirely apart from official's training or whatnot, simply not in anybody's interest to have the coaches/players constantly playing official politics through the media.
 
#7
VF21 said:
Not that it should alter the series, but the Mavs lose six fouls to go against Shaquille O'Neal for four games with DJ Mbenga's suspension for going into the stands. Mbenga was not in uniform, and Mavs reserve Darrell Armstrong said he told Mbenga to go into the stands to help coach Avery Johnson's wife, who was in a dispute with fans after asking them to sit down. Johnson apparently suspended his wife for one game because she didn't attend Game 6 in Phoenix.
LOL!

I dunno..but i laughed uncontrollably after reading that...
 
#8
VF21 said:
Talk about over-exaggerating. The guys that talk to the refs aren't doing it because they like the guy. They're doing it to try and curry favor. Sure, maybe the idea of NO COMMUNICATION whatsoever is a little overboard, but I don't see any problem with forbidding players from complaining about the calls. What's the down-side? Not being able to watch Kobe's whiney face?

I am never more embarassed to be a Kings fan than when our guys stand there and whine about a call while the other team is down at the other end of the court scoring an easy two points.

Hick's comment said "during the game." If a player wants to approach an official during commerical break or something, I'd have no problem with it. But I'm sure sick of the temper tantrums, whining, posturing, etc. that goes on.

Well, if it's during play, there should be no speaking to the refs at all, not even coaches or a designated player (so the superstar doesn't have to go back on D and the coach can take a stroll onto the court?) But when guys are taking a FT, during a TO or commercial break, what's the problem? If they cross the line, they'll get T'd up. Otherwise guys can jaw off. Not everything is whining and posturing. Sometimes people just chat. Cutting off all communication seems absurdly extreme to me. During play is a good idea, though.
 
#9
I'll add to this that I didn't think about the positive angle (rare as it may or may not be) of players and refs talking, so you could alter the idea to mean if something wrong is said, he can T their best guy. So in that case, basically things stay the same, except what that whistle blows, and he signals the technical foul, it's not automatically going to be on the offender, but rather the star. That would shut guys up very quickly.

It's also the reason I doubt it ever happens, because the NBA can't have its precious stars in jeopardy. Wouldn't want that.
 
#10
Wow did you guys read that quote by Mcdyess? I feel pretty bad for him. He was a really good player before he got injured and now the guy feels like he'll never ever win a ring. That's gotta hurt to be robbed by injuries your whole career and then when you have a chance you get so close but still don't get what you want the most-that championship ring.
 
#13
BMiller52 said:
Wow did you guys read that quote by Mcdyess? I feel pretty bad for him. He was a really good player before he got injured and now the guy feels like he'll never ever win a ring. That's gotta hurt to be robbed by injuries your whole career and then when you have a chance you get so close but still don't get what you want the most-that championship ring.
I always felt sorry for Nique. Got traded to the Clippers when the Hawks finally topped the Central Division (94 - MJ sabbatical). He had to rehab after an Achilles rupture a few years before that. Hawks did him dirty. What's more, Manning sucked in Atlanta and left as a FA that offseason. Nique hit the wall hard after that final season in Atlanta. They would've seriously challenged NY (or Chicago) that year for a Finals berth, but that was his last gasp at a ring and it was taken away from him. You don't often see teams do that to their 12-year star in the middle of a breakout season.
 
#14
"When we started the season we said, `Let's tell the assistant coaches they don't have a lot to add to the dialogue with the officials,'" Stern said. "Next season's project will be to persuade the players. Since I've been commissioner there have probably been 35,000 calls a season times 22, and the next call that gets overturned because a player complained will be the first. So it's not a productive enterprise."
Do I agree with David J. Stern? What's happening to the world we live in?

But if the NBA really wants to help the officials, it could do something about the block/charge, which remains the call most frequently questioned. So many players are flopping, you wonder if the "skill" is taught before dribbling in Europe.

The league installed the small circle under the basket as a restricted zone where a player cannot draw a change. But the best way to end the bogus practice is to stop calling so many charges. A charge should be called only when a defender plays good defense and moves his feet and still gets run over by the player he is guarding.

Even though zones are allowed now, hardly anyone plays them for more than a few minutes. Sliding over to get in front of a driver is hardly good defense. It's a trick, and it's time the NBA recognized that.
Thank goodness somebody mentioned this. It is so annoying to see players falling all over the damn floor instead of playing defense. That's all Jason Collins did in the New Jersey/Miami series. He didn't challenge Shaq not once. He continually fell on his a** in the paint for five straight games, trying over and over again to draw the offensive foul.

It may be ironic that a Kings fan - one who admired how Vlade would bait Shaq into the offensive foul - is complaining about a flopping defender, but don't forget that Vlade got dunked on five times for every time he tried to draw the charge. He actually played defense, and when the opportunity presented itself, he would overreact to try to get the foul call. But Collins was falling all over the place, all series long. No exaggeration. When Vlade did it, is was an art form. Now it's an over-used ploy to avoid what we called "getting dogged" in the '90s.

This is a real problem in the NBA. Players don't try to cut the offensive player off anymore. They don't try to block shots anymore. They don't try to break up fast breaks anymore. They hop over in front of the ballhandler, and as soon as there's any contact - no-charge zone or not - they flop backward, arms flailing, mouthpiece flying, and get the call the majority of the time. I think it should be called a delay of game when a player flops, the as same it would be if a defensive player came down court and laid his big seven foot a** across the paint with no contact. It's really ridiculous.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I miss Shaq's dominance circa 2000-01. I want to see him dunk on every flopping "big man" in the NBA, starting with Jason Collins and ending with Zydrunas Ilgauskas. Over and over again.

What's the world coming to when a Kings fan is agreeing with David Stern and longing to see Shaquille O'Neal dominate the playoffs? Sheesh...

:: steps off soap box and walks away, shaking head in frustration ::
 
T

thesanityannex

Guest
#16
"Originally Posted by Hicks
I think they should make the rule that only the head coach and 1 designated player can talk to the refs at all during the game. If someone else tries to, they get 1 warning, and then the team gets a T every time afterward. Either the team, or the player himself (meaning he's tossed for doing it twice, or getting one in-game T and one ref-T). The NBA badly needs to end what's happening right now. Too much jaw-flapping, to much yelling at the refs while not getting back on D (Hello Stephen Jackson), too much whining, too many drama queens after tough or bad calls (Hello Rasheed "Do A Little Dance" Wallace), and so forth. It needs to end. It's embarassing."



The talking with the refs is an essential part of the game. It allows the players to understand what will and will not be called during the course of the game. Rules will change with different refs and the players must be allowed to communicate with them at all times. Rules will even change during the course of the game. I agree about the whining and complaining part you mentioned, but to outright ban communication between all players and referees is laughable.
 
T

thesanityannex

Guest
#17
^^^missed what Capt. Bill said. Pretty much repeated what he said.




I really think there is so much complaining in this sport because of the fact it is such a hard sport to referee. I can't think of any other sport that is so fast, has a small amount of players on a small court, and has what seems like constantly changing rules night in night out.
 
#18
It's sad when fans of a particular team are checking online or reports to see who is officiating games before the game even begins. I'm hoping they fix that - the games should be about the games and not the refs. I think what Stern's trying to convey is a good start on fixing this...
 
#19
I hate the whining but I think there's a reason it's happening.

I don't trust many calls NBA refs make at all. Even watching non-Kings games I find myself saying "that was a good call" only once or twice as opposed to the opposite which should happen.

I especially hate the status-based favoritism. Why Dwyane Wade or other "superstars" (and especially Shaq, as it has been his entire effing career) can get a call Mike Bibby or Kevin Martin can't. Rules are rules and they should apply to EVERYONE ALL OF THE TIME.
 
#20
Stern can try to shut people up, however, it will not change the perception that the officiating in the NBA is terrible. People perceive that the officiating is terrible because people watch the games. The officiating is especially horrible in the last 2 minutes of the game if the game is on the line ,when the rules from the rest of the game are apparently changed. You know what I am talking about - if you are not a superstar losing blood does not warrant a call and if you are a superstar invasion of your personal space warrants a foul.
I would like to think that my perceptions are distorted by personal biases. However, I do not have the same perceptions or opinions when watching college b-ball, pro or college f-ball, baseball etc. This leaves me with the belief that NBA officiating is, in fact, horrible. It is like the game moves too fast for the officials to call the game accurately. But hey, just ask people to stop complaining and that should fix the problem.:rolleyes:

Then there is this overused and innaccurate statement:

Since I've been commissioner there have probably been 35,000 calls a season times 22, and the next call that gets overturned because a player complained will be the first. So it's not a productive enterprise."

I disagree completely. I would venture to say at least 1x/game a call is changed because someone complains. It always starts with a player throwing a fit and then it progresses to officials conferring and then ends with the call changing. It usually ends with the correct call, but it always starts with the player complaining.
 

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#21
It's not just the NBA it's society at large. Since the Babyboomers Americans have increasingly developed a sense of entitlement with a decreased objectivity. In schools students cheat more and more, tunr in crap work and belive they SHOULD get good grades and second chances. In the workplace people do just enough to keep their job and expect promotions and raises for it. Kids honeslty belive they deserve a new cars, and highpaying jobs and wehn any one dares criticize their work, work ethic or attitude they whine incessently how unfair things are.
NBA palyers may not be the worst in the world but they are dam clsoe. They contract for a job. They show up for work and they are supervied by Reefs, coache and the league. If I whined, complanined and cussed out my supervisors the way the spoiled self centered players, coaches and owners did I'd be fired. Not fiend, not suspended fired! I would love to see NBA fans start sporting shirts and signs with the phrase "Stop whining and play".
 
#23
The whining about the refs have already begun...from Bill Simmons hilarious columns:

For Dallas, it's foul trouble -- they have the right guys to guard Shaq and Wade, but you can't predict those games when all the calls start going Miami's way. And that's the thing that bothers me about this series: No team depends on the refs quite like the Heat. When the refs are calling all the bumps on Shaq and protecting Wade on every drive, they're unstoppable. When they're calling everything fairly, they're eminently beatable. If they're not getting any calls, they're just about hopeless. I could see the refs swinging two games in Miami's favor during this series, possibly three. In fact, I'm already depressed about it and the series hasn't even started yet.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#24
There's a big difference between a columnist making those kinds of comments and a coach, player or TEAM OWNER making those kinds of comments. Of course, Cuban just sends tons of video tape to the league office because lord knows his team is the only team in history that has been victimized by every other team in the league AND the officials.

At this point, a small part of me would love to see the officials do what Cuban has actually been accusing them of all season. It would be poetic justice.
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#25
mavsman said:
The whining about the refs have already begun...from Bill Simmons hilarious columns:

For Dallas, it's foul trouble -- they have the right guys to guard Shaq and Wade, but you can't predict those games when all the calls start going Miami's way. And that's the thing that bothers me about this series: No team depends on the refs quite like the Heat. When the refs are calling all the bumps on Shaq and protecting Wade on every drive, they're unstoppable. When they're calling everything fairly, they're eminently beatable. If they're not getting any calls, they're just about hopeless. I could see the refs swinging two games in Miami's favor during this series, possibly three. In fact, I'm already depressed about it and the series hasn't even started yet.

And as I usually do, its time to preemptively debunk the whining just as fast:


During the regular season, the Heat were called for 22.81 fls/gm.
During the regular season, Heat opponents were called for 23.63 fls/gm.
That's -0.81.

During the regular season, the Mavs were called for 22.36 fls/gm.
During the regular season, Mavs opponents were called for 23.87 fls/gm.
That's -1.51.


Neither team BTW got as much love from the refs are our own Kings, who finished at -2.61, 2nd in the league. Detroit was third at -2.59. Dallas was 5th. Miami 10th. And the Spurs a very middling 14th at -.06.
 
#26
HndsmCelt said:
It's not just the NBA it's society at large. Since the Babyboomers Americans have increasingly developed a sense of entitlement with a decreased objectivity. In schools students cheat more and more, tunr in crap work and belive they SHOULD get good grades and second chances. In the workplace people do just enough to keep their job and expect promotions and raises for it. Kids honeslty belive they deserve a new cars, and highpaying jobs and wehn any one dares criticize their work, work ethic or attitude they whine incessently how unfair things are.
NBA palyers may not be the worst in the world but they are dam clsoe. They contract for a job. They show up for work and they are supervied by Reefs, coache and the league. If I whined, complanined and cussed out my supervisors the way the spoiled self centered players, coaches and owners did I'd be fired. Not fiend, not suspended fired! I would love to see NBA fans start sporting shirts and signs with the phrase "Stop whining and play".
Great point. It's just as bad as the whole "politically correct" movement. The sense if entitlement and over-sensitivity in society today is annoying, at best.
 
#27
bah! the refs suck. and there is no conspiracy behind it. plain and simple: nba has to make money and they will do whatever it takes in their capacity to make it happen. media, refs, schedules, everything. sure, the players, coaches and all other parties are not helping their cases by constantly bitching about almost every call going the other way (benign and malign alike) but that certainly does not mean that the mistakes the refs commit are normal. as for the speed of the game making the right calls more difficult: hogwash! how do the (american) football refs get it right then.

i found it funny that the whole debate had turned into an anti-flopping take (by the way, derek fisher was the biggest flopper; people seem to forget that).