So the cousins trade.......
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Not saying you are ultimately wrong. You may end up being 100% correct. But those comments were in the heat of the moment and of course he was upset. Because he didn't want to leave. But actions speak louder than words. He's still heavily involved in the area. He likes Sac so much that once 18 months go by, it's entirely possible his feelings and stance changes. You never know. If he didn't love the area and fans so much, I'd give it zero chance. But he does. That said, I'd lay odds that he ends up in Washington with John Wall before anywhere else.
I fully agree with you here.
I fully agree with you here.
Looking at all of these stars being traded for pennies on the dollar (Jimmy Butler, Chris Paul, PG???), should make the national media re-think how well Vlade did in the DMC trade.
He basically got 4 first round picks (2016 6th pick: Buddy Hield, 2017: pick 15 Justin Jackson and pick 20: Harry Giles, and as a indirect result of trading DMC mid year, we kept our own high #5 pick: De'Arron Fox. We also got a high 2nd round pick (Frank Mason) for DMC.
Vlade basically rebuilt this whole team in 1 years time! Now that's impressive!
He basically got 4 first round picks (2016 6th pick: Buddy Hield, 2017: pick 15 Justin Jackson and pick 20: Harry Giles, and as a indirect result of trading DMC mid year, we kept our own high #5 pick: De'Arron Fox. We also got a high 2nd round pick (Frank Mason) for DMC.
Vlade basically rebuilt this whole team in 1 years time! Now that's impressive!
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Not everyone agrees that it's a problem. Teams have won titles with players more vocal and more disruptive that Cuz. Draymond Green is a modern example. I'd rather have an emotional player that goes overboard from time to time than a player that never appears to care regardless what happens on the court. But that's just me.
As I've said numerous times, if the Kings hadn't blown nearly all of the draft picks they've had during Cousins tenure, we very likely wouldn't be having this discussion. In 2009, they had the worst record in the NBA -- before Cuz got there. Since adding Cuz in 2010, they never added much of anything else. When you're in the lottery every single year since 2006 and can't attract worthwhile FA, you can't afford to miss in the draft and the Kings not only did that, but took it to another level.
The Kings didn't win when Isaiah Thomas was on the roster either. Neither did Phoenix for the short time he was there. But when he magically joined a competent franchise, he suddenly becomes a key piece of a 53 win team. The one constant during the past 11 years has been the incompetence and instability of ownership and the front office. That above anything else is why this team has continued to lose. Perhaps that has started to change since the arrival of Vlade, Cantanella and Perry. But it's not because DeMarcus Cousins was here or because he's gone now. Or even because you didn't like his attitude. The losing and dysfunction started 4 seasons before his name was called on draft night 2010. The problem has always been much larger than 1 player. That's what most don't want to acknowledge.
If the Kings start winning next season or the season after that, it will be because they finally drafted correctly and managed to collect more than a few good players. And, most of all, because they started functioning like a legit NBA front office. If DeMarcus was suddenly added to the roster tomorrow, it wouldn't change any of that.
As I've said numerous times, if the Kings hadn't blown nearly all of the draft picks they've had during Cousins tenure, we very likely wouldn't be having this discussion. In 2009, they had the worst record in the NBA -- before Cuz got there. Since adding Cuz in 2010, they never added much of anything else. When you're in the lottery every single year since 2006 and can't attract worthwhile FA, you can't afford to miss in the draft and the Kings not only did that, but took it to another level.
The Kings didn't win when Isaiah Thomas was on the roster either. Neither did Phoenix for the short time he was there. But when he magically joined a competent franchise, he suddenly becomes a key piece of a 53 win team. The one constant during the past 11 years has been the incompetence and instability of ownership and the front office. That above anything else is why this team has continued to lose. Perhaps that has started to change since the arrival of Vlade, Cantanella and Perry. But it's not because DeMarcus Cousins was here or because he's gone now. Or even because you didn't like his attitude. The losing and dysfunction started 4 seasons before his name was called on draft night 2010. The problem has always been much larger than 1 player. That's what most don't want to acknowledge.
If the Kings start winning next season or the season after that, it will be because they finally drafted correctly and managed to collect more than a few good players. And, most of all, because they started functioning like a legit NBA front office. If DeMarcus was suddenly added to the roster tomorrow, it wouldn't change any of that.
Yeah and really the point here is not so much who liked playing with or who disliked... blah blah... the point is that everyone's opinion seemed to MATTER so much. At a certain point it just drains energy from the whole team when one guy sucks all the attention/energy/drama towards himself, positive or negative.
The Warriors DID win titles with Draymond Green. And his teammates have called him the "heart and soul" of the team. But (1) he wasn't also the best player to where the team fell apart if he went off the rails and (2) those other stars could often help manage him when he flared up.
For the Kings Cousins was THE guy. It's hard to win when your franchise player/star can't control his emotions and lacks the emotional toughness to play through stretches when he isn't getting calls etc. I've long said that Cousins would be at his best alongside another star where he was the 2nd banana. To an extent that is what is happening in New Orleans, but I think Boogie would be better off with a star PG or wing rather than a fellow big as the main guy. But we'll see.
And yes, the front office finally DID get away from being completely dysfunctional. But as I said early last season, it was already too late. If the team didn't trade Cousins they would likely have missed the playoffs AND lost their 1st round pick. They wouldn't have a single PG under contract and anything but roleplayers signed around Cousins.
So instead of Hield, Fox, Jackson, Giles, and Mason they'd likely have Mason.
And while I like the potential of Skal, Cauley-Stein, Papagiannis, and Richardson, they wouldn't have helped much in putting a winning team around Cousins. Firstly, they are still very young guys (WCS not as much, but the other three for sure) and not near being impact players (if they ever get there) and secondly because three of them are bigs which doesn't make them as useful around Cousins as PGs and wings would be.
Years of ineptitude set up a season like this last one where there wasn't any good path forward with DeMarcus. At best they would have signed more vets around Cousins to give it another try with almost certainly the same results as we saw this season. There just wasn't any way to get from where we were to where we want to be short of some miracle drafting.
Hitching the wagon to Boogie at $40 million a season for five years wasn't going to get the Kings out of the basement.
For the Kings Cousins was THE guy. It's hard to win when your franchise player/star can't control his emotions and lacks the emotional toughness to play through stretches when he isn't getting calls etc. I've long said that Cousins would be at his best alongside another star where he was the 2nd banana. To an extent that is what is happening in New Orleans, but I think Boogie would be better off with a star PG or wing rather than a fellow big as the main guy. But we'll see.
And yes, the front office finally DID get away from being completely dysfunctional. But as I said early last season, it was already too late. If the team didn't trade Cousins they would likely have missed the playoffs AND lost their 1st round pick. They wouldn't have a single PG under contract and anything but roleplayers signed around Cousins.
So instead of Hield, Fox, Jackson, Giles, and Mason they'd likely have Mason.
And while I like the potential of Skal, Cauley-Stein, Papagiannis, and Richardson, they wouldn't have helped much in putting a winning team around Cousins. Firstly, they are still very young guys (WCS not as much, but the other three for sure) and not near being impact players (if they ever get there) and secondly because three of them are bigs which doesn't make them as useful around Cousins as PGs and wings would be.
Years of ineptitude set up a season like this last one where there wasn't any good path forward with DeMarcus. At best they would have signed more vets around Cousins to give it another try with almost certainly the same results as we saw this season. There just wasn't any way to get from where we were to where we want to be short of some miracle drafting.
Hitching the wagon to Boogie at $40 million a season for five years wasn't going to get the Kings out of the basement.
Looking at all of these stars being traded for pennies on the dollar (Jimmy Butler, Chris Paul, PG???), should make the national media re-think how well Vlade did in the DMC trade.
He basically got 4 first round picks (2016 6th pick: Buddy Hield, 2017: pick 15 Justin Jackson and pick 20: Harry Giles, and as a indirect result of trading DMC mid year, we kept our own high #5 pick: De'Arron Fox. We also got a high 2nd round pick (Frank Mason) for DMC.
Vlade basically rebuilt this whole team in 1 years time! Now that's impressive!
He basically got 4 first round picks (2016 6th pick: Buddy Hield, 2017: pick 15 Justin Jackson and pick 20: Harry Giles, and as a indirect result of trading DMC mid year, we kept our own high #5 pick: De'Arron Fox. We also got a high 2nd round pick (Frank Mason) for DMC.
Vlade basically rebuilt this whole team in 1 years time! Now that's impressive!
Assuming that we would lose our first round pick (i.e. overperform Pels record after the trade) is not given regardless how many times in the past few days the above has been repeated.
Sound like a nice feel good story.
Fox, Hield, Mason and cap space is basically what we got (Fox needed a lot of luck, but ok).
I agree that rebuild is ahead of curve and I am also optimistic, but would like to see at least 10-12 nba games before allowing myself to be more excited.
And if they drafted appropriately, perhaps Cousins would have been in more of a Draymond Green like situation, no? That's the entire point.
It's odd how players are perceived differently when they play on deeper, better, more talented teams. Green is considered a leader despite all his antics and ill timed technical fouls. That's because 99% of the time his errors are masked by how good his team is. DMC didn't have that luxury here in Sacramento. And that wasn't his fault. It's all about circumstances.
Imagine for a moment if the Kings had drafted Steph Curry instead of Tyreke in 2009. That realistically could have happened. That team still would have wound up in the lottery and in position to draft Cousins the very next season had they done that. Then imagine if they had drafted Klay Thompson or Kawhi Leonard in 2011, which, again, was entirely possible. What type of conversation would we be having now?
The way things turned out, Steph Curry was once in a similar situation as Cuz. The Warriors weren't very good the season prior to drafting him and then weren't good in the first few seasons after. However, the difference is the Warriors hit the lottery on their subsequent draft picks. They missed in 2010 with Ekpe Udoh, but then hit it big with Klay in 2011 and Harrison Barnes and Draymond Green in 2012. There's your makeover. But had the Kings drafted Steph in 2009 then followed that up by striking out on every pick after (just as they did after drafting Cousins), are we talking about Steph today as a 2-time MVP and NBA champion? Nope. Not a chance.
Again, it's all about circumstances.
It's odd how players are perceived differently when they play on deeper, better, more talented teams. Green is considered a leader despite all his antics and ill timed technical fouls. That's because 99% of the time his errors are masked by how good his team is. DMC didn't have that luxury here in Sacramento. And that wasn't his fault. It's all about circumstances.
Imagine for a moment if the Kings had drafted Steph Curry instead of Tyreke in 2009. That realistically could have happened. That team still would have wound up in the lottery and in position to draft Cousins the very next season had they done that. Then imagine if they had drafted Klay Thompson or Kawhi Leonard in 2011, which, again, was entirely possible. What type of conversation would we be having now?
The way things turned out, Steph Curry was once in a similar situation as Cuz. The Warriors weren't very good the season prior to drafting him and then weren't good in the first few seasons after. However, the difference is the Warriors hit the lottery on their subsequent draft picks. They missed in 2010 with Ekpe Udoh, but then hit it big with Klay in 2011 and Harrison Barnes and Draymond Green in 2012. There's your makeover. But had the Kings drafted Steph in 2009 then followed that up by striking out on every pick after (just as they did after drafting Cousins), are we talking about Steph today as a 2-time MVP and NBA champion? Nope. Not a chance.
Again, it's all about circumstances.
Vlade had the courage to pull the trigger and worry about media+fan reaction later. As of right now he's been totally vindicated imo. Where he goes from here is anyone's guess but his tenure went from an apparent dumpster fire to "so far so good" over the last few months... Pretty impressive turn of events.
As far as the Cousins trade, I think it HAD to happen.
It was not DMC fault, but there was no way Vlade or any GM could had built a winner around DMC after extending him to $40 mil a year.
There was just not enough resources to put a winning team around DMC, especially after we gave him the $40 mil a year extension. We would had lost our 2017 lottery pick (De'Arron Fox) and we would had no salary cap space to add any good players. Plus, the young players like Skal, Papa G, and Malichi would never had seen the court enough to really develop, being that we would had filled the roster with mid-tier talent to try and make the playoffs.
Vlade did the right thing and blew up the team mid season. Just about the only thing he did wrong was criticize or kick Boogie on his way out. I think if Vlade took the high road on the questions, i.e. "I didn't see anyway we could had fielded a competitive team around DMC, if we gave him the super max extension, so I blew up the team and started the rebuild." would had been the better answer at the time.
That being said, I think right now the Kings are in a much better position to win and make a long run in the playoffs in the future, as opposed to us staying the course with DMC.
It was not DMC fault, but there was no way Vlade or any GM could had built a winner around DMC after extending him to $40 mil a year.
There was just not enough resources to put a winning team around DMC, especially after we gave him the $40 mil a year extension. We would had lost our 2017 lottery pick (De'Arron Fox) and we would had no salary cap space to add any good players. Plus, the young players like Skal, Papa G, and Malichi would never had seen the court enough to really develop, being that we would had filled the roster with mid-tier talent to try and make the playoffs.
Vlade did the right thing and blew up the team mid season. Just about the only thing he did wrong was criticize or kick Boogie on his way out. I think if Vlade took the high road on the questions, i.e. "I didn't see anyway we could had fielded a competitive team around DMC, if we gave him the super max extension, so I blew up the team and started the rebuild." would had been the better answer at the time.
That being said, I think right now the Kings are in a much better position to win and make a long run in the playoffs in the future, as opposed to us staying the course with DMC.
Cuz never had beef with the city or the fans. Even when he was kicked out of town he said that he will continue to have camps in the area and that was when he was ripping into Vivek and Vlade. Dude is an open book. There is nothing hidden there, he says what he means and means what he says.
Look I for one would be absolutely over the moon about this. Accumulate many talented youngsters and then when you get that, add Cousins to the team that already has Fox, Skal, Hield, Bogdanovic etc... It would make the rebuild so much quicker especially if any of these youngster reach the all-star potential. But somehow, I just don't see it happening. Bridges have been burn and Cuz is the sort of guy that doesn't forgive or forget.
Look I for one would be absolutely over the moon about this. Accumulate many talented youngsters and then when you get that, add Cousins to the team that already has Fox, Skal, Hield, Bogdanovic etc... It would make the rebuild so much quicker especially if any of these youngster reach the all-star potential. But somehow, I just don't see it happening. Bridges have been burn and Cuz is the sort of guy that doesn't forgive or forget.
I made a similar post somewhere else. Kings had IT and Cousins on the team at the same time even when they let Tyreke walk to NO. That year Geoff Petrie left a chest full of scouting reports on the draftees and recommendation to draft Giannis at #7.
Now imagine if they took on that suggestion and drafted Giannis instead of McLemore, kept IT and still traded for Gay (or they didn't even have to trade for Gay). The core of that team would have been Cousins - Giannis - Gay - IT.
With Malone as the coach, that team could have gone places. That is just since the ownership took over. Let's not forget Maloofs insisting on Jimmer when Klay Thomspon and Leonard were still on board and FO being forced to pick Thomas Robinson when Petrie wanted Lillard. This screams why owners should not mingle into basketball affairs and why front office needs to be made of basketball people that know what it takes to win and can identify talent. Not stat-geek lawyers who wanna be basketball gurus and a former basketballer who ruined one franchise before you bring him onboard.
Now imagine if they took on that suggestion and drafted Giannis instead of McLemore, kept IT and still traded for Gay (or they didn't even have to trade for Gay). The core of that team would have been Cousins - Giannis - Gay - IT.
With Malone as the coach, that team could have gone places. That is just since the ownership took over. Let's not forget Maloofs insisting on Jimmer when Klay Thomspon and Leonard were still on board and FO being forced to pick Thomas Robinson when Petrie wanted Lillard. This screams why owners should not mingle into basketball affairs and why front office needs to be made of basketball people that know what it takes to win and can identify talent. Not stat-geek lawyers who wanna be basketball gurus and a former basketballer who ruined one franchise before you bring him onboard.
So many conflicting reports on Cousins and his teammates, it's hard to know what to think. After reading dozens of snippets about him and his teammates, I get the feeling that he was probably a very confusing person to be around. Seemed like at any moment he could be at your throat and then the next he has his arm around you laughing. Seemed like the kind of guy who probably was the first to call you out but didn't want to take any criticism in return. Willie's interviews post Cousins gave me the impression that he didn't like him. Collison and Cousins went at it on the court and on the bench a lot but he gave him support after he left. Demarcus has also been commenting positively on the young gun's social media pages as well. Not to mention how giddy he looked to see everyone when we played him after the trade. He seemed like the type you either loved or hated but it wouldn't surprise me at all if you had to walk on eggshells around him.
I agree. The Kings ultimately failed Cousins and all of us from 2011 through 2016. Had they drafted better, made solid FA acquisitions and stayed the course with Coach Malone, things could have turned out so much better. But once they effed all of that up, the roster and staff was in such bad shape with regard to talent and assets that winning with Cuz wasn't a realistic option anymore. He was their only real asset and they used to him to start over. I get it.
The teams with the assets and situations to really utilize Boogie did not want him. LA would not give up Ingram.......Ingram. Danny Ainge did not want Boogie. I loved to watch the Big Fella play but apparently his act had worn on many in the NBA. Because based on just his playing ability he should have been a hot commodity. This was not the case and Vlade got the best deal he could I believe.
The haul on Boogie is Fox, Hield, Jackson, Giles and Mason. 4 first round picks and a very early second. What were you expecting???
The haul on Boogie is Fox, Hield, Jackson, Giles and Mason. 4 first round picks and a very early second. What were you expecting???
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From the ESPN article earlier this year:
http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/st...emarcus-cousins-sacramento-kings-real-problem
Yes, I was very upset when I heard what the Kings got in exchange for Cousins. Still am a bit. But the reality is that there likely wasn't a better deal out there unless the Lakers were willing to include their draft pick along with Russell and Randle. I never heard that they were. And the other rumored deals were far worse. I had visions of the Kings getting the two Nets picks from Boston and in reality the Celtics apparently declined to offer anything for Boogie.
http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/st...emarcus-cousins-sacramento-kings-real-problem
Yes, I was very upset when I heard what the Kings got in exchange for Cousins. Still am a bit. But the reality is that there likely wasn't a better deal out there unless the Lakers were willing to include their draft pick along with Russell and Randle. I never heard that they were. And the other rumored deals were far worse. I had visions of the Kings getting the two Nets picks from Boston and in reality the Celtics apparently declined to offer anything for Boogie.