Should Paul Stay or GO?

[BLNINJA #81]

With everything that has been going on lately. I figured I'd create this poll to see where everyone thoughts are on Paul Westphal's tenure.

Feel free to either include anything that has been going on recently or in the past. My current opinion is he must be canned right now, asap, if at all possible. I have a feeling 99% of everyone else feels the same. I figure we let the numbers do the talking.

Hopefully this thread may be seen by those making this decision and push them in the right direction to make a change (or not make a change).

I must admit, despite reading a lot of the prior negativity to him coming here, I was good with the idea of him coaching due to the fact he's had experience. I also thought any past mistakes that were made (in NBA/NCAA) he would have learned from and capitalized upon to create a rising team. Apparently this hasn't been the case, so I've pretty much done a 180% concerning any support he has being here.

You guys/gals may have your different reasons. Feel free to elaborate on either why you want him here or not.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

I voted fire him now. Once you've identified what's stinking up the joint, you don't wait, you dispose of it immediately.

 

[Spok22]

I feel bad for Westphaul. In one week, the situation went from being as high as the sky when we beat the lakers to total hell when our losing streak started and this incident came up. He must feel like the sky is falling. i think its a shame that it had to come to this because i felt like the team was finally pulling together at the end of last season under westphaul. Also, from what ive read during his time here he seems like he really wants things to work out. regardless, i think the time has come for him to nut up or shut up. Show improvement in the coaching and the relationship with players/cousins or im completely fine with a new coach.

 

[PurpleHaze]

I prefer to wait, say until new arena deadline of March 1 or trade deadline of March 15 or just letting Westphal go after the season with his contract expiring. Just promoting Keith Smart right now on a whim could be like promoting Kenny Natt and we know what an utter debacle that was. Besides FO gives every indication no head coaching change is on horizon as some miraculous solution to whatever the seriously ill but not seen as critically ill patient is experiencing. Kings record is 2-3 not 0-5. Let's at least play a few more games or so to see where we are record wise, how competitive, etc.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

I feel bad for Westphaul. In one week, the situation went from being as high as the sky when we beat the lakers to total hell when our losing streak started and this incident came up. He must feel like the sky is falling. i think its a shame that it had to come to this because i felt like the team was finally pulling together at the end of last season under westphaul. Also, from what ive read during his time here he seems like he really wants things to work out. regardless, i think the time has come for him to nut up or shut up. Show improvement in the coaching and the relationship with players/cousins or im completely fine with a new coach.

I kind of feel bad for him too because on one level he seems like a sincere guy and i truly believe that he wants this team to succeed. That doesn't erase his numerous problems with players and the lack of offensive structure, though. i had my reservations about his coaching abilities last year but gave him the benefit of doubt. The way this year is starting though, it's not easy to give him the benefit of doubt any longer. The team still isn't showing any signs of genuine improvement, even the nice guy, Tyreke, has dropped hints about Westphal's offensive scheme being garbage, and now this debacle with Cousins. At some point you have to say enough is enough. To use Westphal's own words, " it cannot be ignored indefinitely ".

 

[ParniValjak]

Fire now because really, if we are genuine about going places, Westphal is not the coach that will get us there. Ultimately the next coach needs to be that guy. So what is the point in waiting. They might be trying to tread water until the March 1 deadline or something like that provided that we are hovering around .500 but if it's broke, fix it as soon as possible.

Like I keep saying, Westphal should have been fired at the end of last season and we should have "re-hired" Adelman as IMHO, outside of Phil Jackson, he would have been a perfect fit for this young team. Just look at Minnesota and how much more fun they are to watch this season. They finally appear to have a future and a lot of that has to do with their new coach.

 

[Bricklayer]

Just as a note, we can't keep on having thread after thread about this. I am going to start merging them all, but this can be the one poll.

 

[Glenn]

I feel bad for us. We have been subjected to Westphal's inabilty to coach for two years. We don't have to wait to see if he will get better. I think this is a crisis point and the sooner he is gone, the better. If it appears that Cuz got him fired (you've got to be kidding me) so be it. Westphal got himself fired. The Maloofs need to take decisive action for the fans' sake. I have very little interest in watching this freak show unfold just to see what happens. Some things just can't be any simpler to figure out. They can't even use the excuse that they need to save money for whatever reason they need to save money: they have a head coach sitting next to PW already on the payroll.

I feel an urgency because we may lose Cousins. Not by trade but mentally. He may just check out or do something more Artest like. He could screw up his career with this petty BS of the way he is being treated. When you beat an angry child, they get more angry and dealing out punishment seems to be all that is being attempted. I must grant you I have no idea if they have treated him positively but I DO note that his high school coach, the guy put on the Kings' staff undoubtedly to help Cuz keep his head together, did not come back this year. I'd love to know why. Was he fired or was it it he couldn't stand being here? I sure doubt if it was a squabble over money as I suspect he made more here than as a high school coach.

If they aren't going to fire PW, suspend Cuz and let the player's association get involved so that the Cuz/agent vs PW personal battle gets set aside and it becomes an association vs Kings organization negotiation. I don't know how this all really works so forgive me if i am wrong.

 

[Boogie-havoc]

Only way I don't wanna choose the "Fire PW NOW" option, is cause I don't want us to let Demarcus feel like he "won" by acting like he does - nothing to do with what Paul can proove, cause he already prooved to be a total failure is so many ways, and I honestly do not see any chance for sucsess with him at helm.

We should have went for Rick when we had the chance.

 

[swisshh]

Could you add a "fire him after roadtrip/in 2 weeks" option?

 

[Warhawk]

Could you add a "fire him after roadtrip/in 2 weeks" option?

I agree with Boogie and this. I voted middle of the season. Can't let DMC think he was the reason. He needs to grow up.

I do think that with several players being out during the VERY short camp and with all the new players we will need some time to be cohesive, and that means game time. We ARE 2-3 against some pretty stiff opposition, but played terribly in several of those games. I also think that the offense issue is a big black mark on him for now. And last year's mismanagement was just awful.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I agree with Boogie and this. I voted middle of the season. Can't let DMC think he was the reason. He needs to grow up.

I'm not sure that firing Westphal in two weeks would keep DMC from getting the impression he was the reason. We'd have to really, really stink it up for the front office to even make the plausible claim that it wasn't about DMC, and you know the media would eat that up.

If you're going to get rid of Westphal without Cousins gaining a moral victory, you probably have to ride it out to the end of the season when his contract is up, and then have a wide coaching search and select a top-notch candidate over Westphal. Otherwise I don't see how can not think it was his doing, even if it wasn't.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

lol at the one person that wants to resign westphal! made my day

 

[kupman]

In the spirit of merging threads here are my minority thoughts:

http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?43403-I-m-chillin

Basically, I am not ready to see the guy canned 5 games into a half-baked season, especially in light of the coaching turnover of late.

 

[VF21]

I voted to keep him. I think people are, as usual, grabbing the pitchforks and torches way too early. I recall very vividly the hue and cry for Adelman's head...right up until the day he left. Right now, unless you can get Phil Jackson to agree to come to Sacramento, we're much better off just sticking with what we have at least for now and giving things a bit of time.

I know a lot won't agree, and that's fine. I'm just not in a hurry to pull the trigger after what would be, in normal seasons, a couple of pre-season games.

EDIT: In other words, what kupman posted while I was typing my reply.

 

[gunks]

lol at the one person that wants to resign westphal! made my day

You didnt know Westphal's mom is a member of this forum?

 

[AL/kfan]

I prefer to wait, say until new arena deadline of March 1 or trade deadline of March 15 or just letting Westphal go after the season with his contract expiring. Just promoting Keith Smart right now on a whim could be like promoting Kenny Natt and we know what an utter debacle that was. Besides FO gives every indication no head coaching change is on horizon as some miraculous solution to whatever the seriously ill but not seen as critically ill patient is experiencing. Kings record is 2-3 not 0-5. Let's at least play a few more games or so to see where we are record wise, how competitive, etc.

In my book your post sets a priority of all the issues at hand. The new arena funding deadline set by the Maloof family is only nine or 10 weeks away. Yes, Gavin and Joe have both said that the deadline date is flexible. But, is it? Firing Westphal or keeping or trading DeMarcus will not matter if the team moves.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

keep him at all costs! wonder if he would be willing to extend his contract at 5 million per year over a 3 year period.

 

[Rookie]

I voted to keep him. I think people are, as usual, grabbing the pitchforks and torches way too early. I recall very vividly the hue and cry for Adelman's head...right up until the day he left. Right now, unless you can get Phil Jackson to agree to come to Sacramento, we're much better off just sticking with what we have at least for now and giving things a bit of time.

I know a lot won't agree, and that's fine. I'm just not in a hurry to pull the trigger after what would be, in normal seasons, a couple of pre-season games.

EDIT: In other words, what kupman posted while I was typing my reply.

come on VF21...how can you put RA in the same sentence as WP?

 

[Capt. Factorial]

come on VF21...how can you put RA in the same sentence as WP?

It's just a reminder of the mob mentality in web forums like these. You get a large enough critical mass of angry people on one issue (regardless of how strong their argument really is) and absent strong opposition opinion swings very hard in one direction. It's getting to the point where you might be able to gather enough Angry Anti-Westphals on here to lead a literal torch-and-pitchfork march to PW's house.

Well, the same (or nearly the same) level of rhetoric was aimed at Rick Adelman in his final days. Looking back, it was clearly a mistake. The question isn't whether Adelman or Westphal is the better coach. The question is whether the level of vitriol has superceded the appropriate level. My take? It has. By a lot.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Rick Adelman would never have lasted through the 3 seasons that followed his departure. I think the way his dismissal was handled was an absolute disgrace but I have no problem with the decision to let him go. I think ultimately it all worked to his benefit the way it went down.

 

[rainmaker]

Cousins has a lot of growing up still to do. But a few things are clear imo. The relationship with he and our coach is going south. I don't see it getting better. Let this last too much longer, I'd think Cousins and his agent will remember all of it when we put our contract extension on the table two years from now.

Also, while Cousins has blown up in the past, he also come out every single time looking extremely sorry for his actions, and apologized. That did not happen this time. Nothing close to an apology. In fact, to this minute, it appears both he and his agent strongly refute Westy's side of things. Immaturity is a common theme with Cousins. Lying however, is not.

Some think Westy is doing the right thing, and handling this the right way. Really isn't middle ground to be had. Either our head coach is handling it correctly, or he is not, and therefor should be let go. Can't have our had coach handling this partly correctly, and act as if that is an ok standard for a pro franchise. Either Westy knows 100% how to handle Cousins and this situation correctly, or he's the wrong man for the job. I don't think he has handled this correctly at all.

I ask myself why Cousins high school and college coach knew how to deal with Cousins personality more effectively. I ask why Westy has had issues like this in every NBA stop he's been a head coach. I ask why players have come out publicly and questioned his system. Then I ask, why don't other well respected coaches around the league have situations like this pop up?

I get the strong impression Westy lied, and if not, and it wasn't a flat out lie, he stretched the truth publicly on multiple occasions. Even if disciplining Cousins was thr right move, if he was anything less than 100% truthful with the media, and I don't think he was, then we're making excuses for a coach who has been around the league for two decades, and basically saying him not being truthful isn't as big of a problem as DeMarcus's immaturity, and therefor it's ok.

That is a toxic situation which will not improve.If the FO sides with a coach who wasn't truthful with the media while throwing Cousins under the bus, the chances sky rocket that Cousins does not sign an extension here. At that point it isn't about who's the coach, but that our FO sided with a liar over a franchise cornerstone.

Are there other coaches that would have prevented a scenario like this? I think so. Are there other coaches who can get through to Cousins more effectively? I think so. Have these problems occurred more than once before in Westy's previous stops? Yes they have. Is Cousins the only immature kid to come into the league? No he isn't, and other coaches have prevented this kind of a scene from happening. In his time here, which youngster on our team can someone point to and say Westy has had a great, or even solid effect on? Can't think of one.

So yes, as I said, Cousins has a lot of growing to do. But I also think, we have an atmosphere here which lends itself to blowups like this. Yes Cousins has to grow, but is this the type of environment where an immature young adult will grow? No. I can't think of a single player we drafted aside from Peja, who excelled and played here during their prime. I'd go as afar as saying this goes beyond coaching, and that our organization as a whole is horrible at fostering and developing young talent.

If anyone would like to refute that, and give me any examples besides Peja of a player we drafted and excelled into his prime with us, I'm all ears.

 

[Arkitect]

Kevin Martin. And the list of NBA players that required a trade to mature/grow is too long to practically list.

 

[rainmaker]

Kevin Martin

Kev never here, and still hasn't, developed in defense, rebounding, ball handling, passing, creating, or leadership. He scored a lot of empty points for a team lacking other offensive threats. He might just be the least respected 20+ ppg scorer in the league,and that is coming from someone who used to own a Kev jersey, and thought he was our best player for a stretch.

Kind of proves my point.

 

[Glenn]

^^^^

I also think the problem goes even higher in the power structure but there is not much that can be done about that. It makes me pessimistic.

To the fans in general: was C-Webb less a problem? Check back into his early years and get back to me.

 

[Arkitect]

We were at the bottom of the draft most of the time since Peja. If you don't have talent to begin with, it is pretty hard to develop it. And I would argue that developing a 26th pick into a 20 ppg scorer, regardless of the quality of the player otherwise, is not something that happens every day. In fact the list of "immature" players that excelled with us is actually quite lengthy, though I think most of that has to do with Rick Adelman being our coach.

 

[pshn80]

I voted to keep him. I think people are, as usual, grabbing the pitchforks and torches way too early. I recall very vividly the hue and cry for Adelman's head...right up until the day he left. Right now, unless you can get Phil Jackson to agree to come to Sacramento, we're much better off just sticking with what we have at least for now and giving things a bit of time.

I know a lot won't agree, and that's fine. I'm just not in a hurry to pull the trigger after what would be, in normal seasons, a couple of pre-season games.

EDIT: In other words, what kupman posted while I was typing my reply.

This is my view also. I was one of the three above. We have bigger fish to fry than Westphal. Let's watch and see if the season improves as we go along. Go Kings, let's make it two in a row tonight.

 

[fansinceday1]

When PW decided to go to the media, he completely lost me. KEEP IT IN HOUSE!! Thats the mantra no matter the sport. He showed how hotheaded he is by going to the media because before he did that, this problem was nowhere to be found in the media. Now EVERYONE is talking about the dysfunctional kings. Not only are all our problems out but IF we were EVER considering trading Cousins, Westy has effectively killed his trade value. No matter how hotheaded or immature he is, he is a major part of this core. He needs to be handled correctly and Westy isn't up to it. HE NEEDS TO GO!!!!

 

[Spike]

If he goes there will be trouble. If he stays it will be double.

 

[keflanag]

I have a question for those who want to fire Westphal now. If you felt that way before the season ever started, fine, there is nothing that will change your mind. But, if it is based on the first 5 games, what exactly were your expectations? Realistically what did you expect the Kings record to be? With the teams they have played, 5-0 is just absurd, and 4-1 is even pushing it a bit. So, if you are an optimist and thought ... "Hey, with the right guidance, this team should be 3-2", then 2-3 means fire the coach? I haven't liked the way the team has looked at times either, but seriously ... it has been just over a week, with a limited training camp. Tempers flair when things go bad ... everybody seems happy when it is working. Just give them a couple weeks. If the team still seems in a funk and the offense still looks lost ... then you start looking at whether the coach has lost the players.