season grades

[VF21]

No, I'm sorry but I think the C is entirely appropriate. For whatever reason - be it a myriad of minor injuries, dissatisfaction with the way things were going, the absence of Vlade, etc - Peja was NOT the player we want, need and expect him to be.

Yes, there were flashes towards the end of the season but that doesn't make up for the rest of the year. Peja was MIA for a very large part of the year and I think the overall grade of C meaning adequate but not above average or superior is pretty fair.

 

[LjuboDaMan]

20 points per game is not above average ?

when peja had 25 per game or so ... what grade was that ?

anyhow ... i would give mike A- and Peja B-

 

[VF21]

Ljubo -

If C means average or adequate, and B means above average or above expectations, then Bibby, House, Miller, Evans and Thomas all had better years than Peja.

The expectations were, for the most part, that this would be Peja's year to shine. It wasn't. It's to his credit that he seemed to pull himself up towards the end of the year or that C might well have been a D.

 

[VF21]

20 points per game is not above average ?

when peja had 25 per game or so ... what grade was that ?

anyhow ... i would give mike A- and Peja B-

We will agree to disagree.

Have a nice evening.

 

[LjuboDaMan]

yah we agree on that ... u too .. have a good 1

those grades are based on those expectations ... now that's a diff story

A Teacher cant give a student a C- if he really deserved a B- just because he expected him to have an A

peaceeeeeeeee ...

 

[sloter]

VF21, you're not bashing Pedja , but you're not letting go of him either.

Apparently, Maloofs and Petrie thought that "Pedja at C" was better than "Webber at B", and I fully agreed with them. Anyhow, Pedja did have a subpar year, even though he was almost never outplayed by his counterpart, unlike CWebb. Just that fact itself should get Pedja more than a C for the season.
His rebounding was pathetic though... but then, so is everyone else's on this team.
By the way, don't forget that Pedja was also the best Kings player in the playoffs this year. As Ljubo said, just because it seems like he could do more, (I'm not sure he actually can, considering how steady his numbers are) it doesn't mean that we should give him the lowest marks of all the players...

 

[Vlad]

Chris Webber - C minus - injuries have clearly robbed him of his previously unmatched combination of athleticism/agility/size. at the same time, his head had become more securely screwed on than it ever had been before in his career. Then he was traded and the philly boo-birds drove his head straight up his a**. King's management gave up on a future tied to Webber, and bailed on this season to avoid that fate. (You know, this year Duncan limps into the playoffs, the field looks the weakest it has been in 20 years, but the kings folded before the bidding actually began. Who knows.)

gimme a break. I like when people say "we gave up on the season" by trading webber. Like he would have helped us beat the Spurs, Suns, Heat, Pistons, or Mavs. I don't think things would have been much different at all with or without webber, which is what GP and the maloofs thought too.

I like Webb and feel for him, but the guys in charge made a good decision.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Perhaps ... I guess it also means that Pedja at C is better than Webber at B+... go figure.

Not if Stojakovic is still supposed to be the "star" that some if his fans claim, it doesn't.

In fact, that doesn't really make sense on any level: I don't know how they assign grades at U of I these days, but when my friends were going there back in the mid-90s, but B's are always better than C's. Webber is a "star" player. If Stojakovic is a "star" as well, then they' graded on the same scale, in which case, B+ > C. If Stojakovic is not a "star," then he's graded on a curve, in which case, B+ is still > C.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

... Apparently, Maloofs and Petrie thought that "Pedja at C" was better than "Webber at B..."

Unproven; I'd wait until next season starts before making that statement. Just because he hasn't been traded yet doesn't mean that he won't be...

... By the way, don't forget that Pedja was also the best Kings player in the playoffs this year.

And we lost in the first round for the first time in five years. Perhaps that's not a coincidence...

 

[GoGoGadget]

gimme a break. I like when people say "we gave up on the season" by trading webber. Like he would have helped us beat the Spurs, Suns, Heat, Pistons, or Mavs. I don't think things would have been much different at all with or without webber, which is what GP and the maloofs thought too.

I like Webb and feel for him, but the guys in charge made a good decision.

I don't think that anyone is suggesting that keeping Chris Webber would have guaranteed the Kings a ring or that, conversely, taking him off of the roster is what took it away.

However, the massive roster changes that were a result of the Webber trade (and the Christie trade, to a lesser exent) certainly made that goal out of the team's reach. The many new faces and the lack of practice time are the reasons the Kings finished the season so inconsistantly. Games 1, 2 and 4 were lost, in my opinion, largely due to a lack of familiarity. The offense was disjointed. There was no trust. There were several obvious communication breakdowns.

Trading away Chris Webber, in and of itself, was not giving up on the team. Completely blowing apart your team throughout the course of the season, however, is a pretty clear indication that the Kings organization decided to start working towards next year.

 

[AleksandarN]

I have no problem with Pedja's grade based on expectations but I also expected more from Bibby this year aswell and in the playoffs. I would give Bibby a C+ or B-

 

[sloter]

Unproven; I'd wait until next season starts before making that statement. Just because he hasn't been traded yet doesn't mean that he won't be...

But the reluctance of the management certainly says something. Usually when the players want out, they get shipped wherever for whoever.
Not our best player.

 

[VF21]

Reluctance of management certainly does say something. It says they're in control of the team, NOT the player who went to the media and demanded a trade.

The fact they didn't give him what he wanted speaks volumes. It says "You're under contract to us and you'll honor that contract."

As far as Peja being the best player on the Kings this last season, nope. No way.

 

[sloter]

He was in the playoffs , where it mattered more!

 

[VF21]

Dream on, sloter. He showed up for a couple of games and didn't stink up the place. Big difference between that and carrying the team into the second round.

This is all really getting to be amusing. You were always among the first to crucify a certain former King, regardless of how well he did, with some negative comment. Now that the shoe's on the other foot, it's actually interesting to see how you can post the same arguments you used to violently disagree with...

Feel free to continue.

 

[sloter]

Well, it wouldn't have been such a big difference had anyone else decided to shoot over 35% and play some defense. Since Pedja was the only one , it made it a bit harder.

I don't understand which part you disagree with ? That he was the Kings best player this postseason or that he is the Kings best player (which his # of all star appearances and his PPG average and defense will show).

I do agree that perhaps Bibby was the Kings best player this year, until he messed it all up in the playoffs - but look, that's exactly what happened to Pedja in the years past and everyone was giving him **** for that. How many call Bibby a wuss for playing like doo doo the whole Sonics series ?

There is a reason the management didn't trade Pedja, and it's certainly not because they wanted to show him who the boss is. If you really actually meant it when you said that, then this discussion will be shortened on my part.

 

[VF21]

Managements trade players:

1. When it is in the best interests of the team to do so.
2. When the player is too expensive for what he's giving.
3. When they're offered something better suited in return.

To say the fact they didn't trade him means nothing more than they didn't get an offer they couldn't refuse.

Peja has been a real bargain because he is better than his contract would indicate. So why exactly would the Kings trade him away? Especially just to honor his demand?

The Maloofs and Petrie are running a business. Just like any employer, they're going to do what's best for the business REGARDLESS of what ONE employee thinks about it. They didn't trade Peja despite his demands because they didn't have to. Sure, there are other considerations but you're reading something into it that isn't necessarily the primary reason for them not moving him.

Peja Stojakovic is NOT the Kings best overall player if you're basing it on all-star appearances by any stretch of the imagination. All-star appearances are popularity contests. Players have been selected while spending a year on the IL. That doesn't make them good; it just makes them popular.

I'm not going to bother arguing with you about this any longer because it's just not interesting to me any more. Have a nice day.

 

[vj9999]

Peja Stojakovic is NOT the Kings best overall player if you're basing it on all-star appearances by any stretch of the imagination. All-star appearances are popularity contests. Players have been selected while spending a year on the IL. That doesn't make them good; it just makes them popular.

I agree with most you have to say, but this here implies that Peja made his all star appearances based on his popularity. I think that every time he was selected it was because of his performances in that year.

 

[sloter]

Getting to the starting lineup of the all-star game is a popularity contest.
Being selected by the coaches is not.

 

[Team Dime]

VF21, you're not bashing Pedja , but you're not letting go of him either.

Apparently, Maloofs and Petrie thought that "Pedja at C" was better than "Webber at B", and I fully agreed with them. Anyhow, Pedja did have a subpar year, even though he was almost never outplayed by his counterpart, unlike CWebb. Just that fact itself should get Pedja more than a C for the season.
His rebounding was pathetic though... but then, so is everyone else's on this team.
By the way, don't forget that Pedja was also the best Kings player in the playoffs this year. As Ljubo said, just because it seems like he could do more, (I'm not sure he actually can, considering how steady his numbers are) it doesn't mean that we should give him the lowest marks of all the players...

This sounds like a Webber vs. Peja thing, but I don't think that's why Petrie made the trade. Webber's knee and his contract, IMO, were the main reasons for the trade. Peja, is extremely talented and still young, the Kings need him to develop into a more well-rounded player to depend on him.


I don't know how playing well for the first 3 quarters, then disappearing in the 4th qualifies you as the best Kings player for the playoffs. I'll give Peja credit for actually wanting the ball in the 4th quarter of game 5, unlike seemingly running away from it during the 4th quarter of game 1. Bibby, was very inconsistent too, the mere fact that we're arguing a Peja's sterling "1st 3 quarters/no show 4th quarter acts" being the best performance overall as a King for the playoffs is a good reason for why the Kings are fishing right now.

 

[Vlad]

Peja Stojakovic is NOT the Kings best overall player if you're basing it on all-star appearances by any stretch of the imagination. All-star appearances are popularity contests. Players have been selected while spending a year on the IL. That doesn't make them good; it just makes them popular.

?

Aren't Brad and Peja the only former all-stars on the Kings now? Peja's gone 3 times, and Brad 2, and neither started. Both were picked by coaches, so this doesn't "just make them popular." I think it indicates how much pro basketball coaches value(d) their skills.

 

[Bricklayer]

?

Aren't Brad and Peja the only former all-stars on the Kings now? Peja's gone 3 times, and Brad 2, and neither started. Both were picked by coaches, so this doesn't "just make them popular." I think it indicates how much pro basketball coaches value(d) their skills.

Peja and Brad are both borderline All-Stars. They aren't automatic picks. Just guys perpetually on the bubble. Some guys are so good they are near automatic picks no matter how their team is doing an whether its an up or down year for them. Peja and Brad are just shrugs. Good enough to make it, but no better really than Corey Maggette and Jamaal Magliore, just on a better team. Peja's only had one year where there was no question, Brad never has -- for him its just the lack of great centers. They are All-Stars, but not remotely in the class of the true perennial guys such as Duncan, Garnett, Kobe, soon to be LeBron, Wade etc. etc.

20pts 4rebs are entirely disposable numbers. Probably 50 guys in the league who can match that given minutes and shots. totally irrelevant and ignored on a bad team. But playing for Sacto has put a rosy sheen on it.

 

[burekijogurt]

Peja and Brad are both borderline All-Stars. They aren't automatic picks. Just guys perpetually on the bubble. Some guys are so good they are near automatic picks no matter how their team is doing an whether its an up or down year for them. Peja and Brad are just shrugs. Good enough to make it, but no better really than Corey Maggette and Jamaal Magliore, just on a better team. Peja's only had one year where there was no question, Brad never has -- for him its just the lack of great centers. They are All-Stars, but not remotely in the class of the true perennial guys such as Duncan, Garnett, Kobe, soon to be LeBron, Wade etc. etc.

20pts 4rebs are entirely disposable numbers. Probably 50 guys in the league who can match that given minutes and shots. totally irrelevant and ignored on a bad team. But playing for Sacto has put a rosy sheen on it.

We should get Garnett or Kobe, and surround them with 4 of those 20 pt guys that are so easy to find. Championship guaranteed.

 

[Vlad]

Peja and Brad are both borderline All-Stars. They are All-Stars, but not remotely in the class of the true perennial guys such as Duncan, Garnett, Kobe, soon to be LeBron, Wade etc. etc.

The guys you mention are superstars, a word which neither describes Peja nor Brad. I was simply trying to make the point that Peja and Brad made the all-star teams of the past because of their ability, not popularity. Coaches thought that they were 2 of the top 24 basketball players in the league at different points in time. It was in response to VF's remark that being an all-star is just a gauge of popularity.

 

[Bibby_Is_Clutch]

Matt Barnes - solid A - he exceded expectations during his stay here, no question

Mike Bibby - solid C - Other than his one stretch of superman play (right after the webber trade), I thought this was a disapointing season for Bibby (since I expected more from him), especially down the stretch. Not bad, clearly the cream of the team, but he didn't dazzle.

Doug Christie - C minus - Doug was clearly in decline when we traded him. He was my favorite player, but it was time to say goodbye.

Erik Daniels - inc - Who the hell knows?

Mo Evans - B plus/A minus - he turned into a solid (if sometimes erratic) contributor to this team, his athleticism was JUST what was needed, and he exceded expectations.

Eddie House - B - I was expecting nothing from this guy, I hated his game before he came to the kings, and during his early nenure here, and then suddenly he bacame solid. who'd've thunk it?

Bobby Jackson - inc/ D - you want to give injured players the benefit of the doubt, but persistant being injured becomes a huge problem. He got an inc last season, and it turns into a failure when it happens again.

Kevin Martin - inc/C minus - I expected more from him. Some of it is adleman's avertion to rooks, but he also rarely showed me much when he was in the game (a few exceptions)

Brad Miller - C minus/D plus - see Bobby Jackson's grade. I hate to be harsh, and I love the guy, but when you limp into the postseason EVERY year, you begin to approach worthlessness. Has he EVER been healthy at the end of a season? For any team? (serious question.. I don't know)

Cutino Mobley - C minus - In the end he was exactly what I was afraid he was when the king's traded for him-- fools gold. He has talent, and can be clutch -- so he tantalizes you. But in the end he is too damn erratic and unmoldable. <sigh>

Greg Ostertag - inc - no way to grade him other than incomplete. He came in to camp out of shape, got into coach's doghouse, and never left. When he WAS in the game he was just what I expected: inconsistant, but sometimes a difference maker (same as he was with the Jazz). THe kings NEEDED to play him more.

Brian Skinner - C plus - another fools gold. He appeared and played out of this world (and out of his league) for a month, shooting expectations through the roof. But then, when it mattered, he was the exact non-factor we thought he was going to be when he was a throw-in from the Webber trade. <sigh>

Darius Songaila - B pls/A minus - Darius gives you more than you have a right to expect from him. A solid solid back up/roleplayer, unassuming and just does the tasks he is assigned. Every team NEEDS a few players like him to be good.

Peja Stojakovic - C - Can we say fools gold again? <sigh> Actually, let me start over here: Its time we all think of Peja what he really is, the penultimate role player. He is a GREAT role player, the best in the league. He is a solid defender, and when he is well fed, can put up huge numbers on offense. Fit him in with the right players and he is DEADLY. THe perfect support. (can you imagine him on the Suns this year? DEADLY!) Just don't count on him to be "the man". That is just not him. So he is either a (D plus) as "the man" or a (solid A) "super role player". Take your pick. I think he is super role player.

Kenny Thomas


Chris Webber - C minus - injuries have clearly robbed him of his previously unmatched combination of athleticism/agility/size. at the same time, his head had become more securely screwed on than it ever had been before in his career. Then he was traded and the philly boo-birds drove his head straight up his a**. King's management gave up on a future tied to Webber, and bailed on this season to avoid that fate. (You know, this year Duncan limps into the playoffs, the field looks the weakest it has been in 20 years, but the kings folded before the bidding actually began. Who knows.)


Corlis Williamson

Peja was "the man" last year when Webber was gone and has been "the man" while webbers been gone this season. I think he is still the man if he can have have a full season like 03-04.

 

[Team Dime]

Peja was "the man" last year when Webber was gone and has been "the man" while webbers been gone this season. I think he is still the man if he can have have a full season like 03-04.

Peja's best season was 03-04 where he was in the MVP voting. However, he disappeared for the playoffs. This past season was his worst as a pro, I don't think that qualifies him as being "the man".

If anyone was "the man" this season for the Kings it was Bibby, who had one of his better statistical seasons. As Brick mentioned, he exploded to near star status in March and then had to take over the leadership of the team after all the trades. He was the one taking big shots game after game. Bibby is the team's best player right now, hands down.