OK, OK experiment time is over!

CruzDude

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
#1
#1
After a scull session with eminent Kings Guru bajaden, its now time to cut to the chase and field a starting lineup that should stsrt winning against all comers:
5 Cousins. where he should be
4. Willy. ditto
3. Gay. ditto
2. Temple. best defender and decent shooter
1. Collison

6/7/8. Barnes, Farmar, Tolliver, Afflalo, McLemore
Koufos, Willy for Cousins depending
Casspi for Willy
 
Larry89

Larry89

Disgruntled Kings Fan
#3
#3
Willie next to Cousins is a disaster, he is lost on defense periodically, has no jumpshot and provides very little toughness or defense rebounding . He also has poor hands.
 
ockingsfan

ockingsfan

Starter
#4
#4
I like this line up.

Ben should stay coming off the bench and provide scoring on the second unit. Temple can be that shut down defender that every team needs on the wing.

I've wanted Willie to grow into a starting Power Forward, but he needs to stay inside and protect the rim and rebound, no more of the roaming around like a chicken with his head cut off.

Collison needs to start and now!
 
twslam07

twslam07

Starter
#7
#7
PG - Temple (18 min) / Collison (30 min)
SG - Afflalo (22 min) / McLemore (20 min) / Temple (6 min)
SF - Gay (34 min) / Barnes (10 min) / Afflalo (4 min)
PF - Tolliver (18 min) / Cauley-Stein (18 min) / Barnes (12 min)
C - Cousins (34 min) / Koufos (14 min)

Cousins - 34 min
Gay - 34 min
Collison - 30 min
Afflalo - 26 min
Temple - 24 min
Barnes - 22 min
McLemore - 20 min
Tolliver - 18 min
Cauley-Stein - 18 min
Koufos - 14 min
 
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K

kingdivac

All-Star
#8
#8
Team is not working offensively any way you slice it. They need scoring from 1/ 2 position consistently by at least 14+ pts each, especially 2. Neither Affalo nor Temple are consistent enough scorers. The team will seldom win without balanced scoring. Had hoped Lawson might fill some scoring, but nope.
Not sure this team is better than last years even....
 
S

SCKingsfan

Bench
#9
#9
kingdivac said:
Team is not working offensively any way you slice it. They need scoring from 1/ 2 position consistently by at least 14+ pts each, especially 2. Neither Affalo nor Temple are consistent enough scorers. The team will seldom win without balanced scoring. Had hoped Lawson might fill some scoring, but nope.
Not sure this team is better than last years even....
Click to expand...
Wait, sorry, so when lack of scoring become our primary problem?
 
P

pshn80

Starter
#11
#11
Joerger is doing a good job of choosing who plays and thereby is learning a lot about everybody and everything. On the players future use I trust he and his staff's judgement completely. On the changes in use that you suggest for Koufos, Afflalo, Lawson, Temple, Collison, Cauley-stein, I leave that to Joerger. As you point out it is time to get serious and I think we are seeing that. We certainly have some tough opponents coming at us right now. Test by fire. On defensive and offensive schemes, again the coaching staff is undoubtedly learning how well the schemes and their player execution is working and where it needs to be improved by changes in the schemes and changes in personnel and rotations. I see us getting better slowly but surely. As a fan I get to watch real pros at wrk.
 
k_dubb90

k_dubb90

Bench
#12
#12
Larry89 said:
Willie next to Cousins is a disaster, he is lost on defense periodically, has no jumpshot and provides very little toughness or defense rebounding . He also has poor hands.
Click to expand...
Willie plays his best basketball next to cousins. It can be due to the fact he doesn't have to be the main guy to battle the boards and protect the paint. His best role right now is frontcourt sidekick
 
K

kingdivac

All-Star
#13
#13
k_dubb90 said:
Willie plays his best basketball next to cousins. It can be due to the fact he doesn't have to be the main guy to battle the boards and protect the paint. His best role right now is frontcourt sidekick
Click to expand...
Agree, get Cauley Stein more minutes! Or at least try a 5-game stretch with it.
 
lawlman91

lawlman91

Starter
#15
#15
twslam07 said:
PG - Temple (18 min) / Collison (30 min)
SG - Afflalo (22 min) / McLemore (20 min) / Temple (6 min)
SF - Gay (34 min) / Barnes (10 min) / Afflalo (4 min)
PF - Tolliver (18 min) / Cauley-Stein (18 min) / Barnes (12 min)
C - Cousins (34 min) / Koufos (14 min)

Cousins - 34 min
Gay - 34 min
Collison - 30 min
Afflalo - 26 min
Temple - 24 min
Barnes - 22 min
McLemore - 20 min
Tolliver - 18 min
Cauley-Stein - 18 min
Koufos - 14 min
Click to expand...
I would put Cousins and Koufos in at the same time depending on the matchup. We have been really good on the boards when those two are in.
 
twslam07

twslam07

Starter
#16
#16
lawlman91 said:
I would put Cousins and Koufos in at the same time depending on the matchup. We have been really good on the boards when those two are in.
Click to expand...
Kings Total Rebounds Per 100 Possessions with Cousins & Koufos on the floor = 47.7 rebounds
Kings Total Rebounds Per 100 Possessions with Cousins on the floor & Koufos off the floor = 38.9 rebounds

Kings Net Points Per 100 Possessions with Cousins & Koufos on the floor = -6.0 points
Kings Net Points Per 100 Possessions with Cousins on the floor & Koufos off the floor = +5.1 points

Better rebounding doesn't necessarily equate to a winning lineup. We really should be avoiding two C lineups at all costs. If it weren't for Cauley-Stein being a future piece we need to develop, I'd probably be cutting him out of the rotation and giving his 18 minutes to Casspi as another stretch 4. Even last year we lost when we had Koufos or Cauley-Stein playing along side next to Cousins (-2.8 w/ Cousins & Koufos and -2.5 w/ Cousins & Cauley-Stein). This year, it's no different.

We were actually a winning team last year when Cousins had ANY PF or SF playing at the 4 next to him. Acy, Moreland, Gay, Casspi....it didn't matter which one. We beat the other team on the floor when there was a better fitting piece next to Cousins (notice how I didn't say more talented).

Quit with the double C lineups and play what actually keeps us competitive. It's pretty darn simple. Make it happen, Joerger.

EDIT: Coming back to my starting Tolliver point, we were +0.9 points per 100 possessions last year with a Cousins/Acy pairing with a 466 min sample size. Tolliver is a hard worker (like Acy), a more established 3pt threat, is longer than Acy, & is a better defender than Acy. He doesn't have to play a lot of minutes, but at least give Cousins a good complement to start the game and someone mobile enough, long enough, & big enough to guard PFs adequately (while also being able to give him space on offense).
 
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kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#17
#17
k_dubb90 said:
Willie plays his best basketball next to cousins. It can be due to the fact he doesn't have to be the main guy to battle the boards and protect the paint. His best role right now is frontcourt sidekick
Click to expand...
I'm all in for starting Trill next to Cousins, you used a top 10 pick on the guy, let him get some significant burn and let him learn while making all those boneheaded plays and hope to the basketball gods that he gets his act together sooner rather than later.
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#18
#18
The good thing about the roster is that they have some flexible pieces where we can go smaller at the 4 and become a bit more athletic. I like Koufos but I don't like him in the lineup with Cuz. I think if Joerger wants to be big there, he should have Cuz and WCS together instead.
 
E

ESP47

All-Star
#20
#20
We just gave up 40 points in the 1st quarter. I don't care what the offense is like, just stop the other team from scoring. I swear it feels like this team goes down by 10 at the start of every game. Kofous needs to be yanked from the starting spot and given the backup C spot where he is actually an asset and not a liability. I wish WCS would stop playing like a princess so until then, we need to start Barnes at PF until a better option becomes available.
 
Big Cuz 15

Big Cuz 15

All-Star
#22
#22
HighFlyingMonkey said:
WCS has looked awful so far and you want to give him a starting spot?

He can't shoot, he can't defend without fouling, he can't rebound, he doesn't know the plays half the time. There's still time for him to turn it around but for a 23 year old "NBA-Ready" prospect he doesn't look ready to contribute.
Click to expand...
they might've overwhelmed him this offseason telling him to do all kinds of stuff. when the spurs took kawhi in they had him specifically work on the 3 point shot then slowly added things to his plate. okc had a defined role for adams when he came in( defend, block shots). they slowly added more responsibility when he showed he could handle what was given to him. i know our org's strength isn't developing talent but what are we doing with WCS? he looks confused out there when hes playing.
 
beb0p

beb0p

Starter
#23
#23
Big Cuz 15 said:
they might've overwhelmed him this offseason telling him to do all kinds of stuff. when the spurs took kawhi in they had him specifically work on the 3 point shot then slowly added things to his plate. okc had a defined role for adams when he came in( defend, block shots). they slowly added more responsibility when he showed he could handle what was given to him. i know our org's strength isn't developing talent but what are we doing with WCS? he looks confused out there when hes playing.
Click to expand...
This is pretty much the same WCS I saw in college. The same guy who scored 6 points and grabbed 4 rebounds in 33 minutes in Kentucky's regional final in his last college season against a 6'-5" forward.

He will occasionally break out and flash his potential, but he also will sometimes revert back to his shell. That's classic WCS. Not saying he won't become better or more consistent but what we saw this season is not an anomaly.

.
 
Larry89

Larry89

Disgruntled Kings Fan
#24
#24
Big Cuz 15 said:
they might've overwhelmed him this offseason telling him to do all kinds of stuff. when the spurs took kawhi in they had him specifically work on the 3 point shot then slowly added things to his plate. okc had a defined role for adams when he came in( defend, block shots). they slowly added more responsibility when he showed he could handle what was given to him. i know our org's strength isn't developing talent but what are we doing with WCS? he looks confused out there when hes playing.
Click to expand...
Well he can start off by hustling, something that requires no skill whatsoever, maybe boxing out too helps. I guess that is too much to ask of him
 
Big Cuz 15

Big Cuz 15

All-Star
#25
#25
Larry89 said:
Well he can start off by hustling, something that requires no skill whatsoever, maybe boxing out too helps. I guess that is too much to ask of him
Click to expand...
hes often caught in no mans land between the person hes guarding and the person he's helping out on. maybe ben is giving his secret defense recipe he used during his rookie season
 
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Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#27
#27
Kingster said:
Doesn't matter what the lineup is. If there isn't enough talent on your team, it doesn't matter how you arrange it.
Click to expand...
No, it really does.

There are a great many results in the NBA that do not track exactly to "talent". You can get the most out of it, overachieve, or do the opposite. You can't make a pebble into a diamond, but you can certainly make it into a much shinier pebble.
 
F

Fora Dragi

Guest
#28
#28
Bricklayer said:
No, it really does.

There are a great many results in the NBA that do not track exactly to "talent". You can get the most out of it, overachieve, or do the opposite. You can't make a pebble into a diamond, but you can certainly make it into a much shinier pebble.
Click to expand...
You can lite a pile of poo in a bag and leave it on the front porch...but when you step on it, it's still a sticky pile of poo.
 
P

ppine

Starter
#29
#29
Actually when you are losing, it is time to experiment even more.
The Kings have some flat spots in their offense and seem to have trouble scoring late in games at times.
Defense is still their weak link. The intensity is much better, and they are playing much better in fourth quarters.
 
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