Kreidler: Christie deal good step for Petrie

VF21

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#1
http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story/12528284p-13383701c.html

Mark Kreidler: Christie deal proving a good step by Petrie



By Mark Kreidler -- Bee Sports Columnist
Published 2:15 am PST Tuesday, March 8, 2005


Doug Christie's surgery may or may not relieve the pain that stabs at his left foot like a serrated edge just about every time he steps on an NBA court, but that's not the question. The question is why the Kings knew so much about that pain, and the Orlando Magic either (a) didn't or (b) decided it wasn't the most significant thing in the world.
Why bother discussing it? Only this: Somewhere in the answer lies the difference between Geoff Petrie and a whole host of the other executives in the league - and, perhaps, a glimpse of how the Chris Webber trade (he's already unhappy in Philly) might someday be viewed.

What can you say? Revisionist opining is a beautiful thing.


Christie's bad wheel was hardly a company secret. He spoke openly of it last November in this space, acknowledging he needed an injection to be able to play for the Kings in the postseason last year, and that, more often than not, the first few steps out of bed each morning were pure torture.

The man has plantar fasciitis, a chronic inflammation of the tissue along the bottom of the foot for which the only solid prescription is extended rest, which of course he can't indulge. Christie called it "the most frustrating thing I've ever dealt with as a player," and it was the undercurrent to every minute he spent on the floor with Rick Adelman's bunch through the fall.

It's also one of the primary reasons Petrie was willing to further put asunder the Kings' vaunted chemistry by dealing off Christie for Cuttino Mobley. And, as we squat here today, you'd rather have Mobley's short-term injury than Christie's obvious long-term problem on your roster, no matter the great heart Christie brought to his work at Arco Arena.

Contrary to some local opinion, Petrie isn't a genius. He misses on deals occasionally (Nick Anderson comes to mind immediately), just like everyone else who takes risks for a living. But in the case of Christie, Petrie did understand very clearly that chemistry does a team no good sitting on the trainer's table - and he is classically bloodless, most of the time, as a front-office executive.

On that front, Webber may yet prove Petrie a proactive wonder. He already has required a coach-to-player meeting with Philadelphia's Jim O'Brien after Webber took offense to being played only 28 minutes in a recent game. Couple that with Webber's fully documented history of injury (it's nobody's imagination; it's fact), and it is possible Petrie ultimately will be revealed as the guy who moved a tad too soon rather than fully too late.

It's the old 49er way. You remember: When they were good.

The wonder in all this is that the Magic took a look at Christie's medical chart and his age (34) and still decided he was the best player they could acquire with Mobley as the bait. It's now the decision they have to live with, as Christie, tired, in pain and unhappy with a reduced role in Orlando, prepares to shut it down for the season and have surgery to remove bone spurs on both sides of his ankle.

Nobody knows how long Christie would have gone on his bad foot in Sacramento, of course. Maybe he would have gutted it out for the sake of the Arco crazies.

Certainly, he liked the team and respected the organization enough to throw his best out there every day.

But Petrie knew better than to bank on that foot - and it's experiences like the Christie deal that make you wonder how much longer it'll be before the Webber trade begins to assume a true proportion.

* Classic "Whoa! Step Back!" moment with Webber in Philadelphia, where O'Brien is already dealing with the reality Webber isn't going to be happy for long if Allen Iverson soaks up the available shots and plays full minutes.

Pulled in the third quarter and not reinserted until late in the fourth in Saturday's victory at Atlanta, Webber said, "I've never sat that long in my life. I don't know what to think."

"I didn't know it was going to be an issue," O'Brien replied. It won't be the last: When Webber committed a turnover in the late going against the Hawks, local reporters heard Iverson snap, "The ball should be in my (expletive) hands." Nope, coach, no issues here.

* Nice tap dance in the desert last week, with baseball Commissioner Bud Selig gutting up long enough to declare, "We are going to rid our sport of steroids." Memo to the boss: You and the other owners looked the other way for a decade while your sport came tromping back from the brink of financial ruin on the acned shoulders of steroid-ingesting Godzillas. You have no financial incentive to rid your sport of anything that prevents home runs from blasting 500 feet into the atmosphere, which, for most of your contemporaries, is the end of the conversation.

* Barry Bonds says his head hasn't grown and his private parts haven't shrunk, and maybe that's all the BALCO-related news we really need for a day, huh?



* Thanks for the calls and e-mails. Nothing bad happened. Nice to be back.



Reach Mark Kreidler at (916) 321-1149 or mkreidler@sacbee.com.



--------------------------------------------------------------------



The bolded part is what we've spent quite a bit of time talking about around here. The old "smelling the milk in the refrigerator a day before it goes bad" stuff...



At this point, I really have to wonder if any GM in his right mind will ever accept a phone call from Geoff Petrie again. And the strange thing is I know they will - because they don't realize he obviously has a time machine and he's altering the future he's already seen.

;)
 

VF21

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SME
#3
Isn't Billy the owner?

And the 76ers may or may not be "handcuffed," IMHO. If Webber is able to be productive and get them to the playoffs and beyond, I think it may have been the best thing all around.

Right now, it seems the main stumbling block is O'Brien.

--------------------------------------------------

But, back to the article and a discussion of Petrie since we have so many on Webber in the NBA forum:

I was upset with the first announcement of the trade and it took a while to separate the emotional from the logical.

Now, however, I have to resume my belief in Petrie and his desire to do whatever is best for this team. He's had a reason for everything he's done, although it has occasionally taken time for us mere mortals to recognize it.

IN PETRIE I TRUST

(After a short and regrettable lapse in faith, I am safely back in the fold)

;)
 
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Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#6
VF21 said:
Christie's bad wheel was hardly a company secret. He spoke openly of it last November in this space, acknowledging he needed an injection to be able to play for the Kings in the postseason last year, and that, more often than not, the first few steps out of bed each morning were pure torture.

The man has plantar fasciitis, a chronic inflammation of the tissue along the bottom of the foot for which the only solid prescription is extended rest, which of course he can't indulge. Christie called it "the most frustrating thing I've ever dealt with as a player," and it was the undercurrent to every minute he spent on the floor with Rick Adelman's bunch through the fall.
I had plantar fasciitis in both feet (at different times, thank God) about 6 years ago. Talk about painful. The only way for it to go away is Motrin (or similar) and resting it. Luckily I was able to continue working and just put my foot up on a chair and popped 800 mg Motrin every day. Both feet got better before too long (maybe 3-4 weeks for each?). I'd bet his case was at least 10x worse than mine was and he was apparently taking 4x the amount of meds just to function. You really feel for the guy....
 

VF21

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#7
Insomniacal Fan said:
You know, it still is possible for a trade to be bad for both parties involved ;)
I think people need to give Cuttino a fair chance. Petrie got him for a reason, and I think he's going to adapt nicely. He won't ever be able to pass as well as Doug, but that's not a surprise.

IF Petrie is in the process of rebuilding, then why not get a spark and see how he does, especially one who can always opt out at the end of the year if he doesn't fit in?

;)
 
#8
Insomniacal Fan said:
You know, it still is possible for a trade to be bad for both parties involved ;)
Seriously.....He has had a tough time since the Webb trade, but do not be so quick to forget some of his huge shots he has made.
 
#9
The Kings are 15-13 since the Christie trade and are giving up an average of 106 pts per game.

Honestly, I think Christie needing this surgery was iffy and he just decided to do it because he saw no point in trying to play for Orlando right now.
 
#11
swisshh said:
The Kings are 15-13 since the Christie trade and are giving up an average of 106 pts per game.

Honestly, I think Christie needing this surgery was iffy and he just decided to do it because he saw no point in trying to play for Orlando right now.
Our 15-13 record has nothing to do with the DC trade.
 
#12
Isn't the old axiom: Better to trade a player too soon that too late?

If Mobley doesn't fit he's gone after this year. Orlando on the other hand is on the hook for two more years.

Sometimes, it's not about making the team better for the moment. It's about risk management and building for the future. That is hard for many fans to understand.

I said at the time of the Webber trade that Petrie was a genius. IMHO even if we got nothing in return, relieving the organization of that contract was brilliant!
 
#13
G_M said:
Isn't the old axiom: Better to trade a player too soon that too late?

If Mobley doesn't fit he's gone after this year. Orlando on the other hand is on the hook for two more years.

Sometimes, it's not about making the team better for the moment. It's about risk management and building for the future. That is hard for many fans to understand.

I said at the time of the Webber trade that Petrie was a genius. IMHO even if we got nothing in return, relieving the organization of that contract was brilliant!
Isn't there a similiar axiom on giving up on a player too early?
 

VF21

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#14
G_M said:
Sometimes, it's not about making the team better for the moment. It's about risk management and building for the future. That is hard for many fans to understand.
It's not that it's hard for many fans to understand, IMHO, as it is hard for many fans to say good-bye to the last real piece of what got it all started.

I admit I was very vocal in my disbelief, but it was my heart speaking. My brain finally got through and the heart shut up.

Kreidler made another very interesting comment:

...he (Petrie) is classically bloodless, most of the time, as a front-office executive...
He's made some really tough decisions this season because in his mind they had to be made. After the fact, it was obvious his heart wouldn't have done them but luckily it's his brain that is the GM.

After a lot of thought, I've realized the Maloofs gave him the new contract for 4 years for a reason. They know what he's doing and they know why. And that is good enough for this Kings fan.

GO KINGS!!!!!
 
#16
seeing as doug was geting on in his career i think it was sensible to trade him for a younger mobley even if it does mean that our defence decreases a bit
 
#17
Heuge said:
Isn't there a similiar axiom on giving up on a player too early?
the risk of trading a player too soon or too late refers to older players who still produce, but are prone to crippling (for the player and the franchise) injuries. this is part of why teams like the knicks and hornets are so terrible: bad personnel decisions.

the idea of giving up on a player too soon relates more to younger players that aren't given a chance to develop properly before being shipped. the clips, warriors, and until recently, the bulls were/are all pretty good evidence of this sort of thing.

VF21 said:
He's made some really tough decisions this season because in his mind they had to be made. After the fact, it was obvious his heart wouldn't have done them but luckily it's his brain that is the GM.

After a lot of thought, I've realized the Maloofs gave him the new contract for 4 years for a reason. They know what he's doing and they know why. And that is good enough for this Kings fan.
i can't tell you how petrie honestly felt about any of these trades, but that aside, this is probably the most plainly intelligent thing i've read in the midst of all the trade mess these past few months.

there are millions of dollars riding on every move an nba team makes. the maloofs are clearly not willing to waste their dollars, and demand a championship every bit as much as the sacramento diehards do. it is petrie's job and obligation to make this happen and he is committed to it as much as the players, the coaching staff, and everyone associated with the team.

no one wants to lose. no one gives up championships for the hell of it. and frankly, if petrie and his people honestly don't believe that we're winning it with webb and dc, i have to believe that. petrie makes millions to know this stuff. we do not.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#18
I think you guys must also realize that Orlando made the trade in most part to break up the Francis-Mobley tandem. They felt that Steve Francis needed to be seperated from Cat b/c they wanted him to stand on his own. No matter what you hear on how high they were on Hedo and how they wanted to give him more minutes, it was more for Francis' benefit.
 
#19
The "In Petrie We Trust" motto should never have been "In Petrie We Trust to be Perfect". He is still human like the rest of us (well, most of us). Based on his track record, it's pretty safe to say he will continue to keep the Kings competitive and interesting while he is the GM. That still doesn't mean that trading Christie or Webber was the right move. I can understand the idea of trading a player too early rather than too late, but only if the chances of succeeding with that player are minute. I personally didn't think they were minute, but maybe Petrie did. Regardless, unless the Kings pull off a championship (or a championship worthy effort) this year or next, I will probably continue to consider the changes to be a bad idea.
 
#20
badnews said:
the idea of giving up on a player too soon relates more to younger players that aren't given a chance to develop properly before being shipped. the clips, warriors, and until recently, the bulls were/are all pretty good evidence of this sort of thing.
It also applies to vets who are coming off an injury. The Magic can definitely affirm this statement as they waited pateintly for Grant Hill.
 
#21
Heuge said:
Isn't there a similiar axiom on giving up on a player too early?
too early?? For example, if the Pistons traded away Darko for some frontcourt depth, and then Darko became a great player two years down the road, it would be said that they "gave up on him too early." Webber is 32!

I guess you will argue that Petrie should have waited until the Kings gave it one more playoff push with a post-injury Webb, and if they were eliminated again, then trade him away. But do you honestly believe the Kings could have beat the Spurs/Heat this year? If you do, then you are more of an optimist than I am.

And is the slim chance that Sacramento could have won a championship with Webb on the squad worth the risk of Webb getting injured? Webber's value IMO will never be higher than it was when Petrie acted, and I think come playoff time, this trade will be lauded as another brilliant move by Sacramento's GM.

And it was lucky that Petrie found a taker for Webber. Philly has been in a everlasting search for Iverson's Robin, and they thought getting Webber would get them into the playoffs and make them contenders. And they overlooked his age/injury/salary in taking him. Even in their circumstances, I can't believe they did.
 
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VF21

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#22
Vlad said:
And it was lucky that Petrie found a taker for Webber. Philly has been in a everlasting search for Iverson's Robin, and they thought getting Webber would get them into the playoffs and make them contenders. And they overlooked his age/injury/salary in taking him. Even in their circumstances, I can't believe they did.
They didn't overlook anything. Webber has been playing great ball this year.

What the 76ers wanted, they got. It's up to the coach to utilize Webber AND Iverson in the most efficient way possible and he (O'Brien) simply isn't doing it.
 
#23
Vlad said:
I guess you will argue that Petrie should have waited until the Kings gave it one more playoff push with a post-injury Webb, and if they were eliminated again, then trade him away. But do you honestly believe the Kings could have beat the Spurs/Heat this year? If you do, then you are more of an optimist than I am.

And is the slim chance that Sacramento could have won a championship with Webb on the squad worth the risk of Webb getting injured? Webber's value IMO will never be higher than it was when Petrie acted, and I think come playoff time, this trade will be lauded as another brilliant move by Sacramento's GM.

And it was lucky that Petrie found a taker for Webber. Philly has been in a everlasting search for Iverson's Robin, and they thought getting Webber would get them into the playoffs and make them contenders. And they overlooked his age/injury/salary in taking him. Even in their circumstances, I can't believe they did.
If you don't make the Webber trade, and then he is injured tomorrow and must retire, then you lose the contributions of Thomas, Williamson, and Skinner. You also don't have the ability to get rid of the big contract as easily as you would be able to trade those three smaller contracts (which aren't easy to trade either). As nicely as those guys have been playing lately, I believe Petrie could have fairly easily found similarly skilled players using trades and exceptions over the summer. I also don't expect the Kings to get under the salary cap any time soon. To me, a potential Webber injury did not pose a very big risk.

If you don't make the Webber trade, and the team continues on as it had been, then they did have a shot at the championship. Why? Because that team had playoff experience. More than any other Western Conference contender except the Spurs, they had been there and knew how to play after April. It was no fluke when a team struggling to a 4-8 record to close out the regular season came within 3 minutes of starting the playoffs 7-2. This year's team was better than that team, and so had just as much chance to knock off the upstarts that aren't built for the playoffs and have no postseason experience as teams. I'd have given them about a 40 to 60% chance of beating everybody in the West except for the Spurs. Now, against San Antonio, the chances of the pre-trade Kings beating a Duncan-led Spurs team was maybe 20%, and the chances of Duncan being injured is about 20%, and factoring all that stuff in I'd say the chances of the Kings making the NBA Finals would have been about 1 in 10. Without Webber, the Kings do have a shot, but they lose the advantages they had over Seattle, Phoenix, Dallas, Memphis and Houston. I'd say their chances now are about 1 in 25. That is a big jump.

So if I was Petrie and only knew what I know and didn't know whatever he knows, I would take the risks described in the first paragraph to get the increased chances described in the second.

That is how you can get rid of a 32 year old player too early.
 
#24
The worse thing that can happen is for Cat to become a free agent this summer...pretty good if you ask me since he will come off the books. On the Webber trade, yes, no more albatross contract tied around the Maloofs necks. All of a sudden they have 3 solid player/workers they can, worse-case-scenario, deal as a package or individually for anyone else around the league that can improove the team. To date, all 3 players have had awsome games, specially Skinner, so consider that an investment.
 
#25
gilly420 said:
I wouldnt be suprised if Billy King loses his job next year over the Webber trade. The Sixers are officially hancuffed through 2007.
Before the Webber trade, they were over the cap until 2009 (they were already handcuffed by Iverson's max deal, KT's hideous contract, Kevin Ollie's deal, and Aaron McKie's contract, among others). Now, they can get under the cap in 2008. Even if Webber doesn't work out at all, the Sixers IMPROVE their cap situation after the trade - that's what is so unbelievable, IMO, about the trade. It's a win-win situation for the Sixers - if Webber doesn't work out, they're no worse off than they were before (they weren't going anywhere), and they can rebuild 1 year earlier. That's not exactly the outcome they hoped for, but it may have to do.
 
#26
PFFFT!! said:
The worse thing that can happen is for Cat to become a free agent this summer...pretty good if you ask me since he will come off the books.
Mobley coming off the books won't help the Kings one bit. We're over the cap forever whether or not he stays or goes.

PFFFT!! said:
On the Webber trade, yes, no more albatross contract tied around the Maloofs necks. All of a sudden they have 3 solid player/workers they can, worse-case-scenario, deal as a package or individually for anyone else around the league that can improove the team. To date, all 3 players have had awsome games, specially Skinner, so consider that an investment.
KT's contract is the new albatross. Not quite as weighty as the Webber contract, but longer lasting (unfortunately). 8-8.5 million/year for a 10-8 player when he's 32-33 - NOT GOOD. Maybe Isiah Thomas will take him for his All 6"7 PF team he's building in NY, but I don't see him being tradable at all. Ditto for Corliss (a useful player, but teams are going to be really leery of his age and contract next season). The buy-out on Skinner's deal might make him tradable, if it was less than $4 million. I just don't see who the Kings can spin these players for - they aren't young and their contracts are bad (instead of having one really bad MAX contract, we now have 3 really bad $6 million dollar contracts).
 
#28
SacTownKid said:
I think you guys must also realize that Orlando made the trade in most part to break up the Francis-Mobley tandem. They felt that Steve Francis needed to be seperated from Cat b/c they wanted him to stand on his own. No matter what you hear on how high they were on Hedo and how they wanted to give him more minutes, it was more for Francis' benefit.
I think this is an important point...I didn't look at the DC trade this way until the CWebb trade, but trading Mobley was clearly an addition by subtraction situation for Orlando. Davis can't get the most out of Franchise with Mobley around (as Mobley plays too well to be benched, but there are players on the bench behind him who can perform admirably [JNelson] if given the chance, and if Franchise ups his performance, it makes up for Mobley's absence).

Unfortunately for Olrando, Hedo's been in a funk as of late (last I checked), but they are still in the playoffs at this point, and with Philly sliding from a challenger's position, Orlando may have a playoff bid sewn up if they don't collapse, which would be quite a nice turnaround after last year's season and the trading of TMac.
 
#29
RangerC said:
It's a win-win situation for the Sixers - if Webber doesn't work out, they're no worse off than they were before (they weren't going anywhere), and they can rebuild 1 year earlier. That's not exactly the outcome they hoped for, but it may have to do.
How can you say that? They didn't trade to get Webber's contract. They actually thought they were getting a guy who could help them make the playoffs this year and make a run the next couple years while Iverson is still in his prime. Now, they are completely screwed having a guy who can't play making 20+ million a year.

In case you haven't read the Philly papers the fans don't want to hear about rebuilding in Philadelphia. You may be the last person that actually thinks this is deal makes it harder for Sacramento to deal in the off season.
 
#30
6ers are 3-4 since the trade, we are 4-3, but before the trade the 6ers were 26-28, and they've played 6 games in 8 nights so what do you expect, especially from Webber who is known not to play well in back to backs (3 sets of back to backs in a row like we basically had a couple of weeks ago). Right now it might look like were the definite winners, but you have to wait and see. We all know what Webber can bring, yes in 2 years it would suck to pay him 20 million but that's the NBA CBA, it needs to be fixed.