Koufos

D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#1
#1
Seems to me that he's the realistic guy who will be traded and bring back a like vet SG. Who might that be? PHX is heavy on guards and are looking to move Bledsoe or Knight. I think to obtain something like that we would have to move some combination of Gay, Koufos and Ben.

Might have to set our sights a bit lower but I'd be going after Bledsoe if possible.
 
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kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#10
#10
Livinthedream said:
I didn't say it was a great idea. I'm not really sold on KK as much as others . My bigger concern is who plays SF if we trade Gay.
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The way I look at it, if you can't net something of value for Gay, might as well keep him for another season or wait til the February trade deadline and revisit the trade options then.
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#13
#13
If the Kings do sign Ryan Anderson, then the bigs rotation is set with the young guys learning. Beverly is an interesting name. What about a guy like Tony Allen? If Conley doesn't re-sign with Memphis, they have to trade a gu like Allen.

Regarding who is the backup to Boogie if Koufos is traded.....who is our starting SG is more important....no? Maybe we resign Rondo and Curry and retain Ben and DC. I'd hate to have Ben as the starter again unless Joerger can get the kid productive.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#14
#14
Its worth noting btw that last night Vlade said something along the lines of ":the bigs are set, now its time to work on the littles" or some such.

Don't know if that was meant literally. If it was, could mean Kosta is staying, that these kids we are so unsure of are going to be counted on to fill out the rest of the frontcourt, and that all free agency and any trades are going to be aimed at the backcourt. Might also mean no Anderson, unless he sees him as a new Peja type SF.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#15
#15
Well, if the idea is that Papa is going to take the role Willie had last year, and Willie is still in the picture, when and where does Kosta play? The Kings will play small with Gay at PF at times I'm sure.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#16
#16
SacTownKid said:
Well, if the idea is that Papa is going to take the role Willie had last year, and Willie is still in the picture, when and where does Kosta play? The Kings will play small with Gay at PF at times I'm sure.
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I've been getting the feeling Rudy may not be here.

But yes on the overall question. I think we see Skal as a potential PF, but Papa is clearly a C, as is Kosta, and Cuz is our starting C, so I don't see how Papa can get minutes unless Kosta is gone. Which might hurt him BTW as he was excited partially in having a couple of Greek speakers to ease his transition (Kosta and Peja).
 
E

ESP47

All-Star
#17
#17
Maybe I'm just being pessimistic but I don't see how this guy is going to go from 6-10mpg overseas to taking over Kosta's minutes in the NBA. I see him averaging last man on the bench type minutes. I think we are in trouble if we have to rely on him to back up a starter. I know people are saying well if we sign Ryan Anderson then we can have WCS backup C but WCS is still really lean and won't be able to guard the bigger C's out there. I don't see Papa Johns being able to guard anyone right now at this point.

Tons of players average single digit minutes in their rookie seasons and turn out to be just fine. You don't have to average 15-20mpg as a rookie to develop as a player.
 
funkykingston

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#18
#18
Here's what I think is set right now:

Starters
Cousins
Cauley-Stein
Gay (?)

Reserves who could be forced to start
Collison as he's untradeable now
Casspi

Rookies
Papagiannis
Richardson
Labissiere

Summer league/Training camp rookies with an outside chance
Cousins
Guidatis

Possible trade bait
Koufos
McLemore
Gay (?)

I think the Kings will dangle Gay & McLemore but not necessarily shop them hard but I think Koufos will definitely get moved. He doesn't work alongside Cousins and so he becomes soley a 12-14 mpg backup C and there are other ways to cover those minutes.

So what do I think happens? I'm not saying it's what I want, but I'm guessing that the Kings end up with Rondo, Courtney Lee and Ryan Anderson. Koufos could be dealt to either New Orleans or Charlotte in a sign-and-trade for Anderson or Lee. Moving that $8 million in either deal might give them just enough caproom to sign all three guys.

C Cousins/Papagiannis/
PF Cauley-Stein/Anderson
SF Gay/Casspi/Butler
SG Lee/McLemore/Richardson
PG Rondo/Collison

Now the Kings have just the room exception left and Labissiere as a deep bench big along with the possibility of signing Guidatis or I. Cousins.

I think they first see if Seth Curry can be had for the room exception. I don't think even as a restricted free agent they can exceed the cap to sign him and if so the room exception is the only option to retain him. If that works the PG rotation is set and the same as last season. If Curry gets more than that elsewhere (likely) then the Kings will have to either sign another PG for the room exception or vet minimum or roll with I. Cousins as the third string guy, which would be risky. They also have the option to bring back Acy with the room exception instead. I'll be optimistic and say Curry takes the room exception and then you end up with:

C Cousins/Papagiannis/Guidatis
PF Cauley-Stein/Anderson/Labissiere
SF Gay/Casspi/Butler
SG Lee/McLemore/Richardson
PG Rondo/Collison/Curry

Too much youth that's not ready to play in the PF/C spots but Boogie/Ryno/Trill should eat up almost all the minutes. If Cousins goes down, you start WCS and RA and swing Gay to PF for spells and try to give Papagiannis 10-15 when you can but avoid having to depend on him to produce. Besides, if Cousins goes down the Kings seem to lose anyway and I don't think the having or not having Koufos changes that.

I'm not big on bringing Rondo back and definitely not big on bringing him back while keeping Gay but I could see that being what the Kings do.

Next year I think Bogdanovic comes over and McLemore (assuming he isn't dealt at the deadline for something small) is allowed to walk and Bogdan and a sophomore Richardson fight for the backup SG spot with hopefully one of them taking over as the starter the next season when Lee has one or two years left on his deal.
 
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ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#19
#19
Bricklayer said:
I've been getting the feeling Rudy may not be here.

But yes on the overall question. I think we see Skal as a potential PF, but Papa is clearly a C, as is Kosta, and Cuz is our starting C, so I don't see how Papa can get minutes unless Kosta is gone. Which might hurt him BTW as he was excited partially in having a couple of Greek speakers to ease his transition (Kosta and Peja).
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I get the feeling that Rudy is gone as well.

I do think we would still be into Anderson in free agency. If we do get him, then I think Kosta will be traded as most of the frontcourt minutes would go to Cousins, WCS and Anderson. Then the spare minutes could go to Papagiannis or if we bring back Acy. WCS will play some C here as well.

If we end up getting Anderson, then I would not be surprised to see Kosta getting traded to Charlotte in a sign and trade deal for Lee. I also think now that NY has traded for Rose, the chances of getting Rondo back on a reasonable deal have increased for us. There are not that many suitors out there for him. Maybe Brooklyn.
 
E

ESP47

All-Star
#22
#22
funkykingston said:
I wouldn't mind seeing the Kings trading Koufos for Patrick Beverly, signing Bazemore & Anderson and trading Rudy for what they can.
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I like Beverly too but it brings me to a thought...who is going to distribute the ball? Does Beverly have backup PG playmaking abilities or are they held in check because Harden dominates the ball? I'd just hate to go back to the old iso days since we don't have a SG who can distribute.
 
funkykingston

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#23
#23
ESP47 said:
Just for the sake of conversation, does anyone think Courtney Lee is that much better than McLemore?
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He's better. Not in huge statistical ways or in terms of a massive skill difference but mainly in consistency and how he thinks the game. Lee doesn't have the same kind of lapses on defense or such wild fluctuations in his shot, handles the ball better and routinely makes the right play. He's not a great SG but he's solid, has a familiarity with Joerger and would provide more stability than McLemore at that spot.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#25
#25
Courtney Lee succeeds in the same role Ben has failed at. I think McLemore would do better with more shots, but in that same 8 or 9 shot per game pocket Lee makes his team much better, Ben doesn't look good until he starts getting more of a role in the offense. Defensively Lee's statistically one of the most impactful wing defenders in the league.
 
E

ESP47

All-Star
#26
#26
I know he's better but is he enough of an upgrade to really patch the hole we have at SG?

http://www.grizzlybearblues.com/201...emphis-grizzlies-player-previews-courtney-lee

I may not have paid enough attention but I've never thought of Lee as being a defender. He's had spurts where he's been solid but he doesn't have a presence out there. You play the Hawks and you know Kent Bazemore is out there. The guy is all over the place. It's very easy to forget Lee is out there because he doesn't make much happen. He reminds me of McLemore where he can play 30 minutes and you wont even know he's out there for more than 5. Yeah he's better in almost every aspect than McLemore but he's not that much better at anything. I don't know what the cap numbers look like but the more I think about Lee, the less of an impact I'm thinking he will make.
 
Mike

Mike

Bench
#27
#27
dude12 said:
Seems to me that he's the realistic guy who will be traded and bring back a like vet SG. Who might that be? PHX is heavy on guards and are looking to move Bledsoe or Knight. I think to obtain something like that we would have to move some combination of Gay, Koufos and Ben.

Might have to set our sights a bit lower but I'd be going after Bledsoe if possible.
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It would be great if we could get Eric Bledsoe. He's a borderline all star PG. A 20+ PPG type scorer, with decent play making ability, and is a very good defensive player. I think he would be an ideal running mate for Cousins, and if we could keep Rudy Gay in any deal (doubtful), that would be a decent "big three" to build around.

ESP47 said:
Who is going to play backup C?
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Here is our current roster:

PG: Collison / Cousins (rookie)
SG: McLemore / Richardson (rookie) / Bogdanovic (if he comes over)
SF: Gay / Casspi / Butler
PF: WCS / Labissiere (rookie)
C: Cousins / Koufos / Papagiannis (rookie)

Now in terms of who we could consider trading to find an upgrade at PG or SG, we are probably looking at Collison, McLemore, and Koufos as our most tradable players. I don't think we will want to give up Rudy Gay unless of course we end up receiving someone like Eric Bledsoe in the deal who would give us an upgrade at PG, a 20+ ppg player, and an ideal running partner for Cousins. But in an ideal world we can keep hold of Rudy and land a new starting PG who can form a "big three" with Gay and Cousins, and use defensively orientated players at SG and PF who can perhaps shoot the three.

But to answer your question, who is the back up center if we trade Koufos? As it stands, Papa, but we would also be able to go out into free agency and look at signing a mid-tier free agent center: Roy Hibbert, Timofey Mozgov, Marreese Speights, Ian Mahinmi, Zaza Pachulia, and Miles Plumlee. Granted we may want to keep Koufos, but he is a tradable asset and if we want to keep the likes of WCS, we may have to bite the bullet and trade Koufos and accept signing a mid-tier free agent center, or end up using Papa and WCS in the center rotation when Cousins is off the court.

Livinthedream said:
I didn't say it was a great idea. I'm not really sold on KK as much as others . My bigger concern is who plays SF if we trade Gay.
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Let's say a hypothetical trade occurs where we lose Rudy Gay and Ben McLemore but gain Eric Bledsoe. That would give us a legitimate upgrade at PG and leave us with:

PG: Bledsoe / Collison / Cousins (rookie)
SG: ? / Richardson (rookie) / Bogdanovic (if he comes over)
SF: ? / Casspi / Butler
PF: WCS / Labissiere (rookie)
C: Cousins / Koufos / Papagiannis (rookie)

Two holes to fill. Now I'm not sure how we stand cap wise at this point but I think we should have enough wiggle room to get two decent starting players like Courtney Lee and Luol Deng. They are capable shooters and defensive players who could slot nicely into our line up. Obviously if we had the cap space we could look at Barnes, Parsons, or Batum as possible starting SFs, but we could use free agency to fill that position. I appreciate that losing Rudy Gay leaves a void at SF, but if we fill the PG position with a borderline all star like Bledsoe, we are simply filling one void (starting PG) and opening another (starting SF). The question is, are there more capable stop gap SFs or PGs? From the free agent list, I think we could fill the SF with a better and more useful player than some of the journey PGs.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#28
#28
ESP47 said:
I know he's better but is he enough of an upgrade to really patch the hole we have at SG?

http://www.grizzlybearblues.com/201...emphis-grizzlies-player-previews-courtney-lee

I may not have paid enough attention but I've never thought of Lee as being a defender. He's had spurts where he's been solid but he doesn't have a presence out there. You play the Hawks and you know Kent Bazemore is out there. The guy is all over the place. It's very easy to forget Lee is out there because he doesn't make much happen. He reminds me of McLemore where he can play 30 minutes and you wont even know he's out there for more than 5. Yeah he's better in almost every aspect than McLemore but he's not that much better at anything. I don't know what the cap numbers look like but the more I think about Lee, the less of an impact I'm thinking he will make.
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huh?

Lee has been one of the consistent "3andD"guys this league has had for the past 5 years. I think he gets overrated as a defender as he doesn't make the impact that someone like Danny Green and a few other name value 3 and D guys, but he would be a quality upgrade for us, especially considering how little USG we have to go around.

He's an effective low USG guy who knows Joerger and is more importantly consistent with his play. We're going to get 37%-40% 3pt shooting, 8-10 PPG, 2 RPG, 1.5-2APG and good defense. Considering our SG position has actively cost us wins the past couple seasons, bringing in the consistency of Lee would be a welcome sight
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#29
#29
Bricklayer said:
I've been getting the feeling Rudy may not be here.

But yes on the overall question. I think we see Skal as a potential PF, but Papa is clearly a C, as is Kosta, and Cuz is our starting C, so I don't see how Papa can get minutes unless Kosta is gone. Which might hurt him BTW as he was excited partially in having a couple of Greek speakers to ease his transition (Kosta and Peja).
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I think Papagiannis will be ok with the English. He actually did 1 year of HS in the states. His English is surprisingly good. Of course, not better than Koufus lol
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#30
#30
ESP47 said:
Just for the sake of conversation, does anyone think Courtney Lee is that much better than McLemore?
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I don't think he's a lot better than McLemore. Have people watched the Grizz? His offense can get very streaky. There are games where he'll go 2-6, and disappear from games.

He's not much of a ball handler.
Not much of a hustle player.
Can't get to the rim, nor attack the paint.

The only thing he has above Ben is bball IQ, and just slightly better on defense. He's barely a fringe starter in the NBA. I don't know why everyone is so enamored by him. He'll also be 31 at the start of the season.
 
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