[Haynes, Yahoo Sports] De’Aaron Fox addresses Kings trade rumors, his ideal role in the NBA

[KainLear]

(Note: I know there is an automated thing that sharing articles, but I just wanna highlight this one, since I've just listened to the Deuce and Mo interview with Chris Haynes, because there is some positive Fox news in it. If this is in the wrong place, wrong discussion topic, MODS feel free to move it around as you see fit. Thank you!)
https://sports.yahoo.com/deaaron-fo...mors-his-ideal-role-in-the-nba-173928242.html

Go read the article if you haven't, it's a pretty cool, chill piece unlike some of the trade-deadline articles. But particularly I wanna share the couple of quotes Haynes got with Fox:
“I have to keep being persistent and keep playing,” Fox told Yahoo Sports. “I go out there and if I’m getting 30 points, I get 30. If I’m not playing well, I try to get through it. I’ve had good stretches, I’ve had bad stretches. I don’t think I’ve had as bad [of] stretches as I’ve had this year, for sure. But you just have to keep going. It’s a long season. You play a lot of basketball games and you're going to play well and you’re going to play bad. Do I think I’ve had the greatest season this year? No. I know I haven’t played too well. But I try to control what I can control and do the best that I can do.”

Part of Fox’s developmental hindrance is figuring out a consistent role. He’s been asked to play certain ways depending on the coach and the lineup he’s paired with. Fox said he takes "full responsibility” for his shortcomings, but with this season marking half a decade in the league for the guard, he said he has an understanding of the best way he can be utilized in order to reach his full potential.

“I think I’m a scorer,” Fox told Yahoo Sports. “Just with the work that I continue to put in and knowing what I do when the cameras are off. Just being one of the best scorers in the league, truthfully. I think I’ve proven that I can facilitate at times when need be. I was top five in assists before, but my game is more of being a scorer. Just being able to put all of that together and being one of the best scorers.”

This is why I still have faith in the Fox/Haliburton (very potentially even with Bagley involved), which is kind of hilarious in and of itself that we have to declare such things since usually fans have a little bit more patience in their homegrown talents' development. I still think, once Ty is given the go as the lead point moving forward, Fox can finally put all his focus (this coming off-season) into becoming the deadliest scorer in the league known for his speed and change-of-pace direction shifting, and predominately in the mid-range similar to KD and DeRozan.

 

[NewArena]

Yup! Unless there's some great deal out there that truly makes us better, i wanna give our current backcourt a real shot. We just need a real coach ASAP

 

[EIM86]

Yup! Unless there's some great deal out there that truly makes us better, i wanna give our current backcourt a real shot. We just need a real coach ASAP

tank and get a high pick to lure a coach to pick his franchise player. We’ll figure it out the rest after

 

[serbiangoat]

Was his ideal role carrying a team to the play-ins?

 

[Spike]

Was his ideal role carrying a team to the play-ins?

With the right coach, hell, even a mediocre one who knew what he had on the roster, the Kings would have already made the play-in.

 

[kb02]

With the right coach, hell, even a mediocre one who knew what he had on the roster, the Kings would have already made the play-in.

I do agree with you here. The worse thing this franchise has done over the last few years is to cater to Fox and Buddy's desire to run. They burned three plus years of development. I think Fox hits his ceiling, if he has a coach like Thibs or Carlisle forcing him to play the game within a structure. If Fox goes to Indy, he'll become an all star.

 

[fansinceday1]

Yup! Unless there's some great deal out there that truly makes us better, i wanna give our current backcourt a real shot. We just need a real coach ASAP

How many coaches does this franchise have to go through before fans realize that its not the coach that is the glaring problem?

 

[Spike]

I do agree with you here. The worse thing this franchise has done over the last few years is to cater to Fox and Buddy's desire to run. They burned three plus years of development. I think Fox hits his ceiling, if he has a coach like Thibs or Carlisle forcing him to play the game within a structure. If Fox goes to Indy, he'll become an all star.

So, if Fox has all-star potential, why can't he have it in Sacramento? While I disagree with you about running - I think we have players with speed, we should be able to run when possible, I agree that we have no half-court structure, and when defenses clamp down, we need to be able to adjust. We wasted development bringing in a coach (Walton) who has a history of not developing players.
Joerger was actually working on developing that...but, well, we all know what happened there.

A fast-break offense with secondary and tertiary sets is actually effective when structured well, but, we don't run it. As a result, everything just muddled.

 

[Spike]

How many coaches does this franchise have to go through before fans realize that its not the coach that is the glaring problem?

How many effective coaches do we have to get rid of before fans realize that management is the issue, and players will continue to falter in Sacramento until that issue is resolved? Feel free to explain Malone and Joerger, both who showed growth and development with their respective teams.

 

[kb02]

So, if Fox has all-star potential, why can't he have it in Sacramento? While I disagree with you about running - I think we have players with speed, we should be able to run when possible, I agree that we have no half-court structure, and when defenses clamp down, we need to be able to adjust. We wasted development bringing in a coach (Walton) who has a history of not developing players.
Joerger was actually working on developing that...but, well, we all know what happened there.

A fast-break offense with secondary and tertiary sets is actually effective when structured well, but, we don't run it. As a result, everything just muddled.

Because:

1. You have to give up talent to get talent.
2. The players in question are only a year or two older than Fox and are already multi-year all stars.
3. They're a better fit with Hali.

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1498678811344478219

so looking back at it now, I’m not sure if the fear of getting traded was weighing on De’Aaron’s mind or not or if playing with Sabonis has just helped him this much but since the trade deadline, De’Aaron has gone back to being the insanely productive inside the arc scoring machine he was last season but with slightly better shooting splits.

 

[EIM86]

Fox definitely has a “I’ll do it my way” kind of thing which is fine. Him saying he’s more of a scorer and can pass when needed is putting himself into a bubble that he doesn’t need to be. Why not be even more? Hopefully Sabonis rubs off on him cause the past couple games, he’s looking like a pretty good passer making him an even more complete player. #ijs

 

[coolhandluke]

Fox definitely has a “I’ll do it my way” kind of thing which is fine. Him saying he’s more of a scorer and can pass when needed is putting himself into a bubble that he doesn’t need to be. Why not be even more? Hopefully Sabonis rubs off on him cause the past couple games, he’s looking like a pretty good passer making him an even more complete player. #ijs

100% agree. These are good stats for Fox on a small sample size but I think he can do better on all aspects of his game given his talent level.

 

[Tetsujin]

Fox definitely has a “I’ll do it my way” kind of thing which is fine. Him saying he’s more of a scorer and can pass when needed is putting himself into a bubble that he doesn’t need to be. Why not be even more? Hopefully Sabonis runs off on him cause the past couple games, he’s looking like a pretty good passer making him an even more complete player. #ijs

The way I still interpret that comment is more that Fox didn’t want the entire offense to run through him a la Harden in Houston not that he never wanted to pass the ball again but that he’d rather let someone else share the load directing traffic to put him in better positions to score the ball. We’re sort of seeing what he meant in how he’s playing off of Sabonis. We’re seeing Fox love off-ball and make cuts that we could never really see before because he always had to be parked up around the arc to leave room for Tyrese or himself to make a blind dribble drive to hopefully collapse the defense.

 

[dude12]

Fox is doing something in the small sample size that only Giannis is doing and he can be better? Dude, he’s just not going to be enough for some.

 

[twslam07]

I think I saw Fox make one of the best passes I've ever seen him make last night. Not only did I have no idea how he saw DiVincenzo but I was also in amazed at his ability to execute that pass. It's here at 2:42 mark.

 

[coolhandluke]

Fox is doing something in the small sample size that only Giannis is doing and he can be better? Dude, he’s just not going to be enough for some.

I'm not a believer in cherry picked stats. Moreover, Giannis averages those gaudy stats for a season not just a few games, The difference between a good and great player is consistency over a long time at high efficiency.

I also don't understand why people are underestimating the talent of Fox and content with his fringe All-Star stats. He can be a more efficient scorer and much better playmaker. The stink of Walton has reduced him to an iso scorer when he can be so much more. I sincerely hope Fox has set higher targets for himself.

 

[kb02]

Fox is doing something in the small sample size that only Giannis is doing and he can be better? Dude, he’s just not going to be enough for some.

3-4 record. The Kings would have a winning record with Hali, who is the better player, and a much better fit next to Sabonis. Both in advanced stats and league demand. Fox has until next year's trade deadline to prove he can play next to Sabonis. There are some promising flashes, but I'm not convinced they'll work unless Fox improves his 3 point and set mid-range shooting.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm...&p2yrfrom=2022&sum=0&request=1#stats-advanced

 

[ockingsfan]

3-4 record. The Kings would have a winning record with Hali, who is the better player, and a much better fit next to Sabonis. Both in advanced stats and league demand. Fox has until next year's trade deadline to prove he can play next to Sabonis. There are some promising flashes, but I'm not convinced they'll work unless Fox improves his 3 point and set mid-range shooting.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm...&p2yrfrom=2022&sum=0&request=1#stats-advanced

While Hali would had been a better fit next to Sabonis, because of his 3 point shooting and passing, I don't think that Fox is a bad fit with Sabonis.

Fox and Sabonis gives the Kings 2 alpha scorers, which is essential in the NBA. If one guy goes cold, you still have another alpha scorer to pick up the slack. The trick now is to fill in the rest of the roster (especially the starting 5) with very good 3 point shooting players at the 2 and the 3/4. I think DDV will eventially fill in that 3 and D shooting guard spot next season. That leaves the 3/4 to be filled with either a lottery pick, trade or Trey Lyles steps up and fills it. The Kings need to hit big this summer with their lottery pick/trades.

If we can fill in that 3/4 with a star quality player that is a good volume 3 point shooter in the summer, the Kings should be able to take a big step next season as playoff contenders.

 

[kb02]

While Hali would had been a better fit next to Sabonis, because of his 3 point shooting and passing, I don't think that Fox is a bad fit with Sabonis.

Fox and Sabonis gives the Kings 2 alpha scorers, which is essential in the NBA. If one guy goes cold, you still have another alpha scorer to pick up the slack. The trick now is to fill in the rest of the roster (especially the starting 5) with very good 3 point shooting players at the 2 and the 3/4. I think DDV will eventially fill in that 3 and D shooting guard spot next season. That leaves the 3/4 to be filled with either a lottery pick, trade or Trey Lyles steps up and fills it. The Kings need to hit big this summer with their lottery pick/trades.

If we can fill in that 3/4 with a star quality player that is a good volume 3 point shooter in the summer, the Kings should be able to take a big step next season as playoff contenders.

The biggest issue is they're both scoring in the same area. The Kings need shooters to spread the floor. That's undeniable, but Fox needs to help with that by mproving his three point shooting and also his ability to slide to different spots in the paint and shoot a set mid range. Teams adjusted to the Kings after the first two games. Basically clogged the paint to make interior shots tougher and to take away the cutters that Sabonis was feasting on in the first two games. There are some promising signs, but I'm not convinced, yet, they'll work long term.

 

[hrdboild]

The biggest issue is they're both scoring in the same area. The Kings need shooters to spread the floor. That's undeniable, but Fox needs to help with that by mproving his three point shooting and also his ability to slide to different spots in the paint and shoot a set mid range. Teams adjusted to the Kings after the first two games. Basically clogged the paint to make interior shots tougher and to take away the cutters that Sabonis was feasting on in the first two games. There are some promising signs, but I'm not convinced, yet, they'll work long term.

Consistent shooting is the key. If the supporting cast guys like Harkless, Barnes, Metu, and Mitchell are all knocking down their three point shots we're going to be very hard to defend. Any three point shooting we get from Fox is a bonus but I actually think he's better on catch and shoots than he is pulling up from three so having Sabonis out there as the primary playmaker will probably help his shooting too.

 

[twslam07]

3-4 record. The Kings would have a winning record with Hali, who is the better player, and a much better fit next to Sabonis. Both in advanced stats and league demand. Fox has until next year's trade deadline to prove he can play next to Sabonis. There are some promising flashes, but I'm not convinced they'll work unless Fox improves his 3 point and set mid-range shooting.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm...&p2yrfrom=2022&sum=0&request=1#stats-advanced

I'm not sure you'll find someone who would have preferred...

Haliburton, Hield, & Thompson for Sabonis, Holiday, & Lamb

...over....

Fox, Hield, & Thompson for Sabonis, Holiday, & Lamb


I think it's pretty obvious that this deal was not on the table and that Indiana either had no interest in Fox or wanted significantly more value than just Fox. If Fox didn't get off to a bad start, who knows? Maybe that deal could have been on the table. Would have set us up pretty nicely though for the future. One can dream...

PG - Mitchell / DiVincenzo
SG - Haliburton / Lamb / Davis
SF - Holiday / Harkless / Jackson
PF - Barnes / Lyles / Metu
C - Sabonis / Holmes / Jones / Len

 

[Woot!]

Consistent shooting is the key. If the supporting cast guys like Harkless, Barnes, Metu, and Mitchell are all knocking down their three point shots we're going to be very hard to defend. Any three point shooting we get from Fox is a bonus but I actually think he's better on catch and shoots than he is pulling up from three so having Sabonis out there as the primary playmaker will probably help his shooting too.

Pretty big IF given that Harkless, Metu and Davion aren't even average 3-pt shooters. Neither is DDV nor Fox.

Davis is average, maybe slightly better, but streaky.

Literally the only good 3-baller they have is HB.

 

[hrdboild]

Pretty big IF given that Harkless, Metu and Davion aren't even average 3-pt shooters. Neither is DDV nor Fox.

Davis is average, maybe slightly better, but streaky.

Literally the only good 3-baller they have is HB.

Davion gets a pass because he's a rookie. I think he'll be fine once he settles in some more. Mostly I was just reacting to the idea that the other teams adjusted to the Fox/Sabonis duo and that's why the team hasn't had as much success. Harkless and Metu both shot the lights out in the Washington win. Barnes Mitchell and Fox shot well in the Minnesota win before that. It's consistency they struggle with. Even Buddy was all over the place from game to game this season.

 

[kb02]

Consistent shooting is the key. If the supporting cast guys like Harkless, Barnes, Metu, and Mitchell are all knocking down their three point shots we're going to be very hard to defend. Any three point shooting we get from Fox is a bonus but I actually think he's better on catch and shoots than he is pulling up from three so having Sabonis out there as the primary playmaker will probably help his shooting too.

Fox's pull up game has no base. It's like he never worked on any jump stops as a kid. Compare how he sets up off the dribble vs. Donovan Mitchell. It's night and day.

I agree that the Kings need shooters around Fox and Sabonis. That's undeniable. But unless Fox improves his shooting from three and in the paint (not layups or dribble midrange pull ups--set shots) that two man game will always be one dimensional (Sabonis feeding Fox majority of the time; kinda like Hali feeding Holmes) and subject to change. Most everyone would agree that Hali and Sabonis would be a much better pairing. But there are a number of PGs that would be a better fit unless Fox improves his shooting. Mike Conley (too old now) would be an all star next to Sabonis. A 2022 version of Mike Bibby would be perfect next to Sabonis.

 

[kb02]

I'm not sure you'll find someone who would have preferred...

Haliburton, Hield, & Thompson for Sabonis, Holiday, & Lamb

...over....

Fox, Hield, & Thompson for Sabonis, Holiday, & Lamb


I think it's pretty obvious that this deal was not on the table and that Indiana either had no interest in Fox or wanted significantly more value than just Fox. If Fox didn't get off to a bad start, who knows? Maybe that deal could have been on the table. Would have set us up pretty nicely though for the future. One can dream...

PG - Mitchell / DiVincenzo
SG - Haliburton / Lamb / Davis
SF - Holiday / Harkless / Jackson
PF - Barnes / Lyles / Metu
C - Sabonis / Holmes / Jones / Len

My response was to the the previous poster saying Fox will never be enough. He's not doing enough. The Kings don't have a winning record post trade. And I don't know if that will change long term. I hate cherry picked, raw stat citations without usage, volume, and pace adjustments. Fox's raw numbers with Hali were good as well. Where he suffered was in the efficiency stats, the eye ball test, and the win loss record. Prior to Sabonis, the argument was Fox had never played next to a star. Morant has never played next to a star either--yet he's winning. Fox is now playing next to a star and he's still not winning. I'm not convinced, yet, Sabonis and Fox will work. Tick tock.

 

[The_Jamal]

My response was to the the previous poster saying Fox will never be enough. He's not doing enough. The Kings don't have a winning record post trade. And I don't know if that will change long term. I hate cherry picked, raw stat citations without usage, volume, and pace adjustments. Fox's raw numbers with Hali were good as well. Where he suffered was in the efficiency stats, the eye ball test, and the win loss record. Prior to Sabonis, the argument was Fox had never played next to a star. Morant has never played next to a star either--yet he's winning. Fox is now playing next to a star and he's still not winning. I'm not convinced, yet, Sabonis and Fox will work. Tick tock.

Pacers are 2-5 with Hali running the show. They just got blown out by the Magic. If you're keeping consistent with your arguments, what you said about Fox applies to Hali has well.

Such a lame and lazy argument. The Kings have played significantly better since the trade. That's reflected in any metric/eye test you want to use.

The timeline has always been the next 2 seasons; not the final 20 games of a season after a coach gets fired mid-year and the team acquires 6 new players at the deadline. Not to mention, a feature offensive player that's a totally new archetype that no one on the team has played with. If you think about it, only 3 guys (Fox, Davion, Barnes) are still playing from game 1 that the Kings planned to play in their rotation with TD and Holmes hurt and Harkless in and out of the rotation. With that context in mind, it's amazing they've looked as good as they have on offense up to this point.

 

[kb02]

Pacers are 2-5 with Hali running the show. They just got blown out by the Magic. If you're keeping consistent with your arguments, what you said about Fox applies to Hali has well.

Such a lame and lazy argument. The Kings have played significantly better since the trade. That's reflected in any metric/eye test you want to use.

The timeline has always been the next 2 seasons; not the final 20 games of a season after a coach gets fired mid-year and the team acquires 6 new players at the deadline. Not to mention, a feature offensive player that's a totally new archetype that no one on the team has played with. If you think about it, only 3 guys (Fox, Davion, Barnes) are still playing from game 1 that the Kings planned to play in their rotation with TD and Holmes hurt and Harkless in and out of the rotation. With that context in mind, it's amazing they've looked as good as they have on offense up to this point.

The Pacers are tanking. The Kings are not.

Fox is playing next to an all star. Hali is not.

Context matters. No?

 

[Tetsujin]

The Pacers are tanking. The Kings are not.

Fox is playing next to an all star. Hali is not.

Context matters. No?

I don't know if you've been watching the Pacers games but they are not actively trying to tank.


They might not be trying to win all that hard (they're really milking Brogdan's injury for all that it's worth) but they're also not OKC resting half their roster every night and trying to get Shai to foul out by the 4th quarter.

In your argument, wouldn't playing next to an All-Star actually hurt Fox's numbers more than help it? Would Tyrese's numbers count as blatant stat padding or empty stats since "the Pacers are tanking"?

I'm not trying to single you out or anything but the whole "Sure, Fox is putting up numbers but on a bad team so they don't really get to count as much as a 'good' players' stats" somehow only counts when it's for De'Aaron Fox rather than when it's SGA or Tyrese or Devin Booker prior to CP3 coming to Phoenix?

 

[The_Jamal]

The Pacers are tanking. The Kings are not.

Fox is playing next to an all star. Hali is not.

Context matters. No?

As usual, you ignore everything in my counter-argument, but we'll continue:

Playing Tyrese 37.9 MPG and Buddy Hield 38.7 MPG doesn't sound like very good tanking to me. I wouldn't want to run my future PG into the ground in a lost season right?