Grades v. Knicks 3/20

Kings player of the game?

  • Beno Udrih: 20pts 7reb 7ast in 42min

    Votes: 12 20.0%
  • Kevin Martin: 30pts 5reb 4ast in 41min

    Votes: 9 15.0%
  • Spencer Hawes: 18pts 13reb 5ast in 31min

    Votes: 35 58.3%
  • Jaosn Thompson: 18pts 12reb 2ast in 35min

    Votes: 4 6.7%

  • Total voters
    60
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
Just painful. The NBAs only hope for its brand is that rather than watching this everybody was off on another channel watching a bunch of 19-20 yr old kids flying about without a clue rather than watc...I should say, enduring this. Very classy as well to see us take our only opportunity of the season to run up the score and play our starters right to the bitter end. Very fortunuate for us that the Knicks did not sign me off the street before the game, because somebody in Kings purple would have been taking a rather nasty spill before it was over.

Let's make the theme appropriate: History's Most Pathetic Performances

and it will come eventually...

NOTE: ok...not sure about the rest of you, but the site was down for me for about 12 hours (I'm guessing when the server saw the score of this one it had a heart attack), so I am getting going on this late....

so...keeping these brief:

Cisco ( B ) -- back before his homies and ironically about the only starter not playing well in the early game blowout. Played better in the second as a suport guy. Like everyone else got whatever he wanted, just a question of hitting. Spent a lot of time arguing with the refs looking for handouts on anight when neither he, nor we, needed them. This is the first of several grades here where I am going to apply a competition modifier -- you can either believe that all of our starters played the A+ best games of their lives, or you can have watched the game and realized that the Knicks were at least as responsible for many of the ridiculous numbers we put up. This largely felt like an average game for Cisco, except he was jsut so fortunate as to not actually have any opponents. So I went average with an uptick.

HMS Titanic -- you want to know a good way to end up looking like a complete dufus? Introduce your new boat with the claim that it is unsinkable...and then have it sink on its very first voyage! Doh!

Thomspon ( B+ ) -- worked easily and uncontested inside in the early going, added a jumper, but then really helped the Knicks get going on their only challenge of the night with sloppy turnover after sloppy turnover in the early second. After order was restored, all he had to do on offense was move toward the hoop with his hands up, and absolutely no Knicks big man would be within 5 feet as they softly wandered around the court trying to "help" or whateverthey were calling it. Ended up with similar numbers to Spencer as we just pounded the Knicks ridiculously inside, but this wasn't nearly as strong a game as Spence's, and the turnovers actually hurt us as much as anything was going to hurt us on a night like tonight.

Maginot Line -- in the modern era we have grown so accustomed to making fun of the french for giving up, being wimps, cowards, whatever, that it is often hard to remember (if indeed you ever knew) that for centuries in Europe the french were the great badasses of the continent. Everybody was scared of them. I know, hard to believe. In any case, that all changed after France's disastrous collapse and surrender in WWII (the truth was it had changed some 50 years before then, it was just made absolutely clear by WWII). A real good way to lose yourself a war is to not realize that times have changed and instead end up trying to fight the last one. And its a constant problem since of course future military leaders are drawn from the ranks of soldiers who learned their lessons in past wars. The Maginot Line -- a massive and intimidating 30 mile deep 350 mile long line of fortifications, barricades, forts, bunkers, power plants etc. etc. built by France after WWI along its border with Germany was just such a mistake. Built to win a slogging defensive grinding massacre like WWI (and heavily advertised by the french as impregnable), the Maginot Line completely failed to take into account the new mobility of military forces by the time of WWII. The Germans took one look at the Line, said, yep, that sure does look intimidating, and promptly drove around it (and flew over it), completely bypassing it and smashing France from the north instead. Oops. So pathetic that the french are still being made fun of for it 70 years later.

Hawes ( A ) -- in a welcome change from Charlotte grabbed most of the Knicks early bricks off the glass. When he returned, we immediately kicked it up a gear again as the Knicks just had nobody of that size and Spencer dominated them inside. Lee looked like he had quit before he arrived on the court and just sort of passively forced a few little attempted layups through Spencer, and then quit entirely. Spencer was able to use his dominance to set up teammates for passes as well as the Knicks clueless corps swarmed (relatively) around him and left everyone else on the court open. Slowed after halftime, considerably actually. But the damage was done by that time as the Knicks looked like us out there -- mounting themselves a little charge in the 3rd quarter...just to get themselves back to within 19. Best King on the floor tonight, and obviously the big bounceback game. In some ways its unfortunate it was the Knicks we were playing, and that they decided to lay down and tank on the night. I have no doubt Spencer wanted to bounce back form the Charlotte awfulness, but because he only had the Knicks to do it against, just how good he was on the night will forever be an open question. He dominated, but on this night, so would have Kenny Thomas.

Martin ( A- ) -- was actually pretty quiet in the first quarter, but led a little push immediately upon returning in the 2nd and never really slowed down thereafter, including getting to play almost to the closing buzzer in a near 30pt blowout. Not like there was anything stopping him from doing so. The Knicks closest excuse to a perimeter defender is supposed to be Chris Duhon, before he came to New York, got D'Antonied, and hurt his back. Tonight he was completely ineffectual in all ways and Kevin just got whatever he wanted wherever he wanted it. A good performance, and I felt like it had to be an A-, but so easy against so little pressure that you have no idea just how good it was.

Udrih ( A- ) -- got off to the fast start just operating completely unopposed out there. As mentioned Duhon was awful, and little Nate doesn't even really try. He'll bounce around every once in a while, but just bounced off Beno and Beno actually used his size somewhat to his advantage. You ever wanted to see what Beno looks like running layup drills, here was your chance. Being Beno he of course disappeared in the second quarter. But he returned as maybe the game breaker in the third, not with brilliant passing, not with long bombs, nifty layups or anything else that would be required to put away a good team, but by simply dribbling down the court, totally unchallenged, dribbling into the lane, totally unchallenged, and pulling up for 8-10 foot jumpers, totally unchallenged. Again and again. And again. And again. Hey, if they aren't going to stop it...but still jsut a mind numbingly bad display of "basketball" by the junkballers from the Big Apple.
 
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#3
Very classy as well to see us take our only opportunity of the season to run up the score and play our starters right to the bitter end
It's not like they had much on the bench. They only had 9 players available so 1 starter had to be on the floor. The only question I have is what happened to Solomon? He's the only guard they could have brought in that didn't start. He only played 6 minutes.
 
#5
I've been wishing for a win against an EC team for ages now. We've had some pretty close losses to EC teams and I was over the moon when I saw the results. We should've beat Cleveland when they beat us in OT though.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#6
JVery classy as well to see us take our only opportunity of the season to run up the score and play our starters right to the bitter end. Very fortunuate for us that the Knicks did not sign me off the street before the game, because somebody in Kings purple would have been taking a rather nasty spill before it was over.

Let's make the theme appropriate: History's Most Pathetic Performances

and it will come eventually...
??? when other teams run up the score it's sending a message but when the poor Kings, playing one of the few games this season where it's even remotely possible do it, it's a reason to talk about somebody in purple taking a nasty spill?

Just who else did you want to see out there, considering the depleted roster? The guys who got the win played well and fully deserved to have the slightest bit of fun. It's been a long time.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#7
??? when other teams run up the score it's sending a message but when the poor Kings, playing one of the few games this season where it's even remotely possible do it, it's a reason to talk about somebody in purple taking a nasty spill?

Just who else did you want to see out there, considering the depleted roster? The guys who got the win played well and fully deserved to have the slightest bit of fun. It's been a long time.

Now you are just making up homer bullhookey -- there is not a single person on this board who has said when other teams run up the score it is "sending a message" other than the message being "we are bunch of jerks".

We had 3 starters over 40 minutes and playing in the final 4 minutes with a 25-30pt lead. We had no benchers over 19 minutes. Our backup PG played 6 minutes. We have been on the other end of this type of blowout multiple times this season, and I do not recall any ONE of those teams pulling that stuff. I can only assume this was some kind of payback for the Knicks blowing us out in December (and ironically giving Natt his job). But the Knicks called off the dogs in that one with 6 minutes to go and even gave garbage bag man 4 minutes (Jerome James).

And yes, if they had decided to splat us I wouldn't have even blinked. Some things you do to yourself.
 
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#8
I agree we should have gone to bench a little sooner in the 4th. One thing I liked, however, was that no matter how small the Knicks went, Natt stayed big (and even went 'bigger' is some cases). The lineup of Beno/Martin/Greene/Thompson/Hawes was a nice thing to see. At that point, our small forward was bigger than their center.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#9
Now you are just making up homer bullhookey -- there is not a single person on this board who has said when other teams run up the score it is "sending a message" other than the message being "we are bunch of jerks".

We had 3 starters over 40 minutes and playing in the final 4 minutes with a 25-30pt lead. We had no benchers over 19 minutes. Our backup PG played 6 minutes. We have been on the other end of this type of blowout multiple times this season, and I do not recall any ONE of those teams pulling that stuff. I can only assume this was some kind of payback for the Knicks blowing us out in December (and ironically giving Natt his job). But the Knicks called off the dogs in that one with 6 minutes to go and even gave garbage bag man 4 minutes (Jerome James).

And yes, if they had decided to splat us I wouldn't have even blinked. Some things you do to yourself.
In all honesty Bricky, who really cares? So one bottom dweller disses another bottom dweller. I doubt the Cav's or the Celts etc really took notice. Our team did what it was suspossed to do when facing another team that didn't show up. No one will remember except the Knicks, and I won't lose any sleep over them.
 

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#10
I agree we should have gone to bench a little sooner in the 4th. One thing I liked, however, was that no matter how small the Knicks went, Natt stayed big (and even went 'bigger' is some cases). The lineup of Beno/Martin/Greene/Thompson/Hawes was a nice thing to see. At that point, our small forward was bigger than their center.
Agreed. Quit with the small ball, except maybe in small stretches. I liked seeing our bigs get some quality minutes and performing well.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#11
Now you are just making up homer bullhookey -- there is not a single person on this board who has said when other teams run up the score it is "sending a message" other than the message being "we are bunch of jerks".

We had 3 starters over 40 minutes and playing in the final 4 minutes with a 25-30pt lead. We had no benchers over 19 minutes. Our backup PG played 6 minutes. We have been on the other end of this type of blowout multiple times this season, and I do not recall any ONE of those teams pulling that stuff. I can only assume this was some kind of payback for the Knicks blowing us out in December (and ironically giving Natt his job). But the Knicks called off the dogs in that one with 6 minutes to go and even gave garbage bag man 4 minutes (Jerome James).

And yes, if they had decided to splat us I wouldn't have even blinked. Some things you do to yourself.
We're supposed to be giving the kids minutes for the future, right? Getting Jason and Spencer to learn to play well together, right? Well, for one of the very few times I can remember, they actually did play well together and neither of them got into early foul trouble, which is itself rather an impressive feat.

McCants didn't play at all, most likely because his ankle is still just a little tweaked. Nocioni didn't play because of the ongoing tendonitis. Diogu played, as did Booth. When Natt finally saw what he's been begging for all year, a team that actually looked like a team, actually going for rebounds, etc. he left them in and let them reap the reward.

I'm sorry but I (who if you recall usually protests about teams running up scores) had no problem with how the minutes were allocated tonight because the Knicks did absolutely nothing to help themselves.

I could be mistaken, but I could swear you've talked about pride on the court. Tonight we saw some pride in our kids. Even Donte Greene was doing more right than wrong. You don't bench them (and in their minds it would have been a benching) just because the other team is taking a beating. We're not talking all-star players. We're talking kids, for the most part, still learning the game. They've been on the receiving end of some royal thumpings this season. Letting them actually deliver one was only fair IMHO.
 
#12
I also think that coaches know between themselves that when you are a bottom dweller, leaving players in doesn't necessarily mean you are running up the score. More that it is a coach looking to get some improvement and consistency from his core players in a game in which they dominated from start to finish. Basically showing them what it feels like to really win a game. I thought it was fine.
 
#13
I agree with VF. Greene/Hawes/JT got major minutes in a blowout (that we actually won). I think it was important for them to be in a game and get major minutes, and actually reap the reward for playing so well.

Besides...it was nice to finally stick it to the other team, ESPECIALLY the Knicks...now if only we could do the same to the Magic...
 

Entity

Hall of Famer
#14
ahhhh thanks to last minute plans by the wife i missed my first game in over 3 years and it was the best they had all season.
 
#15
I agree with VF. We have been asking all year to play the kids, and the one night that they play major minutes and play well together we are supposed to bench them because we are winning??? I don't think so, plus its not like we were playing the vets while the kids had to watch on the bench. They showed heart tonight and I think it was nice to see the young guys come together and get a nice win.
 
#17
brick, sometimes you're just.....too.....much. But I love how much you care for this team. Were not gonna lose them all and I know that's not you're argument here but if were winning might as well let them finish it out. All the guys except beno maybe are our future. The rest are just bench filler nobodys and I don't mean that in a disrespectful way.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#18
I agree with VF. We have been asking all year to play the kids, and the one night that they play major minutes and play well together we are supposed to bench them because we are winning??? I don't think so, plus its not like we were playing the vets while the kids had to watch on the bench. They showed heart tonight and I think it was nice to see the young guys come together and get a nice win.
This has got nothing to do with playing the kids or playing the vets, this is sportsmanship 101, and sometimes you can really tell who has competed and who has not. You don't do that. It is disrespectful, and even worse in front of the opposing team's fans. And it is has occasional consequences in every sport. It is how you get beaned in baseball, punched in the face in hockey, splatted on the way to the hoop in basketball, and there are a myriad of ways to get the point across in football, although killing the quarterback is always a popular choice. There is a code, and really its not too far off from the eternal "do unto others..." If there were no such code, we would have been beat by 60 on several occassions this season.
 
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#20
Let's make the theme appropriate: History's Most Pathetic Performances

and it will come eventually...
I do not know if you mean just only basketball, but here is one by Chris Klein. I still can not beleive I watched this garbage


[yt=chris klein street fighter]Bs4G4LmzTwU[/yt]


[yt=chris klein street fighter]NYOcUVdIOhE[/yt]
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#21
This has got nothing to do with playing the kids or playing the vets, this is sportsmanship 101, and sometimes you can really tell who has competed and who has not. You don't do that. It is disrespectful, and even worse in front of the opposing team's fans. And it is has occasional consequences in every sport. It is how you get beaned in baseball, punched in the face in hockey, splatted on the way to the hoop in basketball, and there are a myriad of ways to get the point across in football, although killing the quarterback is always a popular choice. There is a code, and really its not too far off from the eternal "do unto others..." If there were no such code, we would have been beat by 60 on several occassions this season.
IF we had a team with veterans, etc. I might tend to agree. BUT we don't. We have a team with starters that might not even be the second string on a real team. I read a lot of articles online today and, thus far, the only person talking about running up the score as though it was something shameful is you. :p

So, once again, I guess we'll agree that we see this differently.

:)

And yes, the site was down until just a few minutes ago.
 
#22
This has got nothing to do with playing the kids or playing the vets, this is sportsmanship 101, and sometimes you can really tell who has competed and who has not. You don't do that. It is disrespectful, and even worse in front of the opposing team's fans. And it is has occasional consequences in every sport. It is how you get beaned in baseball, punched in the face in hockey, splatted on the way to the hoop in basketball, and there are a myriad of ways to get the point across in football, although killing the quarterback is always a popular choice. There is a code, and really its not too far off from the eternal "do unto others..." If there were no such code, we would have been beat by 60 on several occassions this season.
Once again. Who were they suppost to put in? They had Booth and Diago. Both of which were part of the rotation. So your bitching about them giving Hawes (second year player) and JT (rookie) extra playing time in a blowout rather than bringing in 2 vets who pretty much arent in the teams future. It appears they had 3 guards (beno,martin, garcia) available and all 3 were starters. For some reason Solomon never got back in the game. Maybe he was sick or hurt, who knows but it looks like he wasnt available. So Knatt ended up pulling garcia out and put greene in then put garcia back in for Martin.

So be specific, excatly who was he supposed to put in and when?
 
#23
I turned this game on in the third and the Kings were killing the Knicks. Normally, I would change the channel on a blowout, but I stood in front of the TV and watched as the fourth quarter expired just to ensure they did not blow it. I was so relieved! No East sweep!
 

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#24
NOTE: ok...not sure about the rest of you, but the site was down for me for about 12 hours (I'm guessing when the server saw the score of this one it had a heart attack), so I am getting going on this late....
Same here - wasn't just you.
 
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