Grades: Kings Summer League GAME 2, 7/9/17

Discussion in 'Kings Rap' started by Tetsujin, Jul 9, 2017.

?

Player most likely to be a future MVP

  1. Jack Cooley

    13 vote(s)
    52.0%
  2. Yes

    12 vote(s)
    48.0%
  1. Tetsujin

    Tetsujin The Game Thread Dude

    Another game, another loss that sets back this team a decade. The entirety of our hopes and dreams for the Kings franchise is crumbling before our eyes like a cake removed from its baking pan far too early. Papa sucks, Skal sucks, Buddy Hield can't shoot, De'Aaron Fox can't shoot and is too light, and Justin Jackson is obviously a bust. If there ever was a time to cut ties with Vlade it'd be now. That Jack Cooley guy is totally a keeper. White, in his mid twenties, undersized with little to no athleticism? Now that's a guy I can get behind.

    In all seriousness, I've been preaching the relative meaninglessness of Summer League as any sort of benchmark of the rebuild's progress going forward. There were some good things and some bad things and random scrubs on their last legs in the league scrapping and clawing for the chance to continue cashing an NBA paycheck.

    Plus, considering it's a tournament system, it's not like losing our first two games of Summer League has completely blow any chance at winning the Ty Corbin Trophy.

    Justin Jackson (C-):
    On the plus side, played completely within the offense and took few bad shots. On the negative side, he missed almost every shot he took. Considering his track record in college and his debut game several nights ago, this game is probably an aberration but that doesn't make it any easier to watch. Down the stretch, Jackson had a bunch of wide open threes that probably would have completely turned the game's momentum over in the Kings' favor. On defense, wasn't particularly bad but obviously still has room to improve, even taking into consideration his relatively average lateral speed.

    Skal Labissiere (B-):
    Continuing off of his mediocre play to start of summer league, Skal had (if you really squint) a bit of a bounce back game. While the continued lack of any self-generated offensive game game remains concerning, he ran the rims hard and obviously has a bit of chemistry with De'Aaron that will hopefully come in handy for the next decade or so. He even decided to throw in a rebound or two this time around after barely even managing one against the Suns. Still, Skal's been far too passive for my liking in Summer League, especially when he's arguably the second most talented player on this squad. Let's see if he takes it to the Lakers next time around.

    Georgios Papagiannis (C):
    While doing nothing to calm the randomly rising tide of resent meant against him in certain pockets of the fanbase, I thought Papa had a pleasantly middling game. Down the stretch, Papa combined with De'Aaron on a couple of plays converting a lob and a putback dunk to keep the Kings in striking distance. The Greek Peak continues to show difficultly making a play on the ball in traffic, which may be part of the reason why we've been seeing the team use him in the high post, but is more often than not a nuisance for the other team who most definitely is aware of his presence. As our third youngest player, if Papa can carve out a simple role as a finisher and physical enforcer inside for this season, that would be enough to convince me that his development is still following a good arc.

    Buddy Hield (C-):
    Buddy's performance may be the most frustrating aspect of the Summer League thus far. We all know Buddy can shoot and that Buddy can score. We all know that he's not the most athletic guy in the world but that he can still make plays. Thus far however, Buddy's driving abilities have been more on display that his hot shooting. Combined with Justin Jackson, may have right shot the Kings right out of the victory except in his case he forced a bajillion shots and his man on defense went out and dropped a game-high score on him. If this continues in the regular season, we have live a half-dozen other two guards to take some of his minutes so I'm not too worried here.

    De'Aaron Fox (B):
    It was a tale of two halves for the prized point guard. In the first half, Fox seemed tentative and was eaten alive by former Kingsfans.com draft crush Wade Baldwin, looking every bit the rookie that his is. In the second half, the speedy guard played like he did at times in the first game, showcasing the speed and playmaking that can make him a special player in the league. One caveat to the performance today is that his inconsistent shot really came up to bite him in the butt tonight. Sure, he hit a three to help the box score at the end of the game but he missed some shots he should have made. If he wants to succeed in the league, that'll definitely need to be something he needs to work on but I think he knows that. Either way, another encouraging game from the Speed Demon and anyone capable of doing this deserves at least a little praise.


    Eric Stuteville (inc):
    Random summer league roster filler guy got to see some playing time thanks to the several injuries above him on the depth chart and him being a local kid who is Sac State's first ever summer leaguer. Pulled in a couple boards, hit a free throw. I'm sure some team in Asia will be happy to have him.

    Luis Montero (inc):
    Same story here. Montero's seen time in the league before but probably won't be seeing anymore, at least with the Kings. Did grab a board though.

    Frank Mason (C):
    Has perhaps been similtaniously the most disappointing and by-the-numbers of the Kings draft class. As the 34th pick, expecting him to take the league by storm is dumb and he's been relatively solid in his time on the floor and yet, considering the hype surrounding this pickup, you have to be a little disappointed that he hasn't shown too many flashes in his time this summer. Being the third string PG will give him time to figure things out though.

    Jack Cooley (M for MVP):
    Seemingly every season in Kings summer league, there is that one random big man scrub dude who endears himself to the fanbase and garners unhealthy expectations of how he'd actually be in an NBA game. Louis Amundson, Justin Williams, Jon Brockman, Eric Moreland, wash rinse repeat. That isn't to say that watching him barrel into crowds of other random scrubs and grabbing boards and hustle stats isn't fun but just a general reminder that this is summer league and things are weird here. People wanting to cut Papa to sign Cooley may have had one too many casino cocktails.

    JaKarr Sampson (B-):
    One casualty of the random asset shuffling phase of the early Sixers process, Sampson has seen some time in the NBA, albeit on the Sixers at their Process-iest (the starting point guard at the time was Tony Wroten), and would seem to serve the role of random depth SF that this team still needs. While a full-on NBA roster slot is probably out of the question given our full roster, I could see us bringing him in for a two-way deal. Still seemed to show that he is deserving of at least a little burn down the Summer League stretch.
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
  2. jcassio

    jcassio Well-Known Member

    Fox - More turnovers in his 2nd SL game, but still impressive.
    Hield - Had a couple of nice plays at the end of the game when the Kings were trying to make their move. But otherwise he needs to find his shot. And don't let it go!
    Jackson - Since he couldn't hit the side of a barn tonight, I'm not sure whether I'm impressed or depressed that he just kept on shooting!
    Skal - He's gonna find his rhythm soon. Right? At least he picked up his rebounding tonight,
    Mason - Looked better in this game, but I think the people who said he was NBA-ready were a little off. Maybe Reno-ready.
    Papa - Better. Keep improving.
    Cooley - Is there still a need for guys like this in the NBA? Sad that he's one of our better players through the first 2 SL games.
  3. Kings Faithful

    Kings Faithful Well-Known Member

    Jacksons shot was off but they weren't bad shots. If anything im impressed he kept shooting. It shows confidence. I got a good feeling about him going forward.
    jcassio, biltalent and SLAB like this.
  4. Suicide King

    Suicide King Well-Known Member

    Post game with Jason March.


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  5. SLAB

    SLAB Well-Known Member

    Jackson had McBen syndrome tonight where everything looked pure... then the shots just weren't going in. Hopefully that isn't the norm.
    Tetsujin likes this.
  6. Suicide King

    Suicide King Well-Known Member

    The way I am looking at everything is thus: There is no pressure for us to be playoff bound so soon after starting a rebuild in earnest.

    I see things that concern but not on any major level. Yet. And it would be some time before I begin to really worry. Coach Joerger and his staff are very likely trying things out that they won't get to in the regular season. The first and second year players have a lot of growing pains to get through before they should be expected to look like NBA vets.
  7. Čarolija

    Čarolija Well-Known Member

    Another thing is that I am not sure that winning is a priority. While you go out there to win every game, I think the coaches are using Summer League as a tool to teach people certain aspects of the game.

    After the first game coach March mentioned that they wanted to see Fox run some stuff for them which meant that they didn't put him into a lot of pick and rolls/pops with Skal. Buddy is handling the ball a lot more than he normally does. I have no doubt that Summer League is used for developing some aspects of players' game and not necessarily doing everything they can to win.
  8. CelticsFan

    CelticsFan Active Member

    I haven't posted in a few weeks because I don't agree with the majority of this board in regards to our signings and draft picks and I don't wanted to get slammed as being negative BUT here I go.

    Last night these guys didn't look good. I'm not worried about Fox but Buddy looks like a chucker who hasn't improved his handle. He has 4 years of college ball under his belt and one year of NBA experience he should be dominating, I'm afraid his ceiling may be a roll playing bench guy. Skal wasnt terrible but I would like to see him be more aggressive.

    Papa just isn't any good. He was a reach by Vlade and should have been statshed overseas for at least two years. When it comes to Mason and Jackson I see both guys at best as role players, I wanted Vlade to take a swing at a guy with higher upside. Sorry to be a downer but that's what I think. Tough times are ahead
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  9. The Hammer

    The Hammer Well-Known Member

    It's ok man.

    I think I might have been one who would've slammed you but I'm learning to be more tolerant.
    pshn80 and CelticsFan like this.
  10. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    I get the sense the Coaches are letting the Fellas freelance more in SL than we will see in the regular season. Sort of like George Karl did when he was with the Kings. School yard basketball with a little advice on what to try.

    I think with a tighter game plan, more called plays/sets and defined roles these guys will look much better.
    pshn80 likes this.
  11. hrdboild

    hrdboild Well-Known Member

    It's a fair assessment. I thought a lot of the post-draft reactions were over the top ridiculous but what can you do, we're fans right? Even the so-called experts fall into the same trap. Buddy and Skal should be dominating these games if they're the high level starters we want them to be. Frank Mason has looked overmatched and undersized so far which makes the decision to pass on Jawun Evans that much more questionable. I would quibble that we did get a high upside guy in Harry Giles and the best version of this story from a Kings perspective has him vindicating his elite HS ranking and emerging as an All Star at PF but the odds are long on that one and he wasn't a guy I would have bet on in the first round if my job were on the line. I find myself questioning if Buddy and Skal are locks in the starting lineup at this point or just solid role-players. I still want to see us pick up a young defensive-minded SF in trade because I don't think Jackson is the future at the position for us either. But all of this is guessing with very little empirical data to go off.

    The counter argument is that it's just Summer League. Guys who look like All Stars in Summer League turn into busts. Elite prospects can wow in this setting but a lot of guys on guaranteed deals are just trying to not get hurt. The fringe players trying to earn roster spots play the hardest but how excited can you get about a 26 year old non prospect hoping to be a 15th man somewhere? Frank Mason was a second round pick so it's not like we wasted a valuable asset on him if he doesn't pan out. Fox has been as advertised. Justin Jackson has been a mixed bag and Buddy has reverted to his early season Pelicans form from last year but none of these guys have been "uh oh!" bad like Ben McLemore and Thomas Robinson were in the same setting. I think the best course of action is to enjoy watching all these kids take their first steps as professionals and then hope that our coaching staff and veteran leadership can right the ship when the games actually matter. As a Boston fan you should know how quickly things can turn around with a couple good mid-season trades for 'mid tier' talent that ends up being more than that with the right supporting staff. If we get guys playing hard and playing together there's no reason why we can't ultimately be better than the sum of our parts too.
  12. Tetsujin

    Tetsujin The Game Thread Dude

    One of my most enduring memories of Summer League is that time Donte Greene randomly scored 40 as a Rocket, which is probably the ultimate reminder that we shouldn't take these mid-July glorified scrimmages too seriously.
  13. CelticsFan

    CelticsFan Active Member

    Do you take what you see from Fox seriously? To me he looks very quick and plays good defense, he looks like he belongs. Im confident saying I think he will have a good season. If after seeing him play I can be confident he will have a good season then I have to go by the same eyeball test for the rest of their guys.
  14. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    Donte was Lebron for that one game.
  15. Tetsujin

    Tetsujin The Game Thread Dude

    Donte had the unique ability to be either the worst basketball player in the universe or a human highlight reel but nothing in between. Still one of my favorite Kings players of all time but most of that might just be because of the Goon Squad thing.
  16. Tetsujin

    Tetsujin The Game Thread Dude


    The thing with Fox is that I'm fairly certain the speed will translate. He'll be going against better defenders for the most part but against the Grizzlies, he was playing Wade Baldwin, who is an actual NBA player. In the case of guys like Buddy Hield, I feel like the shooting will be there during the season and a lot of the bad habits brought on by playing in a "league" dominated by random scrubs trying to chuck their way to an NBA contract will go away. In the case of Skal and Papa, both guys are still too raw to really take too much away, especially when the coaching staff is putting a lot more on their plates now than they would during the season. And I mean, your Celtics wanting to pick Papa at 16 spurred Vlade to draft him at 13 so how bad could he be? ;)
  17. King Baller

    King Baller Well-Known Member

    The analogy I will make is with IT. Many of us Kings Fans watched him come in as a Rookie. He played his college ball at Washington. He played 3 years there and had some pretty good stats:

    http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/isaiah-thomas-1.html

    As a Rookie he looked OK at times. Better than Jimmer most nights. But nobody saw an All Star. I thought Sixth Man of the year was a possibility. The point is it is way too early to predict what these young Kings Players will be. I mean you can project what they might be but they will end up somewhere between IT and Jimmer in most cases:)

    Fox does look special:)
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  18. Spike

    Spike Well-Known Member

    Pshaw. Everyone knows I want to cut Papa and sign Cooley as separate transactions!

    (Keep up the good work!)
  19. biltalent

    biltalent Well-Known Member

    While interpretating individual performance is very hard in summer league, you could see how we should run our offense in the future. In the first half we played high post offense with two bigs clogging the paint at all time. The guard passes the ball to the big in the post, the guard cuts through, and the big takes a contested, low efficient post up. Consequence: We're down 15.
    Midway through the third quarter: Coach March adjusts and subs in Sampson for Skal and Cooley is in for PapaG. With Sampson at the 4 our spacing immediately improves, even though Sampson cant shoot. But his man at least stays with him a bit. We change the offense and go to high pick and rolls. Suddenly it seems like every remembered how to play basketball. The guards get to the rim. The bigs get easy drop offs. The wings get open looks. We cut the deficit to 5.

    I was all in on using Cousins in the post and destroying people down low when he was here. But that doesnt fit our young core anymore. I'm hopeful Joerger knows this however. He showed it last year with Lawson leading the second unit.
  20. Ozymandias

    Ozymandias New Member

    I'll always remember Bellineli's first SL game where he dropped like 30 and made everythign and a board I was on pretty much crowning him the next Larry Bird.

    The SL when Josh Selby won Co-MVP was my favorite flash-in-the-pan performance though. He was actually destroying squads single-handedly.
  21. Ozymandias

    Ozymandias New Member


    I agree with much of this, some of it is too pessimistic though. Obviously this years going to be rough, they'll land another big time talent and the real test will be going into the 2018-2019 season with no draftpick to fall back on.
    Tetsujin likes this.
  22. fnordius

    fnordius Active Member

    Sometimes I wonder if half of SL play isn't determined by hangovers.
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  23. LPKingsFan

    LPKingsFan Well-Known Member

    Our team of 19 and 20 year olds needs a different excuse then :eek:;)
    andjel likes this.
  24. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Buddy is just being thrusted into the wrong role. He's going to excel in a JJ-Reddick type role imo. No one except maybe 2-3 users here expect Buddy to be anything more than your 3rd best player.

    In regards to Papa....I don't know what to say. It's obvious that he just isn't ready for the NBA. At best, you're hoping he becomes a Kosta Koufos type player. I think everyone knew Justin Jackson was more of a role player though. 3&D as long as he adds more weight. Mason was mad overrated.
    biltalent likes this.
  25. Kingsfan23

    Kingsfan23 Well-Known Member

    F for Mason. Backup PG should e been a strength to this SL team. Doesn't look NBA quality through two.
  26. pshn80

    pshn80 Well-Known Member

    Good "downer" post. We did pick these guys so they are outs. Trouble ahead was true and is true no matter who we picked. Anyone thinking we have the answers now with this bunch of inexperienced players was fooling themselves. Possibly a clue to this truth is the team's acquisition of vets including Dan Bog. It's one thing watching one or two newbies develop but when the number is more like 5 or 10 then it's hard times. lnteresting games so far.
    VF21 likes this.
  27. Ozymandias

    Ozymandias New Member

    As much as the depth and PG's of this draft class were hyped I can't help but think that Mason is no where near Tyler Ullis level, who was drafted in a similar spot last year.

    I'm trying real hard to reserve judgement though. I was negative in the pre-draft thread about him so I don't wanna keep hand-wringing.
  28. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    I think fans are valid in feeling concerned with the team's SL performances so far. Yes it's just SL, but this year SL is different for us. We have 8 legitimate NBA players on our SL compared to other teams who only have 1 or 2. On top of this, all 8 are supposed to be core pieces for our franchise. So when they stink it up in the SL and struggle as much as they do against GLeague talent, of course fans are going to be worried.

    The bright side of it all is that DeAaron Fox looks promising, and looks to be a potential franchise player. Buddy Hield has struggled shooting, but we know he's a good shooter. No reason to overreact to SL though. I think we've seen enough to know that Fox, Hield, and Skal are ready for NBA minutes. The rest aren't yet, but it'll be ok. We still have George Hill, Zach Randolph, WCS, Garett Temple, Kosta Koufos, and Vince Carter.
  29. VF21

    VF21 #KingsFansForever Staff Member Contributor

    Valid concerns aren't a problem. You have them, a number of posters have them. I personally think it's way too soon to be worried when all you've seen are 2 summer league games but you articulate your position and don't just make "Hield sucks" and "Papa G is a bum" comments. Those are the kind that I find objectionable.

    Bottom line? We (or at least the fans I know who agree with me on this) aren't expecting a lot of wins this year. We are well aware of the "tough times" ahead. The difference this time (at least for me) is that I have hope again, something I haven't had in quite a while.
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  30. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Frank Mason was overhyped x10. I was ok with the Kings picking him at 34, but got upset when I realized we passed on much more talented players. I don't think enough people watched Frank Mason enough at Kansas. The one thing I am disappointed in Mason is seeing how much he's chucking in the SL paired with his inability to breakdown defenses. He's going to spend a lot of next year in the GLeague. It's the 34th pick though, we can't be too mad at that. Most 2nd rounders never pan out anyways... (even though I thought there were much more talented players available at 34 including Semi Ojeleye, Ivan Rabb, Isaiah Hartenstein, Jawun Evans, Jordan Bell, Jonah Bolden, Thomas Byrant, and Damyean Dotson).
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