Future of Willie Cauley-Stein?

[ESP47]

The thing to remember about WCS is that his flaws and his inconsistency stand out A LOT on a bad team with no upper-tier talent. His development has been slow (and frustrating, I’m sure, for fans unlike myself who stayed plugged-in from game to game last season), but there seems to be some progress, and his production would be more valuable when his role isn’t magnified by the tremendous lack elsewhere on the roster.

If Fox, Hield, and Bogdanovic all take a step forward, if Giles proves to be a worthwhile contributor coming off his redshirt season, and if Bagley plays like a RoY candidate, then it’s easier to see Willie’s skills blending into the rotation, and easier to appreciate his contribution. He’s not a self-motivator. He’ll likely never be great because of it. But if he’s just a piece of the puzzle, there’s considerable utility there.

That said, I wouldn’t be inclined to give up on him just yet. I would however find an immediate trade partner for Zach Randolph, or make it clear that he won’t see much court time, at the very least. A rotation of Bagley, Giles, and WCS could be a strong one next season, with Koufos as the veteran safety valve whenever one of the young bigs hits a speed bump. But these guys are going to need minutes, and lots of them. It’s time for the Kings to see what they have, and it will be a lot harder to evaluate what they have if Randolph is eating up 25 mpg in the front court rotation.

I think WCS is one of the only tradeable pieces that we have that we're actually in line to give up and willing to give up. No one else other than Bagley/Fox/Bogie/Giles/Buddy have trade value and we certainly aren't giving them up.

We now have a huge stash of big men and a massive hole at SF that needs to be plugged. Trading WCS for a 3&D SF makes the most sense for the roster. When they announced we were trading our 2nd round pick to Portland last night, I was really hoping it was for Moe Harkless so we can get a still fairly young but useful guy to plug the hole in the roster but that didn't happen. Our options at the SF spot in free agency are very limited so I can't see us landing a player of value unless we trade WCS.

I just don't think there's any way to find a trading partner for ZBo. If you were a GM, would you want to trade for him? Maybe at the trade deadline if you were trying to unload a massive contract but at the point it wouldn't make sense for the Kings. No team is going to trade for ZBo for his on court play. He's dead weight at this point and his biggest danger to the team isn't his contract, it's the almost inevitable feeling that he's going to take very valuable minutes away from our young guys because Joerger needs guys he can "lean on". I'd rather see Koufos on the court because he plays more of a team game. Even if he's taking minutes away from a younger player, he's allowing the guards to further develop their games by running pick and roll actions and setting screens. ZBo might be a good guy to go up against in practice but he takes away their on court development during games because they don't develop any part of their skill sets with him out there.

 

[andjel]

I do not see a problem with the number of big man on the roster.

KK and Zach are expiring vets that can find home on a good team for their playoff and are not a part of the future.

Team has to have 3 bigs at least, so having 4 is not a biggie.

This is the year where future of WCS with the Kings has to be decided.

 

[SacTownKid]

I do not see a problem with the number of big man on the roster.

KK and Zach are expiring vets that can find home on a good team for their playoff and are not a part of the future.

Team has to have 3 bigs at least, so having 4 is not a biggie.

This is the year where future of WCS with the Kings has to be decided.

4 is probably too much unless you expect the 4th to be minor minute depth. If Bagley gets time at SF like Vlade seems to think he can then it will help. I don't know how well the team will do but it's probably the only solution at this time. If their answer is to divvy up the minutes evenly like they did last year and platoon then prepare for more diminished value and players that again just don't seem to light up the league scoring 13 ppg. You either cut one out and keep a higher value on the others or watch them all sink to the median. And that's all assuming you never see Zbo and Kosta play. The real nightmare going into next season is potentially watching 6 bigs rotate in and out.

 

[Blob]

I don't see any team wanting trade for Willie unless they are wanting to get rid of a bad contract. I think it would be great if we could swing a deal for Capella if the Rockets need to create space to sign LeBron and CP3. That's THREE max contracts to go with Harden. So how could they possibly give a max contract to Capella too? If we max out Capella, then pawn off Willie and even Koufos to give the Rockets some bigs maybe they would be amenable? It is a long shot but I hope it is something we are exploring. I think Randle become untenable with Bagley. So does Gordon. Rodney Hood and Mario H should be our wing targets. I really like Hood if he can get healthy. Regardless we need to clear out our glut of bigs. I would hope a buyout of Koufos and/or Z-Bo is considered too. In Vlade Brandon I Trust.

 

[Blob]

KK and Zach are expiring vets that can find home on a good team for their playoff and are not a part of the future.

Name me one team that wants these guys. I don't see it unless they are sending bad contracts to us.

 

[andjel]

4 is probably too much unless you expect the 4th to be minor minute depth. If Bagley gets time at SF like Vlade seems to think he can then it will help. I don't know how well the team will do but it's probably the only solution at this time. If their answer is to divvy up the minutes evenly like they did last year and platoon then prepare for more diminished value and players that again just don't seem to light up the league scoring 13 ppg. You either cut one out and keep a higher value on the others or watch them all sink to the median. And that's all assuming you never see Zbo and Kosta play. The real nightmare going into next season is potentially watching 6 bigs rotate in and out.

I do not see Giles or Bagley getting a ton of minutes first half of the season, and then they will get whatever KK and Zach were getting.

The competition between WCS, Giles, Bagley and Skal will make 3 winners for playing time. If Skal or WCS are losers for playing time, trade.

 

[andjel]

Name me one team that wants these guys. I don't see it unless they are sending bad contracts to us.

Name me teams that have better back up center than KK for playoff style of game.
I do not see most of the playoff teams not being willing to give second round pick for either of them.

 

[VF21]

the majority of us dont want his butt here either, so its mutual. he has had chance after chance at this point, so good riddance.

Really? Did I miss a poll?

 

[SacTownKid]

I do not see Giles or Bagley getting a ton of minutes first half of the season, and then they will get whatever KK and Zach were getting.

The competition between WCS, Giles, Bagley and Skal will make 3 winners for playing time. If Skal or WCS are losers for playing time, trade.

A number 2 pick sitting in favor of Zbo and Kosta? The Joerger bomb starts ticking right at that moment.

 

[Kingsfan23]

In Joerger interview with Carmichael Dave this morning, the tone didn’t sound like he was in the plans

When asked about Bagley/Giles fit he thought they could fit, but also said there would be some competition, namely from Skal (no mention of WCS). Said by the third year players need to show the organization something and they want players who love basketball. When asked about the upcoming rotation Joerger said if it’s Bagley/Harry in the future they need to be on the floor together (naming them as the fore it seemed)

I’d personally move WCS outright for cap, but then I’ve thought he was a lost cause for a long time. But, I think if they had their druthers he wouldn’t be here next season

 

[NewArena]

Seriously??? This is what it has come to? And I’m not picking just on you. While the premise of the thread is reasonable (what happens to WCS now that we have Bagley and Giles), some of the content is ridiculous. Apparently some on this board need someone to HATE and vehemently attack. I love when people respond and say, “this is an internet message board, this is how it is.” I belong to a lot of other message boards for my teams in other sports and college, and on no other board do I see some of the members so gleefully flame and eat their own players.

Willie isn’t Deandre Jordan or Joel Embiid. But he is far from a bum, or a lemon, or a bust, as has been suggested in this thread. He is a third year player who averaged 13/7/2.5 with a steal and a block per game in 28 minutes. That is above average production for a young guy with still some growing to do. Does he sometimes disappear and lack intensity, yes, but he has also improved scoring, rebounding and assists in each season. I think giving up on him as though he has no role in the league is a huge mistake.

But I guess now that Boogie is gone, Hill is gone, and the Doncic fantasy is over, we need someone to be the “problem” and someone that we can just flame from behind anonymous accounts.

There is no hate though. And he isnt some problem child or cancer, NOR is he a bum, which is precisely why im done with him. He has all of the tools, opportunities and resources at his disposal, but he's beyond inconsistent, doesn't keep his head in the game, and has this delusion of being some offensive one man show/juggernaut that he simply will never ever be. Imagine if he focused on rebounding, actually boxing out and using that athleticism to block some shots consistently.

Yea... sure would be nice. Time to let go, that's all. Doesn't mean we hate him and want him to fail wherever he ends up after this, but do we need to hold on to every single player that doesn't meet expectations and work hard enough just to say we're really nice people and did everything we could? This is pro basketball and it doesn't work like that.

 

[NewArena]

In Joerger interview with Carmichael Dave this morning, the tone didn’t sound like he was in the plans

When asked about Bagley/Giles fit he thought they could fit, but also said there would be some competition, namely from Skal (no mention of WCS). Said by the third year players need to show the organization something and they want players who love basketball. When asked about the upcoming rotation Joerger said if it’s Bagley/Harry in the future they need to be on the floor together (naming them as the fore it seemed)

I’d personally move WCS outright for cap, but then I’ve thought he was a lost cause for a long time. But, I think if they had their druthers he wouldn’t be here next season

hmmm gonna listen to the interview now, but i like what i'm hearing already.

 

[NewArena]

yeesh....

Willie has a contract year to go... He's RESTRICTED... Lets see what happens. This team is gonna run, he's built for that....

Marvin is not the starting C... the Kings will get dunked on a lot if he is...

The Kings have no 2019 pick... Trading Willie now for pennies on the dollar would be cutting off your nose to spite your face..

Bagley is a PF and Giles is a center, right? WCS isn't some rim protecting beast either, so im not understanding this take. But i do agree, trading him for pennies doesn't make sense until we see what the plans are come July and beyond.

 

[NewArena]

Definitely do not trade WCS. If anything I think this all means we should be shopping ZBO and KK. ZBO is a nice expiring which hopefully will net something and KK is a steady vet. That leaves us with WCS and Giles for our C rotation.

yikes, i forgot about ZBO. he definitely has to go as well

 

[Ozymandias]

Bagley is a PF and Giles is a center, right? WCS isn't some rim protecting beast either, so im not understanding this take. But i do agree, trading him for pennies doesn't make sense until we see what the plans are come July and beyond.

No.. This is how it is, there seems to be some confusion;


Bagley is a PF / C, but not a true PF/C in the way Anthony Davis is, where he can start at either position. Bagley is a starting PF and a backup/matchup-based C.

Harry Giles is more of a 'tweener' at this stage but ultimately also a PF/C - he might be a bit more of a possibility to start at C, Not this season though - he needs to add much strength.

WCS is a C/PF. The real key is that these 3 players posses the lateral quickness to hedge and recover on the perimeter.

Skal is also a 'tweener' PF / C but his minutes at C should be the lowest priority of the 4.

The situation is quite flexible.

 

[206Fan]

1) Trade him to the Clippers

Kings: Tobias Harris and Boban Marjanovic
Clippers: WCS and Skal Labissiere

This gives the Clippers the youth movement they want. DeAndre Jordan might opt out this year, and they only have 1 other big man on this team..Boban. This trades give them WCS who would be an ideal fit next to their PG Gilgeous-Alexander. They also get Skal's potential for whatever it's worth. If they wanted, I would throw in Justin Jackson too. Kings get a legitimate SF in Tobias Harris(18ppg last year). He's only a 1yr contract, but could resign if the Kings give him stability. He's been on 3 different teams in the last 3 years. He's only 1 month older than Bogdan turning 26 in July.


2) Trade him to the Wizards

Kings: Kelly Oubre
Wizards: WCS

Wizards need a legitimate big man. Gortat doesn't like Wall. Mahmini is a backup C. Plus, they just drafted Troy Brown Jr at #15 who's a SF. Oubre is on the very last year of his contract as is Willie. The swap makes a lot of sense.

 

[VF21]

If WCS is as bad as some want to paint him, how are you going to convince either the Clippers or the Wizards to make the deal?

 

[206Fan]

If WCS is as bad as some want to paint him, how are you going to convince either the Clippers or the Wizards to make the deal?

I don't think he's bad. He just doesn't fit on the team and he's going to command 10mpy+ on the open market. He's a guy who would fit like a glove on a team as their 4th or 5th best player. That's exactly what he would do with other teams in the league. No one is going to force him to initiate an offense nor create his own shot. He'd be limited to what we saw in his rookie year in addition to hitting PnP jumpers. He's also a player who has the lateral quickness for switches.

If Willie was willing to come off the bench long-term, then it would be perfect. I don't think he'd be happy in that role.

 

[VF21]

I don't think he's bad. He just doesn't fit on the team and he's going to command 10mpy+ on the open market. He's a guy who would fit like a glove on a team as their 4th or 5th best player. That's exactly what he would do with other teams in the league. No one is going to force him to initiate an offense nor create his own shot. He'd be limited to what we saw in his rookie year in addition to hitting PnP jumpers. He's also a player who has the lateral quickness for switches.

If Willie was willing to come off the bench long-term, then it would be perfect. I don't think he'd be happy in that role.

1. I haven't quite given up completely as yet.

2. I think you're entirely right.

 

[roasthawg]

In Joerger interview with Carmichael Dave this morning, the tone didn’t sound like he was in the plans

When asked about Bagley/Giles fit he thought they could fit, but also said there would be some competition, namely from Skal (no mention of WCS). Said by the third year players need to show the organization something and they want players who love basketball. When asked about the upcoming rotation Joerger said if it’s Bagley/Harry in the future they need to be on the floor together (naming them as the fore it seemed)

I’d personally move WCS outright for cap, but then I’ve thought he was a lost cause for a long time. But, I think if they had their druthers he wouldn’t be here next season

Nice post, I'm a wcs fan but definitely sounds like he's on his way out. Not expecting him to be around after comments like that from coach.

 

[Sac.Kings]

No.. This is how it is, there seems to be some confusion;


Bagley is a PF / C, but not a true PF/C in the way Anthony Davis is, where he can start at either position. Bagley is a starting PF and a backup/matchup-based C.

Harry Giles is more of a 'tweener' at this stage but ultimately also a PF/C - he might be a bit more of a possibility to start at C, Not this season though - he needs to add much strength.

WCS is a C/PF. The real key is that these 3 players posses the lateral quickness to hedge and recover on the perimeter.

Skal is also a 'tweener' PF / C but his minutes at C should be the lowest priority of the 4.

The situation is quite flexible.

Giles has been working out for a year straight, at least. He probably is much stronger already.

 

[Kingster]

1) Trade him to the Clippers

Kings: Tobias Harris and Boban Marjanovic
Clippers: WCS and Skal Labissiere

This gives the Clippers the youth movement they want. DeAndre Jordan might opt out this year, and they only have 1 other big man on this team..Boban. This trades give them WCS who would be an ideal fit next to their PG Gilgeous-Alexander. They also get Skal's potential for whatever it's worth. If they wanted, I would throw in Justin Jackson too. Kings get a legitimate SF in Tobias Harris(18ppg last year). He's only a 1yr contract, but could resign if the Kings give him stability. He's been on 3 different teams in the last 3 years. He's only 1 month older than Bogdan turning 26 in July.


2) Trade him to the Wizards

Kings: Kelly Oubre
Wizards: WCS

Wizards need a legitimate big man. Gortat doesn't like Wall. Mahmini is a backup C. Plus, they just drafted Troy Brown Jr at #15 who's a SF. Oubre is on the very last year of his contract as is Willie. The swap makes a lot of sense.

You beat me to it! I was listening to a recap of the draft on the nba channel and an announcer was talking about the Wizards needing a more athletic big man who could roll to the basket and get lobs from Wall. They don't have any cap room and can't afford the big names. WCS and Oubre both have their pluses and minuses at this point and seem at least reasonably close in value. Bingo! I sure hope the Kings pursue this deal.

 

[Showtime]

His comments a season or two ago worry me about him wanting to get more involved offensively. Dude, you're a legit 7 footer who wants to expand his game? Great, but that typically means you're competent enough in a couple of other areas first before you "expand" your game. You have to have established a game before you expand upon it.

In his third year, his rebounding % is 14. That puts him 34th in the league...of 30 teams. Meaning, each team has at least one, and some more, better rebounding players than him. Yikes. He has never averaged double-digit boards yet in his career.

I would much rather see a guy like Tyson Chandler who at his best was a 12/12/ player with a couple blocks a game. WCS is far more offensively gifted than Tyson, but TC knew his role and didn't try to be something he wasn't. TC was a fantastic defensive force at his best and solid rebounder who was able to exert his influence around the rim. We needed that kind of player and WCS, while having all the physical tools to do it, never focused on that area of his game. And for that, I'd say we should probably deal him for something in return if the team isn't interested in retaining him. Letting him walk for nothing is bush league. Why bother keeping a 7 foot big with long wingspan who can't manage to grab more than 7 boards a game and can't average more than 1 block a game, but also can't spread the floor? He's basically everything you don't want in a big. If your big isn't going to play well inside, then he damn sure better be able to spread the floor and hit 3's.

 

[macadocious]

1) Trade him to the Clippers

Kings: Tobias Harris and Boban Marjanovic
Clippers: WCS and Skal Labissiere

This gives the Clippers the youth movement they want. DeAndre Jordan might opt out this year, and they only have 1 other big man on this team..Boban. This trades give them WCS who would be an ideal fit next to their PG Gilgeous-Alexander. They also get Skal's potential for whatever it's worth. If they wanted, I would throw in Justin Jackson too. Kings get a legitimate SF in Tobias Harris(18ppg last year). He's only a 1yr contract, but could resign if the Kings give him stability. He's been on 3 different teams in the last 3 years. He's only 1 month older than Bogdan turning 26 in July.


2) Trade him to the Wizards

Kings: Kelly Oubre
Wizards: WCS

Wizards need a legitimate big man. Gortat doesn't like Wall. Mahmini is a backup C. Plus, they just drafted Troy Brown Jr at #15 who's a SF. Oubre is on the very last year of his contract as is Willie. The swap makes a lot of sense.

I'd trade half the team to get Tobias and Boban!

 

[NewArena]

I'd trade half the team to get Tobias and Boban!

Lol whoa, idk about all that

 

[macadocious]

Lol whoa, idk about all that

You're right, they probably wouldn't do that. 3/5 of the team!

 

[BigVirg]

You beat me to it! I was listening to a recap of the draft on the nba channel and an announcer was talking about the Wizards needing a more athletic big man who could roll to the basket and get lobs from Wall. They don't have any cap room and can't afford the big names. WCS and Oubre both have their pluses and minuses at this point and seem at least reasonably close in value. Bingo! I sure hope the Kings pursue this deal.

who do you think the wizards would be more likely to trade? Porter and that whale of a contract or Oubre?

 

[OvechKiN]

I thought I saw on Twitter today that John Wall said that the Wizards need an athletic big man.....

WCS + JJ + Temple
for
Otto Porter

 

[Kingster]

who do you think the wizards would be more likely to trade? Porter and that whale of a contract or Oubre?

Oubre. I heard that the Wizards want an athletic center who can get lobs off the pick and roll. They don't have cap room to get Capela and they are redundant at the SF position with Porter as the starter. If the Kings would trade WCS for Oubre and Satoransky the salaries match up close enough to be acceptable according to trade checker.

 

[Kingster]

If WCS is as bad as some want to paint him, how are you going to convince either the Clippers or the Wizards to make the deal?

He's fast, he's got great potential but just hasn't found himself yet. He'll be fantastic getting lobs off the pick and roll from Wall, he can switch off and guard smaller players. We asked him to do too much. He's still young and there is a lot of room to grow. There's your sales pitch. Now go trade him!