Front office - who's in charge? (split)

dude12

Hall of Famer
#1
It would be nice to know the behind the scenes dynamics instead of reading between the lines of tweets and here say. What we do know is that the FO has continually said it needed to change the culture....that part is fact. The FO is not going to come right out and say that this guy is selfish or that guy is not a team player, etc. All they are going to say once a player is traded or moves on is that the player(s) have been professional and thank them.

It sure appears that the team chemistry has been broken for awhile and that the best way to fix it is to get rid of most of the existing roster they took over. It sure seems that IT2 had to go. Besides the on the court dynamics, it sure appears to me that IT2 and his ego had to just go. I don't know where JT falls into this but he is the last piece (Cuz isn't going anywhere) from that culture that may have to go.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#2
This gerbil thing really needs to stop.
Oh he's going to take care of it for me. He's about 1 more losing season from getting his underqualified ass fired. Unfortunately as likely as not to be replaced by Chris Mullin who appears to have strapped himself to Vivek's hip. Nonetheless he's done absolutely nothing to deserve anyone's particular respect. Unfortunately for him, I don't know that he is entirely in control of the situation to fix things. I have ?? over several decisions made in his tenure, about how much he is to blame, or how much he is to credit. There is a Maloofian air of too many cooks hovering over our decisionmaking crew. Go back and watch the vid of the idiots dancing around when they drafted McLemore. Notice the one guy who isn't? Watch the vid of this recent draft with Stauskas. Notice the hesitation? Landry may have been Malone's idea. This Golden State fetish would surely be coming from Vivek/Mullin, not PDA, who came out of Denver. etc. When there are reports that we are looking around the league for either a shotblocker or a stretch 4 to put next to Cousins...that's a very odd thing for a single individual to target. Two wildly different visions. Would not surprise me if those two visions belong to two different factions in the front office. not sure which one is PDA, and which one is the coach or Golden State boys. In any case gerbil was wildly unqualified to suddenly get a random promotion. He wasn't even expecting the hire. The thought has occurred to me more than once that that may have been done on purpose to create a weak GM/set up a decionmaking cabal including the owner, his "advisors", the coach the owner hired, and then the GM. That's done all the time. You want to be hands off, you hire a big hitter who runs things like he owns the team, in dictatorial fashion. You want to have a say/meddle? You hire somebody underqualified who is aware of the weakness of their position and will not dare to make moves without your sanction. In which case BTW Pete has my sympathy. Few things suck worse than being led down a path to failure that is going to land on your lap, and not having the power to change it.

In any case, this next move is the one that could get the rodent off his resume...or could seal his fate as a temporary phenomenon quietly demoted back to basement stats geek/cap specialist. The shotblcoker/defender. The guy who is going to have to serve as defensive catalyst. I have been saying for weeks I strongly suspect gerbil is trying to do something big back there, and it could change our fate considerably, for good or ill. Just don't know if we have the pieces left that anyone will play along, which BTW again returns to the poor planning stages.
 
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#3
Since the begin of PDA's reign weve replaced positions 1-3. We know Cousins is our franchise player. That leaves only one position in need of a change. Any guesses as to which position? Any guesses as to what the need is at that position? Its no secret. Everyone has been screaming for it. Build it and they will come!
 
#4
A challenge for me is that I believe in his heart PDA wanted Peyton, yet Stauskas is looking like a wonderful draft pick. I don't know whether to give PDA credit if Stauskas is a solid hit. I think I will.
This is a possibility if Staukas was ranked highly and if Pete's staff liked him at #8. Perhaps Vivek and Malone wanted Staukas also. I just know that defense starts on the guard line and the Kings do not have a strong defender at any guard spot as of right now.
Oh he's going to take care of it for me. He's about 1 more losing season from getting his underqualified ass fired. Unfortunately as likely as not to be replaced by Chris Mullin who appears to have strapped himself to Vivek's hip. Nonetheless he's done absolutely nothing to deserve anyone's particular respect. Unfortunately for him, I don't know that he is entirely in control of the situation to fix things. I have ?? over several decisions made in his tenure, about how much he is to blame, or how much he is to credit. There is a Maloofian air of too many cooks hovering over our decisionmaking crew. Go back and watch the vid of the idiots dancing around when they drafted McLemore. Notice the one guy who isn't? Watch the vid of this recent draft with Stauskas. Notice the hesitation? Landry may have been Malone's idea. This Golden State fetish would surely be coming from Vivek/Mullin, not PDA, who came out of Denver. etc. When there are reports that we are looking around the league for either a shotblocker or a stretch 4 to put next to Cousins...that's a very odd thing for a single individual to target. Two wildly different visions. Would not surprise me if those two visions belong to two different factions in the front office. not sure which one is PDA, and which one is the coach or Golden State boys. In any case gerbil was wildly unqualified to suddenly get a random promotion. He wasn't even expecting the hire. The thought has occurred to me more than once that that may have been done on purpose to create a weak GM/set up a decionmaking cabal including the owner, his "advisors", the coach the owner hired, and then the GM. That's done all the time. You want to be hands off, you hire a big hitter who runs things like he owns the team, in dictatorial fashion. You want to have a say/meddle? You hire somebody underqualified who is aware of the weakness of their position and will not dare to make moves without your sanction. In which case BTW Pete has my sympathy. Few things suck worse than being led down a path to failure that is going to land on your lap, and not having the power to change it.

In any case, this next move is the one that could get the rodent off his resume...or could seal his fate as a temporary phenomenon quietly demoted back to basement stats geek/cap specialist. The shotblcoker/defender. The guy who is going to have to serve as defensive catalyst. I have been saying for weeks I strongly suspect gerbil is trying to do something big back there, and it could change our fate considerably, for good or ill. Just don't know if we have the pieces left that anyone will play along, which BTW again returns to the poor planning stages.
So you think Pete secretly wanted Tony Snell and Elfrid Payton in these last two drafts but was too afraid to voice his opinion as GM?
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#5
I have no idea who he wanted last draft. Just noting nuances in body language that make more sense in light of subsequent developments. He was new then too. Highly unlikely he would come in as a nobody on a surprise hire and look to buck his boss, or even have a strong enough opinion to want to, 1 week into his tenure.

This last time though, yeah, I think there is a significant chance. At the very least I don't think his is or will be the last word that ends all debates when he weighs in. That shouldn't be twisted into he hates Stauskas. But its entirely within reason to wonder what would have happened if he were in the war room alone when that decision came up. And if that's true you can spin that multiple different ways. Way 1: he wanted Payton because he knew/was the one pressing to move on from IT. Way 2: he wanted Payton because he is the big BMac supporter and realized it would be his end with us. Way 3: he wanted Payton because he is actually the defensive voice of the group, and Vivek/Mullin are the offensive shoot first Nellie guys. Any or all could be right, or none might. But there is a distinct possibility there, thus a reluctance by myself to go all in on blaming him for the way that night worked out. or, if it works out well btw, of crediting him if it wasn't all his idea.
 
#6
a lot of this is just sifting through the rubble in the aftermath. you're not going to find anything that's truly illuminating amongst the hyperbole, especially with how conjecture is being volleyed about. isaiah thomas was a "fan favorite" who was also derided by many. some are deeply upset at the loss of their favorite player; others are rejoicing in his absence. but the muckraking has kinda spun outta control at kf.com. we have a name for that around these parts, of course. it's The Dreaded Off-Season. still, i think many are vastly overestimating the circumstances surrounding isaiah thomas' departure...

IT is gone from sacramento for two primary reasons, and #1 is simply basketball-related: on-court chemistry was an issue when starting thomas alongside demarcus cousins and rudy gay. i've noted repeatedly since greivous vasquez and co. were traded for gay that starting three ball dominant 20 ppg scorers, none of whom are elite-level playmakers or defenders, was problematic for balance and team-wide chemistry. look at the entire history of the nba and you'll find little long-term success from such a roster construction. look at the more recent history of the nba, and you'll find nobody fool enough to try and construct a team so ludicrously top-heavy in its scoring distribution and so lacking in both its playmaking ability and its defensive ability...

recent "big three" configurations in san antonio, boston, and miami had experienced playmakers and defenders among them, as well as a willingness to defer to both their teammates and the gameplan at large. they also had top-tier head coaches who commanded respect from those marquee talents. these "big three"s worked in each instance because they were so much more than a trio of guys who could put the ball in the hoop. such was not the case in sacramento, and it's dangerous to bet the future on a particular "core" after completing a 28-win season in a brutally tough conference...

so why not bring thomas back as a sixth man, where he'd obviously cede more ground to cousins and gay? well, that brings us to reason #2 for why IT is no longer a king: he was always going to be an expensive acquisition in the specific role of sixth man. 4/$28 million is a lot for a bench player under the new CBA, even one as valuable as thomas. this is especially true after the carl landry signing. IT's biggest fans should rightfully point to that signing and complain that it doomed the kings to lose thomas this offseason. you can pay one player that kinda money to come off the bench for you; paying two guys that kinda money to come off the bench is just poor cap management, particularly if you're a losing team that's still attempting to solidify its starting unit...

the fact is that the kings priced themselves out of the market by playing thomas big time minutes in a starting job last season, allowing him to run wild in that job, while also failing to shorten his leash at any moment after granting him that job. that showed a tremendous lack of discipline on their part, and they were either unable or unwilling to move thomas at the trade deadline, which would have represented a more ideal scenario. now, given the realities of a worst case scenario, the kings ultimately decided that they didn't want to tie up a buncha salary (thus pushing themselves across the luxury tax threshold) to bring back an undersized, non-defensive, ball dominant PG, no matter how impressive his individual numbers were, no matter how hard he competes, no matter how much the fans love him, and no matter how much grant and jerry fawn over him...

the fact is that the team notched only 28 wins last season, and you don't go all-in on a trio of big-time scorers if you aren't absolutely sure that your win total will improve dramatically with time. demarcus cousins isn't going anywhere, and rudy gay appears to be a part of the kings' immediate future, as well. thus IT was clearly the odd man out. i know there has been a lot of talk in the last couple of months about how the kings were right around .500 with a "core" or a so-called "big three" of cousins/gay/thomas. and while .500 is certainly better than the .341 win percentage the kings finished with, it's not exactly world-beating stuff in the western conference, and there were always legitimate questions about the sustainability of such a pace. again, you're not going to get very far with a top-heavy, offensively-inclined set of players who have limited defensive and playmaking abilites. not in the west; there's a ceiling on such a team's development, and you need more balance on both sides of the ball than the kings were likely to achieve with a cousins/gay/thomas configuration...

ultimately, i don't think PDA was looking at a disappointingly inept ben mclemore, a lame duck jason thompson, and a woefully thin bench and thinking to himself, "boy, i sure wish cousins, gay, and thomas would pass to this collection of underachieving misfits." i think PDA was imagining his ideal roster (whatever that is), constructed around demarcus cousins and rudy gay, and he came to the conclusion that he couldn't make room for other players in the offense of his imagination with isaiah thomas dominating the ball as he is wont to do. cousins and gay will dominate the ball enough by themselves; but they're also willing passers, and with a shifting culture and the right kind of personnel decisions, this team might become a much more respectable haven for ball movement. thomas simply could not fit in such a starting unit, and he commanded more money than the kings could justify to bring him off the bench. it's not much more complicated than that, if you ask me...
 
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funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#7
So you think Pete secretly wanted Tony Snell and Elfrid Payton in these last two drafts but was too afraid to voice his opinion as GM?
I know I did. Last offseason I said I hoped that Burke fell to the Kings spot and that the Kings dealt the #7 for the Jazz's #14 and #21 to target Snell and either Nogueira or Dieng. As it turns out the T'Wolves made that deal and took Shabazz Muhammed and Dieng.

And this year Payton was my draft crush.

Personally I'd much rather have this:

Thomas/Payton (with Payton hopefully pushing to be the starter by season's end)
Snell/cheap veteran (Morrow? Marshon Brooks?)
Gay/Williams
Dieng/Acy
Cousins/Thompson

than the roster we have now. Especially since the Kings would still have the expiring contracts of Derrick Williams, Travis Outlaw and Jason Terry to swing another deal with.
 
#8
I have no idea who he wanted last draft. Just noting nuances in body language that make more sense in light of subsequent developments. He was new then too. Highly unlikely he would come in as a nobody on a surprise hire and look to buck his boss, or even have a strong enough opinion to want to, 1 week into his tenure.

This last time though, yeah, I think there is a significant chance. At the very least I don't think his is or will be the last word that ends all debates when he weighs in. That shouldn't be twisted into he hates Stauskas. But its entirely within reason to wonder what would have happened if he were in the war room alone when that decision came up. And if that's true you can spin that multiple different ways. Way 1: he wanted Payton because he knew/was the one pressing to move on from IT. Way 2: he wanted Payton because he is the big BMac supporter and realized it would be his end with us. Way 3: he wanted Payton because he is actually the defensive voice of the group, and Vivek/Mullin are the offensive shoot first Nellie guys. Any or all could be right, or none of crediting him if it wasn't all his idea.
I think you're on the right track here. PDA did not seem at peace with either of those draft choices in the war room. It even appeared that there was some angst. There could be any number of reasons for that. However, I look at the Vivek/Mullin dynamic and how that could affect a GM. I don't think any big time GM would take the job with Mullin as an advisor to the owner. If the GM is not THE advisor to the owner on personnel decisions, then he is not in a position to be a strong GM.

Since we don't know what's going on behind closed doors, it's all speculation and educated guesses. I'm sure PDA is a smart, capable man, but I also wonder if he's not working with one hand behind his back. I've said this before and got ripped, but I don't want my owner in the war room on draft day. There is nothing to be gained, and a whole lot that could go wrong.
 
#9
Wait, are we basing all this off the short video from Grantland? I'm sure that hardly paints a complete picture.

In any case, I am sure that Vivek is going to have a role in personnel decisions. It was part of his reasoning for leaving the GSW ownership group to get a team of his own, and part of his conditions for taking over the ownership group (that was, at the time, more about Burkle and Mastrov, if I recall correctly). It is what it is at this point, and I just have to resign myself to thinking that his positive contributions in keeping the Kings in Sacramento, developing a world class arena, and keeping the Kings as a generally well-run franchise outweigh any negatives from his input in the player personnel decision making process.
 
#10
Yes it appears Nellie is going to continue to haunt me by using his powers on the Vivek/Mullin duo and try to replicate the GSW:)

I love Staukas and his sweet jump shot as much as the next BB fan. At some point though most playoff teams need tough hard nosed defensive players. The Kings need somebody on the wing that can get in a players grill. I'm talking an Artest or Allen type if you team is not blessed with great two way players. Somebody in the paint to erase the mistakes is needed also.
 
#11
I think you're on the right track here. PDA did not seem at peace with either of those draft choices in the war room. It even appeared that there was some angst. There could be any number of reasons for that. However, I look at the Vivek/Mullin dynamic and how that could affect a GM. I don't think any big time GM would take the job with Mullin as an advisor to the owner. If the GM is not THE advisor to the owner on personnel decisions, then he is not in a position to be a strong GM.

Since we don't know what's going on behind closed doors, it's all speculation and educated guesses. I'm sure PDA is a smart, capable man, but I also wonder if he's not working with one hand behind his back. I've said this before and got ripped, but I don't want my owner in the war room on draft day. There is nothing to be gained, and a whole lot that could go wrong.
There could be a power struggle going on internally between Mullin and PDA. Makes me wonder who's decision was it to not re-sign Evans and Thomas. Makes me nervous that we have conflicting philosophies in the front office.
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#12
I'll say the same thing about PDA that I did about Petrie. If you don't have final say on roster matters then you need to decide whether you're okay having a job title and cashing a paycheck or if you value your reputation and have the self respect to move on.

GMs who let owners meddle will find themselves fired by those same owners when the moves don't work out. Succeed or fail based on your own moves and decisions, not someone else's.

So while I have no idea how much influence guys like Mullin, Malone and Ranadive have, I'm going to attribute every move, good or bad, to D'Alessandro alone. Because they really are his decision or he's making the decision to let other people interfere with what should be his purview. Either way, he's the GM and he's responsible.
 
#13
What's funny is that you got guys from Sactown Royalty claiming he's the most popular king ever even more than Chris Webber lol. I can't believe we're making that BIG of a deal over Isaiah Thomas. It boogles my mind.
It is odd how polarizing a figure IT is. One thing I'm grateful from this FO is that they are not afraid to make a decision, regardless of what the fans say or think.
 
#14
Oh he's going to take care of it for me. He's about 1 more losing season from getting his underqualified ass fired. Unfortunately as likely as not to be replaced by Chris Mullin who appears to have strapped himself to Vivek's hip. Nonetheless he's done absolutely nothing to deserve anyone's particular respect. Unfortunately for him, I don't know that he is entirely in control of the situation to fix things. I have ?? over several decisions made in his tenure, about how much he is to blame, or how much he is to credit. There is a Maloofian air of too many cooks hovering over our decisionmaking crew. Go back and watch the vid of the idiots dancing around when they drafted McLemore. Notice the one guy who isn't? Watch the vid of this recent draft with Stauskas. Notice the hesitation? Landry may have been Malone's idea. This Golden State fetish would surely be coming from Vivek/Mullin, not PDA, who came out of Denver. etc. When there are reports that we are looking around the league for either a shotblocker or a stretch 4 to put next to Cousins...that's a very odd thing for a single individual to target. Two wildly different visions. Would not surprise me if those two visions belong to two different factions in the front office. not sure which one is PDA, and which one is the coach or Golden State boys. In any case gerbil was wildly unqualified to suddenly get a random promotion.
Yes. I was super excited the team was staying and wrote off the Landry move as an overpay but 'culture move,' figured McLemore was the best player on the board despite his massive slide, hoped the Williams trade was a reasonable gamble with a big chunk of 2014-15 cap space. At this point, the overall cap management, talent evaluation, and strategy of front office has me scratching my head and raising a few red flags. I'm not sure anybody needs to be fired yet, but I agree we might be 4-12 months away from PDA and Mullin wildly making moves designed to save their jobs that will cripple the Kings ability to compete for several years.

I'm concerned it's more collaborative then you think Brick. PDA and Mullin worked together in Golden State. They weren't great then. They might be botching it here. They've got an owner who doesn't know any better, likes and trusts those guys, and really wants to win now despite a limited talent base and cap flexibility in a stacked west. Might even be worse if they are all sure they've got this all figured out together as they cluelessly drive it off a cliff?

Perhaps I'm wrong and this is what it to slowly turn the Titanic around. But, it sure seems like owner doesn't know any better as PDA and Mullin clutter up a roster that is improved but ultimately over the next 2-3 years is unable to crack the playoffs, ad an major impact player via the draft, or make another big move to prevent another reboot with another GM.

We've missed the playoffs for 8 season. I don't want to be starting over in season 10 because or GM and advisor were bad and our owner was too green to either sniff it out or stop the damage.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
#15
From listening to PDA and Vivek during after the draft, they both were saying that Malone had been watching Stauskas for most of the college year....he might have been the biggest proponent of Stauskas initially.

After watching Stauskas for 2 SL games, he's better than I thought he would be but I also think my worries about his defense may be correct. I think when they get to the real games, he may get exposed more. Like a lot of his game though. But I still would have preferred Payton, sign a vet like Morrow who went for 3yrs/9 to start at SG. And if you still signed Collison, then Payton could be broken in slowly. But it doesn't matter at this point. Stauskas is the guy going forward.

I think the FO is on the same page for the most part.
 
#16
based on oberserving their intractions Vivek seems to be very loyal to all of these guys I get the impression that he would have a very difficult time firing them or at least he might hang on to them for too long, in turn I think Vivek's friendlieness makes it harder for Pete to say No or tell Vivek and his advisors to butt out.

On the Vivek being in the war room issue I think he is around the FO too much in general and thats only based on the little bit we see on camera. I dont see any other owner FO combo together so much.
 
#17
It would have been nice if we have "stated strongly and clearly" our opinion beforehand and not wiggled around our purportedly "I'm right about it".

Some of us who don't want Stauskas now didn't even state strongly who we really want instead of him.

Some of us who don't want McLemore now didn't even state strongly who we want instead of him.

I can still remember when Thomas Robinson was selected by the Kings. Some of us want Andre Drummond, but we didn't have the balls to insists strongly on drafting him in this board.

Yeah, it is really easy to criticize strongly after everything became clear and right after it happened.

But where were we before the decision?

Wiggling around with so many double meaning post of what we really meant and want. Oh well, I guess that is the smarter way of making ourselves look like a basketball genius.
 
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#18
While relevant to any assessment of the judgment or eye of the speaker, I don't think accurate predictions of future events are necessarly a prerequisite to actually having a valid or correct assessment of past events.
 
#19
The McLemore draft seems to really be the one where so many are saying it was bad didn't have anybody better in mind at the time.

McLemore may not turn into a good player but the pick was correct. All of the experts/pundits gave the Kings an 'A' for drafting McLemore. He was the consensus "best player available" when they made their pick. I remember browsing the board here and after Noel was picked a spot prior most members here were happy or at least satisfied with McLemore.

Sometimes you make the obvious correct choice and it just doesn't work.......it's called life it happens.

With Stauskas there at least is another consensus name that many feel they could or should have taken in Payton. Even the front office thought it was close, so that may turn out to he a move where you can look back and say they chose wrong because we knew ahead of time what a viable Plan B was. With McLemore there wasn't a viable Plan B at the time he was picked.
 
#20
Yes. I was super excited the team was staying and wrote off the Landry move as an overpay but 'culture move,' figured McLemore was the best player on the board despite his massive slide, hoped the Williams trade was a reasonable gamble with a big chunk of 2014-15 cap space. At this point, the overall cap management, talent evaluation, and strategy of front office has me scratching my head and raising a few red flags. I'm not sure anybody needs to be fired yet, but I agree we might be 4-12 months away from PDA and Mullin wildly making moves designed to save their jobs that will cripple the Kings ability to compete for several years.

I'm concerned it's more collaborative then you think Brick. PDA and Mullin worked together in Golden State. They weren't great then. They might be botching it here. They've got an owner who doesn't know any better, likes and trusts those guys, and really wants to win now despite a limited talent base and cap flexibility in a stacked west. Might even be worse if they are all sure they've got this all figured out together as they cluelessly drive it off a cliff?

Perhaps I'm wrong and this is what it to slowly turn the Titanic around. But, it sure seems like owner doesn't know any better as PDA and Mullin clutter up a roster that is improved but ultimately over the next 2-3 years is unable to crack the playoffs, ad an major impact player via the draft, or make another big move to prevent another reboot with another GM.

We've missed the playoffs for 8 season. I don't want to be starting over in season 10 because or GM and advisor were bad and our owner was too green to either sniff it out or stop the damage.
i thought they hired gerbil from denver and mully from gsw
 
#21
Yes. I was super excited the team was staying and wrote off the Landry move as an overpay but 'culture move,' figured McLemore was the best player on the board despite his massive slide, hoped the Williams trade was a reasonable gamble with a big chunk of 2014-15 cap space. At this point, the overall cap management, talent evaluation, and strategy of front office has me scratching my head and raising a few red flags. I'm not sure anybody needs to be fired yet, but I agree we might be 4-12 months away from PDA and Mullin wildly making moves designed to save their jobs that will cripple the Kings ability to compete for several years.

I'm concerned it's more collaborative then you think Brick. PDA and Mullin worked together in Golden State. They weren't great then. They might be botching it here. They've got an owner who doesn't know any better, likes and trusts those guys, and really wants to win now despite a limited talent base and cap flexibility in a stacked west. Might even be worse if they are all sure they've got this all figured out together as they cluelessly drive it off a cliff?

Perhaps I'm wrong and this is what it to slowly turn the Titanic around. But, it sure seems like owner doesn't know any better as PDA and Mullin clutter up a roster that is improved but ultimately over the next 2-3 years is unable to crack the playoffs, ad an major impact player via the draft, or make another big move to prevent another reboot with another GM.

We've missed the playoffs for 8 season. I don't want to be starting over in season 10 because or GM and advisor were bad and our owner was too green to either sniff it out or stop the damage.
there is gerbil with the title of GM and there is mully with the title of adviser to the chairman.. who has final say? gerbil? mully? or does vivek trump them all. i was slamming gerbil pretty hard and have held more reserve since seeing the draft war room video where they were picking stauskas.

next offseason there should be ample amount of cap. hope they don't overpay rudy to stay. he's a nice piece but hardly a game changer. 10-12m should be the range for him.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
#22
It would have been nice if we have "stated strongly and clearly" our opinion beforehand and not wiggled around our purportedly "I'm right about it".

Some of us who don't want Stauskas now didn't even state strongly who we really want instead of him.

Some of us who don't want McLemore now didn't even state strongly who we want instead of him.

I can still remember when Thomas Robinson was selected by the Kings. Some of us want Andre Drummond, but we didn't have the balls to insists strongly on drafting him in this board.

Yeah, it is really easy to criticize strongly after everything became clear and right after it happened.

But where were we before the decision?

Wiggling around with so many double meaning post of what we really meant and want. Oh well, I guess that is the smarter way of making ourselves look like a basketball genius.
There are a number of people who wanted Payton, myself included. I still believe we will regret the pick of Stauskas...not saying he's a bust but that Payton has more upside ....even if his shooting is somewhat suspect. But it doesn't matter, as Nik is the guy we will roll with
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#23
The McLemore draft seems to really be the one where so many are saying it was bad didn't have anybody better in mind at the time...

With McLemore there wasn't a viable Plan B at the time he was picked.
There were those who advocated trading the pick, fwiw. Teams love picking on potential - given who we had on our roster, more thought should have been given for trading away the pick.
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#24
It would be nice if we have "stated strongly and clearly" our opinion beforehand and not wiggled around our purportedly "I'm right about it".

Some of us who don't want Stauskas now didn't even state strongly who we really want instead of him.

Some of us who don't want McLemore now didn't even state strongly who we want instead of him.

I can still remember when Thomas Robinson was selected by the Kings. Some of us want Andre Drummond, but we didn't have the balls to insists strongly on drafting him in this board.

Yeah, it is really easy to criticize strongly after everything became clear and right after it happened.

But where were we before the decision?

Wiggling around with so many double meaning post of what we really meant and want. Oh well, I guess that is the smarter way of making ourselves look like a basketball genius.
That's the nice thing about a forum. You can go back and see people's old opinions.

In the Jimmer draft I wanted Kawhi Leonard. That being said I was way off in my evaluation of Klay Thompson and I doubt that Leonard would be nearly the player he is today if he was with the Kings instead of drafted by the Spurs.

In the Thomas Robinson draft I thought he'd be a poor fit with Cuz and I wanted MKG who I thought might slip. Outside of that I wanted either Drummond or a trade down with Houston to get Lowry and draft Henson. As it turns out Houston seemed to be offering just Lowry for the pick. In hindsight that would have been much better than TRob, but still, I was pushing for Drummond.

In last year's draft I didn't think McLemore would drop so I hadn't given him a ton of thought. Same with Otto Porter who I really liked. My dream was that Noel would drop due to the injury and he almost made it to us. After that I liked CJ McCollum (because of his fit with both Cousins and Tyreke who I thought we'd retain) and then a trade down for Snell and Dieng or Nogueira. I discounted Michael Carter-Williams mostly due to fit with Cousins and Evans but also because his shooting was terrible and he struggled to finish at the rim. And because his defense was a mystery due to Syracuse's zone. He obviously has been better than I expected.

This year, I wanted Payton though honestly I like the Stauskas pick. I wish somehow we could have dumped McLemore for a pick to get Payton too but I'm not upset this year as I was in 2011 or 2012.

That said, it doesn't really matter who the fans wanted, me included. We don't get a vote. And more than that, plenty of people don't watch college hoops. They don't have a great handle on the prospects and that shouldn't matter as fans. It isn't our job to be better than the GM at evaluating talent. It's our job to support the franchise, to buy tickets & merchandise, to watch games and to cheer. It's the GM's job to make good trades and draft the right talent. I think I have a decent eye for talent, but all that does it let me play the gotcha game when I'm right or take my lumps when I'm wrong. It doesn't make the Kings any better and that's all I really care about.
 
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#26
PDA has been with the Kings for about a year and he managed to get us a very high quality SF for some spare parts. It was the biggest upgrade in talent done via trade in years. He also managed to get Gay to stay for at least 1 more year. He secured DMC to a contract extension. I even think that the Derrick Williams trade was an upgrade.

Pretty good if you ask me.

Also, who knows about the draft picks? It will be 3-5 years before we know if they were good picks or poor ones.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#27
I'm really starting to get a strong whiff of phoniness from our GM, similar to what I get when watching the politicians on the Sunday interview shows. From the "culture" bit, to the mimicking of Vivek's 2.0, to the analytics commercial, to the faux sorryness about his decision on Tyreke, I'm not feeling the rock-hard certitude of integrity, more of a guy who is wanting to tell you what he thinks you want to hear. As for Thomas, I never did pay much attention to what our GM said about him, so I'll let others chime in on that. Was he a straight-up guy? Regardless, this next year is going to be very telling. The Thomas scapegoat is gone; the lineup is almost completely one of PDA's own making. His vote of approval on the chemistry of this group is signed and sealed. Now it's "show me" time.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#28
It would have been nice if we have "stated strongly and clearly" our opinion beforehand and not wiggled around our purportedly "I'm right about it".

Some of us who don't want Stauskas now didn't even state strongly who we really want instead of him.

Some of us who don't want McLemore now didn't even state strongly who we want instead of him.

I can still remember when Thomas Robinson was selected by the Kings. Some of us want Andre Drummond, but we didn't have the balls to insists strongly on drafting him in this board.

Yeah, it is really easy to criticize strongly after everything became clear and right after it happened.

But where were we before the decision?

Wiggling around with so many double meaning post of what we really meant and want. Oh well, I guess that is the smarter way of making ourselves look like a basketball genius.
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#29
I'm really starting to get a strong whiff of phoniness from our GM, similar to what I get when watching the politicians on the Sunday interview shows. From the "culture" bit, to the mimicking of Vivek's 2.0, to the analytics commercial, to the faux sorryness about his decision on Tyreke, I'm not feeling the rock-hard certitude of integrity, more of a guy who is wanting to tell you what he thinks you want to hear. As for Thomas, I never did pay much attention to what our GM said about him, so I'll let others chime in on that. Was he a straight-up guy? Regardless, this next year is going to be very telling. The Thomas scapegoat is gone; the lineup is almost completely one of PDA's own making. His vote of approval on the chemistry of this group is signed and sealed. Now it's "show me" time.
As far as PDA being a "straight up guy" with regards to IT he was always complimentary about him but also maintained that he had a number in mind for IT which to me always signaled that he thought Thomas was going to get offers above what D'Alessandro thought he was worth to the team. And that's pretty much what happened. It was very similar to last summer with Tyreke. Whether it was a good or bad move we'll have to wait and see, but at least with Thomas I think D'Alessandro was pretty transparent in his feelings and dealings.
 
#30
based on oberserving their intractions Vivek seems to be very loyal to all of these guys I get the impression that he would have a very difficult time firing them or at least he might hang on to them for too long, in turn I think Vivek's friendlieness makes it harder for Pete to say No or tell Vivek and his advisors to butt out.

On the Vivek being in the war room issue I think he is around the FO too much in general and thats only based on the little bit we see on camera. I dont see any other owner FO combo together so much.
let's not get it twisted; vivek ranadive is the founder and CEO of TIBCO. you don't build a corporate powerhouse from the ground up by being soft on your employees. if the kings' front office doesn't get the job done, i have no doubt that vivek will take the necessary steps to move in a different direction. where is that line? how long does it take to breach it? i dunno, but i doubt he'll have "a very difficult time firing" anybody if he's dissatisfied with the product on the court...

that said, the question of whether or not vivek will be the kind of owner who is too involved in personnel decisions is certainly a valid one. personally, i'm not at all convinced that there's enough evidence to this point to suggest that he's a meddlesome owner. he's enthusiastic, and he wants to be involved in the process. does that inhibit his front office? perhaps, but that really remains to be seen. i may not agree entirely with their approach, but i think vivek and his front office are probably on the same page...