ESPN Top 8 Sophomores

Kings Faithful · Apr 13, 2009

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=thorpe_david&page=Sophs-090410

WOW... no mention of Mr.Hawes anywhere. I know ESPN is a joke but its ridiculous how the Kings get absolutely no respect. Davide Thorpe is an idiot... and he gets paid to be one! To put Jeff Green and Ramon Sessions that far back, especially behind JOAKIM NOAH, is insane. Hawes should be #5 or #6 on that list.O yeah, and no Wilson Chandler!

SacKings7 · Apr 13, 2009

I think you may be over-rating Hawes a bit. I agree with the top 4 (I'd put Young ahead of Scola though), and have no problems with Sessions and Green being on this list. Stuckey is good enough to make it, but I expected him to have a better season than he had after last years playoffs. I disagree with the Noah selection, but hes on a playoff team, and Hawes plays on the worst team in the league. Also, I'm assuming they're considering Oden a rookie, because he definitely belongs ahead of Noah.

Kings Faithful · Apr 13, 2009

SacKings7 said:

Well i wen't by eff ratings and how many games as a starter and such so thats why i put hawes at 5 or 6. If Hawes had been starting since the beginning of the season he'd be averaging at least 14 and 8. Scola puts up 13 and 9 on a decent playoff team while young puts up about 15 and 5 on a poorus Sixers team. That would by my reasoning at least. Of course I can't actually watch all these players all the time so im willing to admit faults in my reasoning. Still i can do a better job than this fool.

Nighthawk1 · Apr 13, 2009

Problem comes with Spences first half of the season... He wasn't as consistant as he is now, and I had to tell myself that. I can live with it

Peter_Gibbons · Apr 13, 2009

I agree, ESPN is a joke. SportCenter is a joke. Their idea of news is selective reporting and hype up certain big names. For small market teams and their players, they can care less.

Showtime · Apr 13, 2009

Noah doesn't belong over Hawes, sorry.

Andre87 · Apr 13, 2009

I guess being a cheerleader and a clown (noah) is more valued in today's league than an actual skill level (Hawes)

PurpleHaze · Apr 13, 2009

Andre87 said:

Maybe that means Donte Greene is a shoe-in next season for the ESPN Top 8 Sophs

Sptsjunkie · Apr 13, 2009

Nighthawk1 said:

I could see that except for the fact that Noah started the year even worse than Hawes. Hawes started strong, swooned in the middle and then finished strong. Noah was a non-factor until Gooden got injured and both Thomas and he started getting increased minutes.

Hawes absolutley belongs on this list. There doesn't seem to be any correlation here between team quality and rankings. And Hawes offensive skills are absurdly good for a 20 year old in his first full season (Hawes missed most of last year with a leg injury). The fact that Wilson D'flated Chandler gets mentioned over Hawes is insulting.

Kings Faithful · Apr 13, 2009

Sptsjunkie said:

I could see that except for the fact that Noah started the year even worse than Hawes. Hawes started strong, swooned in the middle and then finished strong. Noah was a non-factor until Gooden got injured and both Thomas and he started getting increased minutes.

Hawes absolutley belongs on this list. There doesn't seem to be any correlation here between team quality and rankings. And Hawes offensive skills are absurdly good for a 20 year old in his first full season (Hawes missed most of last year with a leg injury). The fact that Wilson D'flated Chandler gets mentioned over Hawes is insulting.

Actually Wilson Chandler wasn't mentioned, but he shouldve been.

Packt · Apr 13, 2009

I can understand the frustration with Hawes not being mentioned, because he deserves the nod for how well he's played this year. However, Noah averages similar rebounds, blks, assist/TO ratio in 5 less minutes than Hawes. You can make an argument about the offense pushing Hawes ahead, but I wouldn't. Hawes is better on the offensive end (though 46% isn't too hot for a center) and Noah is better on the defensive end.

kingzallday · Apr 17, 2009

*Looks at Noah on list* WTF?

kingsnation · Apr 17, 2009

Most interesting part of the article?

The signature:

Thorpe isn't just some "idiot." In fact, he apparently has helped develop our best player.

LWP777 · Apr 18, 2009

Peter_Gibbons said:

They are not a joke, they are a business and a very successful one at that. Nobody in the US cares about our beloved Kings, including most people in Sacramento. They are going to show what people want to see. When we were one of the best teams in the NBA we got plenty of press so I don't see it as a conspiracy or anything like that. Frankly, we just aren't that exciting of a franchise right now and rightfully so.

As for the article, I don't really have an issue with it. Yeah, maybe adding Noah to that list is a bit controversial, but like the previous poster said he's on a playoff team and Spencer is on the worst team in the league.

vikinginferno · Apr 18, 2009

LWP777 said:

Yeah I pretty much agree with this. The press doesn't have prejudice against small market teams, they just show the teams that are winning more than the teams that are horrible.

LoungeLizard · Apr 18, 2009

lwp777 said:

they Are Not A Joke, they Are A Business And A Very Successful One At That. Nobody In The Us Cares About Our Beloved Kings, Including Most People In Sacramento. they Are Going To Show What People Want To See. when We Were One Of The Best Teams In The Nba We Got Plenty Of Press So I Don't See It As A Conspiracy Or Anything Like That. Frankly, We Just Aren't That Exciting Of A Franchise Right Now And Rightfully So.

As For The Article, I Don't Really Have An Issue With It. Yeah, Maybe Adding Noah To That List Is A Bit Controversial, But Like The Previous Poster Said He's On A Playoff Team And Spencer Is On The Worst Team In The League.

Qft

MassachusettsKingsFan · Apr 18, 2009

Sportcenter and ESPN News can be tacky, but I watch them.

ESPN. Com isnt bad .. just gotta find the people you like. I dont like Thorpe as a writer but his camps must be good, Kmart loves him.

I have no problem with the list. All the players on there are deserving. My guess is Noah is on there over Hawes because Hawes was the starting center on the worst team in the NBA while Noah started center for a team that made a huge second half playoff push. Plus Noah is a better defensive player.

Why should ESPN give Kings credit for anything? .. they need to start winning some games and have a coach for more than a half a season ...

rhythmless · Apr 18, 2009

Every article that ever comes up with a Kings snub or no mention of us is immediately flagged by a couple of people around here as them being bias, or the fact that were small market, or that (insert publication here) are a bunch of idiots who know nothing.

Every favorable article, no matter how inaccurate, or how little actual meat is involved, likewise, will always have those that just like to hear good stuff about themselves.

ESPN is not stupid, not retarded, and by most accounts has more sports knowledge than an overwhelming majority of people here, me included. You can disagree with an opinion (thats all they are people) without resorting to trying to discredit the largest sports network in the world. It just makes YOU look bad and stupid. Got some facts? Great, bring em in. Insightful opinion? Great, show em up with some well written prose. To always have people climbing up on a hillside proclaiming fallacy and conspiracy and denouncing people who live sports 24/7 does not help your own case whatsoever.

Remember when we were winning? When we had stars? When we played a system? When we played offense and defense? We were on national TV all the time. Our jerseys sold, tickets sold at twice face value, playoff tickets went for extravagant amounts, and we were garnering season end accolades/consideration for all of our players. THE SAME PEOPLE who wrote those things are writing THESE things now. To readily nod your head at the past and then denounce these comments/snubs just makes you look bad.

Want accolades? Want national TV exposure? WIN.

CruzDude · Apr 18, 2009

Seems a reasonable ranking from my view. Hawes improved considerably the last 1/3 of the year but his defense is lagging quite a bit. So maybe he was 8 or 9 which might be about right.

Sptsjunkie · Apr 18, 2009

CruzDude said:

Well they had an honorable mention section too and mentioned players like Wilson Chandler there and still had no mention of Hawes. Whatever, it's a meaningless article, but I think that Hawes was worthy of being ranked higher. He was essentially a 20 year old rookie and flashed some really advanced offense and at least hustled on D, although he definitley needs to improve a lot there.

Showtime · Apr 19, 2009

This is purely because Hawes is in Sac IMO.

Just the other day, ESPN was talking about the Bulls and had a guy from SI on the show to comment. He was talking about Salmons, and said how he might have been a top MIP candidate had he been in Chicago all year long instead of in Sac.

The media doesn't care how good you really are if you are on a bad team.

kennadog · Apr 20, 2009

LWP777 said:

Sorry, but that isn't true. ESPN has a very real east coast bias (except for the friggin' Lakers). When we were the hottest team in the league we were still often ignored by ESPN. I can't tell you how pi**ed I get back then, when I'd wait up for ESPN highlights, only to have the Kings highlights be dunks made by the "other" team, which, oh by the way, lost. If they showed 5 highlights of Kings games, you could just about bet 4 would be of the other team.

And there was a Sacramento sports person (woman) hired by ESPN back then. I can't remember her name, but she said she tried to talk up how great the Kings were, but no one back there was interested in one of the very best teams in the league.

Circa_1985_Fan · May 3, 2009

Nighthawk1 said:

In all actuality it was the month of January that sucked for Spencer, he got hurt in December and had to work back into form the first 10 games or so after that. I think the first month and a half of the season were pretty darn good...so it was that month or so that did him in.

Circa_1985_Fan · May 3, 2009

Showtime said:

That just goes with the territory. Just ask Mitch Richmond, Alex English, Fat Lever and Ricky Pierce how playing for smaller market bad teams effected their careers. Unless you're winning, or have a gimmick, you get no notice, no matter how many points you score or how well you play. For years we had decent guys that should have got the MIP, Antionne Carr to name one, but we sucked and no one really gave a damn.

FakeInjury · May 3, 2009

Noah was picked before hawes, and everyone in sacramento was hoping Noah was going to slip to us. And while Hawes has a better offensive arsenal, Noah is the more valuable player by far. Spencer needs to work on his game because he is a PF in a centers body, which puts him on par with Reaf Lafrenz. If spencer puts on the muscle like his frame predicts he can, we should see a more confident Hawes, both physically and mentally.

Bricklayer · May 3, 2009

Circa_1985_Fan said:

No, I'm pretty sure it was December where his shooting just fell off dramatically.

Edit -- yeah, it was. Strong November shooting 50%. But then fell apart and shot only 33.9% in December. Then he got hurt, and it took him another couple of months before he was back as a full time starter.

SacTownKid · May 4, 2009

This is kind of the fault of the organization/coaching staff itself. If it weren't for so many inconsistent lineups and minutes both Jason and Spencer would be looked at quite a bit differently I would expect. When you don't really play guys the minutes they need until the end of the season this is almost assuredly going to happen.

Oprostaj · May 4, 2009

I think they kind of went with the lesser of two evils here. Inconsistent C on a playoff young energetic team that just pushed the defending champs to 7? Or young inconsistent C that had a hard time staying healthy and consistent on arguably the worst team in the leauge?

Circa_1985_Fan · May 4, 2009

FakeInjury said:

I wouldnt go THAT far. Spencer has a much better game in the post than Raef ever could dream of, and Raef was primarily known for his outside shot...not that Spencer doesnt take those same shots, but his post game is much more refined, and he's a much better passer, and getting others involved in the game...not to mention he brings alot more fire to the court than LaFrenz...so, although they may be similar in size, and both can hit the outside shot, there are glaring differences between the two.

rainmaker · May 4, 2009

I'm hoping Spencer feels like he got snubbed. I don't think he did, but as a player I hope he uses it as motivation going into next season. If he comes in with a chip on his shoulder ready to prove he is one of the best in his draft class, which he has the talent to be, it will only be a positive. The same goes for JT.

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