Demarcus Cousins - More minutes or less?

[Sac.Kings]

I went through the most common stats from last season for DMC, including PPG, RPG, APG, BPG, SPG, and PFs and separated it into categories - one is for games that he has played 35 minutes in or more, and the other 34 min or less. The reason I did this is because during FIBA, a few remarked that DMC needs to play less minutes in order to feel comfortable to go all out. I wondered that myself, and decided to take a look and figured I would share it with you all.

During the 2013-2014 season, DMC played 31 games (out of 70) with 35 or more minutes, and 39 games with 34 minutes or less.

35 min + (2013-2014)
-PPG: 26.4
-RPG: 13.1
-APG: 3.3
-BPG: 2.3
-SPG: 1.8
-PFs: 3.7

34 min or < (2013-2014)
-PPG: 20.4
-RPG: 10.8
-APG: 2.6
-BPG: .95
-SPG: 1.3
-PFs: 3.95

Clearly, DMC needs to play more minutes, not less. Also, out of the 70 games DMC had:
- 9 games with 2 fouls
- 21 games with 3 fouls
- 17 games with 4 fouls
- 19 games with 5 fouls
- fouled out 4 times

The percentages for the amount of games for each foul are:
- He spent 12.8% of the season with 2 fouls
- 30% of the season with 3 fouls
- 24.2% of the season with 4 fouls
- 27.1% of the season with 5 fouls

If you consider foul trouble to be 4 fouls or more, DMC was in foul trouble for more than half the season. If he played 34 minutes or less, he was likely to foul more (not by much, but regardless), and it severely affected his play. Still 20-10, but not nearly to the effect of playing 35 or more minutes.

Edit: For comparison, this is Shaq's best statistical season:
PPG: 29.7
RPG: 13.6
APG: 3.8
BPG: 3.0
SPG: 0.5
PFs: 3.2

 

[Capt. Factorial]

These numbers need to be in per-36 (or better, per 100 possessions) or they can't be usefully compared. Obviously Cousins scores more points, gets more rebounds, etc. in games where he plays more minutes. Now if he scores more per minute, that's a bit more interesting. Even then there's a bit of chicken-egg problem, because (barring foul trouble) he'll play more minutes in games where he is being effective, and fewer minutes in games where he is not effective, but it would at least be a start.

 

[kingsboi]

All DMC needs to do is play smart and not waste fouls...he knows how bad the team needs him out there, if he can average 35-38 minutes a game I will take it. I'm sure he is still working on the conditioning, so I hope. The team expects a lot out of him on both sides of the ball so it takes it toll on a big body like that.

 

[Sac.Kings]

These numbers need to be in per-36 (or better, per 100 possessions) or they can't be usefully compared. Obviously Cousins scores more points, gets more rebounds, etc. in games where he plays more minutes. Now if he scores more per minute, that's a bit more interesting. Even then there's a bit of chicken-egg problem, because (barring foul trouble) he'll play more minutes in games where he is being effective, and fewer minutes in games where he is not effective, but it would at least be a start.

I tried, the only per-36 stats are for the whole season, I can't find where the per-36 numbers are for each game. If you know where the information is, I will happily include it in this.

 

[gunks]

Depends on his conditioning... He looked pretty fit in FIBA play.

Also...His 35 minutes + numbers are stupid good. Where did all the Cousins haters go? Helllloooooo? Cousins haters? Where are yall?!

If he can sustain it...Give the guy minutes. He carries us.

 

[Bricklayer]

These numbers need to be in per-36 (or better, per 100 possessions) or they can't be usefully compared. Obviously Cousins scores more points, gets more rebounds, etc. in games where he plays more minutes. Now if he scores more per minute, that's a bit more interesting. Even then there's a bit of chicken-egg problem, because (barring foul trouble) he'll play more minutes in games where he is being effective, and fewer minutes in games where he is not effective, but it would at least be a start.

All true, however when your numbers in ANY amount of minutes are:

26.4pts 13.1reb 3.3ast 1.8stl 2.3blk

that kind of wins the argument all by itself. Doesn't matter if your per36s are 57pts and 28reb if you play 24min a game,

Ran a basketball-reference search. Total number of NBA players who have ever averaged 26.4pts 13.1reb 3.3ast 1.8stl 2.3blk in a season? Zero (0). Zilch. Nada.

Eliminate the steals column, which is really a unique factor setting Cousins apart, and total number of NBA players who have ever averaged 26.4pts 13.1reb 3.3ast 2.3blk? Two (2):

Shaq 1999-00 All Star, MVP
Kareem 1973-74 All Star, MVP
Kareem 1974-75 All Star
Kareem 1975-76 All Star, MVP

 

[Bricklayer]

BTW, minutes of modern era great centers, from 24 (Cousins' age) to age 30 (prime years):

Admiral 36.6, 37.7, 37.7, 39.2, 40.5, 38.0, 36.8 = avg 38.1
Hakeem 36.8, 35.8, 36.9, 38.1, 36.8, 37.7, 39.5 = avg 37.4
Ewing 35.0, 31.0, 36.2, 38.3, 38.6, 38.4, 37.1 = avg 36.4
Shaq 38.1, 36.2, 34.8, 40.0, 39.5, 36.1, 37.8 = avg 37.5
Dwight 34.7, 37.6, 38.3, 35.8, 33.7 = avg 36.0
Alonzo 38.2, 38.2, 35.2, 33.4, 38.1, 34.8, 23.5 (post kidney) = avg 36.3 (without kidney year)

Which is another way of saying you get a big man this dominant, you quit pussyfooting around, hitch up your wagon to his back, and go with it.

 

[KingMilz]

It all depends on his effort level/fatigue, obviously we all want him to play more but I rather have 32-33 mins of Cousins playing hard both ways than 36+ on him mainly only going hard on offence. As long as he's playing both ends with effort he can play as long as he wants for me. Now I'm not saying going all out on defence like he did for Team USA but I want to see more focus from him like he had on Team USA at the defensive end.

The man is a talent so off course you want him playing more mins he's just got to keep his focus slightly longer than he has in his first couple seasons.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

All true, however when your numbers in ANY amount of minutes are:

26.4pts 13.1reb 3.3ast 1.8stl 2.3blk

that kind of wins the argument all by itself. Doesn't matter if your per36s are 57pts and 28reb if you play 24min a game,

Ran a basketball-reference search. Total number of NBA players who have ever averaged 26.4pts 13.1reb 3.3ast 1.8stl 2.3blk in a season? Zero (0). Zilch. Nada.

Eliminate the steals column, which is really a unique factor setting Cousins apart, and total number of NBA players who have ever averaged 26.4pts 13.1reb 3.3ast 1.8stl 2.3blk? Two (2):

Shaq 1999-00 All Star, MVP
Kareem 1973-74 All Star, MVP
Kareem 1974-75 All Star
Kareem 1975-76 All Star, MVP

True as that all may be, and not that it takes away from what Cousins accomplished in any shape, form or fashion, I nonetheless consider it important to point out that neither blocks nor steals existed as an official statistic at any point during Wilt Chamberlain, Elgin Baylor or Bob Petit's respective careers, or else he'd have a little more company on that list. Still an impressive list, though.

 

[twslam07]

It all depends on his effort level/fatigue, obviously we all want him to play more but I rather have 32-33 mins of Cousins playing hard both ways than 36+ on him mainly only going hard on offence. As long as he's playing both ends with effort he can play as long as he wants for me. Now I'm not saying going all out on defence like he did for Team USA but I want to see more focus from him like he had on Team USA at the defensive end.

The man is a talent so off course you want him playing more mins he's just got to keep his focus slightly longer than he has in his first couple seasons.

Are we really assuming that 3-4 minutes a game will dictate his effort level on defense? For any of those that have played on the block, we know that's not a significant amount of time to completely adjust how much energy they bring to both sides of the court.

You want him to go all out on offense and defense? Give him minutes in the mid 20s or get him on a great conditioning program. I really don't see the argument that is "don't give him 35-36 mpg. Give him 32-33 mpg so he'll try hard on defense too."

 

[KingMilz]

Are we really assuming that 3-4 minutes a game will dictate his effort level on defense? For any of those that have played on the block, we know that's not a significant amount of time to completely adjust how much energy they bring to both sides of the court.

You want him to go all out on offense and defense? Give him minutes in the mid 20s or get him on a great conditioning program. I really don't see the argument that is "don't give him 35-36 mpg. Give him 32-33 mpg so he'll try hard on defense too."

I cleared stated that I didn't want him to go all out I just said he needs to focus more on the defensive end.......

Now I'm not saying going all out on defence

 

[twslam07]

I cleared stated that I didn't want him to go all out I just said he needs to focus more on the defensive end.......

It was more of a general question if anything. My point still holds true.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I tried, the only per-36 stats are for the whole season, I can't find where the per-36 numbers are for each game. If you know where the information is, I will happily include it in this.

Actually, you should probably be able to calculate it since you've got the per-game stats. All you need is the number of games and the number of minutes which I'll assume you have. (Per-game*total games*36/total minutes) will give you per-36 numbers.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Instead of going (per-game * total games * 36), Wouldn't it just be easier to go: (Sum total * 36) ? Also, I haven't worked out how or if it affects the math, but according to B-R.com, Cousins played in 71 games, not 70.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Instead of going (per-game * total games * 36), Wouldn't it just be easier to go: (Sum total * 36) ? Also, I haven't worked out how or if it affects the math, but according to B-R.com, Cousins played in 71 games, not 70.

Well, he's already got it in per-game form. I don't know if he did that from totals, or if he took it from a website that game him per-game numbers.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Well, he's already got it in per-game form. I don't know if he did that from totals, or if he took it from a website that game him per-game numbers.

Well, if he got it from a website, I hope he shares which one: either I'm stupid this evening, or B-R.com doesn't let you do that. I can use the Game Finder to isolate Cousins' games where he played 35+ minutes, no problem, but it won't let me aggregate those numbers into per-game stats. I'd have to do it manually and, well... I'm not ****ing doing that.

 

[arusinov]

Well, if he got it from a website, I hope he shares which one: either I'm stupid this evening, or B-R.com doesn't let you do that. I can use the Game Finder to isolate Cousins' games where he played 35+ minutes, no problem, but it won't let me aggregate those numbers into per-game stats. I'd have to do it manually and, well... I'm not ****ing doing that.

It's actually quite simple. Just need to press "export", then open result in excel, and compute formulas : (sum(<anything>)/sum(MP) )* 36
When I've done it I've got:

for 31 - 35+ min games (>=35 in filter)- per 36 min: 24.95 pts, 12.43 trb, 3.15 ass, 1.74 st, 1.59 blk, 3.48 pf, 3.60 tov
for 40- 35- min games (<= 34 in filter)- per 36 min: 25.66 pts, 13.65 trb, 3.35 ass, 1.67 st, 1.25 blk, 5.02 pf, 4.28 tov

Actually I don't see any real difference - a little bit more blocks and less turnovers but not something somehow significant.

The only real difference explains IMHO why all this topic is mostly irrelevant. Cousins has 5.02 pf per 36 min in those games he played less that 35 min which means fouls problem is main reason for limitation in PT... Cousins will play more, if he will stay out of fouls troubles...

 

[Bricklayer]

The only real difference explains IMHO why all this topic is mostly irrelevant. Cousins has 5.02 pf per 36 min in those games he played less that 35 min which means fouls problem is main reason for limitation in PT... Cousins will play more, if he will stay out of fouls troubles...

Exactly the number I was going to point out. Yep, that's the takeaway.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

It's actually quite simple. Just need to press "export", then open result in excel, and compute formulas :

That would be simple... if I had a working copy of Excel (or even OpenOffice) on this computer.

 

[bajaden]

All this math is giving me a headache. Nothing a cervesa won't cure...........

 

[Albatros]

Let me guess all these numbers equate to... yes it'd be nice to see him play more minutes.

 

[Sac.Kings]

I put all the numbers in manually because I couldn't find a website that split it up into different sections of minutes that I wanted. I used the ESPN website for the stats of each game. The reason that I used 70 and not 71 is that I excluded the Houston game in which he got injured and played only 9 minutes. I know excluding data is a no-no, but I just didn't think it was fair to include that in his 34 min or under as it had nothing to do with fouls or anything else other than getting hurt.

 

[Sac.Kings]

It's actually quite simple. Just need to press "export", then open result in excel, and compute formulas : (sum(<anything>)/sum(MP) )* 36
When I've done it I've got:

for 31 - 35+ min games (>=35 in filter)- per 36 min: 24.95 pts, 12.43 trb, 3.15 ass, 1.74 st, 1.59 blk, 3.48 pf, 3.60 tov
for 40- 35- min games (<= 34 in filter)- per 36 min: 25.66 pts, 13.65 trb, 3.35 ass, 1.67 st, 1.25 blk, 5.02 pf, 4.28 tov

Actually I don't see any real difference - a little bit more blocks and less turnovers but not something somehow significant.

The only real difference explains IMHO why all this topic is mostly irrelevant. Cousins has 5.02 pf per 36 min in those games he played less that 35 min which means fouls problem is main reason for limitation in PT... Cousins will play more, if he will stay out of fouls troubles...

Appreciate you doing this. It's kind of interesting to see the difference between "per game" and per36.

 

[Kingster]

Per 36 stats are irrelevant when you're not playing enough 36 minute games. By imagining per 36 stats, you are imagining away the very problem that needs to be addressed. The point is that in order to take it to the next level he's going to have to lay off the stupid pills and take some smart ones in order to stay in the games and help the Kings win. Those stats indicate that in more than one in four games the coach is either going to lose him entirely or be put in the unenviable position of guessing how long Cousins should sit on the bench, while still perserving a chance to win the game. And they indicate that the most important back-up on the team is probably Cousins' replacement because if past is prologue that backup is going to get a lot of critical playing time. This inability of Cousins to stay in games is by far his greatest weakness at this point in his career, imo. Moreover, the fouls point not just to his inability to stay in games, but also signal his lack of poise and smarts, which in turn causes games to be lost. (Minutes per game per season averages can be deceptive because they hide the distribution of playing time in each game, making an implicit assumption that minutes played at any juncture of the game are as important as any other junction of the game). If you want to check Cousins' progress or lack thereof this year, minute/game stats and fouls/game are a good place to start. GOOD JOB, Sac.Kings.

 

[upinsmoke]

I wish Cuz would have had the opportunity to have spent more time with Coachie I really think Cuz's passing from the post should have more emphasis focused on it. That being said he's making huge strides as a person and a player.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Yea whoever said he needs to play less minutes should probably stop following the NBA all together. You don't take your 24 year old star, who is probably the best big man in the NBA, and limit his minutes so he can run harder while he's on the floor.



Also, i was blown away to see there were 9 games where he had 2 fouls. I feel like i have never watched a game and seen DMC have less than like 4 fouls

 

[VF21]

Yea whoever said he needs to play less minutes should probably stop following the NBA all together. You don't take your 24 year old star, who is probably the best big man in the NBA, and limit his minutes so he can run harder while he's on the floor.

Just to play devil's advocate: It seemed to work pretty well in the FIBA tournament.

 

[pshn80]

Just to play devil's advocate: It seemed to work pretty well in the FIBA tournament.

I think I was one of the original to suggest that he play less minutes. I've been gone a week hunting deer in northern Lake County (hunting for me now is sitting in my walker in a quiet, out-of-the-way place in the forest hoping o see a deer pass by- one didn't). My original thought was in reaction to his excellent play on both sides of the ball in World competition in limited minutes. His play there was significantly better in my view than it was last season, both being quite good. My logic: maybe he played better because he played less and had more energy to do it. Of course the opposite approach might be better- play him a lot more minutes and force him to get in better shape and/or live with him playing tired and less effectively. As to the stats being massaged above, one important one is not included - wins and losses. In that area we, the team, and Cuz are not there yet.

 

[bajaden]

Just to play devil's advocate: It seemed to work pretty well in the FIBA tournament.

It would probably work well on the Kings as well, if we had Anthony Davis and crew playing with him.

 

[Glenn]

It would probably work well on the Kings as well, if we had Anthony Davis and crew playing with him.

....and we don't have Davis. We don't even have a backup that would warrant taking minutes away from Boogie. I must say, after watching Boogie play limited minutes in FIBA, he can be quite a terror on defense. Fun to watch.