Butler/Gay Trade
- Thread starter macadocious
- Start date
Sometimes I wonder if I'm living in fantasy land. I mean you can't really be serious about this trade proposal. Are you trading for the Winslow that you hope will develop, or the Winslow that actually played last year. Both Gay and McLemore put up better numbers than Winslow individually. Cauley-Stein put up better numbers than Winslow. Winslow may turn out to be something special, but he hasn't proved anything yet. He averaged over 28 minutes a game while scoring 6.5 points per game. He shot a less than stellar 42.3% overall, and a terrible 27.6% from the three. Willie shot almost 60% from the floor and scored 7 points a game in 21 minutes a game. I won't even post Gay's numbers because there simply isn't any comparison. I wouldn't trade Gay straight up for Winslow, much less throw in all the other pieces you have listed.
If I were the Heat, and the Kings offered me just Gay for Winslow, I'd sign that trade sheet as fast as I could and laugh all the way to the bank. I need a drink!
If I were the Heat, and the Kings offered me just Gay for Winslow, I'd sign that trade sheet as fast as I could and laugh all the way to the bank. I need a drink!
Read more: http://en.yibada.com/articles/11907...gs-demarcus-cousins-chicago.htm#ixzz475VLOP2O
Interesting take. While I am a fan of his game, not sure the attitude is what this team needs. It mentioned in the article that Sacramento is one possible destination
Yeah, NAH! Not really interested in trading WCS. I want us to build around the DMC and WCS frontcourt.
Interesting take. While I am a fan of his game, not sure the attitude is what this team needs. It mentioned in the article that Sacramento is one possible destination
Yeah, NAH! Not really interested in trading WCS. I want us to build around the DMC and WCS frontcourt.
Him and Cousins should be able to co-exists. At least, I'd hope so. Cousins got way too many touches this year. Next year, I think he'll get much less.
Cousins is also not very good down the stretch.... I could see where Jimmy could come in and be clutch. I think Butler would be our 1A, and Cousins could be our 1B.
Cousins is also not very good down the stretch.... I could see where Jimmy could come in and be clutch. I think Butler would be our 1A, and Cousins could be our 1B.
I don't want to trade Willie. A 7 footer able to guard close to 5 positions on the floor is absolute gold for any team. With the right coaching staff he should be able to develop a little bit of an offensive game too.
Bring in guards and wings able to punish slower players on pick&roll switches and this team is a legit matchup nightmare. We would have the ability to stay big even versus small ball squads ( with the only defensive liability in DMC in that scenario) and our guards could wreak havoc, if the opponents decides to play big and we are able to force switches on WCS pick&rolls.
For me this is just a too tempting scenario, even with all the roster rebuilding necessary for the1,2 and 3 position in order to make this work.
Butler is a nice player. He is exactly what I want on the Kings. But at the expense of WCS? Man I don't know. That would mean letting the dream of a positionsless squad with a 7 foot defensive juggernaut slip.
Now I would be excited when our final lineup would be something around
Teague, Ben, Butler, Solo, Cousins with a couple of bigger bodys on the bench to throw into the battle, but this scenario doesn't seem very realistic.
Bring in guards and wings able to punish slower players on pick&roll switches and this team is a legit matchup nightmare. We would have the ability to stay big even versus small ball squads ( with the only defensive liability in DMC in that scenario) and our guards could wreak havoc, if the opponents decides to play big and we are able to force switches on WCS pick&rolls.
For me this is just a too tempting scenario, even with all the roster rebuilding necessary for the1,2 and 3 position in order to make this work.
Butler is a nice player. He is exactly what I want on the Kings. But at the expense of WCS? Man I don't know. That would mean letting the dream of a positionsless squad with a 7 foot defensive juggernaut slip.
Now I would be excited when our final lineup would be something around
Teague, Ben, Butler, Solo, Cousins with a couple of bigger bodys on the bench to throw into the battle, but this scenario doesn't seem very realistic.
K
I remember posting a thread years back during Ben's rookie season asking would you trade him for Gordan Hayward and the response was similar to this with the majority saying no. While I really like WCS (I don't think he was even the 6th best player in the draft currently) I don't really understand why we would not trade him for Butler who's way better at the thing WCS does best (defense) and a 20ppg guy who when healtty has lead teams to the playoffs. Had we drafted Myles Turner/Zinger/Booker I would understand not wanting to trade them for Butler but WCS yes you do.
The good thing with Butler is if Cousins keeps messing up you still have a legit star on the team once you trade Cousins for assets which means you get more young players with similar or equal potential of WCS. If Cousins/Butler works out you got one of the meanest 1-2 punches in the NBA and you try find a athletic long big who can block shots off the bench.
What's more rare a 20ppg lockdown defender in his prime who leads teams to the playoffs or a talented up and coming athletic bigman who looks like he will be a 10-15ppg 2-3bpg type player. I want WCS on the team no doubt but if you can get Jimmy I'd move him.
Than again maybe I'm always overrating opposition players and underrating our guys but for years I've seen a trend where guys like JT/Ben/DC whatever trade you put out for them we are always giving up to much.
The good thing with Butler is if Cousins keeps messing up you still have a legit star on the team once you trade Cousins for assets which means you get more young players with similar or equal potential of WCS. If Cousins/Butler works out you got one of the meanest 1-2 punches in the NBA and you try find a athletic long big who can block shots off the bench.
What's more rare a 20ppg lockdown defender in his prime who leads teams to the playoffs or a talented up and coming athletic bigman who looks like he will be a 10-15ppg 2-3bpg type player. I want WCS on the team no doubt but if you can get Jimmy I'd move him.
Than again maybe I'm always overrating opposition players and underrating our guys but for years I've seen a trend where guys like JT/Ben/DC whatever trade you put out for them we are always giving up to much.
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I kinda saw this coming. 
Yes I'm always a bit on the reluctant side, when it comes to trading recent lottery picks. I don't now if I was one of the guys, who didn't want to give up on Ben for Hayward, but I can hardly imagine I was. After all Gordon Hayward is one of the best two way players in this league.
Now Butler is also in the same category. Great, versatile two way player, so yes I completely understand, why you wouldn't think twice if the Bulls would be willing to consider any offer from the Kings not including DMC.
And we are in the same boat: After one season WCS doesn't look like one of the 6th best players in this draft, when you take an all around approach. From my point of view guys like Turner, Booker, Johnson are clearly ahead as overall basketball players.
But we have to take coaching into account. With the exception of Booker, those guys had a great organisation to help them. Willie on the other hand.....
But there is one thing about Willie, that makes the situation different for me than a potential Ben for Hayward swap in the past.
Willie is maybe the most physically gifted 7footer I ever saw for the current playstyle of this league. I never understood the Tyson Chandler comparisons, because I see Willie more as a perimeter, help defender hybrid on the defensive end than as a true defensive anchor in the paint. Guys like Towns, Zinger or even Turner (the strange running motion really makes him look a lot slower than he actually is) are great, but they don't move like Willie (I don't care one bit about his shotblocking stats or anything else than his ability to stay in front of a lot of guys on D and his length to bother shots).
And I personally really like the idea to exploit this gift to the fullest to form a great defensive team.
With Willies potential to stay in front of guards, wings and small ball 4's, with his unmatched speed in transition it becomes really difficult to outrun and outsmallball the Kings. Give us a PG, that's on the bigger side for his position (I love Marcus Smart, but I know he is a mediocre offensive player and most likely isn't available ), and a couple of solid wings and we could switch any pick&roll not including DMC. That's huge versus all the borderline illegal screens nowadays.
And if (and that's actually the very BIG if) Willie somehow learns to use his size on offense we could be able to gain the upper hand even versus small perimeter teams. And versus bigger guys Willie already showed he is able to blow by them, to outrun them up and down the floor and to finish over them with hooks. That with a couple of guards, that are good enough to force switches and exploit them would be dangerous for any team.
I know, I know...a lot of if's, a lot of wishful thinking. Maybe Butler is the save route (if he is even available to that package) and you won't hear me complain, when we assemble a team close to that lineup I mentioned above.
But a man needs dreams to keep his optimism during rough times.
Yes I'm always a bit on the reluctant side, when it comes to trading recent lottery picks. I don't now if I was one of the guys, who didn't want to give up on Ben for Hayward, but I can hardly imagine I was. After all Gordon Hayward is one of the best two way players in this league.
Now Butler is also in the same category. Great, versatile two way player, so yes I completely understand, why you wouldn't think twice if the Bulls would be willing to consider any offer from the Kings not including DMC.
And we are in the same boat: After one season WCS doesn't look like one of the 6th best players in this draft, when you take an all around approach. From my point of view guys like Turner, Booker, Johnson are clearly ahead as overall basketball players.
But we have to take coaching into account. With the exception of Booker, those guys had a great organisation to help them. Willie on the other hand.....
But there is one thing about Willie, that makes the situation different for me than a potential Ben for Hayward swap in the past.
Willie is maybe the most physically gifted 7footer I ever saw for the current playstyle of this league. I never understood the Tyson Chandler comparisons, because I see Willie more as a perimeter, help defender hybrid on the defensive end than as a true defensive anchor in the paint. Guys like Towns, Zinger or even Turner (the strange running motion really makes him look a lot slower than he actually is) are great, but they don't move like Willie (I don't care one bit about his shotblocking stats or anything else than his ability to stay in front of a lot of guys on D and his length to bother shots).
And I personally really like the idea to exploit this gift to the fullest to form a great defensive team.
With Willies potential to stay in front of guards, wings and small ball 4's, with his unmatched speed in transition it becomes really difficult to outrun and outsmallball the Kings. Give us a PG, that's on the bigger side for his position (I love Marcus Smart, but I know he is a mediocre offensive player and most likely isn't available ), and a couple of solid wings and we could switch any pick&roll not including DMC. That's huge versus all the borderline illegal screens nowadays.
And if (and that's actually the very BIG if) Willie somehow learns to use his size on offense we could be able to gain the upper hand even versus small perimeter teams. And versus bigger guys Willie already showed he is able to blow by them, to outrun them up and down the floor and to finish over them with hooks. That with a couple of guards, that are good enough to force switches and exploit them would be dangerous for any team.
I know, I know...a lot of if's, a lot of wishful thinking. Maybe Butler is the save route (if he is even available to that package) and you won't hear me complain, when we assemble a team close to that lineup I mentioned above.
But a man needs dreams to keep his optimism during rough times.
Pairing Wiggins with Butler doesn't make a lot of sense. But outside of media speculations about chemistry issues, I simply don't understand why the Bulls should trade Butler. Why shouldn't they simply retool the team around him?
They have a couple of solid young pieces. They need more athleticism in the middle ( Felicio is a nice start and a keeper for next season as a back up center) another good wing player (who doesn't need that...) and a few upgrades for their bench.
Let Gasol, Brooks and Noah walk and go from there. Listen to offers for Mirotic, McDermott, Dunleavy, Rose (huge expiring contract) and Gibson. I don't see the Bulls in a situation that forces a complete rebuild and they still have a couple of nice assets for potential trades.
They have a couple of solid young pieces. They need more athleticism in the middle ( Felicio is a nice start and a keeper for next season as a back up center) another good wing player (who doesn't need that...) and a few upgrades for their bench.
Let Gasol, Brooks and Noah walk and go from there. Listen to offers for Mirotic, McDermott, Dunleavy, Rose (huge expiring contract) and Gibson. I don't see the Bulls in a situation that forces a complete rebuild and they still have a couple of nice assets for potential trades.
With rumors of Kings "shopping Gay heavily at the deadline" can anyone point to anything concrete, what the offers were, cause I just ran into an interesting article (http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20160423/sports/160429361/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter) with this nugget:
So I wonder, could this have been the main source of the noise of "Rudy is being shopped aggressively"?
i'm in agreement. i've been perplexed by the butler rumors from the start. so he may have rubbed past-their-prime mainstays like noah and rose the wrong way by claiming ownership of the team leader role. who cares? there's no future in which either noah or rose are even a shadow of their former selves. you move on from those two if necessary, but you DO NOT throw the baby out with the bath water by trading butler. i mean, what the hell? you're gonna ship out a legitimate 20 ppg two-way SG in a league that's less talented at the position than it's been in decades, yet smaller across the board than it's ever been? what kind of sense would that make?
If Chicago would actually take Rudy Gay, Ben McLemore and the Kings lottery pick for Butler I'd do that in a heartbeat. I'd even be okay with adding Koufos or Belinelli (if Chicago wants them) and taking back whoever - say Snell.
You let Rondo walk as Collison is a much better fit next to a SG like Butler that likes to have the ball in his hands and does some playmaking. I'd still love to see Ryan Anderson as the third big and now the Kings are thin at SF but
Cousins
Cauley-Stein
Casspi
Butler
Collison
With Anderson, maybe Koufos and/or Belinelli and hopefully Curry off the bench would be a solid squad.
You let Rondo walk as Collison is a much better fit next to a SG like Butler that likes to have the ball in his hands and does some playmaking. I'd still love to see Ryan Anderson as the third big and now the Kings are thin at SF but
Cousins
Cauley-Stein
Casspi
Butler
Collison
With Anderson, maybe Koufos and/or Belinelli and hopefully Curry off the bench would be a solid squad.