Back to old offense ?

[Flopi]

From cowbellkingdom.com :

DeMarcus Cousins on how comfortable he is now four games into the season:

I’m still trying to get comfortable. I mean, we kind of switched back to the old offense which helped us out a lot tonight because we were struggling in our new offense. Not to say it didn’t work, but it just didn’t really fit us as a team. Coach made a great adjustment and it showed.
​

Right now, the offense is not very effective to say the least.
We won that one thanks to the defense and heroic but individual plays by Aaron Brooks.
0 assist in the 4th quarter. That was an ugly win.

 

[jalfa]

if switching back to the old offense means less Cuz hanging around at or even behind the 3point-line: by all means, yes!

 

[Spike]

Does the old offense mean set plays and structure, or by old offense, is it every man for himself? I guess we'll see how things shake out after a week or so. My gut told me that this team was not a good fit for triangle/globetrotters and is better built for the half-court, but run and gun will also impact the defensive side, to an extent. In any case, hearing that Smart is making an adjustment because he sees that things are flawed warms my heart.

 

[UK_King]

What was the old offense? last season it was just a lot of standing around doing nothing and one on one rubbish. I think it was supposed to be running the ball through the bigs at the high post, which I'm not averse too but it's completely useless if the guards just stand around, especially when said big is Hayes.

The "new" offense was supposed to be the triangle, i think it's a bit of a cop out if they've decided they can't play to that system after 4 games.

we've all the tools to play a simple high screen and roll offense like the rockets but im sure that won't materalise.

 

[jcwkings]

wait we had an offense to go back to?

 

[ESP47]

I didn't know we had a new offense either.

We can't even run a pick and roll.

This team is all about 1 on 1 street ball and jacking up shots on a hope and a prayer. That's why we can't close out games because once the only team puts the defensive clamps down, we don't have any set plays to get us open shots. We seem to do most of our late 4th scoring on busted plays and miracles.

 

[Spike]

As a coach, you should be able to quickly see if a system is suitable to your players. Unfortunately, Smart should have seen the ill fit during preseason, but I give him props for recognizing it now and working to adjust 4 games in instead of 40 games in.

 

[Gary]

How soon people forget..... After the all-star break last year we had the 6th best offense in the NBA...

Does everyone here suffer from memory loss?

 

[ESP47]

We didn't have the 6th best offense. We put up the 6th most points at the expense of our defense and FG%.

We scored a lot of points while our shooting efficiency was near the bottom of the league. Plus our defense was at the bottom of the league as well.

We can't go back to scoring that many points while holding opponents to 90ppg. It's impossible.

It's all run and gun smoke and mirrors. You think you're a good offensive team, when in reality you're just taking a ton of shots at a low FG% while your opponent is taking just as many shots at a higher FG%.

 

[Bricklayer]

How soon people forget..... After the all-star break last year we had the 6th best offense in the NBA...

Does everyone here suffer from memory loss?

We didn't really have an offense. We just ran up and down the court like chickens with our heads cut off. Good way to score a lot of points. And let your opponent score a lot of points. And lose. Diagramming what we were doing would have been, let's say, a challenge.

 

[Gary]

Their FG% in the second half of the season was also really good. They improved on every offensive stat, some more than others but our offense did score a lot of points. We were pushing the ball though which you had mentioned which means more possessions both ways.

The way I see defense though in this kind of scenario is opp fg% so if they can keep it at about 40-42% then I would be happy if we went back to the other offense.

 

[rainmaker]

If we go back to a race horse style offense, just mindlessly running and gunning, our now vastly improved defense will immediately suffer.

There's no point in swapping out one for the other. Our defense is very good right now, and the logical assumption would be to build on that, not just throw up our hands and go back to running and gunning and hurt our defense. It's now on Smart to improve our halfcourt offense. That would add to our defense, not put it at risk.

Now, our halfcourt offense has been largely crap since Smart took over, so he should be feeling some pressure to improve it. I'd start with more plays off Cuz, and get him the ball more near the elbow, where there's better space to operate, and catching it on the move in the paint. Improve our spacing. Quit running Iso's for JJ, outlaw and JT, which he did for JJ yet again out of a timeout yesterday. More running MT off screens. Less pounding the ball by Brooks. More Reke/Cuz two man game. And quit pulling IT for an eternity. It's obvious he's lost confidence, and for me a huge part is Smart replacing him with Brooks and banishing him to the bench. IT is looking over his shoulder and looks as if he doesn't feel he has the confidence of his coach.

BTW, our offense with Brooks still was terrible yesterday. We were lucky to win. Brooks going 1v1 and forcing up terrible shots which happened to go in isn't something we can rely on. He closed the game for us, but if that's what Smart is drawing up and that's what we're counting on, we're in trouble.

 

[dustnroses]

wait we had an offense to go back to?

2002 WCF offense! Let's go back to that.

 

[SacTownKid]

We didn't really have an offense. We just ran up and down the court like chickens with our heads cut off. Good way to score a lot of points. And let your opponent score a lot of points. And lose. Diagramming what we were doing would have been, let's say, a challenge.

Pretty much, but there were play designs to a degree after Smart ditched the run and gun. There was legit success when they went to the "old" old offense as in the Princeton up top with more motion. Then Smart went back to a pick and roll to death campaign that really didn't work all that well. The only real offense I've seen them run this year is pick and roll, so I'm hoping that's the offense they are ditching? I didn't see a ton of pick and roll in last nights game, more motion, more spread offense so I'm wondering if that is the "old" offense they went back to, if so good, if not time to just suck it up, quit wasting time and bring in Nelly. Just get it over with already.

 

[SacTownKid]

2002 WCF offense! Let's go back to that.

They did last year, ran a lot through Hayes and Cousins and it worked. Then they started running every possible player in the pick and roll. Even Hayes which if you thought his post play was bad! He can set awesome screens but any coach that actually runs pick and roll for Chuck Hayes of all people needs to take a time out for himself.

 

[UK_King]

If we go back to a race horse style offense, just mindlessly running and gunning, our now vastly improved defense will immediately suffer.

There's no point in swapping out one for the other. Our defense is very good right now, and the logical assumption would be to build on that, not just throw up our hands and go back to running and gunning and hurt our defense. It's now on Smart to improve our halfcourt offense. That would add to our defense, not put it at risk.

Now, our halfcourt offense has been largely crap since Smart took over, so he should be feeling some pressure to improve it. I'd start with more plays off Cuz, and get him the ball more near the elbow, where there's better space to operate, and catching it on the move in the paint. Improve our spacing. Quit running Iso's for JJ, outlaw and JT, which he did for JJ yet again out of a timeout yesterday. More running MT off screens. Less pounding the ball by Brooks. More Reke/Cuz two man game. And quit pulling IT for an eternity. It's obvious he's lost confidence, and for me a huge part is Smart replacing him with Brooks and banishing him to the bench. IT is looking over his shoulder and looks as if he doesn't feel he has the confidence of his coach.

BTW, our offense with Brooks still was terrible yesterday. We were lucky to win. Brooks going 1v1 and forcing up terrible shots which happened to go in isn't something we can rely on. He closed the game for us, but if that's what Smart is drawing up and that's what we're counting on, we're in trouble.

This!

It's obvious to everyone that Smart wants to be an everyman, he's running plays for absolutely everyone, even people who have no offense to speak of, Outlaw, JJ, Chuck Hayes (!) These guys should be shooting on broken plays or wide open only I've had enough of JJ dribbling it up the floor freelance and wasting time.

 

[Kingster]

We didn't really have an offense. We just ran up and down the court like chickens with our heads cut off. Good way to score a lot of points. And let your opponent score a lot of points. And lose. Diagramming what we were doing would have been, let's say, a challenge.

Actually, I remember IT doing a lot of two man game with Cousins last year. It seemed to work very well. I haven't seen that this year.

 

[Gary]

If we go back to a race horse style offense, just mindlessly running and gunning, our now vastly improved defense will immediately suffer.

There's no point in swapping out one for the other. Our defense is very good right now, and the logical assumption would be to build on that, not just throw up our hands and go back to running and gunning and hurt our defense. It's now on Smart to improve our halfcourt offense. That would add to our defense, not put it at risk.

Now, our halfcourt offense has been largely crap since Smart took over, so he should be feeling some pressure to improve it. I'd start with more plays off Cuz, and get him the ball more near the elbow, where there's better space to operate, and catching it on the move in the paint. Improve our spacing. Quit running Iso's for JJ, outlaw and JT, which he did for JJ yet again out of a timeout yesterday. More running MT off screens. Less pounding the ball by Brooks. More Reke/Cuz two man game. And quit pulling IT for an eternity. It's obvious he's lost confidence, and for me a huge part is Smart replacing him with Brooks and banishing him to the bench. IT is looking over his shoulder and looks as if he doesn't feel he has the confidence of his coach.

BTW, our offense with Brooks still was terrible yesterday. We were lucky to win. Brooks going 1v1 and forcing up terrible shots which happened to go in isn't something we can rely on. He closed the game for us, but if that's what Smart is drawing up and that's what we're counting on, we're in trouble.

You're probably right, but I am sure there could be a happy medium somewhere in between.

 

[Sac.1989]

put the ball in rekes hands, play brooks as the off guard and off we go.

 

[jalfa]

put the ball in rekes hands, play brooks as the off guard and off we go.

Brooks is probably the most unhappy of all our guards to not have the ball in his hands, so in the event that Reke were to be getting control over the ball, the off guard would have to be someone else. Thornton, preferably.

 

[Sac.1989]

Yeah. We havnt had an ideal partner for Reke since Beno. Thornton would be ideal with IT changing it up off the bench. But really Thornton's best off the bench

We have to put the ball back into rekes hands its simple. He looks lost out here. The best thing that could happen to us is Jimmer blows up and forces his way into the starting line up playing off Reke.

I dont care for this reke is or isnt a pg. He needs the ball and thats the way we need to go.

 

[tyreeeke]

Yeah. We havnt had an ideal partner for Reke since Beno. Thornton would be ideal with IT changing it up off the bench. But really Thornton's best off the bench

We have to put the ball back into rekes hands its simple. He looks lost out here. The best thing that could happen to us is Jimmer blows up and forces his way into the starting line up playing off Reke.

I dont care for this reke is or isnt a pg. He needs the ball and thats the way we need to go.

Reke and Jimmer starting in the backcourt is the best solution, I can't believe people don't see it. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like Jimmer is going to get his fair shake to prove it.

 

[The_Jamal]

Tyreke doesn't deserve the ball in his hands until he shows he can make a wide open jumper. Another 0-5 for him from the perimeter on what were all great looks. His play on the defensive end of the floor has been fantastic, but you cannot be the 1st or 2nd option of an offense when you're bricking open jumpers

 

[HereWeBoogie]

ill bet if the rotations were correct, and consistent, the offense would start to get a lot better

 

[mac]

Tyreke doesn't deserve the ball in his hands until he shows he can make a wide open jumper. Another 0-5 for him from the perimeter on what were all great looks. His play on the defensive end of the floor has been fantastic, but you cannot be the 1st or 2nd option of an offense when you're bricking open jumpers

Sad but true. It is very frustrating to see that Tyreke can't even hit wide open shots on a consistent basis. And for all we want to sit around criticizing him for it, you must realise that he's probably his own biggest critic. Imagine spending months shooting thousands of jumpshots, going into the season with loads of confidence and then finding that you can't buy a bucket from the perimeter once the game starts. Now you start second-guessing your shot, and that just makes things even worse.

 

[mac]

ill bet if the rotations were correct, and consistent, the offense would start to get a lot better

Rotations are one thing, who you put on the floor is another. I'm more concerned with the latter. Not quite sure how Keith Smart expects a lineup of Chuck Hayes, Outlaw, Garcia, Brooks and Thornton to put up points against the Spurs D.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

^ya i agree, sorry i didnt specify, im referring to lineups as well when i say that. lineup/rotation has killed this teams success, and it needs to kill Keith Smarts job already. bring someone in who can manage a NBA team

 

[rainmaker]

Without a jumper Reke has still been our best creator, best penetrator, and has been far better himself with the ball than without. The problem with just taking the ball out of his hands for long stretches is we don't have another guard who's had near the effect when they have the ball instead. MT is still better without the ball, spotting up, run off screens, running to an open spot, catch and pop.

I don't buy that we're better as a team with a Reke who doesn't have the ball. Shockingly, our best creator this year(Reke) and our best off the ball player(MT) have played a grand total of three mins together with Reke running the point. If IT is also playing better off Reke than with the ball, then wouldn't you ask yourself why wouldn't we want our best off the ball player in MT playing off Reke?

For all the talk of Reke's jumper, which has been downright terrible to start the year, we have not looked better with IT/Brooks running the team. IT has been best looking for his own or playing off Reke, and Brooks pounds away like he gets paid per dribble. Neither have been good running the offense for the large part. Once again tonight Reke had more assists than IT/Brooks.

There's also the defensive factor. IT hasn't been as good as last year. Now I do think a large part of IT's struggles are our offense, lack of confidence and Smart benching him for too long. I'm not even saying to bench him, but we should see more of a Reke/MT backcourt at least in stretches, and see where it goes. How is a Jimmer/IT or Jimmer/Brooks backcourt supposed to be better?

Seriously, how many coaches would run out Jimmer/IT and Jimmer/Brooks before Reke/MT?

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Shockingly, our best creator this year(Reke) and our best off the ball player(MT) have played a grand total of three mins together with Reke running the point.

this is atrocious to me.

im ready for a new coach already, i gave Smart the benefit of the doubt last year when i noticed his crazy subs and rotations, because he took over during the season, now there is no excuse. im done, and i think all Kings fans need to hop on board and make thier voices heard. time for a coaching change

 

[mac]

Without a jumper Reke has still been our best creator, best penetrator, and has been far better himself with the ball than without. The problem with just taking the ball out of his hands for long stretches is we don't have another guard who's had near the effect when they have the ball instead. MT is still better without the ball, spotting up, run off screens, running to an open spot, catch and pop.

I don't buy that we're better as a team with a Reke who doesn't have the ball. Shockingly, our best creator this year(Reke) and our best off the ball player(MT) have played a grand total of three mins together with Reke running the point. If IT is also playing better off Reke than with the ball, then wouldn't you ask yourself why wouldn't we want our best off the ball player in MT playing off Reke?

For all the talk of Reke's jumper, which has been downright terrible to start the year, we have not looked better with IT/Brooks running the team. IT has been best looking for his own or playing off Reke, and Brooks pounds away like he gets paid per dribble. Neither have been good running the offense for the large part. Once again tonight Reke had more assists than IT/Brooks.

There's also the defensive factor. IT hasn't been as good as last year. Now I do think a large part of IT's struggles are our offense, lack of confidence and Smart benching him for too long. I'm not even saying to bench him, but we should see more of a Reke/MT backcourt at least in stretches, and see where it goes. How is a Jimmer/IT or Jimmer/Brooks backcourt supposed to be better?

Seriously, how many coaches would run out Jimmer/IT and Jimmer/Brooks before Reke/MT?

Tyreke's been fumbling the ball a whole lot more though, leading to a lot of turnovers and missed shots. He needs to either pass the ball earlier on his drives or gather further away from the rim. That will increase the likelihood that he gets a foul called on the defensive player. He's been over-penetrating a lot. Same goes with JJ.