Artest: Martin Is Better Than Reggie Miller

KingsFan93

KingsFan93

G-League
#1
#1
Rockets' forward Ron Artest compared two of his old teammates recently and decided that Kings' guard Kevin Martin is better than retired Pacers' guard Reggie Miller.

"When he (Kevin Martin) was there (in Sacramento), he was always working hard," Artest said. "When Reggie Miller left (Indiana when Artest played there), nobody really did the things that Reggie Miller did. I see a lot of Reggie Miller (in Martin). He's actually better than Reggie Miller, but the only thing Reggie had on him was he was a better team defender than Kevin."


Source
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#2
#2
Couple of things:

1) by the time Artest teamed with Reggie Miller he was nearing the end of his career. Kevin is obviously better than old Reggie. Better than young in his prime Reggie? Eh...

2) But its not a blowout, and the reason is this: Reggie Miller is going to the HOF. But Reggie Miller at no point was a superstar all time Great type of player. He was a very good OG, but not always even in the Top 5 in the league at that position. Saying Keivn is better than Reggie was is not nearly as outrageous as saying Kevin is better than Kobe or whatnot.

3) But the things that made Reggie into such a famed player are precisely the reason that Ron, as usual, is wrong. Reggie was not a great player...until he needed to be. His sense of the moment and clutch play was a huge part of his legend. And those little things like team defense were part of that also -- very saavy very heady player. If you want to say Kevin Martin has more talent than Reggie Miller...I'm not sure I agree about in his prime Reggie, but I'll listen to the debate. Kevin certinaly has more atheltic gifts. But Reggie still had more impact because of the 1000 intangibles he brought to the game that inflated his value.
 
P

Prince_XY

Starter
#3
#3
First, I don't know why people will even consider debating Artest's comments/assessments when the guy is close to being a looney. He can't even substantiate what he was talking about.

IMO, Artest is at the level of Dennis Rodman. Great basketball players and.....hmmm.....nothing else.

.
 
Last edited:
N

Nighthawk1

Starter
#5
#5
Who is to say he won't eventually be right? You guys might not respect him but at least he's done something none of us have and played with both. So as crazy as he might sound he has some baseline.
 
tyrant

tyrant

Starter
#8
#8
why is everyone still talking about artest. this thread isnt about martin or miller. its about how stupid ron artests' comment is. he's still finding ways to get into the headlines. and you all are entertaining it. ignore him.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#11
#11
Oscar said:
Artest, Martin and Reggie all have at least one thing in common - none of them has a ring.
Click to expand...
So? What's your point?

The vast majority of players to play in the NBA don't have rings. The whole "If they don't have rings they weren't successful" concept is just silly. There are a number of people in the Hall of Fame who don't have rings, either.
 
Aenadin

Aenadin

Starter
#12
#12
VF21 said:
So? What's your point?

The vast majority of players to play in the NBA don't have rings. The whole "If they don't have rings they weren't successful" concept is just silly. There are a number of people in the Hall of Fame who don't have rings, either.
Click to expand...

Karl Malone for example :D you cant say Bowen is better than him cause he has no ring right? :)
 
K

Kingsguy881

Guest
#13
#13
Reggie Miller scored 8 points in the final 14 seconds vs. the Knicks to beat them, on their home floor. Until Martin can do that, while showing the "choke" sign to Spike Lee, you can't have this argument.
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#15
#15
Kingsgurl881 said:
Reggie Miller scored 8 points in the final 14 seconds vs. the Knicks to beat them, on their home floor. Until Martin can do that, while showing the "choke" sign to Spike Lee, you can't have this argument.
Click to expand...
Did Michael Jordan ever score 8 points in the last 14 seconds to beat the Knicks at the Garden?

Seems like a fairly arbitrary way to dismiss the argument, is all.
 
Mr. S£im Citrus

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#16
#16
Capt. Factorial said:
Did Michael Jordan ever score 8 points in the last 14 seconds to beat the Knicks at the Garden?
Click to expand...
No, but I'm pretty sure he dropped fifty on them a couple of times.

Arbitrary it may be, not nearly so much as your random invoking of the GOAT; not even the most optimistic Kevin Martin fan would compare the two of them...

 
SacKings7

SacKings7

Starter
#18
#18
You guys are looking too far in to this. Reggie was past his prime when Artest played with him, and Martin was just starting to play really well. I have to agree with Artest that Martin was better than Miller was at that stage. Comparing their careers, Miller is/was better, but with Artest as their teammate, Martin wins.
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#19
#19
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
Arbitrary it may be, not nearly so much as your random invoking of the GOAT; not even the most optimistic Kevin Martin fan would compare the two of them...
Click to expand...
No, that was my point. The statement was made that insert player name here cannot be considered a better player than Reggie Miller until he scores 8 in 14 seconds. This was laid out as a precondition for arguing that a player is greater than Reggie Miller. And that's just silly.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#20
#20
Capt. Factorial said:
No, that was my point. The statement was made that insert player name here cannot be considered a better player than Reggie Miller until he scores 8 in 14 seconds. This was laid out as a precondition for arguing that a player is greater than Reggie Miller. And that's just silly.
Click to expand...
Not particualrly since the clutch play is the biggest and clearest seperator between the two players. MJ did not score 8pts in 14 seconds, but he did not have to -- he was tangibly superior in a thousand other ways. Kevin does not have that tangible superiority. So where does the serparation come from?
 
Last edited:
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#21
#21
Bricklayer said:
Not particualrly since the clutch play is the biggest and clearest seperator between the two players. MJ did not score 8pts in 14 seconds, but he did not have to -- he was tangibly superior in a thousand other ways. Kevin does not have that tangible superiority. So where does the serparation come from?
Click to expand...
I think you're asking me to argue a position that I do not intend to argue: that Kevin Martin is a better player than Reggie Miller. Given Miller's longevity, I think I should like to see at least five more seasons out of Martin before trying to make a meaningful comparison between the two.

I just think it isn't reasonable to dismiss any discussion of which player is better out of hand simply because Martin has yet to have as many "clutch" plays as Miller. Have the discussion. At this point in his career, Martin comes up short, but that doesn't mean you can't have the discussion.
 
K

Kingsguy881

Guest
#22
#22
Capt. Factorial said:
I think you're asking me to argue a position that I do not intend to argue: that Kevin Martin is a better player than Reggie Miller. Given Miller's longevity, I think I should like to see at least five more seasons out of Martin before trying to make a meaningful comparison between the two.

I just think it isn't reasonable to dismiss any discussion of which player is better out of hand simply because Martin has yet to have as many "clutch" plays as Miller. Have the discussion. At this point in his career, Martin comes up short, but that doesn't mean you can't have the discussion.
Click to expand...
Ok, dude, that was my way of pointing out that Reggie Miller had accomplished some amazing and incredible things in his career, while Martin has not. Martin's one claim to any kind of fame was a layup on TD in the playoffs to win a game.

What Miller did was absolutely freakish, Martin hasn't done anything even close. Until he does, you can't have this argument.

Did Isaiah Thomas score 8 points against the Knicks in 14 seconds? No, but he dropped 25 points in a quarter against the Lakers with a sprained ankle. Magic Johnson stepped up as a rookie to play center for an injured Abdul Jabbar and dropped 40 points, and with it darn near a triple double.

I'm not talking about the actual feat, I'm talking about greatness stepping up and getting it done when it's needed. If you want to look at the isolated event and take that example to apply it to everything be my guest. I was making a point that what Miller did transcended what a "normal" ball player can do, therefore it can't be argued that Martin is better than him until he also does something equally amazing.
 
P

Peter_Gibbons

Starter
#23
#23
I think Ron Ron made that comment in terms of judging them based on their talent alone. He probably thinks Martin has all the skills to be better than Reggie. But Reggie's main thing was he wanted to win. He played with a lot more hunger than we've seen in Kmart at this point. Reggie is more vocal. What makes Jordan so much better than others is more than just his skills. MJ was just so tough mentally that he would absolutely refuse to lose. Even when you compare the so call Jordan or our time "kobe".... I would ask.... would MJ allow his team to lose a gm in the finals after being up by 24pts midway through the 3rd at home? Kobe choked and thats the difference between him & MJ, Magic, Bird... the true greats.

And at this point, thats what stands between Martin and the next level. He has the skills and the work ethic to get there. He needs a stronger winning/put the team on my back attitude.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.