A little patience is the key..

[Aenadin]

I dont know how to start or do this but I see most of us you guys are pissed at hawes being "soft" not the typical center. shooting threes. etc.

Not making excuses from hawes but When you look at it from the moment we drafted him we knew he is a project not a finished product and you know how projects go SOMEONE has to finish or continue it. a 19 year old freshman big who hasnt grown to his body yet can only do so much. other than that his early years he had brad as his mentor so yes finally some one to continue on project hawes. not a good mentor/model but continuing the project still. but then again who's to say and claim brad was REALLY teaching him. and come the time brad was traded yes we knew spence will start. now with out ANY other center vet. to teach, play against, guide this young man. he would continue where he was productive in the earlier part of his soph-rook years and yes that means playing ala miller. and playing ala miller doesnt require him to be THAT athletic, strong or an inside guy. again the princeton offense which is designed if you have less athletic guys. its a cerebral offense we can work to perfection and can torment the other team if we run it right.

now the problem here is as i stated he doesnt have another big to work with. bigman coach can teach and mentor but what would dominating and out rebounding a 50 something truck robinson or a retired SAR accomplish. give and take hawes and JT work against each other or even brock. nothing can take the place of a vet center to work with. to mentor.

so im just saying that we cant expect hawes to produce the said numbers we want like double doubles if there is no one around to push him to the limits and when you are the only 7footer around.

lets not give up on him guys i mean we HAVE SEEN what he is capable off 30pts 10plus rbds couple of assists against bynum

we cant says he is soft cause you know how fiery and motivated hawes can be. if i recall he went against the lopez twins didnt he.

so instead of raving on trading him, thinking of the negatives lets just try supporting him. I may not have enough bball knowledge but I know potential and my gut tells me he will be good.

i maybe one of them sometimes but I just realized how sad it is we easilly give up on him... come on! show him some love

btw Sorry if Some of my points dont make sense or somewhat nonsense..

Just wanted to share whats been bugging me.... this team has so much potential that we want to exchange it for quick fixes..

go kings!

 

[mac]

I think the team needs to more properly and seriously define Spencer's role. We've seen the impact that that has had on Beno's game this season when he knows what the coaches want him to do. With Spencer, we all want him to be banging down in the paint getting rebounds and using his array of post moves. But so far we hardly ever go to him down in the post even when he calls for the ball, and most of the time he is used as a screen or to set up the offense from the high post.

That is too much to ask from a guy who is neither fully polished nor naturally athletic IMO. You either tell Spencer that he's going to be used say 90% in the high post, in which case you just get him to work a lot more on the free throw line jumpers like Brad for pick and pops, and expect his rebounding numbers to drop in favour of his assists. OR you sit him down and say we want you as a big option to score down low, so bulk up and work on your post game.

As for the attitude and heart, Spencer is definitely a fiery competitor. I don't think it's fair to just look at his rebounding numbers and say that he doesn't have the heart to fight for rebounds. Martin's rebounding numbers are up, Omri rebounds quite a bit, Tyreke gets 5 a game, and Hawes minutes have declined. How can you expect all these things to happen and have Hawes still getting 10 rebounds a game?

As the OP said, we need to have patience and proper guidance with Hawes.

 

[Aenadin]

Ive seen him throw down some one handed put backs coming out of no where too.. so we cant say he is always ground bound.

his passing for his age, and position is outstanding btw.

 

[mac]

Ive seen him throw down some one handed put backs coming out of no where too.. so we cant say he is always ground bound.

his passing for his age, and position is outstanding btw.

Exactly, he has the talent and isn't that athletically handicapped. But if somebody like Tyreke or Omri are grabbing the rebounds obviously he can't. Most of the time in fact you see Spence running down the court pretty fast when the opponents miss a shot and the rebound is clearly coming down our way. If the small forwards and point guards are going to stay back to get the rebound I think running down court is a smart thing to do.

And I'm not against this, we've seen what Tyreke very often does when he gets the D rebound and goes one man coast to coast...

 

[Aenadin]

Exactly, he has the talent and isn't that athletically handicapped. But if somebody like Tyreke or Omri are grabbing the rebounds obviously he can't. Most of the time in fact you see Spence running down the court pretty fast when the opponents miss a shot and the rebound is clearly coming down our way. If the small forwards and point guards are going to stay back to get the rebound I think running down court is a smart thing to do.

And I'm not against this, we've seen what Tyreke very often does when he gets the D rebound and goes one man coast to coast...

and i dont get how the combine will dictate the rest of your career on how athletic you are going to be... I mean J.J reddick had some hops in the combine and we know how well he turned out

I need to watch a few more games before i assess what i think of JT too.. but i think he too deserves some little love. i mean Growing into a 6ft11 late growth spurt isnt easy it messes with your game... he learned to play big just when?

 

[dbfish]

Hawes is a work in progress. He needs more time to mature as an NBA big man. It would help him tremendously if he had another big to help show him the ropes. He needs to dedicate himself in the off season to bulk up some and maybe stick around town after the season and work out with some of the other players.
JT on the other hand seems like a regression in progress. He has the talent to be a decent power forward. not an all-star, but a decent power forward and a piece of the Kings puzzle if he would quit trying to finger roll every shot within 5 feet of the basket. It infuriates me to see him go up soft and have these shots blocked or bounce off the rim. He definately needs to get his mental part of the game sorted out. He has to get over not getting a call from the refs and hustle back down the court and quit standing there whining with his poor pitiful me look while the other team is going down the floor for an easy 2.

I hope help is on the way.

 

[DocHolliday]

When people say he is soft, no one is saying he isn't fiery. The fact of the matter is he is physically weak. He is not strong. The people compared Hawes to Brad Miller when he was drafted were mostly correct. Except for the fact that he's not nearly the shooter Brad is.

What is true is if he gets caught in traffic he is so weak he can't get his arms above his head. If 2 arms are put out, his arms going up hit those arms and collapse and he loses the ball. Sometimes, it's a foul, sometimes they hit ball first and his arms just crumpled.

I'm not sure if he knows how to use leverage and center of gravity well either. When people bump into him most of the time his upperbody tips back and that throws him off balance, now if there is a follow up bump it's all over, because he's completely off balance and out of position at that point. He needs to get DOWN...deep knee bend, upper body slightly leaned forward, wide base.

When he gets hit he'll slightly rock and still be there. You only come up when blocking the shot. Even if he learns how to use his leverage and center of gravity better he HAS to become physicaly stronger.

Period. He has the talent. But, if you give a NASCAR driver a stock Chevy, or Chrysler car and tell him to go compete out on the track with other NASCAR level race cars that driver won't have a chance.

 

[vistacruza_kings]

honestly if hawes capped out at Brads level(first years on the kings) i would be happy

 

[Prince_XY]

I dont know how to start or do this but I see most of us you guys are pissed at hawes being "soft" not the typical center. shooting threes. etc.

Not making excuses from hawes but When you look at it from the moment we drafted him we knew he is a project not a finished product and you know how projects go SOMEONE has to finish or continue it. a 19 year old freshman big who hasnt grown to his body yet can only do so much. other than that his early years he had brad as his mentor so yes finally some one to continue on project hawes. not a good mentor/model but continuing the project still. but then again who's to say and claim brad was REALLY teaching him. and come the time brad was traded yes we knew spence will start. now with out ANY other center vet. to teach, play against, guide this young man. he would continue where he was productive in the earlier part of his soph-rook years and yes that means playing ala miller. and playing ala miller doesnt require him to be THAT athletic, strong or an inside guy. again the princeton offense which is designed if you have less athletic guys. its a cerebral offense we can work to perfection and can torment the other team if we run it right.

How about we exercise a little bit of patience with Hawes, and let him mature a little bit more in practice with limited actual playing time. But for the mean time, let us get a true defensive center who is exactly the opposite mold of Hawes!

IMO, we shouldn't let this young team develop the losing mentality/culture which might just result from the too many losses it is incurring because of our deficiency at the 5. We cannot sacrifice and be contented with a center like Hawes, just because we want him to develop and/or we have a man-crush on Hawes.

I think this should be the way to deal with Hawes' case. The Kid is in his third year and looks like a borderline bust already. The reason why a lot of fans are saying that Hawes is a softie, not the typical center, and shoots the three's ( in a nauseating and alarming rate for a center of a team who needs their big to operate inside ) is because it is true! And forget about those once in a blue moon flashes of brilliance of basketball moves that Hawes had shown. Those are potentials that may never be realized in the future. If you want to let him stay with the team, then I am for it. But to say we should pin our hopes in him, wait a little longer for him to develop, or still consider him to be the future starting center for the team when we have some power to replace him NOW with a better defensive center would be a big mistake.

 

[SacKings384]

I've said this before and I'll say it again... You can't teach guys to be tough. Think of every big man that got the "soft" label when they were in the pros. Not guys that were too soft for the NBA, but guys that were physically playing in the NBA and were clearly soft in their first few years. Now think of how many become tough physical players. Can't think of any? Me either...

 

[juicij36]

What is true is if he gets caught in traffic he is so weak he can't get his arms above his head. If 2 arms are put out, his arms going up hit those arms and collapse and he loses the ball. Sometimes, it's a foul, sometimes they hit ball first and his arms just crumpled.

I'm not sure if he knows how to use leverage and center of gravity well either. When people bump into him most of the time his upperbody tips back and that throws him off balance, now if there is a follow up bump it's all over, because he's completely off balance and out of position at that point. He needs to get DOWN...deep knee bend, upper body slightly leaned forward, wide base.

When he gets hit he'll slightly rock and still be there. You only come up when blocking the shot. Even if he learns how to use his leverage and center of gravity better he HAS to become physicaly stronger.

word.

 

[CruzDude]

I think the "soft" tag is a bad one no matter the player or the game. For Spence he is just physically lighter than many 5's, sometimes by 20+ lb. He also does not yet have the muscles of many of his counterparts which inhibits his ability to get to the basket without losing the ball. Both of which put him at a disadvantage. Therefore, his 3-pt shooting.

Part of any 5's plus/minus performance is the support he gets from the 4 and 3 position for rebounding. JT has been having his issues and the two of them just have not played enough together to create a compliment. Coach may have his doubts (me too) about them starting. Coming off the bench may be the best thing for spence for awhile.

As is being said now a 100 times: new coaches, 7 new players with essentially 4 rookies getting major minutes, new offense, etc. For a bunch of vets they would take most of the year. For 3 rooks with only one year of college ball (Greene, Tyreke, Hawes: I know, I know, Hawes is in 3rd year but throw out year one and last year and this year are his rookie years to me. Same for Greene), another rook/starter from EuroBall, a 2nd rounder (Brockman), missing Martin for the first 2+months, on and on. We're lucky to have 15 wins so far. But they are in most games in the last 5-8 minutes and lose from lack of experience.

I'm having fun watching an exciting team we haven't seen since 1998-99. Then there was Vlade & CWebb, now its Hawes and JT. Hang in there guys and gals. Martin needs another 10-15 games to get into the flow. Then Cisco is back and we have 2 vets to lead the kids. Boy, I'm looking forward to late February and March.

 

[Bricklayer]

I think the "soft" tag is a bad one no matter the player or the game. For Spence he is just physically lighter than many 5's, sometimes by 20+ lb. He also does not yet have the muscles of many of his counterparts which inhibits his ability to get to the basket without losing the ball. Both of which put him at a disadvantage. Therefore, his 3-pt shooting.

Part of any 5's plus/minus performance is the support he gets from the 4 and 3 position for rebounding. JT has been having his issues and the two of them just have not played enough together to create a compliment. Coach may have his doubts (me too) about them starting. Coming off the bench may be the best thing for spence for awhile.

As is being said now a 100 times: new coaches, 7 new players with essentially 4 rookies getting major minutes, new offense, etc. For a bunch of vets they would take most of the year. For 3 rooks with only one year of college ball (Greene, Tyreke, Hawes: I know, I know, Hawes is in 3rd year but throw out year one and last year and this year are his rookie years to me. Same for Greene), another rook/starter from EuroBall, a 2nd rounder (Brockman), missing Martin for the first 2+months, on and on. We're lucky to have 15 wins so far. But they are in most games in the last 5-8 minutes and lose from lack of experience.

I'm having fun watching an exciting team we haven't seen since 1998-99. Then there was Vlade & CWebb, now its Hawes and JT. Hang in there guys and gals. Martin needs another 10-15 games to get into the flow. Then Cisco is back and we have 2 vets to lead the kids. Boy, I'm looking forward to late February and March.

The kids need no leading from those types -- they've shown they know more about winnning and spirit then those vets have ever shown. What you will get is a couple of vets strangling the kids. Which is always fun to watch. Just ask the 5,000 remaining season ticket holders.

 

[Aenadin]

A focused work out other than Coachie's shooting will tremendously help hawes. and JT for that matter..

project takes 3 to 4 years tops. and with all the coaching changes we just keep pressing the reset button That's why we see only little progress.

 

[Kings4life23]

The kings should hire a hall of fame big to coach up spence brad and shareef are not the best coaches to be coaching him it would be nice to get c-webb in here to help plus he really needs to add 20-30 pounds of muscle not far fetched to gain in one off season he just haves to want it.