Kings Inquire About Sessions

[AriesMar27]

well he isnt exactly a 20/10 pg he could eaily be a 15/10 pg if he is starting and has players that can make some shots.... though playing with martin might hurt that since all he wants to do is shoot freethrows, he doesnt even care about making the shot as long as he gets contact and hears that whistle. but all in all sessions would be one hell of a pick up for us even with beno on the team.

 

[rhythmless]

well he isnt exactly a 20/10 pg he could eaily be a 15/10 pg if he is starting and has players that can make some shots.... though playing with martin might hurt that since all he wants to do is shoot freethrows, he doesnt even care about making the shot as long as he gets contact and hears that whistle. but all in all sessions would be one hell of a pick up for us even with beno on the team.

Again, I get that some fans think 20/10 is an easily attainable stat for a starting pg, but the reality of it is that these numbers are very gaudy. 15/10 even... That's about Jason Kidd numbers, who is another HOF player. Andre Miller reached that once or maybe even twice. Cant remember off top of my head. Rondo looks like he is going to be a 15/10 player, that is, until he learns to shoot 20ft out. But Rondo is also an All Star caliber player.

Now, if you drop those number slightly to 15/7 or 15/8, you begin to get into some realistic territory, someone in the Jason Williams and Andre Miller averages. I realize he was putting up ridiculous games and filling up the stat sheet, but I don't see him progressing past the Jason Kidd and Rondos of the NBA. I see him (as previously pointed out) as a very good starter in the NBA, but no lasting legacy, ala Andre Miller.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

well he isnt exactly a 20/10 pg he could eaily be a 15/10 pg if he is starting and has players that can make some shots....

Well, dropping the 20/10 requirement to 15/10 and still looking at the past decade, we add Andre Miller's 2001 and Jason Kidd's 2000 (if we round assists up) to the Nash, Deron, Paul list. That's it.

10 assists/game is a lot, and only the very best PGs get to that level. It's been done 67 times since 1962 (that's 48 seasons, and never before that). Fewer than 1.5 guys get there in an average season. Let's not assume Sessions is up to that level quite yet.

 

[AriesMar27]

the difference is that sessions is a bit more eager to score than kidd and miller. he cant shoot either but he will attack the basket. sessions would have a good player on a bad team type of 15/10... just like how martin scores 24 ppg... i could see him ending up like andre miller but if he goes to a team that allows him to do his thing and not hold him back he could be a really good player.

i watched him pick apart the lakers last season.... it was on april fools day, he had 16pts 10reb 16ast... the bucks lost the game but man-o-man did session have one hell of a game. it came to him so easily, had the team been shooting the ball better he couldve ended up with a 20/10/20 game without breaking a sweat. but he shot horribly and a couple of players couldnt hit their shots.

 

[AriesMar27]

Well, dropping the 20/10 requirement to 15/10 and still looking at the past decade, we add Andre Miller's 2001 and Jason Kidd's 2000 (if we round assists up) to the Nash, Deron, Paul list. That's it.

10 assists/game is a lot, and only the very best PGs get to that level. It's been done 67 times since 1962 (that's 48 seasons, and never before that). Fewer than 1.5 guys get there in an average season. Let's not assume Sessions is up to that level quite yet.

i was rounding up with the 10 assists.... maybe 8 or 9. but how many pg's really try to get 10 assists? you can tell when a player is trying to score 20 points. but its hard to tell if a player is trying to get the extra assists, unless the game is coming to a close and the player has like 8 or 9. that and players miss shots. though the same could be said for the top tier pgs too.

chris paul can get 10 assists a game but the hornets as a team dont average that many assists.

 

[DoDiGaG0]

only way we can swing a deal for sessions if it involves martin..and im sure that would draw the ire of some people here

and if we do acquire sessons with a long term deal, that would utterly shatter gavins idea of a seven foot wingspan point guard, we do swing him at the SG, he can slash, yes but most of our offense requires him to shoot if he is to be moved at SG yes?

resigned sessions, gadzuric and amir johnson
for

martin
udrih
2nd rounder

trade garcia and noc for prince and cash

lineup

sessions/rodriguez
evans/johnson
prince/casspi/greene
thompson/brockman/may
hawes/gadzuric

are you really trading Kevin Martin for a backup PG who averaged 13 PPG for one season?

jesus christ...

Id do Garcia for Sessions...but thats about it

I wouldn't want to give him more than 10 mill/3 years

 

[Chupacabra]

^ lol i hear you. My god, Sessions isnt THAT good. The idea of giving up an all-star caliber shooting guard for a fairly good point guard after we just drafted a point guard with the #4 pick is crazy to me. And no, Evans isnt playing out of position.

 

[bajaden]

^ lol i hear you. My god, Sessions isnt THAT good. The idea of giving up an all-star caliber shooting guard for a fairly good point guard after we just drafted a point guard with the #4 pick is crazy to me. And no, Evans isnt playing out of position.

I think you guys need to pay attention. Most of us aren't saying we should trade Martin for Sessions. I thought I was pretty clear on that earlier. Were saying, make an offer for Sessions and see if the Bucks match it. If they do then start discussing a sign and trade. But other than a couple of people, I don't recall anyone endorsing trading Martin for Sessions.

 

[bajaden]

are you really trading Kevin Martin for a backup PG who averaged 13 PPG for one season?

jesus christ...

Id do Garcia for Sessions...but thats about it

I wouldn't want to give him more than 10 mill/3 years

Did you see him play last year? Being a huge Sessions fan that followed him at UNR, I think he will be one of the top 10, maybe to 5 point guards in the NBA in a couple of years. He finally got the starting job last year half way through the season, and he showed why he should have had it sooner. As I said earlier. He was one of the best point guards in the NBA for the second half of the season. His weakness is his outside shot, but he's young and he can improve. He hardly ever turns the ball over. He's big for a point guard at over 6'3". And despite not being a great athlete, he's a good defender.

He reminds me a lot of Andre Miller. Similar size and style of game. Andre wasn't a great shooter either. He has that same smoothness and ease of game that Miller has. As a result, he never looks spectacular, but gets the results.

 

[Chupacabra]

I think you guys need to pay attention. Most of us aren't saying we should trade Martin for Sessions. I thought I was pretty clear on that earlier. Were saying, make an offer for Sessions and see if the Bucks match it. If they do then start discussing a sign and trade. But other than a couple of people, I don't recall anyone endorsing trading Martin for Sessions.

I was only speaking to a few that had brought up the Idea of getting sessions, sliding Reke over to the 2, and getting rid of Martin. Im aware that most dont endorse the idea, but theres a small crazy group here that does. Im too lazy to go hunting through this thread but the comments are in here.

 

[Bricklayer]

I was only speaking to a few that had brought up the Idea of getting sessions, sliding Reke over to the 2, and getting rid of Martin. Im aware that most dont endorse the idea, but theres a small crazy group here that does. Im too lazy to go hunting through this thread but the comments are in here.

No, that's the NON-crazy group.

If you get Sessions, the plan has changed. Then its Sessions as the young PG, Evans as the young SG, and Kevin...as trade bait. That would be one of the bonuses of making the move. Not replacing Kevin with Sessions and saying: improvement! But replacing Kevin with Sessions AND whoever you could trade Kevin for -- it frees up a major trade chit. If it goes well you could be sitting pretty.

The crazy crew would be those thinking Sessions > Martin without the whole Martin as trade chit angle.

 

[Nighthawk1]

I wouldn't actually mind it... we could actually use KMart + TPE to help facilitate a jazz-bulls trade.... Boozer to Bulls, Kmart to Jazz, NYK's draft pick (via Jazz) + James Johnson + Tyrus + expirings or maybe Fesenko or Noah could be the meat of the trade. It would basically be trading KMart for prospects/solid big men still progressing, draft pick + expirings. Sadly though I'm not very good with using TPE's and trade checkers to see if it's even plausible even though I'm sure this idea might seem unpopular
After looking at it again it could be a KMart + 5 mill TPE to Utah, Boozer to Chicago, Tyrus + James Johnson + NYK's draft pick (from Utah) in a very simple version. Utah Saves money and solidifies their backcourt forever, Chicago gets Boozer, we get young bigs (one expiring) and another lottery draft pick....

Of course this is based on the idea we actually sign Sessions or do a SnT with Garcia to bucks

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Sessions is a good player. I like his game, but is he a rare player? In my opinion he is not. You can find other players who can do what he can do.

I think the best thing for us to do is either save the capspace or let another team borrow it. IF Evans is a real point guard with his size he can be a rare player .. A one of a kind type player.


Lets just say I rather have Evans as a point guard than Evans as a shooting guard. As a point, he is a dynamic rare piece that can cause serious matchup problems. As a shooting guard, I fear he might be John Salmons.


I could be wrong, If Sessions turns into a top 5 point guard like Bajaden thinks is possible, then you do whatever you can to sign him and figure out the positions later. My thing is that Evans is 10x more valuable to us as a point guard ( assuming he can play it ) that he is as a shooting guard.

 

[Gary]

Having attended UNR briefly in the Farron Hand days I still like to keep up with the UNR sports. At the time I was watching McGee's freshman year and Fazekas. I didn't think much of Sessions although I thought he did have decent size. I thought of him as late 2nd maybe, or UFA...

He has proved me wrong though. He's turned into an awesome PG with good size, good defense, decent rebounding from the PG pos, and he has a great handle on the game, and understands what he's supposed to do. He can drive to the bucket and draw fouls almost at will when he wants to. I think he suffers from "John Salmons" syndrome though. You can tell when he's not feeling it. It really shows in his game. He will pretty much just dribble it up and pass it off. But then again when he's on he is ON! He will put up 30 points with 15 of them coming from the FT line, and dish our like 15 assists and grab about 7 boards.

Basically put the kid in the right situation and there is really nothing he cannot do. I would even rate him above Rondo at this point. He does need to work on his 3pt shot though but everyone knows that

If the Kings had a chance to get him I would say go for it.

*disclaimer*- It hurts me to put Martin into a trade being my favorite King...

If we somehow worked out a deal to trade Martin to someone like the Raptors and get Bosh then sign and trade for Sessions we would really have a decent young team. I would worry about our three pt shooting though from the starters. Or maybe put Garcia at SG an bring Evans in as the 6th man so we can set a tempo before bringing him in.

PG-Sessions
SG-Evans or Garcia
SF-Nocioni
PF-Bosh
C-Hawes

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Having attended UNR briefly in the Farron Hand days I still like to keep up with the UNR sports. At the time I was watching McGee's freshman year and Fazekas. I didn't think much of Sessions although I thought he did have decent size. I thought of him as late 2nd maybe, or UFA...

He has proved me wrong though. He's turned into an awesome PG with good size, good defense, decent rebounding from the PG pos, and he has a great handle on the game, and understands what he's supposed to do. He can drive to the bucket and draw fouls almost at will when he wants to. I think he suffers from "John Salmons" syndrome though. You can tell when he's not feeling it. It really shows in his game. He will pretty much just dribble it up and pass it off. But then again when he's on he is ON! He will put up 30 points with 15 of them coming from the FT line, and dish our like 15 assists and grab about 7 boards.

Basically put the kid in the right situation and there is really nothing he cannot do. I would even rate him above Rondo at this point. He does need to work on his 3pt shot though but everyone knows that

If the Kings had a chance to get him I would say go for it.

*disclaimer*- It hurts me to put Martin into a trade being my favorite King...

If we somehow worked out a deal to trade Martin to someone like the Raptors and get Bosh then sign and trade for Sessions we would really have a decent young team. I would worry about our three pt shooting though from the starters. Or maybe put Garcia at SG an bring Evans in as the 6th man so we can set a tempo before bringing him in.

PG-Sessions
SG-Evans or Garcia
SF-Nocioni
PF-Bosh
C-Hawes

Good observations about Sessions...alot of people in here want to put Sessions on the fast track to the Hall of Fame. He is what he is: a good PG with good size. He isn't the second coming of Jason Kidd from what I can see, Mo Williams would probably be his upside comparison, minus a 3 pt shot which he doesn't take hardly ever. He probably could be good for 15/7 a game, which isn't bad...but not great by any means. I wouldn't sell the fort and re-decorate the kitchen all in the name of getting Sessions.

 

[Telemachus]

Again, I get that some fans think 20/10 is an easily attainable stat for a starting pg, but the reality of it is that these numbers are very gaudy. 15/10 even... That's about Jason Kidd numbers, who is another HOF player. Andre Miller reached that once or maybe even twice. Cant remember off top of my head. Rondo looks like he is going to be a 15/10 player, that is, until he learns to shoot 20ft out. But Rondo is also an All Star caliber player.

Now, if you drop those number slightly to 15/7 or 15/8, you begin to get into some realistic territory, someone in the Jason Williams and Andre Miller averages. I realize he was putting up ridiculous games and filling up the stat sheet, but I don't see him progressing past the Jason Kidd and Rondos of the NBA. I see him (as previously pointed out) as a very good starter in the NBA, but no lasting legacy, ala Andre Miller.

Last season Sessions started 38 games (33.3 mins). In those games he averaged 15.2 pts and 7.5 asts. He is only 22 years old, so I think it is likely that he will get better over the next few years. I also like the fact that he is very good defensively.

 

[Double-K]

"There have also been rumblings the Sacramento Kings have recently inquired about Sessions. However, the extent of the Kings' interest isn't known."

And we talked about it for 6 pages? This is TDOS alright....

 

[VF21]

And it's only August...

 

[Chupacabra]

No, that's the NON-crazy group.

If you get Sessions, the plan has changed. Then its Sessions as the young PG, Evans as the young SG, and Kevin...as trade bait. That would be one of the bonuses of making the move. Not replacing Kevin with Sessions and saying: improvement! But replacing Kevin with Sessions AND whoever you could trade Kevin for -- it frees up a major trade chit. If it goes well you could be sitting pretty.

The crazy crew would be those thinking Sessions > Martin without the whole Martin as trade chit angle.

I disagree. I, like massachusettskingsfan, believe that Evans is much more valuable as a point guard than he is as a shooting guard. As a point guard he can be dynamic. As a shooting guard he could probably just be good. I think it would be a HUGE mistake to trade a guard who is a proven star (kevin martin) for a guard who is good and has potential (ramon sessions). The only way id trade a proven star for a guy whos good and has potential is if i were trading a guard for a bigman. Also, if we gave up Martin who would be our shooting threat? Nocioni? Casspi? How would we spread the defense?
The more i think about acquiring sessions the more i dislike the idea. I wouldnt want to take any minutes away from Evans at the point guard spot. The only reason id want to sign sessions is to use him as trade bait.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

And it's only August...

Sweet mother of!! Still 2 more months left!!

 

[Gary]

I disagree. I, like massachusettskingsfan, believe that Evans is much more valuable as a point guard than he is as a shooting guard. As a point guard he can be dynamic. As a shooting guard he could probably just be good. I think it would be a HUGE mistake to trade a guard who is a proven star (kevin martin) for a guard who is good and has potential (ramon sessions). The only way id trade a proven star for a guy whos good and has potential is if i were trading a guard for a bigman. Also, if we gave up Martin who would be our shooting threat? Nocioni? Casspi? How would we spread the defense?
The more i think about acquiring sessions the more i dislike the idea. I wouldnt want to take any minutes away from Evans at the point guard spot. The only reason id want to sign sessions is to use him as trade bait.

I would hope they took an approach of putting Garcia in there starting at the SG position with Sessions starting at PG. It's not a huge deal if Evans came off the bench anyhow, because all three can handle the ball. All three could realistically have about 30 minutes a night if we used a 3 man rotation for the guards. If you wanted to get a bit more in depth we could move Garcia to the SF when Nocioni is out and bring in Beno to play PG and put Evans at SG. There are a ton of options out there to keep the 3pt shooting on the floor.

Starting lineup-
PG-Sessions
SG-Garcia
SF-Nocioni

Alternate Lineup#1-
PG-Evans
SG-Garcia
SF-Nocioni

Alternate Lineup#2-
PG-Beno
SG-Evans
SF-Garcia

Alternate Lineup#3-
PG-Sessions
SG-Evans
SF-Garcia


All of the above will leave us with a 3pt threat(s) on the floor. If the Kings were to even put Nocioni in at PF it would free up time for Omri.. The only part of this whole idea I don't like is if we traded Martin and started both Evans, and Sessions.. That would mean only Garcia or Nocioni (whoever started at SF) would be the only realistic 3pt threat outside Hawes who we want in the post anyway.

 

[beb0p]

Getting Session will disrupt what looks like a set rotation. The Kings at this point do not need another PG.

With that said, the Kings are at a talent-acquiring stage. If they can get Session for the MLE, they should do it and figure out the rest later. Maybe Session and Martin click in the backcourt and then you trade Evans. Maybe Session and Evans click. You don't know but it's worth a try. At worst one of them is feed up and demand a trade, but that 's fine - all three guys have trade value - the Kings will not have another Beno situation on their hands.

However, and this is the catch-22, the Kings won't be able to sign Session. If Session is willing to accept the MLE he has better options than Sacramento. I'm willing to guess that the Bucks will match the offer if it's only for the MLE. So while it's good to dream, the reality bites.

 

[VF21]

Getting Session will disrupt what looks like a set rotation. The Kings at this point do not need another PG.

With that said, the Kings are at a talent-acquiring stage. If they can get Session for the MLE, they should do it and figure out the rest later. Maybe Session and Martin click in the backcourt and then you trade Evans. Maybe Session and Evans click. You don't know but it's worth a try. At worst one of them is feed up and demand a trade, but that 's fine - all three guys have trade value - the Kings will not have another Beno situation on their hands.

However, and this is the catch-22, the Kings won't be able to sign Session. If Session is willing to accept the MLE he has better options than Sacramento. I'm willing to guess that the Bucks will match the offer if it's only for the MLE. So while it's good to dream, the reality bites.

Nice and succinct...and unfortunately probably very true. I have to wonder if "reality bites" is going to be one of the premiere phrases this year in discussing why desired players aren't coming to the Kings at this point in time.

 

[fnordius]

Nice and succinct...and unfortunately probably very true. I have to wonder if "reality bites" is going to be one of the premiere phrases this year in discussing why desired players aren't coming to the Kings at this point in time.

I don't think it's as bleak as all that in this particular case. We don't have an MLE since we're $5.4M below cap. That's only about half a million less than the MLE. There are many trades we could make that would free up more than that. If, for example, we traded KT for a player making $6.6M, we would then be $7.5M below cap, and able to spend almost $2M more than the MLE. (I'm not saying that he is or is not worth that much, just pointing out what we could do if we wanted.) A trade of any of our vets could do the same thing. So could something like trading Sean May to an under-cap team for a second round pick. Or whatever, lots of ways to do it.

But I doubt it'll happen. The FO hasn't acted very motivated lately, and the Maloofs almost certainly don't want to spend any money if they can avoid it. In that way, the current reality does bite.

 

[kennadog]

But I doubt it'll happen. The FO hasn't acted very motivated lately, and the Maloofs almost certainly don't want to spend any money if they can avoid it. In that way, the current reality does bite.

I don't like spending money I don't have, either. I'm funny that way, I guess.

 

[Bricklayer]

However, and this is the catch-22, the Kings won't be able to sign Session. If Session is willing to accept the MLE he has better options than Sacramento. I'm willing to guess that the Bucks will match the offer if it's only for the MLE. So while it's good to dream, the reality bites.

Keeping Sessions at MLE money puts the Bucks into the luxury tax. Throw in their drafting a rokkie PG (Jennings) and its far from a sure thing they match.

 

[beb0p]

Keeping Sessions at MLE money puts the Bucks into the luxury tax. Throw in their drafting a rokkie PG (Jennings) and its far from a sure thing they match.

Yes, it's far from sure that the Bucks will match - they're close to paying the luxury tax and they have 15 guaranteed contracts.

But they also have several expiring contracts and several tradeable young players and all they need to clear is about $3 millions in cap space. It's very doable. They may have to sacrifice Amir Johnson or Joe Alexander in order to clear room, but for keeping Session, it's worth it. Or they give away Sonny Weems and Walter Sharpe, keep Session, and pay about $1 million in luxury tax. Still worth it for keeping Session.

Last season, the Bucks had Richard Jefferson and proceed to draft two more SFs (Alexander and Mbah a Moute). They are also in a talent-acquiring stage and I don't think they mind having both Session and Jennings. The bottom line is they do like Session, and if they can keep him without huge damage to their finance I think they'll go for it.

 

[Double-K]

I don't like spending money I don't have, either. I'm funny that way, I guess.

There's a reason why we have credit cards.

 

[bajaden]

Yes, it's far from sure that the Bucks will match - they're close to paying the luxury tax and they have 15 guaranteed contracts.

But they also have several expiring contracts and several tradeable young players and all they need to clear is about $3 millions in cap space. It's very doable. They may have to sacrifice Amir Johnson or Joe Alexander in order to clear room, but for keeping Session, it's worth it. Or they give away Sonny Weems and Walter Sharpe, keep Session, and pay about $1 million in luxury tax. Still worth it for keeping Session.

Last season, the Bucks had Richard Jefferson and proceed to draft two more SFs (Alexander and Mbah a Moute). They are also in a talent-acquiring stage and I don't think they mind having both Session and Jennings. The bottom line is they do like Session, and if they can keep him without huge damage to their finance I think they'll go for it.

In that case, offer him a three year salary starting at 5 mil a year. At the very least we make them work for him. Look, were just having fun here. The possiblites of this actually happening are remote. At least its more interesting than, Lets trade Martin for three expiring scrubs and a used car.

Interesting though. all the talk about Sessions on the web has suddenly become silent. Hmmmm..

 

[hammystyle]

I wouldn't actually mind it... we could actually use KMart + TPE to help facilitate a jazz-bulls trade.... Boozer to Bulls, Kmart to Jazz, NYK's draft pick (via Jazz) + James Johnson + Tyrus + expirings or maybe Fesenko or Noah could be the meat of the trade. It would basically be trading KMart for prospects/solid big men still progressing, draft pick + expirings. Sadly though I'm not very good with using TPE's and trade checkers to see if it's even plausible even though I'm sure this idea might seem unpopular
After looking at it again it could be a KMart + 5 mill TPE to Utah, Boozer to Chicago, Tyrus + James Johnson + NYK's draft pick (from Utah) in a very simple version. Utah Saves money and solidifies their backcourt forever, Chicago gets Boozer, we get young bigs (one expiring) and another lottery draft pick....

Of course this is based on the idea we actually sign Sessions or do a SnT with Garcia to bucks

I don't know if those numbers all work either but that's actually one of the soundest trade proposals I've ever seen on this site. That would be a no-brainer for me. Obviously with the chit that we do sign Sessions.

I think Thomas is already pretty close to being a defensive impact guy even if he hardly improves at all. The fact that he has worlds of upside too makes it really nice. That + a likely top 10 in an ultra-stacked draft isa exactly the type of haul we should be after.