Do We Want Gay That Badly?
- Thread starter Kingster
- Start date
Maybe because times have changed.
We have a new CBA. We don't have the lazy Petrie now and the broke Maloofs. We have a new arena coming in a few years and we have Shaq on board. More importantly we have a very important piece in Cousins.
And why would it be so hard to think that it is possible for Phoenix to deal Bledsoe, if Bledsoe decides he wants to play with his old friend Cousins?
Wolves and Love, does that ring a bell?
We have a new CBA. We don't have the lazy Petrie now and the broke Maloofs. We have a new arena coming in a few years and we have Shaq on board. More importantly we have a very important piece in Cousins.
And why would it be so hard to think that it is possible for Phoenix to deal Bledsoe, if Bledsoe decides he wants to play with his old friend Cousins?
Wolves and Love, does that ring a bell?
Are you saying "Wolves and Love" because Love wants to leave and the Wolves are stuck trying to get the best deal for him? The two situations are entirely different.
Phoenix doesn't have to care where Bledsoe wants to play. He's a restricted free agent, and they can match any offer he receives. Even if he receives the max, they have ample cap space in the coming years to do so while giving Dragic a raise in 2015 and keeping the rest of their guys around.
Phoenix doesn't have to care where Bledsoe wants to play. He's a restricted free agent, and they can match any offer he receives. Even if he receives the max, they have ample cap space in the coming years to do so while giving Dragic a raise in 2015 and keeping the rest of their guys around.
I think even calling it a long shot is understating it. In order for that rumored deal to happen:
The Kings have to want to trade IT and the #8 for Bledsoe which I think could be likely
The Suns have to want to trade Bledsoe for IT and the #8 which I think is unlikely.
The Kings have to know in advance of the draft that Gay is opting out which they apparently don't know now
The Kings have to pick a player for the Suns in the draft assuming the trade will go down
Isaiah Thomas has to agree to a sign-and-trade to the Suns and the Suns have to agree to the contract
Bledsoe has to agree to a sign-and-trade to the Kings and the Kings have to agree to the contract
Just one thing - like another team offering IT a contract that the Suns don't want to match - could blow the whole deal leaving the Kings with a player they drafted for another team and may not particularly favor.
Here's where PDA has bound himself (and the team) up. He didn't go with an all out rebuild last season so now if IT and Gay go, even if they get Lowry you're looking at a rebuild year next season, putting them a year behind schedule. Now if the team could get Bledsoe I think he and Cousins CAN be a foundation to build on. But as I said above, I think that's beyond unlikely to happen and Lowry is a nice player but not a building block. Again, I'm very curious to see what PDA actually does. And I'm hoping I'm not horribly disappointed.
The Kings have to want to trade IT and the #8 for Bledsoe which I think could be likely
The Suns have to want to trade Bledsoe for IT and the #8 which I think is unlikely.
The Kings have to know in advance of the draft that Gay is opting out which they apparently don't know now
The Kings have to pick a player for the Suns in the draft assuming the trade will go down
Isaiah Thomas has to agree to a sign-and-trade to the Suns and the Suns have to agree to the contract
Bledsoe has to agree to a sign-and-trade to the Kings and the Kings have to agree to the contract
Just one thing - like another team offering IT a contract that the Suns don't want to match - could blow the whole deal leaving the Kings with a player they drafted for another team and may not particularly favor.
Here's where PDA has bound himself (and the team) up. He didn't go with an all out rebuild last season so now if IT and Gay go, even if they get Lowry you're looking at a rebuild year next season, putting them a year behind schedule. Now if the team could get Bledsoe I think he and Cousins CAN be a foundation to build on. But as I said above, I think that's beyond unlikely to happen and Lowry is a nice player but not a building block. Again, I'm very curious to see what PDA actually does. And I'm hoping I'm not horribly disappointed.
Emulating them exactly sure, but I wouldn't have advocated for that. But once the team let Tyreke go to New Orleans I thought it was time to clear out everyone but DMC, trading guys for expiring contracts and going into tank mode.
Would they have had two top ten picks? No, but they'd have a franchise cornerstone, their first rounder from last season (whether McLemore or someone else) a likely top 3 pick and tons of caproom. I'd take that over the situation we have now.
Would they have had two top ten picks? No, but they'd have a franchise cornerstone, their first rounder from last season (whether McLemore or someone else) a likely top 3 pick and tons of caproom. I'd take that over the situation we have now.
You keep saying this, but not a dang thing has changed as it pertains to basketball.
Sure, on the outside, we're in a much better place with regards to the fact that we have a new owner and we're NOT IN SEATTLE, but that's about it. Until we start winning, no player within the NBA is going to say that "we've changed." Just look back to last season, where we were throwing excess money at players, and ended up with Landry...still the same old, same old. We need to start winning before "things will change."
How we get there is a little more chicken/egg - will winning bring better players, or will better players bring more wins? Right now, we have Cousins. Gay could opt out, and IT could leave, leaving us with only Cousins. McLemore? He's still a tradable asset, but not one that's going to light up the phones. That's not going to entice anyone of value to come over, unless for some altruistic "I want to make Sacramento a winner" sort of feel. Free agents just don't want to come here...yet, and the FO didn't realize it last year until they settled for an overpaid Landry.
I'm hopeful that they learned from the Evans mistake (and yes, IMO it was a mistake - although I'm willing to acknowledge the Maloofian error as it pertains to Evans), and going all in on someone like Gay looked like a step in that direction. Now, will they be able to keep him if he opts out? That's the sticky wicket. We can't just say, "hey, we're cool now, come play with us. Our toilets work!" We have to prove it before free agents will take a good, hard, look at us, or else we will continue to have to overpay in addition to drafting/developing our talent.
Sure, on the outside, we're in a much better place with regards to the fact that we have a new owner and we're NOT IN SEATTLE, but that's about it. Until we start winning, no player within the NBA is going to say that "we've changed." Just look back to last season, where we were throwing excess money at players, and ended up with Landry...still the same old, same old. We need to start winning before "things will change."
How we get there is a little more chicken/egg - will winning bring better players, or will better players bring more wins? Right now, we have Cousins. Gay could opt out, and IT could leave, leaving us with only Cousins. McLemore? He's still a tradable asset, but not one that's going to light up the phones. That's not going to entice anyone of value to come over, unless for some altruistic "I want to make Sacramento a winner" sort of feel. Free agents just don't want to come here...yet, and the FO didn't realize it last year until they settled for an overpaid Landry.
I'm hopeful that they learned from the Evans mistake (and yes, IMO it was a mistake - although I'm willing to acknowledge the Maloofian error as it pertains to Evans), and going all in on someone like Gay looked like a step in that direction. Now, will they be able to keep him if he opts out? That's the sticky wicket. We can't just say, "hey, we're cool now, come play with us. Our toilets work!" We have to prove it before free agents will take a good, hard, look at us, or else we will continue to have to overpay in addition to drafting/developing our talent.
Yes and no. You're right that they gave up very little, but prior to that, losing a #2 option to free agency set this team backwards, needing to pick up Gay in order to fill that #2 role. If Gay leaves, we're forced to hope that McLemore develops into that #2 option, or we have to overpay (again) to find that player during free agency, and I just don't know who's realistically available to fill that role.
If they gave up very little for Gay, and he's the 2nd option that would need replacing, why do you assume that it would require an overpayment (and not sure how it would be overpaying "again" if they didn't overpay for Gay in the first place) to replace him?
I know it seems like there's no obvious replacement, but I didn't see the Kings landing Gay for the pieces they did either. (I know Gay was mentioned a few times around here beforehand, but I don't recall anyone exactly predicting they'd get him for straight expirings). You never know what can happen.
If this sounds like I want Gay to walk, I don't. I hope he opts in and they have another full season to evaluate his fit with Cousins, all the while ensuring maximum flexibility for 2015 (when they'll actually have a good amount of space)
I know it seems like there's no obvious replacement, but I didn't see the Kings landing Gay for the pieces they did either. (I know Gay was mentioned a few times around here beforehand, but I don't recall anyone exactly predicting they'd get him for straight expirings). You never know what can happen.
If this sounds like I want Gay to walk, I don't. I hope he opts in and they have another full season to evaluate his fit with Cousins, all the while ensuring maximum flexibility for 2015 (when they'll actually have a good amount of space)
At this moment in time, I'm speaking financially. I agree that they didn't overpay in terms of what they sent over, but as far as it impacts this year's salary cap, they will have to overpay. New York, LA, Chicago; they can get fair market value for a player. Sacramento can't.
Which is true, but those sorts of moves really don't happen unless during the course of a season, specifically towards the trade deadline. We don't know anyone of Gay's level who is looking to be moved - most players of his caliber are content where they are...I suppose Deng might be in that boat, no? Anyway, I'd much rather have someone in camp. That, and we just don't have the assets that we did last year...although I didn't think we had any real assets last year anyway, so goes to show what I know.
I tend to agree with this, if only to evaluate fit for a whole year. That, and many other teams are looking to clear space for 2015 - if we're shrewd, we could be the beneficiaries of moving Gay's contract if he doesn't work out. However, if he does work out, he'll be on the short list for quite a few teams who have noticed his improved play. He's not at an all-time low in terms of value right now, but I don't think he's a wanted commodity in other places as he is here.
Which is true, but those sorts of moves really don't happen unless during the course of a season, specifically towards the trade deadline. We don't know anyone of Gay's level who is looking to be moved - most players of his caliber are content where they are...I suppose Deng might be in that boat, no? Anyway, I'd much rather have someone in camp. That, and we just don't have the assets that we did last year...although I didn't think we had any real assets last year anyway, so goes to show what I know.
I tend to agree with this, if only to evaluate fit for a whole year. That, and many other teams are looking to clear space for 2015 - if we're shrewd, we could be the beneficiaries of moving Gay's contract if he doesn't work out. However, if he does work out, he'll be on the short list for quite a few teams who have noticed his improved play. He's not at an all-time low in terms of value right now, but I don't think he's a wanted commodity in other places as he is here.
Maybe, but everyone would have been freaking out about Cousins getting frustrated if it looks like they were having a fire sale. Maybe he doesn't even sign the extension? Either way, the only move that limited the flexibility moving forward was Landry, and while I still don't agree with the signing, that's a $6.5 million dent, which is not the end of the world. I imagine if they could have traded Thompson for expirings, they would have. Gay is still likely an expiring contract, as is Williams essentially. They dealt Thornton--who was playing terribly--for nothing, allowing the rookie to start and play even more terribly. Maybe they should have traded Thomas for a pick, too, but given that many think he won't get more than $7 million or so, would a team have been willing to trade a decent pick for him?
It's also impossible to know, but I estimate Cousins was worth at least 17 or so wins on his own. That's already more than the Bucks, and unless you're running the d-league all stars out there next to him, you're already winning more than the Sixers, too. The Cavs do their lottery thing, and you're no longer looking at a top-3 pick
Finally, I do think some veneer of wanting to win games may have been important with the arena situation, too.
It's also impossible to know, but I estimate Cousins was worth at least 17 or so wins on his own. That's already more than the Bucks, and unless you're running the d-league all stars out there next to him, you're already winning more than the Sixers, too. The Cavs do their lottery thing, and you're no longer looking at a top-3 pick
Finally, I do think some veneer of wanting to win games may have been important with the arena situation, too.
I guess what I don't quite understand is how, if the Gay trade works out, that it's actually a bad thing. I agree that they had little assets last year, and yet they managed to turn nothing into something with the Gay trade--but now that becomes a bad thing? And if he plays well here next season, that's also not good? I am fully aware of the limitations of Sacramento as a market, but if the team is successful next season with Rudy as a major cog, is it too much to hope that he'd stay on to continue that success?
Of course it's good if he plays well and if Sacramento wins. If he and Cousins make Sacramento a winner, or at least, not a loser, that's a great thing. If we can sign him long term, that's even better.
That said, coming off a good season IN Sacramento may not be enough to keep him there if a bigger market comes calling. I don't know Rudy Gay's intentions - I doubt many do. He's been on record as saying he wants to try out free agency. (Can't blame him, I suppose.) He's yet to really say anything positive about Sacramento, unless I've missed it. He also hasn't said anything bad, again, unless I've missed it.
Cousins has been on record saying that he wants to turn Sacramento into a winner. No one else has. In not so many words, IT has said that it's about the money.
In the end, I'm not really sure what we're discussing anymore. I think we agree that we want Gay here. I think if he leaves it has the potential to be disastrous, as I don't see us easily filling that talent with a free agent signing.
That said, coming off a good season IN Sacramento may not be enough to keep him there if a bigger market comes calling. I don't know Rudy Gay's intentions - I doubt many do. He's been on record as saying he wants to try out free agency. (Can't blame him, I suppose.) He's yet to really say anything positive about Sacramento, unless I've missed it. He also hasn't said anything bad, again, unless I've missed it.
Cousins has been on record saying that he wants to turn Sacramento into a winner. No one else has. In not so many words, IT has said that it's about the money.
In the end, I'm not really sure what we're discussing anymore. I think we agree that we want Gay here. I think if he leaves it has the potential to be disastrous, as I don't see us easily filling that talent with a free agent signing.
On what year are we in now since the newest CBA first came to effect?
Look at Miami last season. Threepeat could have been theirs if they did not think of saving some money. That is a big change on how big market teams are building/retooling. Star players behavior are about to change too as a consequence, especially the behavior of the younger ones. They will realize not all big market teams/winning teams can afford to accommodate them as one of their main guys and at their asking price. They need to spread out if they all want a big paycheck at the same time being one of the main guys.
And former teammate Cousins slow rise to prominence - is that not big enough change in Sacramento to give us some hope of Bledsoe looking our way?
Look at Miami last season. Threepeat could have been theirs if they did not think of saving some money. That is a big change on how big market teams are building/retooling. Star players behavior are about to change too as a consequence, especially the behavior of the younger ones. They will realize not all big market teams/winning teams can afford to accommodate them as one of their main guys and at their asking price. They need to spread out if they all want a big paycheck at the same time being one of the main guys.
And former teammate Cousins slow rise to prominence - is that not big enough change in Sacramento to give us some hope of Bledsoe looking our way?
i'm waiting for the offseason to be over with before lighting my torch and heading over to sleep train with a pitchfork. the guy is a douche. i mean, he has mully as part of the scouting crew. if you looked at mully's track record of picking tweeners..we might as well go ahead and give aaron gordon a kings hat.
i thought they were going to tank after letting tyreke go. there were rumbles they let tyreke go so they could lose enough to get in position to get wiggins. obviously that failed without a backup plan. he got lucky w/ his former coworker on gay. other than that what has he done? tried to pick through the denver nuggets/GSW heap of scrubs to sign, overpaid landry, traded 2 future 2nd for mbah moute, traded for Dwill, keep IT past the deadline, took too long to cut ties w/ jimmer and trade MT.
thats what happens when you hire a analytics scrub. i don't think he can pass the eye test on talent. he will look at analytics and rely on mully for the eye test.
thats what happens when you hire a analytics scrub. i don't think he can pass the eye test on talent. he will look at analytics and rely on mully for the eye test.
Should I have added, "in Sacramento"? Not a dang thing has changed in Sacramento. The CBA doesn't matter. We're not getting Lebron to play here because we have cap space. Ditto any other #1. Wish as you might, it's still Sacramento. It's a nice town, and, as a player, you have to have the right attitude for it. Reke had it, Cousins seems to have it. Drafting and trading are ultimately still the only way to bring in top-tier talent. Retaining it then becomes another issue.
Plenty has changed in Sacramento and I can see that living on the other side of the country. The city itself doesn't have to change drastically to entice a player to come or stay. Our major issue is not the market or town, it is our tradition of losing. That is what makes players not want to come here. We have stunk it up for the better part of a decade now and stunk it up for decades before our golden era with Webber and crew. Any player with even a tiny amount of substance between his ears should be able to see that Sacramento will have something going for it very soon that not many, if any, teams will be able to claim. A brand spanking new arena, a revitalized downtown due to the new arena and the new owners, an untapped market in India (this is huge, just think of the extra money a player/team can earn having his jersey sold there on a big time scale), and an owner willing to do whatever it takes to put a winner out on the court. And then there is Cousins, arguably the best big man in the league right now and not even in his prime, waiting for partners in crime. These aren't uncertainties, all of this will happen. Another crucial aspect is all of you. The fans that saved the Kings, the loudest fans in the NBA. If I were a player, I would be asking where to sign. The problem is we have stunk for so long that we are having a hard time getting rid of the feeling and smell. You build a winner, and they will come. San Antonio isn't a huge market and yet they manage to retain most of their players and sign new ones all the time. They win. We have to start now too.