Discussion in 'Personnel moves' started by KingsFanSince85, Apr 8, 2017.
How about Zach Collins from this upcoming draft instead?? He looks like a pretty good prospect.
Has he declared yet? I like his potential, and he is someone who will likely go late first round.
Collins (Zach) is one of my favorite players in the draft. I haven't promoted him much because of how many big's are already on the team, but I think he's going to be a very good player in the NBA, if he declares. He's a very good athlate, 7 foot tall, who blocks shots, rebounds, and has shooting range all the way out to the 3 pt line. He had to come off the bench all year because of playing behind the 7'1", 300 pound Karnowski, who is a senior. That, and his tendency to get himself into foul trouble on occasion limited his minutes. But if you look at his per 40 numbers, they're outstanding.
Personally, I would take him over Markkanen. He's a better all around player than Markkanen, and in my opinion, a better athlete. My guess is that he stays in school another year. He'll start next season for Gonazga, and might work his way into being a top five pick. But you never know.
From what I have seen of Markkanen, I was not very impressed. So happy to hear other prospects thrown out there. It seemed like when Collins fouled out of the final Gonzaga derailed.
We all know its the PG and SF spots that need filling, but after the 9th pick that talent gets questionable especially since Bridges has yet to declare.
I really like Collins as a prospect. Good size, athleticism, and quickness for a C. He developed extremely well as the season progressed, and has made himself a legitimate top 10 player.
He's a solid floor-high ceiling type of player. At the very minimum, he can play above the rim, rebound, and contest shots. This doesn't even account for his soft touch, shooting stroke, or his potential 3pt shot.
He's a bit undisciplined on D, and catches the silliest fouls. Gets caught fouling even the times where he goes straight up. They aren't actual fouls, but he's so light that the offensive player jumps into him to create contact under the basket. He needs to get stronger, and he will at the next level. I think right now, he has enough lateral quickness to defend PFs, but I think he's suited to be a C at the next level.
I'm very high on him. and have him as my best C. However, it'll be difficult for me to justify drafting another C when we're loaded at that position, and we desperately need a PG and SF. But then it comes back to that idea of BPA. If you asked me if I could see Buddy as our long-term SG, I'd be able to say yes 100%. However, if you asked me if I could see WCS or Papagiannis being our franchise C, I couldn't say yes with certainty.
Don't disagee. Of course we hope that WCS and Papa become that, but no guarantee's yet. I guess the only way I would draft Collins is if every player I liked was gone, and I don't think that's possible. But what if it comes down to Collins, Monk, and Bridges. As much as I love Monk, that's a tough decision for me. I'm taking about if our 2nd first round pick is 10th. Collins is the best center in this draft and I think he can play some PF as well. He already has a very nice 18 footer, and he shot 47% from the three. Throw in 1.8 blocks per game, in only 17 minutes per game. Like I said, his per 40 numbers are outstanding.
he's a good consolation prize if he's the BPA. some team would give up assets to get him. maybe young player+future pick?
But we need to move forward, at least for a couple years with the assumption that Skal, Papa and WCS are the future of the front-court. One big reason we never got any help around Cousins is the fact that we never actually let players develop here before they got sent off. Trob? 50 games. Stauskas? 1 year. Ben? 1 year before drafting another SG with the 7th pick. D-Will? 20 games before we traded for Rudy and sent him back to the bench.
Now none of these guys turned out and they never really made a great case for more playing-time, but that shouldn't move us off course from investing real court time and years to the young guys we actually have.
While that's true, we need to spend a lot more time researching and selecting the young guys we're going to be investing that real court time in. In this regard, I think chances are Vlade will be doing a much better job than the brain trusts who picked Robinson, Stauskas or others.
Collins is worthy of going 10th. Wouldn't be a reach in my book, I couldn't complain.
The cheap fouls that were called on him in the national championship were flimsy as could be. If the refs didn't take him out of the game it's conceivable the outcome is different and he generates even more hype. He's safely in the lottery though. IIRC 9'3" standing reach is a great measurement, he's got a very nice skill level.
Hopefully some team really wants this guy and we can trade down. All of the prospects in the ten thru fifteen range play pf or c which doesn't fit our needs well. I'm thinking we trade out of pick ten.
One thing to bear in mind with drafting Stauskas is that we didn't have a ton of options to go with at that point. The best players to go after him were Payton (PG, Magic), Saric (PF, 76ers), LaVine (PG/SG, T-Wolves), Warren (SF, Suns), Harris (SG, Nuggets), Hood (SG, Jazz) and Jokic (C, Nuggets).
How many of them were talked about with our pick? I think we debated Payton on these boards, perhaps Saric as well, and LaVine. Though I can remember there being support for the Stauska pick in adding more firepower to the team, someone to push Ben, and possible sixth man duty. I'd tend to agree it was a bad pick, but I think he had been mocked to us and our alternatives were not amazing at the time - though admittedly those alternatives turned out pretty good but that's with the benefit of hindsight.
With that said, we do need to believe in our young players and invest in their development. However, we must not be frightened either if the opportunity to draft a potential upgrade presents itself even if we have an existing young player or two at that position. After all, we can always package any existing talent up for picks or other young talent.
Elfrid Payton, Zach Lavine and Rodney Hood were players that were talked about but Payton was probably the guy wanted my most who didnt like Stauskas.
Payton was a guy a lot of people wanted for sure. Wasn't that the Vonleh draft? I think a lot of people weren't expecting him to fall and thought the Kings should've grabbed him as well.
Ben was atrocious as a rookie, and after that season the Kings still had a hole at SG. There were FA options for PG and we had players at other positions. But after Bens rookie year we still needed a SG... really.
Collins is a very good prospect, and I think he will still be on the board as everyone past 6 arguably has a center solution.
I'd certainly take him over Markkanen who is really only good at one thing. Collins has a much better all around game. He's not afraid of contact and has terrific timing when blocking shots. He actually shot a better percentage from the three than Markkanen, but because of limited playing time, it's a very small sample size. I think he's capable of playing both the four and the five positions. He's not my first, second, or third choice, but he is my tenth choice, and would be the best player available at the point, if the draft goes the way it's being projected. Which it won't of course!
A couple of cheap fouls, perhaps. But he got away with some obvious ones too. So it kinda evened out. I don't believe the result was changed regardless. Honestly, I think UNC runs away with that game if the officials weren't so bad and allowed the players to play and a free flow. But that's a different topic altogether....
With regard to Collins, I think the kid might end up as a very skilled, all-around big. He's already shown a lot of potential and I really like his toughness.
Personally I'd be really disappointed if Collins was the pick at #10.
I'd rather see the Kings trade the pick.
Gonzaga dominated in the paint all year long. They played a physical game. That was their strength. The Ref's, rightly or wrongly took that away from them. So to some extent, Gonzaga was playing with one hand tied behind their back. They were forced to play North Carolina's game, and not the other way around. Don't know who would have won otherwise, but I would have liked the Ref's to be less present.
Not as disappointed as I would be if Markkanen is our pick at 10. Right now, I'm more concerned about our 5th pick. I want Fox. He is the perfect fit for this team. He's going to be a star. Kentucky players traditionally under perform while there, and then surprise once in the NBA. Cousins was a far better player once in the NBA. Booker, Bledsoe, and even Pat Patterson ended up being a much better NBA players. Calapari has a way he wants every position to play. He puts you in that position, and if you don't perform, your on the bench. Hello Skal! As a result, many players come out of that program with much more in their tool box than people realize.
I think that will happen with Fox as well. I think there's a lot more there than we've seen up to now. He has the size, the attitude, and the physical ability to be a star in the league. He is exactly what the Kings need, and they should do anything necessary to insure that he ends up in a Kings uniform. If we can land him, I really don't care who we draft at 10.
Agreed on Fox. I'm at the point of being willing to trade up with Philly to guarantee him if the cost isn't too high.
With #10 I'm hoping either for a trade up to get Isaac or Tatum (ideally Isaac IMO) or a trade back for either more picks or a pick and a player. I'd even trade the #10 for a pick in 2019 if the guys I like don't drop.
I actually like Collins a lot but while I think he'll be a very serviceable NBA big for a long time, he doesn't fill a need for the Kings who essentially have no PGs and no SFs right now.
If Portland wanted someone at #10 I wouldn't mind a trade down for #15 and #26. Justin Jackson or OG Anunoby at #15 and either Juwan Evans or Kurucs at #26 would make me a lot happier then standing pat and taking Collins or Markkanen.
If for some reason it were to come down to Collins or Markkanen, I think Markkanen would be a better pick (assuming Fox was taken at #5) because even though he's an inferior prospect (IMO) he does provide a skillset that the Kings don't really have in terms of stretch 4. A lineup with Fox, Hield, Small forward to be named later, Markkanen and Cauley-Stein would allow Fox and WCS to run the pick and roll while having three shooters on the perimeter to kick out to.
That said, I would also prefer that they don't draft Collins OR Markkanen.
It depends how you view WCS as well...
If you think Collins can be good, you might think of taking him and moving WCS while his asset value is high
Some view WCS as integral, and some need to see more from him (and that may go for our coaching staff/FO).
I feel the same way, its sort of Fox or bust with me. I hope Vlade values him as high and does everything within reason to get him. Again, I would hate to see us just give up the 10th pick to assure Fox but I would certainly see if Portland would like to move up giving us 15 and 20 for 10. We could package 5 and either of those picks to move up, while maintaining two 1st rounders.
It seems Philli is a good trade partner as they are always mentioned for Monk and can get him at 5.
With a Fox, Buddy, Bogdan, and likely Malachi guard rotation, I am kicking back and enjoying Kings basketball for the first time in a long time.
IMO a stretch 4/5 is more of finishing piece to a roster take K. Love and Minnesota for example. If we need to fill that role there are numerous other options besides using our #10. Heck we could offer P. Millsap a 4 year max and he would have to consider it. Does anyone still have the Duke's number?
The Kings have WCS, Papagiannis, and Labissiere at the 4/5. If Collins is an upgrade to any or all of them it will be a minor upgrade. And IMO Collins is good at a number of things but not great at anything. I don't think he's athletic enough to guard NBA PFs and not strong enough to guard NBA centers.
I think drafting Collins and trading WCS is a bad idea. It's taking a #7 pick with two years of experience who just seemed to be getting his game together for a #10 pick rookie.
I'm not the biggest Kevin Love fan but he was always a lot more than a stretch four. He's a very good rebounder, a good passer (especially outlet passes) and decent playing in the post. Markkanen hasn't shown any of those things. He's an elite shooter (coming off screens, off the dribble and in catch-and-shoot opportunities) and that's it.
That's why I used him an example because he's IMO the best stretch 4.
I am also not keen on Collins because he doesn't appear to be a significant upgrade on what Kings already have. Kings have WCS, Skal and Papagiannis who will figure to take most of the minutes going forward. Not to mention Kosta for the time being. I think with the 34th pick in the draft there will be a big man there who can be selected and become a rotation type of guy. This draft is loaded with big men and the league is going smaller. I suspect there will be a big man too good to ignore at pick 34 (i.e. great value) that the Kings can pick. I suspect that good guards and wings will be picked a lot earlier in the draft. Similar thing happened last year where teams got some good young big men early in the 2nd round.
I think the Kings could do with a bruiser off the bench. Someone like Quincy Acy only bigger and I think there might be a player like that worth picking at 34. I would like to see the Kings use that pick 10 and other assets to trade up to get a PG and a SF in the top 10 this year and pick up a bruiser PF/C at 34 if that pick is not used as part of the upgrade of picks.
I agree with @upinsmoke in that a specialist (or one trick pony) like Lauri seems more like a finishing piece to the puzzle. Not a great piece for early rebuild status.
Collins is a headscratcher for me. On one hand his all around game is solid. He stats from an analytical standpoint are impressive. Downfall is we don't know for sure he would be a large upgrade at a position we are well stocked (center). Unless we see him as a solid back up at the 4 I would rather look elsewhere at 10.
As for WCS, I have been adamant about being patient with him. I know some expect nothing less than to replace our former all star olympic gold winner with an equal talent at center, but that is unfair and nigh impossible.
I think when our team begins to gel around a ball moving defensive uptempo mindset, he and Skal are going to feast.
I swear if Willie showed any ability to box-out at all.... no one would even be considering Zach Collins. Even at the end of the season, he was rebounding, but he still wasn't boxing out. He just jumped harder for rebounds...
To make things worse, Skal doesn't know how to rebound either. Struggles to box out, and gets pushed easily. Papagiannis struggles the least to box out, but he's still a below-average rebounder for a C. How hard is it to box out???