Who's the real starter?

[Bricklayer]

only 3 games in I thought it might be amusing to take a look at the Who's The Starter Now? game that has been playing out in the early season. Malone has made it easy by using a nice clean 10 man rotation. So setting aside the center position, here is the position by position ridiculousness:

Power Forward
Starter(PPat): 22.0min 3.7pts (.250 .111. 000) 4.3reb 0.3ast 1.3stl 0.0blk 0.7TO
Bench(JT): 22.7min 8.3pts (.476 .000 .714) 6.7reb 1.3ast 0.0stl 1.3blk 2.7TO

Small Forward
Starter(Salmons): 24.7min 4.7pts (.227 .286 1.000) 2.0reb 2.3ast 0.3stl 0.3blk 1.0TO
Bench(Outlaw): 17.3min 7.3pts (.467 .500 1.000) 5.3reb 0.7ast 0.7stl 0.7blk 1.3TO

Shooting Guard
Starter(Thornton): 28.0min 9.3pts (.370 .308. 800) 2.3reb 0.7ast 0.3stl 0.0blk 0.0TO
Bench(McLemore): 20.0min 8.3pts (.386 .286 .250) 1.7reb 0.7ast 0.3stl 0.3blk 1.0TO

Point Guard
Starter(Vasquez): 26.7min 9.0pts (.429 .200. 889) 1.7reb 3.7ast 0.0stl 0.0blk 0.7TO
Bench(Thomas): 30.3min 19.0pts (.500 .545 .826) 3.0reb 4.7ast 0.7stl 0.0blk 2.0TO


Or to put that in units:

Starting Unit
PF: 22.0min 3.7pts (.250 .111. 000) 4.3reb 0.3ast 1.3stl 0.0blk 0.7TO
SF: 24.7min 4.7pts (.227 .286 1.000) 2.0reb 2.3ast 0.3stl 0.3blk 1.0TO
SG: 28.0min 9.3pts (.370 .308. 800) 2.3reb 0.7ast 0.3stl 0.0blk 0.0TO
PG: 26.7min 9.0pts (.429 .200. 889) 1.7reb 3.7ast 0.0stl 0.0blk 0.7TO

Bench Unit
PF: 22.7min 8.3pts (.476 .000 .714) 6.7reb 1.3ast 0.0stl 1.3blk 2.7TO
SF: 17.3min 7.3pts (.467 .500 1.000) 5.3reb 0.7ast 0.7stl 0.7blk 1.3TO
SG: 20.0min 8.3pts (.386 .286 .250) 1.7reb 0.7ast 0.3stl 0.3blk 1.0TO
PG: 30.3min 19.0pts (.500 .545 .826) 3.0reb 4.7ast 0.7stl 0.0blk 2.0TO


The only position where it hasn't been a total and complete blowout is SG, where basically neither guy has looked like a starter. The forward positoons look like clear flip flops. And the PG position is only justifiable by playing style/role.

 

[KingMilz]

Those shooting % are really hard to look at

 

[Sac.Kings]

Those shooting % are really hard to look at

Some of them look like batting averages

 

[The_Jamal]

Good news is that I don't think it is possible for us to shoot worse than we have. Holy crap

 

[pshn80]

Interesting and weird. I wonder who will break out of it first. I see Malone having everyone keep on shooting. What choice does he have? The two most out of line for them are Paterson and Thomas. Salmons is way off but not shooting too much. Thornton's missing is not as unusual as his not shooting. He is not in his normal sinc (thank heavens). Outlaw is the closest thing to being himself. Same with Thompson. Who's going to bust out first? Hopefully more than one.

You could consider starting group two but what would it get you. Keep on shooting and relax.

 

[upinsmoke]

M16 & Cuz at the 4. everyone else should be waited out until their contract expires or traded for expiring deals (JT @ Hayes). IT would be fantastic off the bench as that spark plug most of us know he can be. This summer Vasquez, Patterson, Salmons and Jimmer all expire and the season after that Hayes, MT and Outlaw fall off the books so rebuild should be in full effect.

 

[Dreadnought]

Some of them look like batting averages

It's funny because some batting averages are better than these shooting percentages.

 

[dude12]

The amazing thing is that we won 1 game, had a chance deep into game 2 before the lack of makes caught up in game 3.

 

[Kingsfan23]

I, and I believe coach MAlone were against Ben starting so early in his career, but that wasn't taking into account how terrible Thornton is now.. I haven't been super high on Ben's form either but if Thornton continues his pace you have to throw the future into the starting lineup in Ben soon. SF, I think a lot of us are looking for Luc or some other option to save us from Salmons.. Outlaw strikes me as a energy guy who isn't starting quality but we will see... As for the pf position, I have been astounded by PPat's bad play.. If it continues go with a Landry/JT or JT/Landry rotation when Carl comes back

 

[cuad]

Missing some telling stats.

Outlaw: 23 PER, 62 TS%, 28 DRB%
Salmons: 6.6 PER, 30 TS%, 10 DRB %

JT: 37.5 FG% allowed at the rim, 51 TS%
PPat: 71 FG% allowed at the rim, 27 TS%

Vasquez: 13 PER
Jimmer: 44 PER =)

 

[Hoovtrain]

Jimmer should start at every position as well as relieving Malone of his coaching duties. Boom!championship

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Jimmer should start at every position as well as relieving Malone of his coaching duties. Boom!championship

Who would have thought that Jimmer would find himself (innocently), in a Chuck Norris joke situation?

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Problem is we only have 2 real starters (GV & Cuz) and the rest of the players don't belong in the starting lineup of any NBA team. with McLemore being the only one with a pass because of his youth and inexperience

 

[Entity]

What's going to happen is we are about to see a lot more 3 guard lineups. The SF position is so bad right now that playing a sg there periodically doesn't hurt you as bad. It's awful and needs to be addressed quickly

 

[Dime Dropper]

Who would have thought that Jimmer would find himself (innocently), in a Chuck Norris joke situation?

Who says it's a joke? Seriously, put Jimmer in at C. His rebounding and shot-blocking prowess is historic. Let him rotate to the other positions depending on who has the ball. Playing anyone else at any position is a waste of time. The only reason Jimmer doesn't play is because it would destroy the NBA, no other team would have a chance. No other team would even make the playoffs. It'd be a disaster for Stern in his final year.

 

[Npliam]

The sample size is too small to draw any conclusions.

 

[The_Jamal]

The sample size is too small to draw any conclusions.

Not for Salmons. We're on Year 3 of his quest to a go live out his days in a retirement home. He can't shoot, he can't rebound, he doesn't play defense, he brings no energy or hustle to the team, he has no athleticism. Outlaw may not be any better, but at least his size, athleticism, and him actually giving visible effort can lead him to running into a good game once in awhile. Like last night. With Mbah getting healthy, I might actually flirt with starting him at PF over Ppat and then starting Outlaw.

 

[KingMilz]

Against the Hawks we should be able to start #M16 @SF the Hawks got DeMar Carroll who is a defensive specialist and can't shoot nor does he look to post up or score. May as well have more offense on the floor if we can't really be hurt the other way.

They Hawk also use alot of the two PG combo (Teague + German Rondo) along with Korver so again I don't see Ben Mac being physically challenged there niether playing at the 3.

 

[Kingsfan23]

Against the Hawks we should be able to start #M16 @SF the Hawks got DeMar Carroll who is a defensive specialist and can't shoot nor does he look to post up or score. May as well have more offense on the floor if we can't really be hurt the other way.

They Hawk also use alot of the two PG combo (Teague + German Rondo) along with Korver so again I don't see Ben Mac being physically challenged there niether playing at the 3.

I don't see Malone dictating the starting lineup on a gamely basis, but yeah I am getting close to wanting to see Ben in that starting lineup

 

[Npliam]

Not for Salmons. We're on Year 3 of his quest to a go live out his days in a retirement home. He can't shoot, he can't rebound, he doesn't play defense, he brings no energy or hustle to the team, he has no athleticism. Outlaw may not be any better, but at least his size, athleticism, and him actually giving visible effort can lead him to running into a good game once in awhile. Like last night. With Mbah getting healthy, I might actually flirt with starting him at PF over Ppat and then starting Outlaw.

Salmons played pretty well last year.

 

[VF21]

Against the Hawks we should be able to start #M16 @SF the Hawks got DeMar Carroll who is a defensive specialist and can't shoot nor does he look to post up or score. May as well have more offense on the floor if we can't really be hurt the other way.

They Hawk also use alot of the two PG combo (Teague + German Rondo) along with Korver so again I don't see Ben Mac being physically challenged there niether playing at the 3.

I refuse to believe that Malone is going to start Ben at the 3. I renew my concerns and objections to the notion that it's somehow good for a player's development to play him out of his normal position.

 

[KingMilz]

I refuse to believe that Malone is going to start Ben at the 3. I renew my concerns and objections to the notion that it's somehow good for a player's development to play him out of his normal position.

Are the two and three really that different from a offensive point of view? I understand from a defense point of view but if the other team has no one to take advantage of Ben what's the difference? Ben is still going to play the same running off screens and providing floor spacing I don't get why everyone gets all up in arms about it. We are not asking Ben to do anything he's not capable of or that does not suit his skillset starting him against Atlanta.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I refuse to believe that Malone is going to start Ben at the 3. I renew my concerns and objections to the notion that it's somehow good for a player's development to play him out of his normal position.

I'd be shocked if he did. However, he may start Salmons at gaurd, when Moute is ready to play full minutes. I know everyone is really down on John, but we would improve on defense with him at gaurd..and again, it could give Cousins more looks

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Are the two and three really that different from a offensive point of view? I understand from a defense point of view but if the other team has no one to take advantage of Ben what's the difference? Ben is still going to play the same running off screens and providing floor spacing I don't get why everyone gets all up in arms about it. We are not asking Ben to do anything he's not capable of or that does not suit his skillset starting him against Atlanta.

There's plenty of teams that will have someone to take advantage of him and I don't think Malone wants to be flip flopping the starting lineup much

 

[The_Jamal]

Salmons played pretty well last year.

No. Not at all. I could probably write a 10 page paper full of statistical support on how bad he was the last 2 years. The guy is simply one of the worst starters in the league and certainly one of the worst players who gets 25+ MPG in the league. Perhaps he could gain some value back if he came off the bench in a 10-15 min role, but he's been one of the most harmful players on the floor (statistically).

 

[KingMilz]

I'd be shocked if he did. However, he may start Salmons at gaurd, when Moute is ready to play full minutes. I know everyone is really down on John, but we would improve on defense with him at gaurd..and again, it could give Cousins more looks

Salmons and Luke would mean teams could even more easily pack the paint on Cousins as he watches both brick shot after shot and get frustrated.

 

[KingMilz]

There's plenty of teams that will have someone to take advantage of him and I don't think Malone wants to be flip flopping the starting lineup much

The Hawks don't so why not play to our strengths? The more floor spacing/athletic ability we have the better for everyone. It's harder to double Cousins and if you do he literally have 4 viable options to give it to.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Salmons and Luke would mean teams could even more easily pack the paint on Cousins as he watches both brick shot after shot and get frustrated.

It's a good point, but we are going to have to give up something to have a chance to gain anything. I was thinking defense first. They won a game with a 90 point total, lets see if they can win one in the 80's

 

[The_Jamal]

The Hawks don't so why not play to our strengths? The more floor spacing/athletic ability we have the better for everyone. It's harder to double Cousins and if you do he literally have 4 viable options to give it to.

Because of that whole "player development" thing. Ben McLemore is a SG in the purest sense of the term. We want him learning how to play the position. To get some exposure defending SG's around the league. To improve his ball-handling against quicker defenders at the SG.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

The Hawks don't so why not play to our strengths? The more floor spacing/athletic ability we have the better for everyone. It's harder to double Cousins and if you do he literally have 4 viable options to give it to.

It's a mental thing and our coach knows it. It's very likely that he will do what you're suggesting with playing time, which is what really matters anyway for each game. But in the overall scheme, he knows who starts has an effect mentally. Some more than others. Jason Thompson being one who it wouldn't matter. Thornton probably being the opposite and i'm wondering if Patterson is better mentally off the bench