Who do we draft?

Discussion in 'Personnel moves' started by Folsomkingsfan, Mar 7, 2017.

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  1. Jimbob

    Jimbob Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I dont get the loopsided win against the Mavs who should be competing for the 8th seed. Philli also got rid of some talent at the deadline but they are playing better?

    The Pelicans are starting to win, which is good as its decreasing their chances of a top 3 pick but unfortunately lowering our pick from them. New Yorks two recent loses to the Nets, come on.

    I enjoy our youth movement but want this season over.
    Kingsfan23 likes this.
  2. Čarolija

    Čarolija Well-Known Member

    In an ideal world you would like the two best players available at King's picks would be a PG and a SF. The team needs to go best available in the lottery especially. History is littered with cases where teams went for needs and overlooked franchise level talent as a result.
  3. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    I think PG Dennis Smith Jr should be our real target. If we can draft him, then our franchise would legitimately be set for the next 10 years. I see him as a very dynamic PG who can do a little bit of everything. Very athletic and explosive. Can shoot, score, and pass.

    I would pair him up with SF Miles Bridges. Bridges is an athletic SF with high IQ. He can do a bit of everything just like DSJ... I really don't know why people don't have him higher. He can handle the ball, shoot, attack, defend, and rebound. Kid has amazing talents. He dropped 18pts last night:

    So if we're able to draft DSJ(all around PG) and Bridges (all around SF), then I think we could be very good moving forward. DSJ-Hield/Richardson-Bridges-Skal would be an elite young core.
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  4. miltonap

    miltonap Well-Known Member

    Dennis Smith kind of reminds me of a slightly toned down Westbrook maybe with a better shot. He looks pretty fearless on the court
  5. funkykingston

    funkykingston Well-Known Member

    I like Bridges more than most mocks right now. And anybody that's a plus rebounder for their position is a good thing considering our presumed center of the future (WCS) is weak on the boards. I also think Bridges is underrrated as a passer. Can he be a star? I don't know. His wing skills are still a work in progress. But I think he'll be a solid role player at the least and good for a young, uptempo team with a focus on defense.

    Smith Jr and Markannen are my least favorite prospects of the top 10 or 12 consensus guys. I like both of them, but I have concerns. With Smith Jr I just see too many shades of Steve Francis. He's a very good athlete but he's not a dominant one like Westbrook or an uber quick/fast guy like Wall and he has less than ideal size, especially in terms of wingspan.

    My hope (assuming the Pelicans don't jump to the top 3 or go on a 12 game win streak to finish the season and that the Kings don't beat the odds to end up with the 2nd or 3rd pick) is that Vlade comes away with a PG and a SF. My preferences are Ntilinka followed by Fox and Tatum followed by Isaac. But if it ends up being Smith Jr and Bridges that's not a bad consolation prize IMO.
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  6. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    I'm personally really high on Bridges. My biggest concern about his game is his inability to draw contact around the rim. He finishes really soft, more like a PG/SG. He relies more on finesse and touch.
    Yeah, I was thinking Bridges' great rebounding could definitely compensate for Skal and Willie. He knows how to box out well. I think Bridges is an underrated playmaker in general. At MSU, they've been playing him more off-ball, so he doesn't get many chances to display his passing ability. When he does get to handle the ball, he flashes potential of something special.
    I agree with you on that too. I think Bridges has a solid floor with a high ceiling. Even if he doesn't end up developing his skills further, at the very least, he still gives you: high energy, 3pt shooting, rebounding, and solid D. This isn't accounting for other skill sets he's shown due to his IQ and ball handling.

    With DSJ, there is some concern with attitude and motor. I think Steve Francis would still be a solid comp. If you can get his head right, he can become the best PG of this class. With playing style, I do see some CP3 in him.

    With Ntilikina, I'm skeptical of him a little bit. I think he's the most raw PG out of this class, and he reminds me a little bit too much of Exum. Exum was more quicker, but Ntilikina is the better shooter. My concern with Ntilikina is that I'm not sure how much he'll be able to develop his PG skills. Currently, his ball handling isn't good enough to run full point yet. Since he's been playing mostly SG, it's also hard to get a good idea about his facilitating/playmaking abilities . Does he have a PG's mindset? Can he recognize a play before it happens, then immediately create it? Does he have PG skills?
    I know Exum =/= Ntilikina, but Exum's unnatural feel as a playmaker has halted his development as a PG, and made him a SG for now. It's a similar situation that Ntilikina could be facing. Doesn't help that he's been played as a SG this year.
    Another uneasy feeling also comes from the Kings' inability to develop players. However, with seeing how raw players like Skal, Richardson, and Papagiannis have been able to develop under Larry Lewis does give me some hope with our player development moving forward.

    I think Ntilikina has a solid floor of a 3&D SG. I'm just not sure if he could be an answer for franchise PG. If we draft him, I'd have no problem with it. I think he has a super high potential. However, if we were to pick between DSJ and Ntilikina, I'd go with DSJ.
  7. funkykingston

    funkykingston Well-Known Member

    Physically, CP3 is a decent comp for DSJ. Both are somewhat small without big wingspans but are compactly built with good explosiveness. But Paul was a significantly better shooter (more than 10% better both from three and from the stripe) and most importantly even in college he showed that he saw the game better than almost anyone else. But DSJ doesn't have to become Chris Paul to be a good pick. He just needs to improve defensively, improve his shot and get more polished/efficient running a team, cutting down on mistakes.

    What I like about Ntilinka is that he is ideal for an aggressive, switching defense and he has enough potential as a playmaker and lead guard for me to feel comfortable gambling on him. He looks more natural with the ball than Exum to me and his shot is better. I DO think he'll have the longest learning curve though. Not that their games are all that similar but I look at Giannis as the type of career arc you'd hope for with him.

    I like Fox a lot too. His shot concerns me but it's looked better lately and he has nice tools. I'd take any of the top five PGs in this draft and be happy and if he's there in the 2nd
    I'd take the 6th best one (Evans) too.
  8. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    I've seen games where Smith basically played no defense at all. Now I grant you, that if I was on a bad team, it might be easy to throw in the towel at times. But you see, that's one of my problems with him. I want self motivated players. I want a player that gives a 100% all the time, regardless of his team, or the won lost record, and I don't see that in Smith. No one deny's his talent. Is he just biding his time until he gets to the NBA and then he suddenly turns into the player we all want to see? I have no idea, but I'm not willing to gamble on a player that might, should, could be good, when I can draft a player that I feel will be good.

    I would take Ntilikina ten times out of ten over Smith. And if Smith ends up being the better player, I can live with it. As an aside, Smith doesn't come close to comparing to Paul. Lastly, I think Bridges has worked himself into the conversation. I'm going to be very interested in his measurements at the combine. He's an outstanding rebounder for the position, and his outside shot has improved from the beginning of the season. Plus, he's a terrific athlete who plays hard. Something Smith doesn't always do.
  9. funkykingston

    funkykingston Well-Known Member

    Baja, you've come around to my side!

    Smith Jr has always worried me. Just like Ben Simmons last year - if you're the best player on your team AND the primary ball handler/playmaker why is your team so bad and why do you seem disinterested at times?

    And I have more confidence in Ntilinka's defense translating than DSJ's offense.

    As I said, I'd love to see the Kings end up with a PG (Fultz, Ball, Ntilinka, Fox, Smith is how I have them ranked with Fox and Ntilikina very close right now) and a SF from this draft. I'm torn on Tatum and Isaac with Bridges a definite 3rd but I wouldn't be unhappy with him. I like his effort level and progression this season.
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  10. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Well my change toward Smith is his fault. He started out the year playing like an all star, but as the year went on, his overall game started to decline, and my opinion started to change as well. So my order is exactly like yours right now. Tatum has made a believer out of me. His passing has improved along with his ability to play off the ball, which was a big concern for me. I don't like ball stoppers. Isaac may have a little higher ceiling overall than Tatum, but there are no guarantee's of that, so I'm going on what I see right now. I think both of them are going to be good players. But I think Tatum is more ready to step in and play right now.

    All that said, Bridges has been an impact player for Michigan St the last third of the season and into the conference tournament. Hard to ignore him. He doesn't have the size of the other two guys, but so far, it doesn't seem to matter. I think if Ntilikina comes over an impresses in his workouts, he'll probably move up a few draft boards. Hopefully he has a good workout for the Kings and Vlade falls in love with him.
  11. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    Johnathan Issac is your answer he fits like a glove here. At his hieght and length and love for defense he will be a plus defender and able to switch 2-5 position. We are leaning towards ball movement and he fits that bill too as he's unselfish and has a good basketball IQ.

    If we walk out with Issac/Fox that's an A from me
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  12. funkykingston

    funkykingston Well-Known Member

    The move toward a more ball movement oriented offense also favors Ntilikina. He wouldn't have the pressure of being a primary playmaker and could play on and off the ball while he learns the NBA game.
    biltalent likes this.
  13. Čarolija

    Čarolija Well-Known Member

    The team is moving into that type of offense because there is no #1 option on this team that will draw double or triple teams and create for himself and others. There is no one who you can go to when you need a bucket. Its all well and good to talk ball movement but talent wins. When the Spurs need a bucket they go to the Klaw or LMA. If Warriors need to score they go to Curry, KD or Thompson. If Cavs need a bucket its LeBron, Kyrie or Love.

    Once this team gets their go to player or players, it will continue to preach ball movement. Now that doesn't mean that once you get those players you don't move the ball but it means your offense is more geared around those players. That is just how things are.

    If Kings get a couple of players capable of being the go to guys, the offense will be geared around their talent. I think Kings priority needs to be finding those go to players in this draft.
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  14. Folsomkingsfan

    Folsomkingsfan Active Member

    My favorite pg in the draft. His size is elite for a point guard and he seems to have a pass first mentality. I've only seen one of his games and everything else is based off of highlights, but he seems like the guy who wants to get everyone involved, but doesn't just chase assists like Rondo did. Smith and Fox are probably the safer picks but Frank has such an insane upside that he would be my guy. Especially since the pressure is off somewhat in terms of hitting a jackpot on the pick since Skal, Malachi, Hield, WCS, and Papa G all look like legit NBA players.
  15. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    I watched Tatum closely today in a taped game against Virginia (prior to NCAA). Didn't see what the hype was all about. Announcer said he was a Paul Pierce kind of guy, but having seen Pierce play in college I can tell you that Tatum is nowhere near where Pierce was in terms of fluidity and quickness. He does have a good jab step for his outside shot, but otherwise I was not impressed. Will keep watching to see if he lives up to the hype.
  16. Čarolija

    Čarolija Well-Known Member

    The pressure is off?

    Errr NO!!!!! The pressure will be on until Kings don't get a franchise level talent in the draft. The red haired PR mouthpiece keeps pointing out that this is the best draft since 2003 that delivered multiple hall of famers. If that is so, then the pressure is well and truly on the Kings to walk away with at least one genuine franchise level player from this draft, especially if they get two top 10 picks as appears to be the case at this stage.

    So I STRONGLY disagree that the pressure is off! The pressure is well and truly on, especially since Vlade gave himself 2 years.
  17. Glenn

    Glenn Well-Known Member Contributor

    Bingo!! You and I are on the same page. I presume that the franchise player will be a pg but we desperately need him now because he will not be available later for a variety of reasons. We cannot depend on the future. The future is now. I agree with you 100% I don't know how you came to this conclusion and I have not followed the discussion.
  18. Sactown ExPat

    Sactown ExPat Member

    If things hold, and we end up with the #6 and #8, who do you take first at #6? Assume the current DX mock, the top 5 of which seems pretty solid (Fultz, Ball, Tatum, Jackson, Fox). Ntilikina might be able to leap Fox, but otherwise it seems set.

    At #6 I would take Monk because he is my BPA, I think NY would take him if I passed, and that he can convert to PG. I also have a theory that we're loosely targeting a playmaking forward system down the road, assuming we can find the right player, but that's just a theory. Meaning, a traditional PG is not necessary. He will have playmaking responsibility, but could be off-ball a lot.

    I am comfortable with either Markkanen or Isaac at #8, whichever one is left on the board. Or even Bridges. I think all those guys have tantalizing strengths and worrisome weaknesses, with more or less equal shots of becoming star level players. I am fine with NY helping make that decision for me, but I think they grab Ntilikina.

    Smith is not on my board at all; not my type of player.
  19. Folsomkingsfan

    Folsomkingsfan Active Member

    True. I definitely worded that terribly. You're definitely right. What I guess I meant to say was that, at the very least, Skal, Malachi, WCS, Hield, and Papa G, all seem like they will be productive NBA caliber players at some point. Granted, it's been in a small sample size, but they've all shown something at one point or another. Vlade could play it safe and draft another guy who is a safe bet to be a productive NBA player or he could roll the dice on a guy who is more raw, but with a higher ceiling. If none of our young guys had shown any promise this year and our year ended with a dud then I think the majority of us would be demanding that he make the safe pick like DeAaron Fox. Since our young guys have shown more than most of us imagined they would I'd guess that if he were to take a guy who is more raw, but with a higher ceiling, like Frank Ntilikina, a lot less people would be upset about it. This doesn't mean that if we got the 8th pick and he took Ivan Rabb I'd be ok with it. But if he wanted to take a guy like Miles Bridges, who is ranked typically 14th-16th, over Andrea Bargnani 2.0 Lauri Markannen, who is ranked 9th-11th, then that's fine. It all depends on what you think the team needs and who you like in the draft.
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  20. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    Tonight is a big game in New Orleans vs Wolves with two teams wallowing at 28 wins....going nowhere! You have the three best bigs in the league (Towns Brow Boogie) which is kind of fun and there is the chance to push Pelicans down into that 8th worst record with a Wolves win. Go Wolves!

    This is where I'd like us to be by seasons end. 6th worst record for us and 8th worst record for NOP. With 8th worst record there is a 90% chance we get that pick. I like those odds! There is a 72% chance we get the 8th pick and 18% chance we get the 9th pick. That's a good place for us to be. Low odds the Pelicans move Top 3 but still a Top 8 pick.

    Then we will be looking at the 6th pick and 8th pick and we will get our future PG and SF all-stars! :) I would like to get Tatun or Jackson as our SF but if we have to settle for Jonathan Isaac thats a pretty good consolation prize! I would love us to get Frank Ntlikina too at PG. He has incredible length and skill set. We already have pretty length and size with Skal, Willie, Papa and Malachi.

    I think we should be targeting complementary guys to this mix so we can swarm defensively and run and smother the opposition. For this reason I eliminate Monk and Smith from guys we want to target because they don't fit this vision. Fox has great length too but I am not sure he would have the physicality to be a great defender. I project Ntlikina as the better defender.

    Mock Draft:
    • Fultz
    • Ball
    • Jackson
    • Tatum
    • Isaac or Lauri (Kings pick)
    • Smith
    • Ntlikina or Fox (Kings via NOP)
    Malik Monk still on board too. Look at this embarrassment of riches! This is why we need the 6th and 8th pick so we are getting the best opportunity for future stars not settling for leftovers at the 9th and 12th pick. Of course there is scenario where the guy we want slips but I would rather us not to have rely on luck. I am more confident in our ability to nab the best prospects with the play of Skal and Malachi.....not to mention walking double / double Papa G. :)
  21. Warhawk

    Warhawk The cake is a lie. Staff Member Contributor

    These are not mutually exclusive. When you go from fighting for a playoff spot to having one of the least talented teams in the league, yes, your year is ending with a dud. I expect players to be developed and improve no matter if we are winning or losing. I am also tired of over a decade of futility and was really looking forward to some post-season action for my team.
  22. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    First, I think were moving toward that type of offense because that's the type of offense Vlade envisions and it's also the type of offense that Joerger stated he liked. That said, even with that type of offense, you still need players on your team that can go get you a basket when you need it. I don't think it's an either/or situation, unless the go to player is a ball stopper in normal play. As for the Kings not having one right now, well, we don't know that for sure do we?

    It's possible that one of our young guys turns into what your describiing. Skal as shown the ability to isolate and score, and so has Heild. Both are a long way off from being dependable in that area, but in a year or two, who knows? It's also possible we get one of those players in the coming draft. Personally, I like ball movement and player movement, and if you look at all the top teams, most of them play that way. In a share the ball system the cream will always rise to the top.
  23. roasthawg

    roasthawg Well-Known Member

    Nice post, I agree with this word for word.... Especially about the part about Skal and Buddy. Those are two guys who might possibly have the ability of developing into #1 options.
  24. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Tune in to watch Kansas vs. Michigan St. The match up is Josh Jackson vs. Miles Bridges
  25. Khanh

    Khanh New Member

    Miles Bridges played hard tonight especially against Josh Jackson. The only thing I fear about Miles Bridges is that he is seen as a tweener between the forward positions and we see our fair share of those on the kings roster (derrick williams)
  26. Khanh

    Khanh New Member

    In an ideal world with the way the kings have been playing with the amount of ball movement that's been happening, lonzo ball and Isaac would be perfect fit for our roster and would be a nightmare to opposing teams with the amount of length we have
  27. funkykingston

    funkykingston Well-Known Member

    Bridges has some tweener concerns but they are very different than Derrick Williams. Williams was an offensive machine who could bully smaller defenders and go around bigger ones or hit the outside shot at a high clip if given space. The questions with Williams were (1) what position could he defend as he wasn't quick laterally and was a bit undersized to bang with PFs all the time and (2) effort level, especially on defense and in terms of rebounding.

    Bridges has (IMO) no issues with effort level. He plays hard on both ends and is a good defender and he's a very good rebounder.

    Derrick Williams had superstar potential coming out. I don't see that for Bridges. But I think he can be a very high level role player and (if he continues to work on his outside shot and develops his handles and some semblance of a midrange game) he could be more. Based on how he's continued to improve as a senior in HS and as a college freshman I think he'll put in the work to maximize his talent.
  28. Kingster

    Kingster Well-Known Member

    Bridges and Tatum seem similar to me - bulky 3s with little fluidity to their game. I'm not real high on either one them. Tatum isn't a very good rebounder. They both remind me of Shane Battier (or Derrick Williams, funky). Ball and Jackson just jump out of TV with their talent and we've got virtually no shot at either one of them.
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  29. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    Watched Josh Jackson twice........oh my. Really good.
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  30. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Disagree with you. Bridges and Tatum are not similar players. Tatum is more talented on offense, and he's more of an iso post scorer. Tatum is probably around 6'8 or 6'9 at 210lbs. He's only an average athlete, comparable to 30yearold Rudy(Rudy was very athletic when he was young). He's actually a really good rebounder too. Last night was not his best game though. He can handle the ball comfortably.

    Bridges is more of a 3pt shooter and attacker. He's only 6'7, and weighs somewhere around 225lbs. Very good athlete and explosive, but has average lat quickness. Very good rebounder, and he can also handle the ball.

    They're not similar at all imo. 2 very very different players.
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